The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: jolebole on April 05, 2016, 10:10:10 AM
-
Hello everyone,
I recently got a P-07 and I'm very happy how it performs. I shot some FMJ and some coated lead bullets (SNS) and I noticed I had some lead residue after shooting 100 coated bullets through it. Has anyone else seen this? I shoot thousands od SNS coated bullets through my SP-01 Shadow and I have no leading at all. Why is this? Different rifling type?
Thanks
-
I also use SNS coated bullets and have been since they started coating. I got away from the wax ringed lead as soon as I could. I have not noticed any leading in any of my hand guns. What powder and grain load might you be using?
-
I also use SNS coated bullets and have been since they started coating. I got away from the wax ringed lead as soon as I could. I have not noticed any leading in any of my hand guns. What powder and grain load might you be using?
I'm using V-N320 with 124gn SNS
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
-
I'm not familiar with this particular powder or it's burn rate. Is it possible you could try some other powder, Bullseye, Unique, Win 231, and compare results?
-
I'm not familiar with this particular powder or it's burn rate. Is it possible you could try some other powder, Bullseye, Unique, Win 231, and compare results?
Vihtavouri N320 is the cleanest burning pistol powder out there. I do have some other powders..I'll try and see what happens. The leading was not much, 30min in strong solvent and a brass brush took care of it. Balistol and G96 could not.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
-
It's not that the powder is dirty but more the rate of burn. If its a very fast burning powder could it be too hot for the amount you are using for your load? Leading is normally caused by the powder actually melting some of the projectile before leaving the barrel.
-
I've not (yet) had a leading issue in my 9MM or .40 S&W P0X guns. In fact, the barrels seem to clean up so fast/easy and are so shiny/smooth looking that I've wondered (asked, too) if CZ does some kind of special polish on them as part of the manufacturing process. Compared to the other pistols I have, well, there is no comparison. Smooth and shiny.
And I've shot mostly uncoated lead bullets. I only recently bought some of the coated bullets.
What type solvent do you use? Mostly, over the years, I've used Hoppe's #9. A couple years back my son had a terrible leading issue with his AR15 and the .22 rimfire bullets he was running through his .22 conversion kit (Federal ammo that was plated/jacketed and it still almost filled the grooves up with lead). I bought some of that Remington bore cleaner that is supposedly for shotguns that is even supposed to remove the plastic residue from the shot cups that can build up on the inside of the shotgun barrel (don't know that I've seen that myself, but you don't shoot that much at one time small game/bird hunting.) I'm still using that up if I see a barrel that looks dirtier than normal.
Good luck with it. I agree the idea is to identify the reason for leading and fix that first.
-
It isn't the powder. Have you pulled a bullet to see if you are cutting the coating? Can you post a pic of the leading?
-
Whoa, friend !! We need a LOT more information.
? We assume your P-07 is in 9mm, because the P-07 also comes in 40S&W. Please confirm.
? We need your complete load data, which should include your OAL.
? We need any chrono data you have.
N320 is a hotter powder, that's one reason it burns so clean. N330 is the "standard speed" powder for 9mm. But, like the others, I'm not convinced it has anything to do with the powder. That's why I think it's the load.
Please answer all 3 questions. Thanks.
;)
-
Listen to Idescribe and wobby
Your powder is fine the issue is most likely a sizing issue or a coating issue.
-
Have you made any changes to process? Adjusted dies. Have you confirmed the exact same batch that lead P-07 do not lead SP-01? Are you using an FCD?
-
The only way I can see you leading your barrel with a coated bullet is if somehow you are scraping the bullet while seating it. Either you need to increase the flare or the bullet is seated a bit crooked. Either way you may be scraping the coating off the bullet.
Just a thought.
-
If he is using an FCD and swaging the bullet, it could be jumping lands, and that will tear up the bullet.
-
Leading.
1) what is the groove diameter of the barrel and what diameter are the bullets? (9x19 can range from 0.355-0.359" in groove diameter. Lead bullets must be at least 0.001" over groove diameter.
2) where is the leading?
A clue to what is causing the leading is where the leading first begins to appear.
If it appears near the chamber, chances are that bullet diameter or hardness are the cause. A diameter too small or an alloy too hard will allow high pressure gas to leak past the bullet, which erodes the bullet and leaves leading near the chamber. If you buy commercial bullets, the alloy is TOO HARD. You only need 10-12 BHN and the softest alloy commercially used is about 15, with 18-22 BHN being normal.
If the leading first appears on the leading edge of the rifling (if you imagine the bullet being pushed through the barrel, you will note that one edge of the rifling does most of the work of imparting a spin to the bullet. This is the edge you see when you look through the barrel from the breech end), the bullet might be too soft or the velocity too high.
If the leading appears in the second (front) half of the barrel, the bullet is running out of lube.
I use 0.357-0.358" lead bullets almost exclusively, and 0.356-0.357" jacketed bullets.
At current prices, I find Precision Delta to have the best price/performance if you order 2000 or more.
For bullets in your possession, get some Lee Liquid Alox (or Xlox or 45/45/10 from White Labs) and lightly tumble lube the bullets to eliminate all/most leading.
-
A quality CZ handgun of recent manufacture can vary that much in barrel groove diameter? Color me..... disillusioned. I would have thought, for as accurate as they are, they'd have been held to tighter specs. than that.
-
He was just talking 9mm's in general most cz come in at .3555
-
A quality CZ handgun of recent manufacture can vary that much in barrel groove diameter? Color me..... disillusioned.
Take three deep breaths.
Noylj is talking about 9mm barrels in general, not CZ in specific. I agree with TC, most modern 9mm are tightly toleranced. But way back in the 1970/80's when no one cared about 9x19, and you could count all the 9mmm guns on one hand, the barrels were all over the place.
-
Yes. it's a 9mm P07. I'm using 4.3gn of N320 behind 124gn SNS. OAL is 1.115 (because cz chamber).My power factor is 133. Which is about 1070fps. I shoot this load tru all my 9mm guns. STI, CZ, Glock. I'm loading on Hornady LnL with Lee dies and FCD at the end with super light crimp. Here's the round
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/b4e6d426d90f306c05f17d37324fe33f.jpg)
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
-
I agree with ID.
If you're experiencing leading with coated bullets stop using the FCD.
It's resizing the bullet causing your issue.
-
Have you double checked your COAL? You stated that you are currently loading to 1.115 in length. I have an 07 & 09 and can't load that long. With the .015 backset, 1.100 is safe for me. Just wondering?
-
I usualy loaded 1.145 with copper plated or fmjs , but due to the shape of the SNS I dropped to 1.115 for safe chambering in the CZ. I consider 1.115 short:)
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
-
I usually loaded 1.145 with copper plated or FMJs , but due to the shape of the SNS I dropped to 1.115 for safe clambering in the CZ. I consider 1.115 short :)
And how were these lengths derived? Have you bothered to read the stickies and determine your max OAL for these bullets in a CZ?
I'm loading on Hornady LnL with Lee dies and FCD at the end with super light crimp.
What the heck is a "super light crimp" ? This infers that you are changing the crimp for different loads or ammo. Explain please.
I'm with Painter. Ditch the FCD immediately.
;)