The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ CLONE CLUB => Topic started by: Rod Slinger on June 18, 2007, 04:25:40 PM
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<BODY TEXT=FFFFFF BGCOLOR=000000 LINK=FFCC33 VLINK=0000FF ALINK=FFCC33>(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/rodslinger_2007/P1010009.jpg) (http://
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The following is posted for Rod Slinger
I'm I having problems posting pictures of what? Sorry for sharing such a mess with you. Maybe and old dog can't learn a new trick? Any way as you can see I have been busy installing fiber optic sights on many guns that were never intended to have these sights. This started last fall and I promised to share the results so here goes.
The original plan was to use TruGlo Tritium/Fiber Optic sights. These sights are truly 24/7 day and night sights. The good folks at TruGlo wanted nothing to do with installing their sights on guns other than the small group they support. If I was Military or Police maybe I would have had better results.
So on to plan B, Hiviz. I can't say enough about Carl at Hiviz. Without his help this project could not have gotten of the ground. In the picture of the four guns all but the R.A.P. have Hiviz sights. If any member would like me to talk you through this project I would be glad to go into greater detail. R. S.(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/rodslinger_2007/P1010003.jpg)
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Also added for Rod Slinger
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/rodslinger_2007/P1010004.jpg)
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jwc007 asked me to go into greater detail on what was involved in installing the sight on my Witness.
At this time I wanted to replace the front sight only. This meant that I had to find a sight which was made for a different pistol and install it on my Witness. The first order of business was to regulate the current sight so it would shoot to point of aim. The gun shot low so it was a simple matter to file down the front sight and bring it to center of target.
Now I was ready to measure from the top of slide at the base of the rib to the top of the front sight. This measurement was important as I could not use a front sight that was higher than the combined measurement of sight and rib.
I chose a Sig 226 sight which would work if I machined twenty thousandth off the rib and could find a carbide cutter at 70 to 72 degrees. I chose to cut the sight rib from the ejection port to front of slide. This resulted in a level sight rib which I find to be pleasing to the eye. A word of caution before milling the rib you need to level the cutter to the rib not the base of the slide. By doing this the serrations terminate evenly in front of the new sight. Next is polishing out the tooling marks left from the carbide cutter. Now is the time to cut the dovetail. I also chose to cut a two thousandth recess for the front sight to rest in. This would make sure nothing could catch under the sight and the slide. If I am lucky I will have pictures which will show this work. R S
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/rodslinger_2007/P1010019.jpg) (http://
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(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/rodslinger_2007/P1010024.jpg) (http://
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(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa176/rodslinger_2007/P1010018.jpg) (http://
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Bumped and Stickeyed, since this topic comes up from time to time.
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What about the factory fiber optic sight for the Match? I recently picked up a 10mm Match, and would love to put a factory fiber optic sight on it? How well do they work? Are they available? How much do they cost?
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What about the factory fiber optic sight for the Match? I recently picked up a 10mm Match, and would love to put a factory fiber optic sight on it? How well do they work? Are they available? How much do they cost?
Henning (http://henningshootsguns.com/shop/sights.html) has them.
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That is excellent work Rod Slinger! Congradulations on a job well done!
Yours,
Virginia Jake
aka Cow Bob
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Hi all,
Last fall I picked up an old Glock 19 just to fool around with and I ran across a HiViz fiber optic sight on ebay that was really cheap so I decided to try it out. The first time at the range I couldn't believe I had ignored these sights for all these years. Well, like all the other Glocks I've ever had, I sold it after a while and went back to my favorite, my all steel Witness. I immediately started trying to find a way to put a fiber optic front sight on the Witness. I read Rod Slinger's post on this forum and like everyone else was impressed with his handiwork. I do not have access to a milling machine so doing the work myself was out. I called a very reputable Gunsmith in my area and told him what I wanted to do but he no longer had a milling machine either and couldn't do the dovetail for me. He suggested EGW (Evolution Gun Works). So I looked through their websight and they do offer the service on EAA guns...but for $140 plus shipping each way! Well, I'm pretty stingy and I only paid $300 for the gun so I didn't want to spend almost that much again just to get a fiber front sight. That started me looking for some other way to do it. I had already wondered if I could make the original front sight into a fiber optic sight and I started giving that some more thought. It took me a month to work up the courage to fire up the Dremel on the 'ol Witness but I finally did. I think it turned out pretty well so I decided to share it with you guys. I did all of it freehand with a Dremel cutoff wheel and a small file. I drilled the hole for the optic rod using a 1/16" cobalt drill bit in a Harbor Freight $39 drill press. The fiber optic rod came from Dawson Precision. It is 0.060" replacement rod and fits the 1/16" hole perfectly. 3" of the rod cost $7.70 with shipping and that was my total investment in this project.
As you can see from the pictures it isn't perfect but it's as straight as I could get it without some sort of jig. The biggest drawback to doing it this way is the shortness of the rod. Because it is so short it doesn't gather as much light and therefore isn't as bright as an aftermarket factory produced sight like the one Rod Slinger used. I am still pondering ways to use a longer rod. For one thing, I plan to thin the front support so that more of the rod will be exposed.
I hope this is helpful to other Witness lovers. Here are the pictures.
Burboy
(http://home.comcast.net/~james.burris/Witness%20Fiber%20Optic%20Front%20Sight%2001A.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~james.burris/Witness%20Fiber%20Optic%20Front%20Sight%2002A.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~james.burris/Witness%20Fiber%20Optic%20Front%20Sight%2003A.jpg)
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nice job, it is amazing what you can do when you put your mind to it.. 8)
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nice job, it is amazing what you can do when you put your mind to it.. 8)
+1! Very ingenious!
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Impressive handiwork as well BurBoy. Was the steel pretty tough or did the drill and dremel tear it up pretty easily? Your post should be in that sticky so it don't get lost.
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Your post should be in that sticky so it don't get lost.
I think I'll merge this into the end of Rod's thread after a bit, so that others have a bit more of a chance to chime in. Let's give it a week.
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BurBoy .....Very nice work. Our you going to do the same to the rear sight? The steel should be easier to work with on the rear sight. R S
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Was the steel pretty tough or did the drill and dremel tear it up pretty easily?
Actually, it was pretty easy to cut. I took my time with both and didn't get in a hurry. The metal is not very hard.
I don't plan to do any work on the rear sight. It may be possible to switch it out with a factory fiber optic if anyone makes one that fits the dovetail or if the dovetail is the same size as some other handgun but I'm not worried about it..
Burboy
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I am new here so i will keep it short Henning is makeing several new sites. a standard hight hi vis typ along with the taller narrow one he already has and a future night site along with several rear sites to go with or blade inserts to work with the different fronts comeing. Try henningshootsgun.com or brian enos eaa tanfoglio forums Lots of small goodies for witness line. I have a witness match 40S&W that i really likeafter about 1000rounds through.
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R.S. I can't believe I have been on this site for over six months and never noticed this post. Where did you find the carbide Dovetail cutter at 70deg? I haven't had much luck finding carbide dovetail cutter period.
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R.S. I can't believe I have been on this site for over six months and never noticed this post. Where did you find the carbide Dovetail cutter at 70deg? I haven't had much luck finding carbide dovetail cutter period.
Brownells has a couple of 74* cutters but nothing in 70* or 72*. There's some 60* and 65* as well. I'm sure there are sights available for some of these cutters.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24924/Product/MEPROLIGHT_reg__DOVETAIL_CUTTER (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24924/Product/MEPROLIGHT_reg__DOVETAIL_CUTTER)
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20728/Product/CRYO_TREATED_DOVETAIL_CUTTER (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20728/Product/CRYO_TREATED_DOVETAIL_CUTTER)
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Hello folks,
In view of the difficulty in obtaining sight dovetail dimensions I post these photos with dimensions,
(http://www.bobclevenger.com/witness_rear_sight.jpg)
Above are the dimensions of the standard Witness rear sight.
(http://www.bobclevenger.com/CZ-75B_rear_sight.jpg)
Above are the dimensions of the CZ-75B rear sight.
(http://www.bobclevenger.com/CZ-75B_front_sight.jpg)
Above are the dimensions of the CZ-75B front sight
Note that the Witness has a smaller dovetail than the CZ and therefore can be milled to the CZ dimensions.
Hi Viz makes a very adequate fibre optic sight set for the CZ-75B.
Dovetail cutters with a 40? included angle (to fit the CZ dovetail) are available from AB Tool and Harvey Tool (Google for website) in solid carbide. Using a standard 3/8" 40? cutter makes a slightly undersize cut for the CZ spec. Moving the cutter a few thousandths right and left opens the cut up to specs. I have done this successfully on my 10mm Witness Compact. Just cut very slowly.
(http://www.bobclevenger.com/Hi-Viz_FO_Sight_on_Witness.jpg)
Above is a shot of the Hi-Viz Fibre Optic sight for the CZ-75B installed on my 10mm Witness Compact's slide.
The front sight of the Witness will need to be milled off and a dovetail for the CZ-spec sight milled in. A standard 3/16" dovetail cutter with an included angle of 40? will work IN THEORY if you make multiple passes. My experience is that this tends to break tools that are this small, so I have ordered a custom-made dovetail cutter to make the front sight dovetail in one pass (after milling a plain slot). I ordered mine from AB Tools. More photos to come after the job is done.
The same process can be used to make any sight for another gun fit as long as the rear sight for the other gun has a dovetail that is LARGER than the Witness dovetail. Most are smaller :( The S&W M&P has a larger dovetail, but I am unaware of the dimensions.
Note that the Witness and the CZ-75B both have their front and rear sights mounted on the same plane (there is no "hump" at the front or rear of the slide) and in order to properly align Point of Aim with Point of Impact the sights that you use should come from a gun that has a flat top surface on its slide as well.
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Very Interesting! 8) Thanx for posting this info, Bob! :)
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so if I am reading this correctly..it would be easier to mill the slide to the CZ cuts..my Witness has front and rear dovetail cuts..the pistol was made in 2008..also it is a full size I think..I cant find anywhere that knows the sight cuts..?
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Just a quick update. The Hi-Viz setup shot very low, so I made a new rear sight for my Witness. I can only assume that the barrel to slide geometry is different on the CZ than on the Witness.
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so if I am reading this correctly..it would be easier to mill the slide to the CZ cuts..my Witness has front and rear dovetail cuts..the pistol was made in 2008..also it is a full size I think..I cant find anywhere that knows the sight cuts..?
I would take photographs and use them to measure the angles as I did in an earlier post here.
Height, width, and such can be measured with any decent caliper. I think actually measuring what is on your gun's slide is the best way to begin. EAA guns have been known to come with different sights from one model to the next.
If your front sight cut is longitudinal it may fit the CZ front sight already. Measure it and compare to the dimensioned photographs I posted earlier. If it's a transverse cut you'll have to measure it to see what it fits. You can use pretty much any sight that has a dovetail running the same direction (longitudinal or transverse) as long as the sight's dovetail is NOT smaller that the cuts in the slide. If it fits, you are good to go test it for point of impact vs. point of aim. If the sight's dovetail is larger, you can either machine the sight's dovetail smaller or machine the slide's cuts a bit wider to make them fit the sights dovetail. Take your pick, One's about as hard to do as the other is.
Hope this helped,
Bob
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Just a quick update. The Hi-Viz setup shot very low, so I made a new rear sight for my Witness. I can only assume that the barrel to slide geometry is different on the CZ than on the Witness.
You'll might be able to "MacGyver" something: The blade on OE front sight on my EAA Witness compact is about 0.145". The blade on HiViz front sight on a CZ is about 0.160" (+0.015"). The rear sight on my EAA Witness compact is about 0.405" overall. The minimum on an LPA TTF86CZ rear sight on a CZ is about 0.445" (+0.040") overall.
Based on all that, I'm thinking that using the CZ HiViz front sight with the CZ LPA rear sight might just leave you with enough adjustment to get on target.
Larry
LPA TTF86CZ:
(http://www.lpasights.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/TTF86CZ_4f369e46c1106.png)
HiViz CZ-75:
(http://www.manventureoutpost.com/product_images/tact/main/NPCZ2210-G_1.jpg)
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Postscript to my last post: My response was specifically aimed at bobclevenger, since he had already modified his witness to accept the CZ sights. LPA does make a TR90TA sight for the EAA Witness which is non fiber optic, but similar enough to their TTF86CZ so as to possibly be able to swap blade assemblies. This may be another alternative for folks who don't have access to a milling machine. Unfortunately, the LPA sights are on backorder everywhere I look (LPA is changing distributers (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=65027.msg439035#msg439035)), so I'll just have to be patient.
Unfortunately, that still leave the front sight to deal with. It would appear that there's no way around machining when it comes to the front sight. My EAA Witness compact is ported, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to cut a dovetail or not. Prior to trying to cut a slot, I was going to try reworking my existing OE front sight to accept a fiber optic bead.
I'll post here in the future once I have all the parts and figure something out.
Larry
TR90TA:
(http://www.kentronsport.com/upload/Prodotti/441_1.jpg)
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Witness Fiber Optic Sights
The sights on my EAA Witness compact are really BBBBAAAAADDDD. The front post seems too high and the front dot is too dim to see in low light conditions. The diagram shows three traditional sight pictures, plus mine. Lining up the tops of the blade puts me at least 6" to 12" low at about 20'.
After only about nine months, I finally have gotten around to replacing my sights. Here's my solution:
1) Order up an LPA TTF86CZ fiber sight used for CZ pistols AND a LPA TR90TA18 traditional sight used for EAA Witness pistols.
2) Swap leafs of the two sights, giving you a fiber rear sight for the Witness. To do so, remove the adjustment screw and drive out the pin with a 1/16" punch. To reassemble, reinstall the screw and them tap the pin back in. Exercise care when reinstalling, neither the screw nor the pin should require much force to install. Note there are two small springs under the leaf -- don't lose them.
3) Install the fiber rear sight as normal.
4) Now for the front sight: Order up a HiViz HSG1002 front sight for Sig Sauer P-Series pistols and a dovetail 3/16" 70 degree dovetail cutter Harvey Tool #977812-C3 (http://www.harveytool.com/prod/Dovetail-Cutters/Specialty-Profiles/Browse-Our-Products_202/Dovetail-Cutters_84.aspx).
5) Mill off the original EAA Witness sight. The front sight sits on a slightly raised area of the slide. With care you will be able to mill off the front sight and a couple thousands of the raised area, leaving the finish on the rest of the slide intact. Note that the Witness slide is really hard -- take it slow and you'll be fine.
6) Mill the dovetail. I zeroed the bottom of the dovetail to the top of the freshly milled area of the slide, then lowered the cutter 0.065". Set the cutter in order to position the dovetail so that the front of the sight will be just behind the front of the slide. The dovetail cutter I used is about 0.005" smaller than the dovetail on the sight. I was able to perform the cut in two passes. If you take it *really* slow on the first pass you can use the dovetail cutter alone to cut the slot without the need to pre-cut a slot with a standard end mill.
7) The dovetail portion of the HiViz HSG1002 is way too wide. You'll want to narrow it. My witness is factory ported, so I took about 0.100" off each side so that it didn't block the porting. YMMV.
8 ) Install the front sight as normal.
9) Cleanup with alcohol and blue using cold blue.
10) There will be a small gap under the back of the sight blade and the top of the slide. Using red Locktite or thin epoxy, fill the gap. Note that I was able to use standard notebook paper to help coerce the Locktite into the gap. Cleanup using a small amount of alcohol -- use a tiny amount since you don't want to flush out the gap.
Enjoy,
Larry
My original sight picture:
(http://www.victorinc.com/Pictures/sightimages.jpg)
Front Sight:
(http://www.victorinc.com/Pictures/WitnessFront.jpg)
Rear Sight:
(http://www.victorinc.com/Pictures/WitnessRear.jpg)
LPA TTF86CZ:
(http://www.lpasights.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/TTF86CZ_4f369e46c1106.png)
LPA TR90TA18:
(http://www.lpasights.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/TR90TA18_4f3e896f21807.png)
HiViz HSG1002
(http://www.hivizsights.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/s/hsg1002-r.jpg)
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Range Report
I was a little worried the rear sight would not go low enough . . . but no worries, as I had to adjust it close to the upper limit of the travel. All-in-all, it looks like my original "factory" rear sight was at least 0.050" too short. this leaves me to wonder if it was really the factory rear, or whether someone had replaced it at some point with the wrong one. But never mind any of that now, as I can finally hit the center of the target!
I was also worried about the porting messing up the front sight. But no worries here either, the sight stayed clean and undamaged. However, it does seem that the HiViz sight is not a bright as the LPA rear.
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Range Report - Part 2
I decided to order up a AmeriGlo tritium front sight to increase the visibility of the front sight even further. It's P/N SG-212-220-GR for Sig pistols. Note that this is a "Sig #8 sight". With Sig, higher numbers mean a smaller height -- so this sig sight should be slightly shorter than the HiViz sight.
Larry
(http://images1.opticsplanet.com/755-405-ffffff/opplanet-ameriglo-front-sig-tritium-grn-w-220in-height-8-sg-212-220-gr.jpg)
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Finally reporting back . . .
I was extraordinarily happy with the LPA sights brightness in low light conditions, but I was just ok with the AmeriGlo tritium sight in low light conditions.
Unfortunately, I bumped the front sight on a recent trip to the range, and it's now MIA (my fault for not securing it better). On the plus side, I can now see about an even brighter sight . . . so I'm thinking about another tritium front sight.
So what's the brightest tritium sight out there? I've heard good things about the brightness of Meprolight and TruGlo TFO.
Larry
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I ordered up both Meprolight and TruGlo TFO . . . unfortunately, the TruGlo sight is NOT a Sig #8. It's 0.020" too wide and 0.060" to high. Maybe it works OK when used with their supposed #8 Sig rear sight, but it's not going to work for my application. I'm not even 100% sure the sight would even work on a Sig, since the dovetail is about 0.035" thicker than it should be. Bummer, cause it's visibly brighter in all lighting conditions.
The Meprolight looks to be about the same brightness as the AmeriGlo sight I lost. Of course, I was unable to do a head-to-head comparison. :)
After mounting the Meprolight, I notice that the dot sits ever so slightly lower in the front blade. In the end, I expect that AmeriGlo was the perfect sight for my project.
Larry
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Dawson Precision makes sights for the Tanfo. I run a .140 in my stock 3 but I plan on swapping it out for the
.120 so I can crank the rear sight all the way down.
They do not offer one with tritium though.
https://dawsonprecision.com/eaa-witness-match
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Dawson Precision makes sights for the Tanfo.
These are for the Witness Match. The standard witness has a fixed front sight and need machining.
Larry
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Old thread, older quest.
Well, I ordered the TruGlo TFX Pro sight set for the CZ-75. I had encouraged them to add the CZ-75 to their TFO/TFX lineup, so I was kind of honour-bound to eventually buy a set. :) I did this just a couple of days ago. Amazon has them at about the best price I could find.
As nobody will recall, I have milled out the rear sight dovetail to CZ-75 dimensions and also milled off the front sight and milled in a dovetail slot for the CZ-75 front sight. I also drilled the front of the slide to accept the CZ-75 front sight pin.
I expect the TruGlo sights to arrive in about a week or less. I shall install them on my Witness Semi-Compact in .38 Super/9x23 Winchester and give a report after hitting the range. Just hoping that the elevation will be close to POA=POI.
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I'd love a compact carry witness in 10mm, but the fixed sights are a no-go for me.
I have a Witness 10mm Elite Match that I love, but it is huge, and has lovely fiber-optic sights front and back.
Was your slide steel or stainless?
On my Elite Match Witness I used a Novak rear sight for a S&W M&P.
It works with a 0.025" shim under it, but the Elite Match and standard Witness pistols have different rear sight dovetails.
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I'd love a compact carry witness in 10mm, but the fixed sights are a no-go for me.
Fixed as opposed to adjustable?
I have a Witness 10mm Elite Match that I love, but it is huge, and has lovely fiber-optic sights front and back.
Was your slide steel or stainless?
My slide is the steel "Wonder" finish. I know of no Stainless Witness slides or frames, for that matter.
On my Elite Match Witness I used a Novak rear sight for a S&W M&P.
It works with a 0.025" shim under it, but the Elite Match and standard Witness pistols have different rear sight dovetails.
Yeah, the dovetails are a real problem. That's why I found out that the CZ-75 rear dovetail is a bit wider than the standard Witness's dovetail and I milled it out to CZ-75 width. Now rear sights for a CZ-75 will fit.
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I'd love a compact carry witness in 10mm, but the fixed sights are a no-go for me.
Bob's on a specific quest because he started down the "CZ-75 road". Earlier in the thread I have a post on how to replace the Witness fixed front sight with one from a Sig. It requires cutting a Sig dovetail, but it's a pretty easy machining operation. Most gunsmiths should be able to perform it for a few tens of dollars.
That same post include a trick to get the fiber sights in the rear without re-cutting the dovetail.
Larry
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OK That makes more sense.
My comment on fixed sights is because I have ever diminishing near vision so I need fiber sights to see anything.
I like the idea of cutting the SIG front sight dovetail.
I did that to a Kahr CM9 and a Bersa Thunder plus so I could use TFX-pro sights.
I have scoured the internet for an extensive collection of sight dovetail specs and cutters.
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Amen! Finding dovetail specs for gun sights is like searching for the Holy Grail.
I chose CZ sights because I own a CZ-75 Compact and I could measure the dovetails on them. I looked at SIG sights but found no info, and I don't own one that I could measure. At the time I used Hi-Viz fibre optic sights because they made a set for the CZ. I really wanted day/night sights like the TFX, but Tru-Glo was of no help at all and they didn't make them for the CZ.
Yes, my eyes are also old enough to benefit greatly from the fibre optic sights.
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Well I am the nutjob who edited a set of TFX-Pro Kimber Compact sights to fit my RAMI.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/129065511@N02/albums/72157678346024925
I am going to be creating a Flickr account to post the dovetail specs I have so far.
I hope that other people will add theirs.
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Well I am the nutjob who edited a set of TFX-Pro Kimber Compact sights to fit my RAMI.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/129065511@N02/albums/72157678346024925
I am going to be creating a Flickr account to post the dovetail specs I have so far.
I hope that other people will add theirs.
Excellent! My measurements for CZ-75 and rear dovetail for Witness are earlier in this thread. They are dimensioned photos.
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I had to figure out a technique for measuring any dovetail.
It's a combination of an angle gauge set from Germany, some precision ground pins and a smart phone app.
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I photographed the sights with the camera square to the face of the sight so as to avoid distortion and then loaded the image into a photo editor that has the ability to rotate the image any amount in very small increments. Step one was to position the base of the sight so that it is perfectly horizontal with respect to the image frame and save a working copy of the image. Then I rotated the working copy of image until the slanted face of the dovetail was parallel with the horizontal line (the "crop" feature gave me a reference line) and took the angle of rotation as the dovetail angle (for one side -- double it for the total angle). Much harder to describe than to actually do it.
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stagesmith, it appears that you milled off the original dovetail from the TFX sight and cut a new -- female -- dovetail into it to accept an adapter that you made. Is that correct? Good thinking and it also allows you to adjust the height of the finished sight which was a problem that I had. I didn't think of this way of doing it. Thank you for showing us. I could have avoided milling the rear dovetail into my slide, though that wasn't difficult.
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Yes I sacrificed a CZ fixed RAMI sight to harvest the male dovetail.
The RAMI has the same base dovetail as other CZ's, but the rear shelf is different.
The Kimber Compact has a similar disparity between the front and rear sight heights because it has a similar down tilted barrel when in Battery.
That is why I chose it.
I actually did it twice.
The first time it was a bit too tall, so I cut the upper section down and recut the dovetail.
The front sight just had to be peened to spread the dovetail until it fit in the RAMI dovetail slot.
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We must be a special kind of crazy to do this. ::)
Well, I finished installing the TFX Pro sight set on my Witness's slide and just have final zeroing at the range left to do. I think this will work. ;D
Here are a couple of "shots" (pun intended) of the 9x23 Winchester Witness Semi-Compact with the TFX Pro sights installed.
First a sort of "shooter's eye view" and yeah, I probably should have used something other than the magazine to prop up the pistol because the top round is right behind the rear sight and it is distracting.
(http://www.bobclevenger.com/images/9x23_sc_01.jpg)
And a view of the left-hand side of the pistol
(http://www.bobclevenger.com/images/9x23_sc_02.jpg)
The TFX sights work as described by Tru Glo. Nicely visible green front and rear at night and a quickly-acquired (even with my old eyes) orange front and green rear.
Note: anyone thinking of adding a CZ-75 front sight to a standard Witness should look closely at the cross-pin under the front sight. On my pistol it is larger than necessary (1/8" rather than 1/16") and it is located about 1/16" too low ( the reason I had to use a larger pin) and the lower edge of the pin binds on the barrel stopping it from fully going into battery. I had to machine off the lower half of the pin in the centre in order to clear the barrel. I chose to keep the cross-pin as I think it is a good idea, but since the Tanfoglio design does not use a bushing around the muzzle-end of the barrel you COULD do away with the crosspin if you secured the sight in the dovetail with Loctite or something similar. If you don't secure it, the front sight WILL come loose under recoil and go flying downrange.
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Looks good.
I just picked up a used set of resizing dies for 38 Super.
I somehow think it is in my future.
My real obscure temptation is to convert a Witness in 10mm to 9x25 Dillon.
9x25 Dillon is to 10mm what 357 SIG is to 40 S&W.
Bottle necked and screaming hot.
Kind of famous for ripping the rifling out of barrels.
You have to find a gun for which there are 10mm and 38 Super barrels on the same frame.
I think the full sized Large-frame Witnesses will work.
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I believe you are correct. Get a .38 Super or even a 9x19 barrel and ream the chamber to 9x25 Dillon. Mate it up with a 10mm slide and your Witness frame of choice. Voila! A 9x25 Dillon Witness. If the .38 Super barrels have a slower twist rate than the 9x19 barrels that would probably work better at 9x25 Dillon velocities.
Kinda makes me wonder about reaming out a .38 Super barrel to 9x25 Mauser -- but where would I get brass?
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Shot the 9x23 Witness with the TFX sights today. Rear sight was centered on the slide using the old "Mk I Eyeball" and seemed to be pretty close. 4 out of 5 shots into 1.25" at 7 yards (this is a combat pistol, after all). A range employee fired five at my request and the results were pretty comparable though a bit lower and with just a little vertical stringing. Came back home and applied Loctite to the sights.
Here is a photo of my 7 yard target:
(http://www.bobclevenger.com/images/9x23_SC_Target.jpg)
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Good Shooting and Congratulations on all of your hard work coming together! 8) :)
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Thanks. ;D
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Here I am again on this "thread that just won't die." :o
I have noticed that Tanfoglio uses (at least) two different dovetail cuts on the Standard Steel Witnesses; one is about 3/8" wide at the bottom of the dovetail and the other one is closer to 1/2" at the base. The wider one is a "Novak-style" cut and today I installed an LPA adjustable fibre-optic rear sight. It fits the wider dovetail cut like a glove. By the way, the reason for the adjustable sight is that my pistol shot low and I couldn't locate a higher fixed rear sight for it.
The sight that I used was bought from Fusion Firearms and is LPA part number MPS2-FO.
My intention is to cut a dovetail slot in the front of the slide (hopefully centered this time!) for the Witness Match-type fibre-optic front sight from Dawson Precision (on its way to me as I type this) which should negate needing any cross-pin.
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I have the specs for that dovetail if you want them.
You can email me direct at ernie@stagesmith.com
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I installed an adjustable LPA fibre-optic rear sight (LPA # MPS2-FO) along with the Dawson Precision fibre-optic front sight for the Witness Match. The dovetail for the front sight was intentionally cut deep since the pistol had a tendency to shoot low -- this should allow the most adjustment possible, and also position the rear sight as low as possible when zeroed. Heading out to the range tomorrow.(http://www.bobclevenger.com/10mm S-C.jpg)
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Ooh I really like the barrel porting through the slide.
How well does that work?
I put a hunter barrel in my Elite match and the Elite match barrel in my Compact so I could mount compensators on both, but I have been pondering porting the barrel through the slide on my RAMI.
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Ooh I really like the barrel porting through the slide.
How well does that work?
It is fairly effective, but it is no comp.
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Front Sight:
(http://www.victorinc.com/Pictures/WitnessFront.jpg)
My trails and tribulations regarding the front sight continued. I just wasn't happy with the brightness of the AmeriGlo tritium, the Meprolight, or the HiViz HSG1002 (shown in the photo above). I finally decided to try the HiViz SGLW08 LITEWAVE Front Sight (Sig #8), and I'm impressed that the overall brightness is similar to the LPA in the rear.
I have a TLR-4 mounted to the pistol -- even in a pitch black room, the fiber sights light up like crazy from just the reflected flashlight light.
Larry
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71zj886ewUL._SL1500_.jpg)
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Very very Interesting! 8)
I've been experimenting with the Hi-Viz Sights on other Pistols and have had issues with their lack of brightness, too!
Not sure how to cure that, but I'm looking for a solution.
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I installed an adjustable LPA fibre-optic rear sight (LPA # MPS2-FO)
Bob,
I see you've got the *new* LPA FO sight for the Witness (as opposed to the one I jury-rigged back on page two of this thread). How did it work out?
I would be specifically interested in the brightness. Also, some of LPAs earlier sights are listed as "low profile" and don't elevate far enough for some of my pistols. So I would also be interested in knowing how high the sight elevates.
thanks,
Larry
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Larry, sorry to be so late in replying but I do not check this site often enough.
Brightness of the sights on my 10mm Semi-Compact are run-of-the-mill, but they are not bad. The elevation on the adjustable rear sight goes far enough to zero my pistol at 7 yards, so I am happy with that. I do not know how much higher it will go before things start to disassemble.
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Not the best of picture, but that's a Dawson F.O. front sight just installed on my stock III. This is the fourth or fifth sight from Dawson and can't recommend them enough. Hope to try it out tomorrow.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kMTkbQws/dawson-fo.jpg)
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Nice. I agree that the FO sights from Dawson are a great option for the Tanfoglios (Witnesses) that have dovetailed front sights.
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Love this thread. Hoping to use similar sights. While researching clones of the CZ I found a thread in forum that I can't remember, but they drilled their stock sights and Used a dremel to open it up. Seemed to work fine. It looked kind of artistic too. The thread was from around 07-08. I do remember that much. But a different forum. May have been different type gun forum as well. I was researching fiber optic sights. Trying to find something that worked on clones. But seems like things are getting better.