Double Action | Single Action | |
CZ 75 Compact Classic SAO | 2 lbs 5 ounces | |
SP-01 | 6 lbs 9 ounces | 2 lbs 8 ounces |
SP-01 Compact | 9 lbs 4.3 ounces | 4 lbs 10 ounces |
Double Action | Single Action | |
Step 2: Polish Trigger and Trigger Bar | 9 lbs 7.8 ounces | 4 lbs 12 ounces |
Step 3: CGW Reduced Power Trigger Return Spring | 9 lbs 4 ounces | 4 lbs 4 ounces |
Step 4: CW Ultra-Lite Self Defense Kit | 7 lbs 11 ounces | 3 lbs 8 ounces |
Step 5: Polishing Remaining Stock Parts | 7 lbs 13 ounces | 4 lbs 0.5 ounces |
Step 6: The Polished Competition Hammer | 7 lbs 11 ounces | 2 lbs 11 ounces |
Step 7: Removing Firing Pin Block, FPB Lifter Arm, and associated springs | 7 lbs 11 ounces | 2 lbs 7 ounces |
Step 7.5: Cajun Gun Works 11.5 lb Hammer Spring | 5 lbs 9 ounces | 2 lbs 0.4 ounces |
Double Action | Single Action | |
CZ 75 Compact Classic SAO | 2 lbs 5 ounces | |
SP-01 | 6 lbs 9 ounces | 2 lbs 8 ounces |
SP-01 Compact | 9 lbs 4.3 ounces | 4 lbs 10 ounces |
I know this took a lot of work. Thanks for sharing.
Great write up Scarlet Pistol. [emoji106]
As to your DA pull, with what you've done, I'd say your right where you belong.
All my pistols (Rami BD, P01, SP01 Tactical, and Phantom) sit at 8lb or a little less with the 13# hammer spring.
But..... the kicker here is your baseline. Amazing that you started off with a 9 lb 4.3 oz DA [emoji50]
All of mine have been around 14lb when stock!
Great job[emoji6]
Thank you for the very detailed write up. I appreciate the work you put into it. After shooting my SP-01 Compact completely stock yesterday, I just don't see myself changing a thing besides the sights. Even the sights are kind of decent. Mine have a larger green painted dot, with two smaller yellow painted dots on the rear sight. All glow with charging, but the front is larger and brighter. Kind of a nice, so I'm not too worried or in a rush.I'm stoked to hear more good things about these SP-01 Compacts, glad you are enjoying yours! I would feel pretty bad had I gotten excited and then helped convince other people to buy them and then they were crappy...
Good job Scarlet.Thanks rhart!
I'm not surprised that all the polishing did not reduce trigger pull weights. I've quit polishing them and just let them polish themselves through the firing cycles. The most bang for your effort is the springs, extended firing pin, a disco and comp hammer.
I wish I had a trigger pull gauge to test my trigger now that I've done the upgrades on my SP01 Compact. It feels similar to the results you show, but I don't know for sure. I did shoot it today after installing the SRS and comp hammer last night. Another two hundred trouble free rounds shooting FM 115gr HP ammo. I'm tickled shirtless!
Step 2 Reults:
Double Action: 9 lbs 7.8 ounces
Single Action: 4 lbs 12 ounces
I?ll be honest, I didn?t expect these results. I pulled the trigger over and over with the gauge. I had re-applied the same lube I had used when I cleaned and re-lubed the pistol after I brought it home. Furthermore, the trigger pull on double action felt better. I was sure it would have dropped the pull weight at least a little. As with all sections, I am ready to hear thoughts and feedback. While this polishing is essential, maybe just these two parts alone won?t make any difference in the pull weight, just feel?
This may indeed be one area where you have actually increased the contact surface areas on the trigger bar and added a bit of drag. Although the smoothness was increased, the perceived weight seemed less than before.
Just a thought.
Thanks for the write-up. I just bought the same railed steel-frame compact pistol with manual safety, and have already ordered roughly the same bag of goodies to work it up with, along with the addition of a steel guide rod (the polymer one in my other CZ 75C Compact was totally warped and crooked beyond belief after just 700 rounds) and a CZ 97 "thick" trigger (I just can't do the recurve trigger, it pinches my finger to death and back).
One thing I DID notice, from extra mod parts I already have here, is that a 13 lb hammer spring does NOT reduce the DA pull weight in the compacts nearly as much as it does in the full-sized guns. Of course, the compacts have the shorter grip frame, shorter hammer strut, and shorter hammer spring retainer plug. I would bet that the 13 lb hammer spring is actually more compressed in the compact guns than it is in a full-sized CZ. I suspect that running an 11.5 lb hammer spring in a compact will feel more like the 13 lb hammer spring feels in a full-sized CZ......Some measurements of the hammer spring's length while installed, in both a compact and a full sized gun, and with the hammer both cocked and uncocked, would probably tell the story there....And if not, there might be another reason for this effect. I can notice it just by how hard it is to cock the hammer manually, between the compact and a full sized gun with the same 13 lb hammer spring installed in each.
I'll also add that the hammer hooks on this compact CZ's stock hammer are rougher, and have worse camming, than on any other CZ I've bought, and the sear is the roughest I've seen. I may have to add a custom sear to this pistol, depending how the hammer install goes.....
I can't wait to slick up and upgrade this chunky little sucker, and get it to the range! When you have Cajun and CZC parts on the way, the mail seems SOOOOOO slow...LOL!!!!!
So tonight I quickly took apart my SP-01 and my Compact SP-01. I took the CGW disconnector out of my full size and put it in the compact. No measurable difference in trigger pull... My hypothesis is debunked about the disconnector.Your trigger reset directly correlates with your trigger pull during multiple shot engagements... You're only half debunked, weight and perception. Weight and perception.
MGSchnindel may have it right with a difference in the spring being compressed more. I am pretty sure I read somewhere that they are the same but maybe they are slightly different. Other than that M1A4ME could have it with just the difference from one pistol to the next...
Great writeup! Thank you!You're welcome!
I've been using the 11.5 lb hammer spring with Blazer without an issue. Will be trying some Aguila when I get it in as well.Good to know and keep us posted! Still with your 85 Combat right? I wish I had a tool that measured impact pressure that I could insert and test the hammer strike to more easily conduct this portion of the test. Anyone know of such a tool?
Yup. Though now I have my eyes on the Shadow 2 :DHaha you and me both comrade!
Don't think my wallet will allow for it though :(
Do you need to know how hard the hammer strikes, or do you really want to know how hard the firing pin strikes with that hammer?
There is a lot of great information here. Thanks for posting this and taking the time to do it!
Maybe I missed it, but what was the purpose of a new hammer strut?
But the bottom line I am reading, I think, is that I could install a RHK Race Hammer Kit, with strut, do some polishing, and be pretty content. Call it Phase I, if you will.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/race-hammer-kit/
Do you need to know how hard the hammer strikes, or do you really want to know how hard the firing pin strikes with that hammer?
Do you need to know how hard the hammer strikes, or do you really want to know how hard the firing pin strikes with that hammer?
I imagine it would be easier to measure how hard the firing pin strikes. It seems to me that all you would have to do is measure the depth on fired casings (various primers) with different springs. To determine whether the compact is (pre?) compressing the spring more it seems that simply removing the grips and measuring the springs on both guns in both the hammer down and hammer back configuration?
Great little information by Scarlett Pistol on upgrades and how they pan out. One thing to remember is no 2 pistols will respond to the same upgrades in the same way. Many times the differences can be rather dramatic.
On the primer impact/hammer inertia question, we have found the best way to "measure" this is by using a common dial indicator and measuring the depth of the indent in the primer.
But the bottom line I am reading, I think, is that I could install a RHK Race Hammer Kit, with strut, do some polishing, and be pretty content. Call it Phase I, if you will.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/race-hammer-kit/
Correct.
Order 2 of these, so you don't have to use the OEM staked pins when putting it back together. Its a waste of time to try using those OEM pins (tried that, fail).
https://cajungunworks.com/product/hpin/
Make sure you have a punch like this to get out the hammer pins and trigger pin. (Tried without one several times, muchando fail!)
https://cajungunworks.com/product/sp-forged-steel-starter-punch/
Freeze the OEM Hammer, Strut, and Disconnector group (I put mine in a zip lock bag with the air pressed out). Then take it out and immediately put on a bench block that is on something sturdy, like cement, and hammer out. Using that starter punch to get them started. (Broke punches, cracked off wood from a bench, never succeeded until I did this.)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047WKF84/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Since you are going to be polishing (which I still think is completely worth the time and effort) you will be removing the trigger and trigger bar. You'll use that starter punch for that as well. It's a total waste of your time to use the OEM trigger retaining pin. Order this floating trigger pin to save all sorts of time and grief.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/tr-pin-cgws-exclusive-floating-trigger-pin/
Lastly, while you are in phase 1. For a few bucks you should snag one of the CGW firing pin retaining pins. I didn't get a picture of my OEM part, but I probably dry fired on it 10 times (forgot to rack my slide and pick up the snap cap). There was a very pronounced indentation from just that little slip of the mind. For $5 this part is worth it so you don't have to worry about the OEM part getting messed up. Plus, you'll likely be polishing the FPB so you'll be removing the OEM pin anyways. Still use a snap cap to prolong the part's life, but CGW says these take something like 1,000 Dry Fires. Just my opinion to save some grief and brace against the potential mental slip.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/
Its a few more parts than just the kit you are looking at, but from my own learning experiences of not getting hammer pins out, ordering new struts because of that, breaking punches trying to removing hammer pins, destroying OEM firing pin retaining pins, and so forth --- I think those are the bare necessities. BTW do NOT use a rubber mallet (also a learned mistake). Tried to include my failure examples to illustrate why I make a few extra recommendations. Hope this was helpful and not too long winded.
I appreciate you taking the time to specifically make recommendations for my project. My plan is to modify my ?outdoors? gun for use in the field, so I don?t need target pistol features, just better performance for defensive purposes. I will take your advice and get the other parts you mentioned, they look to increase reliability, while keeping most of the OEM parts, which is what I was after for my ?Phase I?. I am discussing this project in another thread: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=82718.0Ah, I remember that thread. Glad to help, just paying it forward after receiving so much help from the forum members. Excited to see how your pistol turns out!
Wow! 5.9lb double action - I hope it ignites all primers. If it does I may install one on mine - already have the spring. That single action is a little light for carry though.Yeah, the Double action has probably ruined me.... Seriously ruined me!
One thing to remember is no 2 pistols will respond to the same upgrades in the same way. Many times the differences can be rather dramatic.Master Schmeky,
SCARLET! Your write-up sold a pistol. That, Sir, is impressive.Haha I'm glad this has been helpful! I polish all my pistols, even if nothing else is upgraded. Makes it really smooth and its cheap to free.
I ran down the rabbit hole guys! This is where I ended up.
Backstory: Nov. 6th I took home my first firearm (SP-01 Tact.) and ran 550 rounds through it. I started to get curious and found the forum. About midway through this thread I ordered the "Compact SP-01," Nov. 10th. Lol four days... only four days. So... I've spent the last week trying my darndest to wrap my head around all the newness.
Advise? upgrade the full size w/decocker or compact with safety? And, is 6#ish DA/3#ish SA necessary for learning the fundamentals of comp shooting. That's the end game plan: casual competition.
I figure, the sensible thing seams that I lighten the fire mechanics on the full size, keep the compact stock.
Ultimately I will make my own decisions and don't hold others accountable for choices I make.
Thanks.
And, is 6#ish DA/3#ish SA necessary for learning the fundamentals of comp shooting. That's the end game plan: casual competition.
He has a super detailed analysis of his videos over on Brian Enos. Very meticulous in his write ups.Really? That's a great find! I have the search function over there... Would you mind sharing a link to spare me the effort?
He has a super detailed analysis of his videos over on Brian Enos. Very meticulous in his write ups.Really? That's a great find! I have the search function over there... Would you mind sharing a link to spare me the effort?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
He has a super detailed analysis of his videos over on Brian Enos. Very meticulous in his write ups.Really? That's a great find! I have the search function over there... Would you mind sharing a link to spare me the effort?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Yup, I assumed that was how you found him. He was definitely pretty talented starting as a C class shooter and B class a month later. I think he also had the luxury of having a very good range to practice at with big bays.
http://forums.brianenos.com/index.php?/topic/208466-chic-hwansik-kim/
No worries, glad this was all helpful for you! Let us know how the practice and training goesHe has a super detailed analysis of his videos over on Brian Enos. Very meticulous in his write ups.Really? That's a great find! I have the search function over there... Would you mind sharing a link to spare me the effort?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Yup, I assumed that was how you found him. He was definitely pretty talented starting as a C class shooter and B class a month later. I think he also had the luxury of having a very good range to practice at with big bays.
http://forums.brianenos.com/index.php?/topic/208466-chic-hwansik-kim/
Thank you. So much info. packed into that trail. After three hours of reading and videos, I will listen to your suggestion Scarlett: I have decided to save the link for later and have scheduled one-on-ones with a friend who is in the sport.
Sorry to sidebar from the Subject.
Amazing thread and information. If this isn't a sticky it should be. I will be coming back to this thread later that is for sure. Thank you for the time and effort.Glad it was helpful!
I know this thread is getting long in the tooth, but excellent information and kudos for following a process, Well done......hat?s offThanks, glad it still has some readers!
I'm trying to figure out how I missed this post!
Excellent write-up! I just read the entire thing, beginning to end.
Thanks for the time you put into this!
Wanted to jump on the "thank you" bang wagon.
Also, I haven't seen anyone describeing it before but I found a way to remove and and reassemble the flat magazine spring without clipping the hook from the bottom. The main part is that hook is holding the hammer spring from jumping out.
Here is the process:
1. Assuming the grips are removed, as well as the bottom retention pin and top pin holding flat spring in place.
2. Depress the hammer spring all the way back up and wiggle the flat spring a little. It will come our without any pressure.
3. To reassemble : put the hammer spring back, push and hold it all the way in. Now insert the spring, hook part first. You will feel it catching up the hammer spring. Again, it will hold the hammer spring from flying out and you can re-install the pins now.
Hope that helps.
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Scarlett Pistol--I appreciate your contribution to the forum here. Well done.
I have been studying trigger pulls and "feel" ever since I started shooting bullseye a few years ago. On both the 75B and the 97B"E", I started off with too light a trigger pull and have since found that, for me, I am most consistent at bullseye match speeds with 3 to 4 lb pulls that are not too crisp, but instead are very smooth. I could shoot a Kadet with 2 lb pull frame parts just fine, but not with a 9mm slide and certainly not a .45. I have to be able to put some pressure on the trigger without it going off unexpectedly, especially with the centerfire guns. What I wound up doing was more sear engagement than most people like, with some strong sear springs and 17 lb hammer springs so that the triggers were predictable and felt "similar".
My point being that precision shooters definitely have personal preferences. We are blessed with having suppliers that can provide parts to do what we think we need and can guide us (and take our money!) as we home in on what we actually need. Life is too short to become expert on more than one or two pistols. And what works for me as a bullseye and long distance shooter probably won't work well for a run and gun shooter.
Thanks a bunch for your efforts.
Joe
Scarlett,
I just read this for the first time yesterday , great write up. Thanks for all your help with this platform.
I was playing with factory sear / hammer hooks by cutting the height and polishing and cutting a relief cut on the sear .
I could get the pull weight down to 1lbs 8 oz . with out any follows on quite a few rounds . But after a while the sear face began to deform and it turned loose. I'm sure others have run into that .
So my question is what are your thoughts on the need of an upgraded sear (all hard through - through tool steel) ?
Thanks , Kirk
Do you believe you can get just as good a trigger with the factory sear just polished and not cutting or changing the angle? This is with of course a race hammer or competition hammer .
I've been lurking on these forums for a few months now, but I made an account to thank you for doing all this work. Keep it up!Oh dang, thank you and you're welcome!
Absolutely! I do have one question, I get pretty consistent trigger bite on my CZ 75 BD using a CGW Race Hammer. How would you suggest I remedy this, altering the hammer or the grip tang? I apologize if this has been answered, and I'm considering sending it out to CGW for the grip tang and a bushing anyways. Appreciate it!I've been lurking on these forums for a few months now, but I made an account to thank you for doing all this work. Keep it up!Oh dang, thank you and you're welcome!
Welcome to forum! Don't be bashful to up your post counter!Thank you for the warm welcome! I won't be shy, although I could spend my first 100 posts just thanking the wonderful contributions that people have made on this forum.
Absolutely! I do have one question, I get pretty consistent trigger bite on my CZ 75 BD using a CGW Race Hammer. How would you suggest I remedy this, altering the hammer or the grip tang? I apologize if this has been answered, and I'm considering sending it out to CGW for the grip tang and a bushing anyways. Appreciate it!