The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZ Center fire Rifles => Topic started by: SteelHorseCowboy on February 05, 2017, 07:15:01 PM
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I put this little gem on layaway yesterday. All I really knew about it is, CZ has some nice firearms that folks love, this scope is kinda legendary, and it's the same caliber as my AK, 7.62X39.
I don't really wanna beat brush in the Louisiana bayous with a 30 round AK mag sticking out, and I'd love to get back into hunting.
This beauty was screaming "BUY ME! BUY ME NOW!". So I did the next best thing my pocket book would allow by doing the layaway.
Anyway. Can't wait to pick it up and shoot it.
But, does anyone know where I can find a new rear sight and front sight hood? I do intend to use the scope, but I can't stand to see parts missing from one of my rifles. I'm a Marine Rifleman vet, and I'm kinda anal about my boomsticks. I've looked around. Found a rear sight priced in Euros on some site, no luck on the hood.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170206/3d9ba6fbc7e6417fbef6a0a670e49089.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170206/080826d322fe963082a8d4803b49b6a4.jpg)
Leupold Vari-X III, 3.5X10
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http://shop.cz-usa.com/SearchByKeyword?word=rear%20sight%20527
http://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/5110011101_Front-Sight-Hood-452527550
Both available from CZ USA in Kansas City, fairly inexpensive too. I assume those different rear sight blades vary in height, so you might have to call to see which one is the best fit for the 7.62x39 carbine. I like that scope too, but from what I see in the photo it & the rear sight blade may not be able to coexist on the rifle, don't think the sight blade will fit under the objective as it's currently mounted. Worth a try though, & at least you'd have the blade on hand should you ever want to use the irons.
Have that gun myself, hope you like yours as much as I like mine!
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I had to have a gunsmith install a customized Marbles folding adjustable rear sight to get my scope bell to clear, best move I ever made. I don't think anyone makes them specifically for the CZ rifles, unfortunately. The hood should be available at CZ-USA.
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Thank y'all! No idea why I couldn't get that in a google search.
As far as it clearing the scope bell, whoever mounted it apparently has a cheek weld much further forward than I do. When I throw it to my natural cheek weld, I can't see JACK through it, have to choke up to the receiver, feeling like I'm stretching my neck like a giraffe. So the scope is gonna have to come to the rear a bit. It may clear the rear sight once I do that. If it doesn't then I'll be checking into a folding sight like armoredman's talking about.
I'm sure I'm going to love it, it suits my needs pretty perfectly. Compact size, lightweight, shoots the same ammo I already stock.
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Happy to help!
Looks like you'll be in good shape once you move the scope back to your liking.
Notice that a LOT on used rifles already paired with a scope at one of the local fun stores; find myself wondering how the heck the old owner could crawl his/her cheek far enough up the stock to see through it. Reckon most of them were never shot much away from the bench & bags.
Then again, I ain't got much neck :)
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I think a lot of folks just don't know how to do half the stuff they THINK they can. Mounting a scope seems simple enough, right? But one thing I noticed right away...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170206/f7898824a0573005b975e7c6c23cc451.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170206/f9d3e06a0a925c037a019e761ff4ddbf.jpg)
The rings are tightened down all the way on one side, and as tight as the previous owner could manage on the other. Then it looks as if the scope's position was adjusted while the rings were too tight, scarring up the finish on the tube.
I worry there could be some damage to the scope other than the finish. I'll know when I remount it and try to zero it.
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It's usually a bad idea to post a clear picture of your gun's serial number to the Internet.
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It's usually a bad idea to post a clear picture of your gun's serial number to the Internet.
Yeah, that's what folks say. The highly subjective key word there is "usually". I wouldn't do it without thinking twice about it. In this particular instance with this particular firearm, there are numerous reasons I'm not the least bit concerned about it.
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Just picked it up! Not going to mess with the scope just yet, the screw heads are buggered pretty bad. I can restore screw heads, but these are worse than the picture implies.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170217/3ccfb9c521ee1945f26e04388722aca6.jpg)
I may have some extra screws in my electronics parts buckets that'll fit.
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pm me your address and I will send you the hood I took off mine.
I didn't like the hood on with my scope.
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pm me your address and I will send you the hood I took off mine.
I didn't like the hood on with my scope.
Sure thing, thanks a ton!
I did manage to find some screws in my can o' screws that are a perfect fit for the scope rings and pulled the scope back just a tad when I replaced them. I think I have just enough clearance to install a rear sight now, so I'll be getting one of those ordered soon. They're star key screws. I keep a screw driver set in my range bags and it has a tip of the right size.
I'm having a mag issue. Very, very hard to seat the rounds to the rear of the mag. Ridiculously difficult. I can load three rounds on average, sometimes 4 if I'm lucky, managed to load 5 a few times. It does make a big difference between using the lacquer coated steel cased ammo and the brass cased stuff. The brass loads a bit easier, but I still had a lot of trouble loading 5. Ended up just sticking with 4 rounds in the mag.
But something that seems strange to me about it is, when cycling the bolt, the front of the rounds try to jump up when I pull the bolt rearward, which doesn't allow the bolt to catch the next round. I had to make a routine of pulling the bolt to the rear, then poke down on the front of the next round with my finger, then pushing the bolt forward. Also, the front of the follower tried to jump out numerous times when loading the first round.
Anyone have any advice on this? The magazine is assembled as shown in this diagram:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/de3dd45992d2036c01278b3275e4a304.jpg)
Overall, had a good range trip yesterday and have fallen in love with this little rifle!
Here's a 100 yard target, sandbag rest. One of the rare occasions I managed to get 5 steel cased rounds into the mag. Just so happened to be right as I'd gotten familiar with the rifle and the scope zeroed in as well as I felt I could get it at the moment.
I was going for a 5 shot group at the center bull, but threw that flyer to the right. I had the audacity to barely touch that set trigger before I'd lined up the shot, setting off a string of profanity. I felt I was doing pretty good at that distance with that ammo, so I switched to the brass cased Federal American Eagle I picked up on the way to the range and shot that group to the lower right.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/bf5fd3843bcf0a0690f30e597a2834c4.jpg)
I believe I can tighten it up more. I rarely practice real marksmanship with a rifle these days, mostly I stick to my handguns. Actually, I haven't really sat down and shot at 100 yards in a few years. I managed to get a few more 1" groups, but after a while my shoulder began to get tired and the barrel was getting warm and dirty, so I knocked off when they started to open back up. Fired a total of 75 rounds.
I'll try out some Federal Fusion, Winchester soft point, and Geco soft point on my next range trip, try to tighten those groups and move them a touch to the right, then see what happens at 200 yards. That's the max at my range and double the max distance I expect to actually shoot in the field around here.
Side note: my 19 year old stepson has NEVER attempted any sort of marksmanship shooting. Just casual plinking with my AK and the S&W 642 I gave him last year.
I explained the magazine issue to him and left him alone while I took my youngest over to the rimfire side with his 22. When I came back, I found he'd embarrassed the hell out of the gamer boys shooting "patterns" with their scoped ARs at 25 and 50 yards. Made one of them mad, accused him of being a professional and showing off, trying to make him look bad in front of his girlfriend.
His response? "You think my 4" groups make you look bad? You should have been here when my dad was shooting." That guy in particular was lucky to hit the range's pie targets at 50 yards. I'm highly disappointed in some young folks' idea of "accuracy" these days. I started the day next to an old man putting a 8" groups on paper at 200 yards with a beat up old M1 carbine, with irons.
TL:DR, good range trip, had some mag trouble.
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You might try disassembling your magazine to verify the follower and spring are oriented as in the photo, and neither leg of the follower is bent excessively.
You can 'tune' a magazine by bending the rear, or longer, leg slightly. Bending it out towards the mag body will lower the tip of the bullet.
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I disassembled it to make sure. I'll post up a pic in a little while of how I have it assembled and how my spring looks and is oriented. Maybe that'll help you help me, I really appreciate it.
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The spring does have a strange bend on one end of it. Since I've never seen such a thing before, and above was the best pic I've found, I tried swapping ends back and forth but settled on putting it towards the bottom of the mag.
Maybe it was done by the previous owner trying to compensate for a weak mag spring?
I also have a youtube account, I'll try to get a video of how the follower is behaving. It'll help if I can find some loose ammo in my car...
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Here's a video that I hope helps to explain what's going on. Apologies for my shaking hands, been busy and not able to get lunch yet.
https://youtu.be/TQBp_d6E024
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Here's a pic of my mag parts...I couldn't tell in your vid if the spring has loops on both ends or not.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2510/33019561805_93af82b5c1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SiPTkK)
My follower will rise at the front, but not like yours.
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Great little rifle. Does that 3.5-10 seem a little big on it to you? If you are using it for short distances or a woods gun a smaller scope may make it handle and balance better. I had a 2-7x33 on mine a while, but just switched to a 1.75-6x32 VX3i. With a smaller objective lens you might be able to mount it lower and get a better check weld. Enjoy it but be careful. The CZ rifles tend to multiply in safes.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Here's a pic of my mag parts...I couldn't tell in your vid if the spring has loops on both ends or not.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2510/33019561805_93af82b5c1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SiPTkK)
My follower will rise at the front, but not like yours.
Edited: yours looks like it has a slight bend to both ends, mine does not. From 0:48-1:08 Where I'm showing the spring, I point out the end under the follower first, then the end with the little crook to it. I'll post up some pics, gimme 5 minutes or so.
Great little rifle. Does that 3.5-10 seem a little big on it to you? If you are using it for short distances or a woods gun a smaller scope may make it handle and balance better. I had a 2-7x33 on mine a while, but just switched to a 1.75-6x32 VX3i. With a smaller objective lens you might be able to mount it lower and get a better check weld. Enjoy it but be careful. The CZ rifles tend to multiply in safes.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yeah, it seems a bit much, but I like it. With the power set around 6X or so, it works great for me. A bit more magnification than the 4X scopes I have, one a cheapo Simmons on my Marlin 60 and the other a Weaver Classic 400 I found in a junk store for $10. The Weaver isn't mounted to anything yet. I'm going to swap it with the Simmons on my 22 to check it out. I'll keep whichever I like better and pass the other to my youngest for his 22. I do know that neither of them belong on this rifle.
When I crank this Leupold up to 10.5, I can see the individual bullet strikes very clearly. That's nice, I don't have to set the rifle down and go stand in the (short) line behind the range's spotting scopes. It's just frustrating to me trying to shoot with that much magnification because the picture seems too shaky. My heartbeat made it look like there was an earthquake going on downrange, and heaven forbid I actually have to make an adjustment to my position and then find my target again!
I hope they do multiply! I'd like to have one of these sweet little carbines for each member of the family!
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Here we go.
In order exactly as it's assembled
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/1a0f9c87d1390d6d3879916a0ac3fc4b.jpg)
Two pics of the follower end
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/56cc926fff79bbd318db58e781037795.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/925a6a7a0439b24d3edf695c3c14951b.jpg)
Two of the floor plate end
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/5f1eedb4757c1bf4aa5aab224051df85.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/34bb657f9b2885c2550aa7d230fc0f22.jpg)
I hope that helps.
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Painter, yours also kinda looks like a different type of steel to me. Seems brighter.
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My spring is very different from yours. My rifle dates back to '04-'05...I don't remember. Besides being shinier, it looks like the wire is heavier gauge and there are fewer coils. Like you say, mine is bent at both ends.
It appears you have the spring installed as pictured in the online manual...but it isn't working.
If I were you I'd flip the spring front to back so the spring contacts the back of the follower and see what happens.
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Of all things I was sitting here writing my girlfriend a freaking love letter. Yeah, sometimes I'm sappy like that, she's a special lady. Yesterday was her birthday, and going to the range was her request. Thinking of that while writing this letter made my mind wander back to this issue.
And the whole reason I logged back on just now (I finished the letter first), is because that exact same thing just clicked in my head.
I'm at the house now and happen to have some loose rounds sitting on my desk. I'm going to tinker and experiment a bit, go every which way I can with this spring and see if I can resolve this issue.
Reckon there's a chance the previous owner may have stuck a spring in from something else?
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Well, no dice. The way the follower is shaped, the spring won't fit backwards.
I tried swapping ends around, put the bent end under the follower. That made the issue much worse, the follower actually flew out of the mag when I tried to load the first round and if the spring hadn't hung on the feed lips it might have slapped me in the face.
Then I pulled the spring out, gave it a good stretch, and put it back in the way it was before, with the straight end under the follower. That did make the spring feel more substantial, obviously, but did nothing for the tilting follower.
Frustrating.
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My 527 had all kinds of feeding problems from new.... Turned out to be the magazine that came with the gun. I bought a replacement magazine, which cured the feeding problems. They were both CZ factory mags but the springs were very different. All of the other parts seemed identical. All of my shooting stuff is packed up for a move, otherwise I would take the bad mag apart to compare with your pics. I meant to send it back to CZ to see if they would replace it, but have never gotten around to it. I bought another replacement mag, so at least I now have 2 working mags. It's too bad the 527s have so many annoying issues since they are nice rifles otherwise.
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Here's a visual on what's happening inside the mag while loaded.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/d0b8ffaf6cb8ec3437f3c5bfb66ffbfd.jpg)
I think the biggest issue is, this straight walled box mag is just a poor application for this cartridge. The taper between the base and shoulder of the casing is far more pronounced than most other centerfire cartridges, such as .223, .308, .30-06 and such.
A .223/5.56 can reliably feed from a straight 20 round box magazine, as well as the other two American cartridges I mentioned.
But, after about 3 hours of googling last night, I'm getting the impression that CZ may be the only ones in the world who make a straight mag for this round, even in the lowest capacities and single stack.
This problem seems to be fixable with different springs, that seems to be the only difference I've found between the ones that work and the ones that don't, but I think the root issue here is that this round just needs a curved magazine. The bases of the rounds should be flat against the rear of the magazine, and the follower should be riding straight at any given point within the magazine. That's a bit impossible for a straight box with the way the 7.62x39 is designed.
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Y'all gonna learn something bout me. I'm a tinkerer. I'll forgo "just go buy" a $2 part and instead spend hours of free time experimenting on things. Because I want to KNOW, I want to DO. What satisfaction is there in just buying something? To top that off, I'm picky as hell. Creating or modifying satisfies me more than buying and tolerating.
Paper mockup of a possible follower fab, in relation to 5 rounds, and oh my... how bout that groove in the mag body? That could be useful!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/9c46e38a85b9ba6d8f42e63eb8c33ce3.jpg)
I have a new project! Woohoo! Good thing too, I was starting to get bored!
I'm also keeping in the back of my mind... 10 round, single stack AK mags. Polymer will be easier to modify. This tickles regions of my mind.
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Made an experimental follower out of... a lard bucket. Yes, lard bucket.
No it didn't work. But it wasn't intended to, it provided the feedback I need to take another step.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/d364b990aeb682540f20d3cc80611537.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/468d31916f9fc85d4ce5d4ef6cf6d8c2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/f22fe13acd36cb120fe9453c51046826.jpg)
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Lol... I screwed up.
Decided to put the toys away and get some of the work done that I actually get paid for. Dropped the factory follower and then stepped on it when I turned around to see where it bounced off to.
It's alright though. I have a follower I've made out of aluminum. Needs quite a bit more tuning but I should be able to get it up and running this evening, and was planning on having 2-3 mags on hand anyway.
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My buddy LAGS did his creative thing with two old 527M mag bodies and built me the only 10 round mag for this little rifle. It's UGLY...but it's a prototype that works 100% of the time. He said he's going to build a real curved mag for either 15 or 20 rounds, waiting to see.
Methinks your feed lips are too wide, might need a squeeze - the follower should never jump out, no matter what the spring is doing. Also, CZ does carry these magazines in stock - I have several, because I like extra loaded mags if I am out hunting, etc.
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You may have a point there with the feed lips.
Speaking of higher cap mags, I'm considering trying to modify a single stack AK mag to fit it. I've never actually even seen one in real life though, but they're only about $10 or so, usually a bit less. It's worth the try!
I also figure if it were easy, someone else woulda done it by now. So, we'll see.
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That was one he was going to try, but the space is very narrow, so IIRC, he couldn't get that one to work right. Now an adapter kit to fit....
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It is some tight space for sure. Do you recall whether he tried polymer or steel?
I wish there were x39 guns that use mags a bit more similar.
I did just look at the feed lips and you were right. Only about the rear third of the lips were even in contact with the cartridges. That perfectly explains the failures to feed and the follower jumping out while I was fooling around with it. Now to work out why it's so hard to depress the rear of the cartridges while loading it.
Or I may hang it up. I was already planning on ordering at least two more. I'm going to do that and order a single stack AK mag to tinker with, and I might just turn this mag into a bob sled. I'll wait until after I try to modify the AK mag, because if that doesn't work I'll play around with just the follower. I looked at the followers from my magpul double stacks, and I think I could easily get those to work but I'm not going to try. I'd rather experiment on something I don't mind throwing away.
Right now, the mag seems to work better with my home made follower and pinching the feed lips, but I'm still fighting to get more than three rounds in.
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The inside walls of the mag are smooth, no rough spots? Wonder if it narrows down as you go down for some reason. I have a Masuer that doesn't like more than 4 in the mag, but it's been converted so many times it has the right to complain.
He's using steel, to the best of my knowledge - he's a very old school guy, works with wood and steel exclusively.
If you get that single stack to work, you might work with Manticore or someone similar to make a conversion kit, might sell. I'd probably buy one or two. ;)
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The inside of the mag body seems perfect. My follower does like to snag on the whatchamacallits. The little cut outs that seat against the bottom of the mag well? I can work that out, but I'm not sure I'm going to bother. There's a sharp corner on my homemade follower.
I have no clue why I can't easily load more than 3.
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Well, it took a bit longer than expected, but I finally received my two new mags. Both function just fine out of the box, but I only cycled 5 rounds from each one without firing. I expect they'll be fine.
The followers still like to tip a bit, but nothing like the one I got with the rifle, which had that broken follower.
Speaking of, I just turned it into a "bob sled" single shot mag. Didn't get much time to fiddle with it before my next range trip, so I had to do something.
I disassembled the mag, no floorplate, no spring or follower. Turned it upside down and dropped in a round and then the follower. Then I gently clamped it in a vise. The object being to simply hold the mag upside down with the round resting on the feed lips and the follower resting on the round. Then, with the mag upside down, I carefully filled in between the mag walls and my cheesy homemade follower with rubber cement. Would have used JB Weld or something else, but rubber cement was the best I had.
I let it cure over night. Next morning I was able to slip out that round, and then I ground the feed lips off so that they wouldn't interfere with dropping one round on top of it at a time. Smoothed the edges down, and it was good to go.
It's a cheap, nasty looking piece of redneck engineering, but it functions exactly as intended.
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Oh, quick question:
Has anyone ever had any trouble with these mags that they suspect could be related to leaving them loaded?
I'm from the "leave 'em loaded" camp personally. Have never had a problem with it. The idea that metal fatigue comes from working metal back and forth just seems like a sound theory to me. I thought about it this way: if I took a piece of straight wire, bend it in half, then straighten it right away, it'll take just as much effort to bend it again right away, as it would to bend it again a year from now.
Just figured I'd ask for future reference, it seems many guns have certain quirks and differences. They'll most likely be left unloaded since it's not intended for home defense and my fugly bob sled seems easier to use on the range.
Actually, this is the only mag I've ever had a problem with from any mag fed firearm I've owned or ever used.
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I've never had a problem with magazines for my 223 or 7.62x39 527 carbines. I normally carry a spare loaded mag in my jacket or cargo pants pocket when I'm out woods walking. I often forget to unload the spare mag for weeks at a time. I do make a point to clean and oil all my rifle mags at least once every couple of months.
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Yeah, I clean and oil mine regularly too. Some folks start screaming about blasphemy if you oil your mags, say it's going to ruin the primers in the ammo. It's not like I dunk 'em in motor oil and then load them up while they're still dripping. In my area I have to protect carbon steel against rust, and as much as many mags cost, I can't afford to slack on that. These 2 mags cost me a full day's wages before taxes, plus some change. I'm not running them bone dry like some folks scream is the only way on earth to do it. Oh man, I was the subject of a hard core flame fest a while back over this subject. Those folks should try living in a hot and humid swamp before telling me I'm going to hell for leaving a light film of oil on my mags with a rag.
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I don't leave much oil on the inside of my mags, but use a CLP type of product and wipe the excess off. I get more liberal with the exterior because skin oils will cause rust in any climate.
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Exactly how I do it, except on occasion I just use an oily rag. Depends on how dirty they are.
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Not as much of an issue in bolt action rifles. Pistol mags will get dirty faster if they're oily, especially rimfire. One member here uses paste wax.
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I haven't had an issue with it. And the only 22 pistol we have is my son's P22, stays surprisingly clean for a .22.
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I've lost my freaking mags! Haha!
I can laugh about it because I know they're somewhere in the house.
Went to the range yesterday and was going to try them out under live fire conditions. Don't expect them to operate any differently that dry cycling, but you never know.
Couldn't find 'em! Was in a bit of a rush to go hit the fishing hole before heading to the range, so I didn't look every where. To show how worried I am about it, I haven't looked for them since then either! Really, they 'round here some place...
Ugh. Might as well get to it. Ain't got nothin else to do at the moment.
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Find 'em yet?
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Heck no, no more than ten minutes after I posted this last night I started throwing up. Looks like whatever's been kicking my stepdaughter's butt finally got around to me. It's been about all I can manage today just to get out of bed, feed myself, and take a shower. Glad I've got plenty of sick days saved up at work.
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I searched high and low. Rifle case. Was going to store them there with the rifle. Decided not to because I was afraid they'd mar the almost pristine stock, but I thought maybe I wedged them under the padding... but nope, not there.
Little range bag that I use for the rifle side of the range. Nope.
Big bag that we use on the pistol side. Nope.
Gun station (meaning my desk), nope.
Floor under the desk, trunk of the car, cabin of the car, bedroom, all gun cases, all ammo cases, the toolbox with my reloading stuff in it, screw it I checked the toolboxes with my mechanic tools, filing cabinet, under my bed, linen closet, silverware drawer cause you just never know. THEY JUST UP AND DISAPPEARED. Even walked around the yard with a big magnet on a stick.
Asked my girlfriend if she'd look for me. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes means all the difference.
She grabbed my big range bag, opened the magazine pocket, and just so happened to find the hidden pocket I'd completely forgotten about. There they were. Took her about 3-4 seconds.
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;D 8)
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Where can I get these wider coil magazine springs? I have one magazine with this spring vs the narrower ones in the other pictures. The magazine with the wider spring feeds the PPU round nose perfectly vs the narrower ones do not. Any pointers appreciated.
Here we go.
In order exactly as it's assembled
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/1a0f9c87d1390d6d3879916a0ac3fc4b.jpg)
Two pics of the follower end
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/56cc926fff79bbd318db58e781037795.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/925a6a7a0439b24d3edf695c3c14951b.jpg)
Two of the floor plate end
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/5f1eedb4757c1bf4aa5aab224051df85.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/34bb657f9b2885c2550aa7d230fc0f22.jpg)
I hope that helps.
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A number of years ago I went looking for a five round magazine spring for a CZ 527 in 223 Remington. The only place that I came up with were off the internet out of Europe and either Australia or New Zealand. I haven't looked lately but at the time CZ-USA didn't carry just the 527 magazine springs. I'm not sure what the current spring configuration is available.