The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Cajun Gun Works => Topic started by: TNman on January 08, 2017, 12:35:38 PM
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I received part # 75585, 85C "Old Style" trigger from CGW for my CZ 75D Compact. I was able to remove the original trigger fairly easily. I am about to install the old style trigger and noticed two very tiny set screws in the package. I assume these are to adjust over travel but I cannot find any information regarding how to install the two screws or how to adjust them.
One screw is a tad longer than the other. I screwed in the shorter screw into the lower per-drilled and threaded hole but I have no idea what it is suppose to do or what I do with the other one. Hopefully someone will understand what I am trying to say and give me a tip on how to proceed. - Thanks
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/embed/slideshow/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact"></iframe>
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https://youtu.be/9OBeNGPdECE
Does this help?
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The video does kind of help but My 75 BD does not seem to have the same set up at the SP-01. The video speaks to screws around the hammer area and I thought they went into the 85C trigger face. But I could be confused.
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Oh I was referencing the screw holes in the trigger, sorry I wasn't clear.
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Me too. The trigger face has two pre-drilled threaded holes near the top of the trigger face. the very top hole I left empty. The other one, as shown in the earlier photo is where I screwed in the longer set screw. I have now also screwed in the shorter screw into the top hole on the trigger face. I guess I am now ready to just put the trigger back in the pistol and I'm done?
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170108_125334638_zps1vbcgusk.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170108_125334638_zps1vbcgusk.jpg.html)
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STOP! Your screws are in backwards.
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Double check all your paperwork that came with your package. CGW usually sends instructions on setting the screws.
Yes, short screw in top, long screw in bottom. But you need to be able to get at them for adjusting.
I'll look thru my stuff and see if I still have the paperwork.
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For sure the bottom setscrew is in backwards. You want to be able to adjust the bottom screw with a small hex key wrench when the trigger is installed. You adjust the screw to minimize the over travel of the trigger.
I don't own a trigger with the pre travel adjustment (upper set screw) so I can't comment on that install.
I'd suggest you give cgw a call and have them walk you through the install.
You can also just remove both and not have any trigger constraints. One risk is if these move it could render the firearm inoperable.
Cheers,
Toby
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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Do you have the Reach reduction, or just the trigger?
If just the trigger, you don't use the top screw, as that is the pre-travel screw for use with the RRK.
Sorry, can't find my paperwork[emoji17]
As Tdogg said, just remove both screws until you can contact CGW. Both screws go in from the face side of the trigger. You won't have to remove the trigger again to reinstall.
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The overtravel screw (O.S.)needs to allow adjustment when the trigger is to the rear
The upper reset screw (R.S.). Needs to allow adj. when the trigger is forward.
These adjustments "need" a little slack in the adjustments.
O.T.: my method, screw in the adj screw until the trigger won't drop the hammer. back the screw out until it will just drop the hammer. The add a full turn or more adjustment out, so it will reliably drop the hammer clean or dirty. Don't set it too close or "Murphy" will happen.
R.S.:for the reset adj. Screw, adj. the screw IN until the hammer won't reset and then back it out until it just resets. Then I add another full turn or more for insurance.
Many adjust these screws too close and have the trigger occasionally fail to reset when released forward or fail to drop the hammer when pulled to the rear.
Just my practices
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The overtravel screw (O.S.)needs to allow adjustment when the trigger is to the rear
The upper reset screw (R.S.). Needs to allow adj. when the trigger is forward.
These adjustments "need" a little slack in the adjustments.
O.T.: my method, screw in the adj screw until the trigger won't drop the hammer. back the screw out until it will just drop the hammer. The add a full turn or more adjustment out, so it will reliably drop the hammer clean or dirty. Don't set it too close or "Murphy" will happen.
R.S.:for the reset adj. Screw, adj. the screw IN until the hammer won't reset and then back it out until it just resets. Then I add another full turn or more for insurance.
Many adjust these screws too close and have the trigger occasionally fail to reset when released forward or fail to drop the hammer when pulled to the rear.
Just my practices
And CGW instructs to apply Locktite (Red, I think) to the screw threads to maintain their position...
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Red is permanent.
Your decision.
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Instructions indicate:
Top screw = red loctite
Bottom screw = blue
We don't send instructions with the 75585 by itself. We do for all the pre-packaged kits.
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Thanks for clearing that up Schmeky.
Am I correct in that the Pre travel (top) screw is only usable with the modified RRK disco?
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cntrydawwg,
Yes sir, you are correct.
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Thanks. Wanted to make sure I was giving out correct info[emoji6]
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Like Cntry, thank you for the info..
I'm not a big fan of of the OT screw having seen a several instances of problems when it was set significantly close to the hammer drop.
My reset does have some excess travel, but I use FEEL and ride the reset thanks to the great reset feel with the CGW action parts.
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Thanks everyone. All of your advice is helpful. I now have one last question. I am having difficulty inserting the trigger return spring. The first time I installed it the trigger would not return to the forward position so I knew I did it wrong. But now I am not clear on where the short end of the return spring actually goes (see yellow arrow). Attached are two photos (not mine) I found on the Internet that may help clarify my question. Your guidance is appreciated.
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/trigger%20return%20spring_LI_zpsfxmagq5k.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/trigger%20return%20spring_LI_zpsfxmagq5k.jpg.html)
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/TriggerReturnSpring_question__zps9lz3e5n8.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/TriggerReturnSpring_question__zps9lz3e5n8.jpg.html)
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Do you have the Reach reduction, or just the trigger?
If just the trigger, you don't use the top screw, as that is the pre-travel screw for use with the RRK.
Sorry, can't find my paperwork[emoji17]
As Tdogg said, just remove both screws until you can contact CGW. Both screws go in from the face side of the trigger. You won't have to remove the trigger again to reinstall.
I only have the trigger. Not the complete reach reduction kit.
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cntrydawwg,
Yes sir, you are correct.
So am I not suppose to use the top screw even though it was included in the package? I knew I should have just sent this to CGW in the first place.
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Thanks everyone. All of your advice is helpful. I now have one last question. I am having difficulty inserting the trigger return spring. The first time I installed it the trigger would not return to the forward position so I knew I did it wrong. But now I am not clear on where the short end of the return spring actually goes (see yellow arrow). Attached are two photos (not mine) I found on the Internet that may help clarify my question. Your guidance is appreciated.
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/trigger%20return%20spring_LI_zpsfxmagq5k.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/trigger%20return%20spring_LI_zpsfxmagq5k.jpg.html)
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/TriggerReturnSpring_question__zps9lz3e5n8.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/TriggerReturnSpring_question__zps9lz3e5n8.jpg.html)
IIRC, the short end goes in the groove on the frame, long end in the trigger. Yes you have to force it by pushing down on the TRS.
Side note::: Do Not use bare pliers. Any scratch or nick in the TRS may shorten the life of the spring.
I use needle nose pliers with electrical tape wrapped around the jaws. This avoids any damage.
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TNman,
Don't despair. We make a lot of products and many overlap. This keeps costs reasonable.
If you call us for tech support, we'll be more than happy to keep your project on track. Plus the regulars on this forum typically know as much as we do and will provide you with good answers as well. Great forum, great members, you found the right place.
318-372-9050
318-614-7003
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TNman,
Don't despair. We make a lot of products and many overlap. This keeps costs reasonable.
If you call us for tech support, we'll be more than happy to keep your project on track. Plus the regulars on this forum typically know as much as we do and will provide you with good answers as well. Great forum, great members, you found the right place.
318-372-9050
318-614-7003
Thank you.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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This post is a little off topic, but when I installed the Pro kit in my P01, I had noticed the increased angle needed to move the set screws in and out. I purchased from Amazon a set of long metric ball end hex wrenches. (You actually only need one of the smaller ones, but you have to buy the set) They have the ability to be used in an offset angle of a maximum of 25 degrees similar to what you have on the trigger guard when adjusting the set screw in and out. It was a Tekton 25272 for $11.81.
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PROJECT DONE !!!!
Holy Cow! It's finally back together. Yes - the screws were in backwards and YES - when just installing the Old Style trigger you only use the bottom over travel screw and NOT the top screw. I confirmed that with the gunsmiths at CGW, and YES - I had to take the trigger return spring off 3 times to get it all right. I also spent a little time polishing the feed ramp and some of the internals. Bottom line I ended up with about a 8.5 lbs. DA and 3.5 - 4 lbs SA. But with the work I did the trigger pull is soooo smooth as compared to the out-of-the-box trigger.
TIP - someone may have mentioned this before but the only way I could get the trigger return spring back in place and lined up so the trigger pin would seat properly was to use the tiny piece of wood (see photo) I cut down to hold the return spring in the trigger then use the trigger pin to drive out the wood so the spring stayed put. Strange but it worked. It's actually a wooden Q-Tip stem cut down.
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_114239804_zpsliku4t8j.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_114239804_zpsliku4t8j.jpg.html)
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_180528049_zpsixutb1kb.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_180528049_zpsixutb1kb.jpg.html)
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_180753889_zpsz6jpfh9n.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_180753889_zpsz6jpfh9n.jpg.html)
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PROJECT DONE !!!!
Holy Cow! It's finally back together. Yes - the screws were in backwards and YES - when just installing the Old Style trigger you only use the bottom over travel screw and NOT the top screw. I confirmed that with the gunsmiths at CGW, and YES - I had to take the trigger return spring off 3 times to get it all right. I also spent a little time polishing the feed ramp and some of the internals. Bottom line I ended up with about a 8.5 lbs. DA and 3.5 - 4 lbs SA. But with the work I did the trigger pull is soooo smooth as compared to the out-of-the-box trigger.
TIP - someone may have mentioned this before but the only way I could get the trigger return spring back in place and lined up so the trigger pin would seat properly was to use the tiny piece of wood (see photo) I cut down to hold the return spring in the trigger then use the trigger pin to drive out the wood so the spring stayed put. Strange but it worked. It's actually a wooden Q-Tip stem cut down.
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_114239804_zpsliku4t8j.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_114239804_zpsliku4t8j.jpg.html)
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_180528049_zpsixutb1kb.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_180528049_zpsixutb1kb.jpg.html)
(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/2garymoore/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_180753889_zpsz6jpfh9n.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/2garymoore/media/CZ%2075%20BD%20Compact/IMG_20170110_180753889_zpsz6jpfh9n.jpg.html)
Nicely done! I remember working on my first CZ and the learning curve, it was tricky. Totally worth it once everything is done and you now know how to work on your pistol. Congratulations!
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Nicely done!
Next time you place an order with CGW add a floating trigger pin to the order. It makes pulling the trigger for future work much easier as you don't have to restake the trigger pin in place. It also comes with a slave pin (similar to your qtip) that (as you have experienced) will facilitate quick easy trigger installs.
Did you set the overtravel setcrew and loctite it in place? If you rewatch that video that was posted it will make more sense now.
You want to make sure that the overtravel screw isn't so tight (limiting the rearward travel of the trigger) that the sear makes contact with the hammer hooks (when the trigger is fully depressed as you thumb the hammer from cocked to decocked). Watch the hammer hooks closely and feel the motion of the hammer carefully to see if there is any rubbing/contact. If so, you will need to loosen the trigger overtravel set screw a half a turn and check again. I'd recommend you perform this procedure before adding any loctite just to fully understand the process. Once comfortable degrease the trigger and set screw and apply medium strength loctite and repeat the process. Let the loctite dry overnight to ensure the set screw doesn't walk before use.
I'd also add the sear to hammer clearance inspection procedure to the general inspection process when cleaning the gun. That way you will keep tabs on that setscrew and could make adjustments as needed (in the comfort of your home workspace and not at the range or worse yet...).
Cheers,
Toby
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Nicely done!
Next time you place an order with CGW add a floating trigger pin to the order. It makes pulling the trigger for future work much easier as you don't have to restake the trigger pin in place. It also comes with a slave pin (similar to your qtip) that (as you have experienced) will facilitate quick easy trigger installs.
Did you set the overtravel setcrew and loctite it in place? If you rewatch that video that was posted it will make more sense now.
You want to make sure that the overtravel screw isn't so tight (limiting the rearward travel of the trigger) that the sear makes contact with the hammer hooks (when the trigger is fully depressed as you thumb the hammer from cocked to decocked). Watch the hammer hooks closely and feel the motion of the hammer carefully to see if there is any rubbing/contact. If so, you will need to loosen the trigger overtravel set screw a half a turn and check again. I'd recommend you perform this procedure before adding any loctite just to fully understand the process. Once comfortable degrease the trigger and set screw and apply medium strength loctite and repeat the process. Let the loctite dry overnight to ensure the set screw doesn't walk before use.
I'd also add the sear to hammer clearance inspection procedure to the general inspection process when cleaning the gun. That way you will keep tabs on that setscrew and could make adjustments as needed (in the comfort of your home workspace and not at the range or worse yet...).
Cheers,
Toby
Thanks Toby. I did set the over travel screw with blue loc-tite. I went to the range today and had them use a Lyman trigger pull gauge. DA is 9.25 avg and SA is 3.5 consistently.
I did not know I should have replaced the stock trigger pin so I found it walking out when firing. A new on will be installed.
This had been a real learning experience and unfortunately I scratched the polycoating when the punch slipped. David said because it scratched down to the metal it would be about $75 to repair. Sometimes life's little lessons are expensive but I really like my CZ.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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I wouldn't sweat the scratch. Wait until you have a lot more wear and tear before having anything refinished. Just keep it oiled and it will be fine.
The cgw floating trigger pin is on my must have list for any upgrade work.
Cheers,
Toby
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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tdogg +1
Keep it lightly oiled and do your best to wear it out (good luck :)).
Your stock trigger pin just needs to be opened up on the small end with a punch to hold it in place.
I still recommend either the CGW floating pin or the CZCustom shop solid pin that doesn't require staking. It has an oversized end and the small end is designed to be press it. Both work very well and make it much easier the next time. O0
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+1 Tdogg and 1SOW.
Glad you got her up and running TNman.