The Original CZ Forum

GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: SPO1SHADOW on September 10, 2016, 12:38:44 PM

Title: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on September 10, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
So I was shooting up some factory stuff this morning to just do some casual plinking and reclaim the brass to reload and I pulled the trigger on what seemed like a double charge. A huge Kaboom, big muzzle flash and loud enough to get my wife out of the house to ask what the hell that was that just went off. I checked the gun out and no damage I could find first and then I started investigating. In a box of 50 I found 5 of these. Anyone want to test out their gun? I would be glad to send you some :)

(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/Proof.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/Proof.jpg.html)
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: armoredman on September 10, 2016, 01:18:19 PM
Holy moley - never ever fire that again unless the gun is;
A ) One you don't like
B ) In a Ransom rest being fired by remote!

I would show that to the factory and ask for a replacement box at the minimum, and perhaps they can pay a competent gunsmith to do a once over on the pistol.

I shared your photo on our Facebook page, if you don't mind.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: painter on September 10, 2016, 02:49:08 PM
Glad nothing went horribly wrong. I don't think I'd let them off as easy as a replacement box and inspection by a gunsmith.

The next question is how many more of these rounds are floating around in commercial ammo supplies?
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on September 10, 2016, 02:55:57 PM
That is the real reason I posted this. Everyone be sure to look at your rounds, if you see PROOF, don't shoot it! I have been doing this for the past 45 years and this is the first time I have ever seen this. I cannot say for sure who's this is as I dumped a bunch of odds and ends and part boxes all together just to shoot them up this morning. So be aware you don't get one of these, it will sure make you change your shorts in a hurry.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: 1SOW on September 10, 2016, 03:21:20 PM
Might be dangerous to wear shorts with that ammo. :o
I've never heard of that either. Can you list all the commercial ammo that 'could" of been the supplier?
Fed, Win, etc etc etc.?  How far away was the case when you found it,  and what pistol ere you shooting?
Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on September 10, 2016, 03:47:17 PM
The best info I can find is that proof rounds are used by firearm manufacturers for just that "proof testing" the gun since they all need to meet certain pressure standards so they don't blow up on the user.
Too bad we don't know who actually manufactured those since they surely were never meant to make it out into the hands of the consumer.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on September 10, 2016, 04:09:13 PM
Might be dangerous to wear shorts with that ammo. :o
I've never heard of that either. Can you list all the commercial ammo that 'could" of been the supplier?
Fed, Win, etc etc etc.?  How far away was the case when you found it,  and what pistol ere you shooting?
Thanks for the heads up.

there was a mixture of FC, W-W, S&B and Remington. I was shooting a Glock 34 and I have not found the empty case yet. The Remington's were the only nickel cases but that still doesn't mean anything. All just odds and ends I consolidated so I didn't have to carry 6 partial boxes out to the range. That looks like a W-W primer to me but no way to be sure.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: 1SOW on September 10, 2016, 04:54:13 PM
Thanks,  I don't think it's FC so Win or REM might be the most likely options.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: PeterTheFish on September 10, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
That primer actually looks like a S&B primer, they tend to be more brass colored than Winchester and they have sharper edges vs the very rounded edge of a Winchester primer.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: M1A4ME on September 10, 2016, 07:30:34 PM
Can't say a thing about pistols.

In USGI rifles a proof load was fired (M1 Garands fired proof rounds, just once, that were supposed to generate 70,000 psi).  It's a test.  If they passed the test they got a P (inside a circle) stamped on the wrist of the stock to show the rifle had passed the last/biggest test and was ready to go to war with our servicemen.

While I wouldn't want to fire a steady diet of Proof loads one or two shouldn't hurt it.  I'm not a gunsmith or fire arms manufacturer though.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on September 10, 2016, 09:25:31 PM
That primer actually looks like a S&B primer, they tend to be more brass colored than Winchester and they have sharper edges vs the very rounded edge of a Winchester primer.

You are exactly correct. This is an S&B round. I found another one in with some S&B rounds that came from the same source.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: Exiledviking on September 10, 2016, 11:22:40 PM
Any idea as to how long ago you bought that ammo?
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on September 10, 2016, 11:46:11 PM
I have no idea. People come here to shoot and leave partial boxes of ammo on the table out by the steel plates all the time. No way to date this, could be 2 weeks could be 2 years. I have not purchased any factory ammo in 30 years so I am sure it got here through someone leaving their partial box or sometimes a full box of discarded ammo.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: jameslovesjammie on September 11, 2016, 12:16:23 AM
I would be VERY curious what a chrono reading was...

I would love to dissect one of those cases.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: Colorado Shooter on September 11, 2016, 10:42:23 AM
I'll take one!
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on September 11, 2016, 11:15:48 AM
To keep these from getting back into anyone's gun I took them all apart and threw the brass in the green box. I was just kidding about sending them out. No way I would send one of these to anyone.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: painter on September 11, 2016, 12:04:22 PM
Did you weigh the powder by any chance?
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: jameslovesjammie on September 11, 2016, 12:19:49 PM
Did you weigh the powder by any chance?

That was going to be my next question!  Bullet weight and powder charge.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: IDescribe on September 11, 2016, 01:29:13 PM
And powder type?  Did you keep the powder?  Can we see a pic of the powder?
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: Swamp ash on September 11, 2016, 01:43:45 PM
You are lucky.  However, given the unknown provenance, I would not assume these were factory loads.

You know, the thought just crossed my mind - this story reminds me of a scene from Seinfeld ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKC5jjFkfgo

Sounds like disassembly of the remaining rounds was a great move!  Good job.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: painter on September 11, 2016, 02:55:40 PM
You are lucky.  However, given the unknown provenance, I would not assume these were factory loads.

You know, the thought just crossed my mind - this story reminds me of a scene from Seinfeld ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKC5jjFkfgo

Sounds like disassembly of the remaining rounds was a great move!  Good job.
I don't think many reloaders have stamps small enough to stamp brass.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on September 11, 2016, 03:23:53 PM
Did you weigh the powder by any chance?
You know I did. There was 6.2 grains of powder and the bullet was a 123.6 grain FMJ round. I will fish out some powder and see if I can get enough to take a picture of it.
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on September 11, 2016, 03:47:12 PM
Here is the powder and one of the bullets. The reddish looking mark on the bullet appears to be some kind of sealant, it was coated on the inside of the nickel plated brass also.

(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq75/Bowenbuilt/bullet-powder.jpg) (http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Bowenbuilt/media/bullet-powder.jpg.html)
Title: Re: +P PROOF ROUNDS
Post by: RenegadeDave on September 11, 2016, 04:54:10 PM
I have a buddy who works for Glock, he came to the match one evening and wouldn't shake hands.  He tests a ton of guns, that day he was charged with something asinine of hand firing like 100 proof loads each through a couple guns.  Had to be shot off hand for it to "count".  That's nuts.


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