The Original CZ Forum

GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: IDescribe on June 27, 2016, 12:13:36 AM

Title: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: IDescribe on June 27, 2016, 12:13:36 AM
General:  This is a single-based powder produced by the French manufacturer Nobel Sport.  The brand is Vectan.  I checked the Vectan website so I could be a wiseguy here and post the company's description in French, ;)  BUT the company's website does not list the two Prima powders.  I have no idea what this means.  Anyway, this is a single-base 12ga shotgun powder, so the next time someone is asking for single-base powders appropriate for 9mm minor, Prima V and S/V can be added to the list with Viht and Solo1000.  The powder looks like fine, sharp-edged gravel.  And metering consistency was outstanding in my Hornady drop.

I shot a 5-round where-am-I-at string over the chrono yesterday with PrimaV and an SNS 135RN.  It was ~10 feet/sec faster than Bullseye with the same bullet at the same OAL and the same charge weight from the same pistol.  No way to know for sure if that will play out that close with other bullet types at other weights, but that would be convenient.  ;)  There was no accuracy testing.

I will get out and shoot ladders this week.

Painter, get your chrono warmed up. ;)
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: 1SOW on June 27, 2016, 12:48:38 AM
I read your post on benos along with the other posters results and comments.
I wasn't impressed by most of the other posters comments,  but the results did look interesting for 9mm 124 and 147gr  bullets.
Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: Wobbly on June 27, 2016, 10:58:51 AM
Anyway, this is a single-base 12ga shotgun powder, so the next time someone is asking for single-base powders appropriate for 9mm minor, Prima V and S/V can be added to the list with Viht and Solo1000.


...and IMR 7625  :'( :-\
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: painter on June 27, 2016, 02:53:05 PM
That ship has sailed Mr. W...

let it go.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: Wobbly on June 27, 2016, 03:10:40 PM
That ship has sailed Mr. W...

let it go.

I may need professional counseling.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: painter on June 27, 2016, 03:11:43 PM
That ship has sailed Mr. W...

let it go.

I may need professional counseling.
I understand completely. ;D
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: motosapiens on June 30, 2016, 03:58:13 PM
I'm using 3.1 gr of prima v, coated 147gr flatpoint, oal of 1.2 or maybe a little less. 134-138 pf, feed and group fine. I've shot a thousand or so and loaded a thousand or so more.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: DOODS on July 04, 2016, 08:10:24 PM
I'm using 3.1 gr of prima v, coated 147gr flatpoint, oal of 1.2 or maybe a little less. 134-138 pf, feed and group fine. I've shot a thousand or so and loaded a thousand or so more.

I have loaded 3.1/3.2gr and settled on 3.2 with 147 gr Acme @ 1.15 +/- after chrono. Load about 200rds and shoot some drills and was very happy with the recoil and accuracy if i do my part, I wish i bench this load for accuracy. Well that is were IDescribe comes in. 
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: motosapiens on July 06, 2016, 12:01:50 PM
I'm using 3.1 gr of prima v, coated 147gr flatpoint, oal of 1.2 or maybe a little less. 134-138 pf, feed and group fine. I've shot a thousand or so and loaded a thousand or so more.

mrs moto and I have shot a couple thousand of these loads now in the last few weeks since I finally ran out of my previous red dot load. One thing I have noticed is the prima v burns considerably cleaner. There is lots less soot in the gun after 500-1000 rounds than with red dot.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: IDescribe on July 06, 2016, 01:36:31 PM
One thing I have noticed is the prima v burns considerably cleaner. There is lots less soot in the gun after 500-1000 rounds than with red dot.

Single base, for the win!  ;)
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: SISIG on July 12, 2016, 09:15:05 AM
IDescribe! Let us see some update:)
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data (coming soon)
Post by: IDescribe on July 12, 2016, 11:07:11 AM
So... lazy...  ;)

I haven't done anything.  I've had interference from life.  AND so... lazy...  Maybe this weekend.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: IDescribe on July 30, 2016, 07:51:03 PM
I started to test the Prima V a couple of weeks ago, and my CZ failed during the first string.  Yesterday, I finally took it apart to find out what was wrong, and while I was fiddling with the trigger with it disassembled, two spent primers fell out.  I vaguely remember spilling the little spent primer bucket from my 650, but it was months ago, and I assume the 75SL was disassembled at the time. So apparently I've been carrying around two spent primers tucked away in the pistol's innards for some time, and one of them worked it's way into a problem.  Pistol is fine now.

Anyway, between the very short test a couple of weeks ago and a bunch of strings I've run with my VP9, I was comfortable predicting where these loads would come in, which is why they're not full ladders.  Here we go:

Pistol: CZ-75 ShadowLine
Bullet:   SNS 135gr RN
Powder:      Vectan Prima V
Primers:      S&B
Brass:         Mixed Brass
OAL:           1.115
 
3.1gr      Avg fps - 935  fps  |  SD-9  | ES-21
3.2gr      Avg fps - 953  fps  |  SD-5  | ES-18

___________________________________

Pistol: CZ-75 ShadowLine
Bullet:   ACME 124gr RN
Powder:      Vectan Prima V
Primers:      S&B
Brass:         Mixed Brass
OAL:           1.060
 
3.4gr      Avg fps - 1025  fps  |  SD-6  | ES-20
___________________________________
 
Pistol:         CZ-75 ShadowLine
Bullet:        Precision Delta 124gr JHP
Powder:      Vectan Prima V
Primers:      S&B
Brass:         Mixed Brass
OAL:           1.085
 
3.7gr      Avg fps - 1033  fps  |  SD-10  | ES-29
3.8gr      Avg fps - 1065  fps  |  SD-8  | ES-22

___________________________________

Pistol:         CZ-75 ShadowLine
Bullet:   Precision Delta .356 124gr RN .38 Super
Powder:      Vectan Prima V
Primers:      S&B
Brass:         Mixed Brass
OAL:           1.160
 
4.2gr      Avg fps - 1071  fps  |  SD-8  | ES-32
4.3gr      Avg fps - 1081  fps  |  SD-6  | ES-20
4.4gr      Avg fps - 1110  fps  |  SD-10| ES-37

These ended up a little faster than I expected.  4.2 gr is exactly where I want them, which is fortunate, as the 4.2gr string produced the smallest group of the day.
___________________________________

I actually chronoed from a bench today.  Normally, I do it off hand, but I wanted to get some basic accuracy testing in, so I used a rest.  I didn't swap out targets, just used pasters.   The 135 SNS, the 124 ACME, and the PD .356 38 Super bullet were all exellent in terms of accuracy, with the 4.2gr string with the 38 super being a real standout. The PD 124gr JHP were good enough, but not great.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: RenegadeDave on July 31, 2016, 06:54:36 AM
How smoky is it?  I suspect minimal


Sent from an iDevice.  Please forgive any grammatical or spelling errors.  If the post doesn't make sense or is not amusing then it is technology's fault and most certainly not operator error.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: 1SOW on August 02, 2016, 12:57:49 AM
Those 124 PD JHP loads looked pretty good too.  Did they shoot well?
Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: IDescribe on August 02, 2016, 03:51:25 AM
Those 124 PD JHP loads looked pretty good too.  Did they shoot well?
Thanks for posting.

It's hard to say.  I think if they were the only bullets I shot that day, I would have been happy with them.  Logically speaking, the groups were pretty good.  But the groups for the other three were better, so it's hard to give an enthusiastic endorsement.  ;)
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: IDescribe on August 03, 2016, 02:48:34 PM
How smoky is it?  I suspect minimal.

That's something I don't pay attention to.  I might notice it if it's severe?  Not even sure about that.

But this is single-base powder, so my assumption is that for people who do notice, it's not smoky.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: RenegadeDave on August 03, 2016, 09:18:29 PM
How smoky is it?  I suspect minimal.

That's something I don't pay attention to.  I might notice it if it's severe?  Not even sure about that.

But this is single-base powder, so my assumption is that for people who do notice, it's not smoky.
I only notice shooting indoors, even then only really in low light stuff


Sent from an iDevice.  Please forgive any grammatical or spelling errors.  If the post doesn't make sense or is not amusing then it is technology's fault and most certainly not operator error.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: RenegadeDave on August 26, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
Just checking in to see how you like the stuff, contemplating an order.   I'm shooting Acme 124's pretty much same COAL, I suspect a 3.5 charge just for a little more buffer on PF.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: DOODS on October 14, 2016, 08:53:08 PM
so i have been trying to create a load for this powder and it won't meter well. Is it possible that the variable size of this powder is the culprit? My dillon meter/accurate with N320.

It would be off by .1-.2 grain, what do you guys do if a particular powder does not matter well, do you let it settle a bit, agitate the hopper?
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: IDescribe on October 14, 2016, 11:42:39 PM
I use a Hornady powder drop on my Dillon 650.  Prima SV meters quite well for me.  I haven't used it with a Dillon drop.
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: DOODS on October 15, 2016, 12:52:06 AM
I spoke to soon, it settling now. I have to open up the powder dial a bit to reach the desired load. Will be testing it tomorrow. Loading some Acme 147gr and Xtreme 124gr
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: Wobbly on October 15, 2016, 08:41:00 AM
I spoke to soon, it settling now. I have to open up the powder dial a bit to reach the desired load. Will be testing it tomorrow. Loading some Acme 147gr and Xtreme 124gr.


Yes, varying particle size will affect how the powder flows because at some point of pouring the powder back and forth, smaller particles will gravitate to one end of the container while larger ones go the other way. Particle size also affects the burn rate. This is one reason Alliant started milling Unique.

You'd never want to use the first 10 or more drops from your powder measure. The Dillon PM shakes and bounces like it's not attached well, but this is done precisely to work the contents to a consistent density. Without consistent density you cannot have consistent weights from a constant volume measuring device. If you add the old style Dillon spring to your PM, this aids the snap-back and may get you to a consistent density faster.

 ;)
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: DOODS on October 15, 2016, 09:13:40 AM
Can i use a rubber band ;)
Title: Re: Prima V Load Data - Now with actual data ;)
Post by: IDescribe on October 15, 2016, 02:26:34 PM
Probably.  The Hornady drop is spring returned like that, as well.