The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => CZ Gunsmithing => Topic started by: Polyandsteel on September 07, 2016, 08:59:22 PM
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Hello,
I will say that this shadow came to me in a trade so I don't know what has been done to it. I'm looking to change it to SAO. I've removed the disconnector, and my SAO trigger from CZC will be here tomorrow.
I fear that I'll never get it in though because this trigger pin was evidently put in by Thor. I've tried several sized punches including the CGW starter punch and I can't get t to budge. I haven't hit it quite as hard as I've hit hammer strut pins, but in working on my p01 and P09 I have NEVER had to hit the trigger pin this hard.
So here are some pics: https://imgur.com/a/ll5Su
Do I need to hit it harder or is there some trick I'm missing?
Thanks.
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Oh and my question,
Will the standard curved trigger work for an SAO setup?
Just in case I can't get this trigger pin out.....
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Can't answer your second question, but to answer your first----
Ya, my trigger pins weren't that hard either. Took a good wack with the starter punch and a big hammer (on a hard surface) but once started popped right out.
Not sure which way you were going, but from your pics I'd use the starter punch and a big hammer and go Right to Left.
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Upper pic is the smaller side, that is the side you should use the punch on. make sure the gun is on a hard stable surface like the concrete floor in your garage. put down a rag to protect the finish on the frame. You have to hit the punch really hard but you only need to move 1/8" then switch to a pin punch.
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I appreciate the go-ahead to hit it harder :)
Unfortunately, I hit it as hard as I am willing and it hasn't budged other than deforming the end of the pin. I am worried about nicking up the frame. Will have to find a gunsmith to get itnout, then order a CGW pin. Ack. My p09 was so much easier to work on....
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Standard trigger will not work for SAO as there is no forward travel stop, which kinda defeats the purpose!
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Depends on what you have for tools but I remember rigging something up in a vice to remove a stubborn trigger pin before that could not be beat out. All I used was a drill, a piece of hardwood, and a hard steel metal rod the right size.
I removed anything that would cause interference like the grips, slide, and safeties I put the piece of hard wood in the vice and the gun up against it. You will need to drill a hole in the hardwood where the trigger pin is going to come out. Last thing to do is line up the other side of the vice with the short rod and trigger pin whole and start tightening. After you move the pin a little it will probably come out by hand.
Also it wouldn't hurt to have another pair of hands to help hold everything.
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Thanks for the suggestion, I may have to give this a try.
I also found suggestions on another bird to freeze the trigger pin with compressed air in an attempt to contract it. I'll likely try a combination of these.
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The hard surface is crucial. You want to make sure the blow from the hammer isn't absorbed by anything except the pin.
I luckily didn't have very much trouble with mine. Are you using roll pin punches or flat punches? I hope you've got a CGW trigger pin on order as well! Much easier to replace.
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I just bought some roll pin punches to try, but yeah I was working on the concrete garage floor. Hope I can get it out tonight.
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There is a product commonly used in electronics repairs called something similar to "Freezing Mist/Spray". Comes in a spray can with the common red plastic spray tube for accurate control. Shrinking the pin just a minute amount might give you the edge to punch it out. Google Freezing mist, electronics.
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The OEM trigger pin is flared on both sides. You will have to overcome the flare to get it to move. You need to use a smaller punch than the diameter showing to ensure it has room to let the flare fold in.
I think the starter punch will just aid in keeping/causing the flare and not allow the pin to move. If you have a small 1/16 pin punch you could try that. I have a 1/16 "starter punch" that I converted over when I snapped the original tip off. A little Kroil or penetrating oil will help it along once moving. Home Depot has the el cheapo punches you could sacrifice into a starter punch.
Cheers,
Toby
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The OEM trigger pin is flared on both sides. You will have to overcome the flare to get it to move. You need to use a smaller punch than the diameter showing to ensure it has room to let the flare fold in.
I think the starter punch will just aid in keeping/causing the flare and not allow the pin to move. If you have a small 1/16 pin punch you could try that. I have a 1/16 "starter punch" that I converted over when I snapped the original tip off. A little Kroil or penetrating oil will help it along once moving. Home Depot has the el cheapo punches you could sacrifice into a starter punch.
Cheers,
Toby
The CGW Starter Punch was designed to tackle the trigger pin. Though I was reading a thread that one CZ pin stumped even schmeky so it's possible that OP just has a ton of bad luck! Hopefully he can get it out.
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You're just going to have to get the correct size punch, support the pistol and hit it harder. Also, If you have a drill press you can try chucking up a short punch in the chuck and use it as a press. Probably, you just need to hit it harder. It doesn't look t
that peened over to me.
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When I transition from hitting harder to dangerously hard, I'm known to break a drill bit that is the right diameter, mount the frame to a wood block and then to one vice jaw.
I put the broken drill bit piece on the pin and against the other vice jaw. This allows a lot of force, but is way more controlled than a hammer swing.
Yo do want to go a bit smaller than the pin as the pin is swaged out on the end to lock in position and will cut a ring of metal and that needs to go somewhere.
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I actually bent the CGW punch in this stubborn beast. However, a combination of cold and a roll pin punch got t to budge, still working on getting it all the way out.
The OEM trigger pin is flared on both sides. You will have to overcome the flare to get it to move. You need to use a smaller punch than the diameter showing to ensure it has room to let the flare fold in.
I think the starter punch will just aid in keeping/causing the flare and not allow the pin to move. If you have a small 1/16 pin punch you could try that. I have a 1/16 "starter punch" that I converted over when I snapped the original tip off. A little Kroil or penetrating oil will help it along once moving. Home Depot has the el cheapo punches you could sacrifice into a starter punch.
Cheers,
Toby
The CGW Starter Punch was designed to tackle the trigger pin. Though I was reading a thread that one CZ pin stumped even schmeky so it's possible that OP just has a ton of bad luck! Hopefully he can get it out.
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Dang! Sounds like you got some bad luck with the pin. At least it's beginning to move! Just means it's a matter of time and force before it's out.
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How far out is it?
I ask because when I was driving the pin out of my Pre B CZ 85 I bent my punch. Everything was going great, till the end of the pin I was hitting with the punch dropped down inside the trigger. At that point the pin stopped moving when I hit the punch and it took me a couple/three smacks with the hammer to realize. I started paying much closer attention, hit it again and convinced myself it had really stopped moving. I hit it again, just to confirm that.
When I tried to pull the punch out it hung up (I've never had a punch hang up before). I got a flashlight, looked down inside and saw the punch tip had turned sideways (some misalignment between the pin and the tip of the punch on one or more smacks with the hammer) almost 90 degrees. I yanked/jerked/cussed some and finally got it to pull out with a set of pliers.
I squirted some oil around the holes and the pin and drove it part of the way back in with the hammer to get oil on more of the surface of the pin and then got another punch and drove it on out.
Then I sat down and just ordered a new set of punches as I was already missing a couple from that set (I found one today in a drawer of the tool box in the garage.)
So make sure, if you're not past the trigger already, to maintain correct alignment between the pin and the punch.
Are you reusing that pin? If you are, don't even drive it all the way out. Once it clears the trigger/spring and you can remove the trigger just do it that way. Then you won't have issue restarting the pin into the hole in the frame.
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Looks like CGW sells an alternative to trigger pins from hell:
"CGW?s exclusive floating trigger pin. Can easily be installed and removed an unlimited number of times in minutes! Made from heat treated S-7 tool steel and hardened to RC-50. Lifetime warranty! Includes installation slave pin. Fits all metal framed 75 CZ?s, Shadow, SP-01, P-01, PCR, 97, RAMI, etc. Does not fit Tactical Sport, see part number 75006."
They explain:"TECH TIP: Installation of the TR-PIN will require removal of the OEM trigger pin, which is a hollow steel tube, flared on each end. The OEM pin is not a roll pin. CGW?s forged steel starter punch, part number SP is highly recommended."
Jack
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Taking this thing to a gunsmith tomorrow, hope to finally be SAO by the end of the week...
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Many of us use the CGW Floating trigger pins. They are simple to remove and reinstall.
CZCustom also sells a splid trigger pin that has one end slightly larger than the hole. It also is simple to remove and reinstall. It can only go in or out one way.
I strongly recommend replacing the stock hollow pin with one of these options the first time you plan to pull the stock pin.