The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roikyou on December 07, 2016, 10:42:38 AM
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I know I'm beating this subject with a stick, lots of contemplation and what to do. I've been through most types of pistols in the last six months, sticking to 9mm just cause I like to shoot and I like the cost. I've started with DA/SA Sig's, moved through Sig's, tried striker's, Glock's specifically, then M&P, moved through the Legion series, then CZ 75 TS from Automatic Accuracy.
So, enjoying the TS, thought I'd try other CZ's but it always seem to point back to DA/SA. Just never cared for DA pull, maybe never gave enough time, never got good with it. Gave the strikers another try, definitely better than what I was with them. Now I have a SP-01 Tactical and P-01, both decockers. I currently own Glock 43, Glock 19, Glock 34 and the CZ 75 TS (with 1# pull). So, keeping an open mind with the Glocks, you can see my pattern of liking no safety's (except the TS which that's just a range gun and you really need to pay attention with that gun)
So, here's where the subject comes in. I'm so on the fence about dealing with DA/SA, almost ready to say to heck with the SP-01 and P-01, work with the Glocks and TS, I enjoy shooting them. Save a lot of money, more money for ammo. To me, there's resemblance of the striker to the SAO, you don't have to deal with the heavy DA pull. I never use the safety with the TS, it's a range gun to me, it's pointed down range and fired, then unloaded, never carried.
If I did decide to give the DA/SA a chance, with the guns I have, trying one for now, thought about P-01 as it's lighter and a little more versatile.
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I mean you could always leave the gun with an empty chamber so when you chamber the gun, it is in SA. I don't think you should dismiss DA if you admit you never gave it enough time.
I've noticed HUGE improvements in my DA shooting from just dry firing at home. I also realized that the more I thought about the DA pull, usually the worse I shot. It really needs to be a subconscious trigger pull, no different than SA.
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The thing about DA is that one can always manually cock the hammer for SA. Or, with a safety version, keep it in condition 1. I like having more options.
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The thing about DA is that one can always manually cock the hammer for SA.
I carry the P01 with a cartridge in the barrel and decocked condition. If I ever (NEVER PLEASE) need to draw to defend myself or family, I hope I have time to manually cock as I shoot more accurately with the SA. The actual act of cocking the hammer...means I have the time to quickly reassess situation and surroundings one last time.
If I do not have that split second of time to cock the hammer....well, the DA pull will add just enough resistance to remind me that I am pulling a trigger. And my shot pattern with DA is only an inch or two from optimal at defensive distances. YMMV, but for me, this is my best carry condition.
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I carry my PCR, and 75B at the half cock notch so the DA is not as long as if the hammer was fully down. In fact, the PCR decocks to that point. I practice shooting the DA first shot from the draw at my range. It doesn't bother me transitioning from the DA first shot to the SA shots thereafter. Whatever you decide, just practice, and you will develop the muscle memory where it becomes automatic.
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you already figured out what you like or dont.
its your $$$, but to me youre just going over the same road and not getting anywhere.
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All it takes to shoot DA accurately is practice. If you're not prepared to do that, I see no point to carrying one. Carry a striker or SA pistol instead.
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Thank you everyone for the input. I'm going to Cajun the SP-01, work the DA. My thought, if you have a DA/SA, you need to get used to the DA. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing to learn all different trigger types and being versatile, which is the direction I'm heading. I made a joke the other day, the six guns I have, every 30 days, I stick with these and work with these guns, I should get a token.
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Buy a CZ P-10C, best of all the worlds you like.
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Thank you everyone for the input. I'm going to Cajun the SP-01, work the DA. My thought, if you have a DA/SA, you need to get used to the DA. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing to learn all different trigger types and being versatile, which is the direction I'm heading. I made a joke the other day, the six guns I have, every 30 days, I stick with these and work with these guns, I should get a token.
This will work great. All I did to get used to the DA trigger was some dry fire at home and then start a range session with 10 Da shots in a row from a draw or with the gun on the bench. I just got used to the idea that the first shot after picking up the gun was going to be DA. I think a couple of years of IDPA matches, starting with the gun in a holster hammer down in DA helped. I have left all the non-bullsye match guns as DA/SA because of the comfort level I have with it.
The P-10 may eventually become next year's option, without the strange grip angle and blocky grip shape of the Glock. That is the only striker fired gun I've ever even wanted to try other than a Kahr, whicih I like just fine because of the buttery smooth long striker trigger.
Joe
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I think a couple of years of IDPA matches, starting with the gun in a holster hammer down in DA helped. I have left all the non-bullsye match guns as DA/SA because of the comfort level I have with it.
I shot my CZ P09 in IDPA all last year and Joe is right, it helped tremendously with my DA/SA shooting
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I've been going through the same gyrations as you trying to decide on a platform. Tried revolvers (wish I had back all the SW 66s I sold over the years!), DA/SA (still have a PX4 Storm Compact, a nice gun, better than the full-size, IMO), SA (C. Daly Hi Power) and a Hi Power with the SFS system. Still own a Kahr CW 9 and CW 380, SW Shield (nice!), Ruger SR22, and a Glock 17.
As much as I like shooting the striker-fired guns, I have this mental block in my head against them given their relatively light trigger and no safety (my Shield has a safety, but as a lefty it isn't something I can actuate quickly). I know, I know - it's a training issue, finger off the trigger....Regardless, it bothers me.
I really liked the Hi-Power and decided to head back that SA direction. Just ordered a Sig 938 and am in search of a used MK 3 Hi Power or, preferably, a CZ 75 B SA. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...until I change my mind again.
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As a guy who trains regularly, with 1911's I carry, train and practice in condition one (cocked and locked). That being said, my CZ Compact double/single is converted to SAO. My wife and I both carry concealed and want our manual of arms to be identical for anything we carry. Our philosophy is that we want no confusion under stress so all of our firearms work the same way.
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Thank you everyone for the input. I'm going to Cajun the SP-01, work the DA. My thought, if you have a DA/SA, you need to get used to the DA. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing to learn all different trigger types and being versatile, which is the direction I'm heading. I made a joke the other day, the six guns I have, every 30 days, I stick with these and work with these guns, I should get a token.
It should take very little practice to become proficient with a cajunized da pull. More shooting less thinking.
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To get a better feel for the DA Trigger Pull of your Pistol, try practicing with a DA Revolver and keeping IT on Target
Trust me, you'll have a huge appreciation of the DA Trigger Pull on a CZ SP-01
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What hasn't been mentioned is not all DAs are long hard pulls.
With a little TLC my 75 Shadow ran well with a 5# (or slightly less) DA and 2.5/.6 # SA. I had to work to keep the SA weight UP. With the short reset disconnector this combination was not hard to shoot accurately in DA.
This also gave the three optional conditions. At half-cock it let you have a little more safety when shooting from the draw. I have never used the safety on this pistol, other than to test it after cleaning. It took me more time to disengage the safety and fire than shooting DA at a 10 yard head A-Zone shot and hit.
Just saying, if you get a chance to pull the trigger on a DA/SA 75 set up for comp., you might be happily surprised.
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What hasn't been mentioned is not all DAs are long hard pulls.
With a little TLC my 75 Shadow ran well with a 5# (or slightly less) DA and 2.5/.6 # SA. I had to work to keep the SA weight UP. With the short reset disconnector this combination was not hard to shoot accurately in DA.
This also gave the three optional conditions. At half-cock it let you have a little more safety when shooting from the draw. I have never used the safety on this pistol, other than to test it after cleaning. It took me more time to disengage the safety and fire than shooting DA at a 10 yard head A-Zone shot and hit.
Just saying, if you get a chance to pull the trigger on a DA/SA 75 set up for comp., you might be happily surprised.
1SOW is correct. The hammer spring in most DA/SA guns (and a few Ruger GP100 revolvers) is way stiffer than needed for good ammo even in a self defense gun. This spring can be lightened up and you can get a very tolerable DA pull and still maintain 100% reliability if you choose the ammo. A little dry fire once per week goes a long way.
Joe
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You know the funny thing is, I have yet to get the P-01 or SP-01 to a point where I can sit down and get some time in (I have a tendency of doing some kind of trigger package to lighten things up a bit). When I shoot the DA/SA, I don't shoot only the first shot as DA then the rest SA, every magazine, I decock, shoot the DA and then finish the magazine, rinse and repeat to get used to the DA. Sometimes I'll decock the whole magazine. Side note, I've recently got a G19 totally dialed in, put 500 rounds through and starting to get really comfortable with it. Another side note, put a few hundred through a G34, getting used to a light, single stack striker. The CZ TS, just downright easy to shoot. My point is, I like the idea of being able to pick up a pistol, any type pretty much and shooting it fairly well. I've learned a lot over the last six months and yes, changed a lot of pistols.
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I'm 43. I don't think I'm too old. I learned to shoot a handgun using a Ruger SP101 with a bobbed hammer. It was the most frustrating yet rewarding endeavors. Until I got it right, I stubbornly kept on practicing. I then switched to a Glock 19 Gen4. While the blocky odd grip was the primary challenge to shooting the Glock well, the trigger wasn't. After learning to shoot a DA revolver (no trigger mods), every other trigger is easy to shoot.
I then had hammer fire DA/SA guns. I spent a few years with just striker fire handguns. Then came SAO hammer fired 1911's. As soon as concealed carry was available in Illinois, I jumped through the hoops to get my CCP and started carrying that Glock 19 every day. I took classes with that Glock 19 and spent time drawing, live fire, then reholstering. Fast to draw. Slow to reholster. During the concealed carry journey my preferences evolved. Maybe they devolved. Today my primary carry is a DA/SA CZ 75D PCR. I have similar rationale as the video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP8F_cwotM8&t=296s
IMO, buy a revolver that isn't a snubby in a chambering that is compatible with .38 Special. Spend quality practice time shooting it DAO. Once you master that trigger, you won't have any issues with other trigger types. You also may find that your preferences evolve like mine have.
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I carry my cz-75 and my cz-83 cocked and locked, just like grandpappy taught me.
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I really never liked da/sa much either. I wasn't used to the trigger and going from a da to the sa pull was not natural. I went ahead and bought a 22 conversion of my sig m11a1 and practiced thousands and thousands or rounds from da to sa. If you have a legion sig that is one sweet trigger, da or sa. It just takes practice to get good.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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With the Cajun Gun Works short reset, and shorter trigger reach parts you can minimize the DA pull as it will be shorter, lighter, and smoother.
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One reason I like DA/SA pistols is the second strike capability - more efficient (faster) than racking the slide unless the ammo is so bad it won't ignite no matter what.