The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => Compact CZ 75s => Topic started by: Scarlett Pistol on May 11, 2016, 12:35:30 AM
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So I started noticing rounds sticking when I slowly closed the slide on my Compact 75 9mm with my self defense rounds. I have to push against the back of the extractor now to get them to feed. Everything is cleaned and polished. And it never had a problem feeding during live fire since this started a little bit ago. Then I noticed a little bit of wear in my slide, and it became much more pronounced this weekend! Is this chipping caused from the additional force when the rounds get stuck and then slam in harder? Do I just replace my extractor and spring? Should I call CZ on this one or will it be fine with a new extractor? Or is it something else?
How the round gets stuck:
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160511/0c090081179d0ad4c3a963970db8ae3f.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160511/acd675f942c4390e7a6559cd6a480d03.jpg)
Some angles of the wear in my slide where it contacts the new round feeding from the magazine.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160511/c910f34a9a169d68fcab164533228811.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160511/08937e4e34e20f8448c3f767bff87358.jpg)
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
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Does the gun jam when firing or properly racking the slide either by dropping the release or gripping the slide and letting it fly forward under it's own power? If not I see no issue as you are not supposed to charge a semi-auto slowly and doing so can cause that type of jam in many guns. Not sure how your slide got chipped there but that could likely be polished out a bit and as far as the chip goes that portion of the slide is not in contact with the round in the jam condition you have pictured.
How many rounds through the gun?
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As the parts work together and wear in they should work better, not worse.
Are your self defense rounds the same ones you've used for years? Or something new?
And, before I'd replace the extractor/spring I'd think about replacing the recoil spring. Even if it's working fine while at the firing line there shouldn't be any issue with it working when you need it to work. But, the recoil springs do get weaker over time and can affect feeding, ejection, and wear/tear on the pistol frame itself because it allows the slide to hammer the frame/slide stop harder when fired.
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..If not I see no issue as you are not supposed to charge a semi-auto slowly and doing so can cause that type of jam in many guns...
I agree.
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This started at about 1000 rounds and slowly got a little tougher up to 1300 rounds. Then I shot my first match with it and that was 200 rounds, so 1500 total. This wear happened in those last 200 rounds at the match. The reason I thought this might be the cause (beyond correlation) was that as this gets more difficult, the round encounters more resistance at the phase it contacts the extractor - once that additional force causes it to slide up into place all that additional force is in the brass which the bottom of the brass case slams into the face of the slide where the chipping has happened. There's nothing else contacting that spot that could cause this to happen (that I know of).
SI VIS, I agree this slow chamber in is not how auto pistols are made to function. If the round needed force like this the whole time since I purchased it new then I wouldn't think of this being a problem. It just correlates nicely but correlation doesn't equal causation hence I'm looking to you experts here about my theory. I only do this slow chambering for these self defense rounds so the constant repition of rechambering doesn't push the bullet forward and change the OAL of the cartridge. There was not change in my self defense rounds in the process.
I did actually change the recoil spring 300 rounds ago to a CGW spring. Anyways thank you all for the help and further questions so I can think through all the possibilities!
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Scarlett,
I understand not wanting to set back the bullet on those defensive rounds since those things cost so much. I keep plenty of my prefered carry ammo on hand and when I shoot the guns I carry I use the chambered round as my first shot and after cleaning I chamber a new round of defensive ammo so I never have to worry about set back.
As for the wear/chip in your slide I still think that would polish out without issue but maybe you could email those pics to CZ-USA and get their take on it.
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Does this also happen with the factory recoil spring? Maybe the current spring is too weak to overcome friction?
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First, Have you completely cleaned the extractor channel behind the claw and around the spring?
Gunk will build up in these areas if not periodically cleaned.
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@SI VIS:
That makes sense. I dry fire 5 nights a week and about 3 of those with this pistol. I have tested how many times the slide racking forward it takes to move the bullets and by how much. Have you tested at all? Knowing it's likely to vary from one type to the next... If not I'll do some testing on my rounds and see what they can take.
Sounds like a good idea at this point. While I can Polish this out I want to make sure it doesnt get worse. I'll send them the pics tonight.
@Obiwan:
When I bought the gun I put a lighter CZC recoil spring in right away. The spring still was doing fine when I recently replaced it with a new 14lb spring which was heavier. The problem formed with the first spring but did not improve with the new stronger spring.
@1SOW:
That is what I thought it was. So I removed the extractor and did a deep clean yesterday before posting this. Sadly it did nothing to improve the problem. It was dirty in there, but cleaning didn't eliminate the issue...
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@SI VIS:
That makes sense. I dry fire 5 nights a week and about 3 of those with this pistol. I have tested how many times the slide racking forward it takes to move the bullets and by how much. Have you tested at all? Knowing it's likely to vary from one type to the next... If not I'll do some testing on my rounds and see what they can take.
Sounds like a good idea at this point. While I can Polish this out I want to make sure it doesnt get worse. I'll send them the pics tonight.
I'm currently loading Hornady Critical Defense and I have noticed a visible difference in the case overall length after as little as 4 times dropping the slide on the same round that's why I just went ahead and started firing off the chambered round and starting with a fresh round upon reloading for carry.
I do not dry fire practice with my CZ's but I do use a worn out S&W model 10 as my dedicated DA dry fire practice gun so I never put any extra wear on my defensive and target guns. The DA on the old revolver translates very well to the DA action of the CZ also.
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Scarlett have you compared your extractor to another extractor. Seams possible that it is out of spec. Like the length of the extractor claw or how it is angled.
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IANAGS, but... any chance the cartridges are getting hung up on the firing pin still protruding? Maybe a worn FP spring, or dirty FP channel (or combination of both)? Have you checked the FP spring and cleaned the pin and channel?
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Tok36, I visually checked compared to my newer SP-01. Visually I didn't see any major wearing or differences. I didn't pop them both out to take measurements though. Possibly the angle was worn out of spec but I can't tell in a comparison with them installed.
IANAGS, I just recently cleaned the firing pin and channel while I was putting in a new hammer spring. The FP spring is still goo and the pin doesn't protrude. Tested that tonight to double check when I was looking the see if I could tell if the extractor was out of spec.
I sent an email to CZ customer service this evening. I'll keep you all posted on what they say might be the cause of the chipping.
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Is this the kind of damage that occurs after one manually inserts a cartridge then forces the breech/extracter forward OVER the case rim?
Don't do that. Let the full velocity of the slide strip off a round from an inserted loaded magazine. Top off the mag afterwards if desired.
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Tyerone: Good question, I don't know... I don't do that, but I'd still like to know what damage it causes.
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Don't know if it damages the extractor but it sure cuts a chunk of brass out of the rim of the cartridge.
I've done it for years on my 1911's with no issue. So I was doing it on the P07 when I got it, then I noticed the chunks of brass missing from the rim and stopped doing it.
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Oh jeez, that's good to know for those who reload. Thanks M1A4ME