The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: CZ Aficionado on February 15, 2017, 09:15:42 PM
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So I've been evaluating my collection......I've looked at what I have and what I usually carry. Over the years I've noticed that what I tend to carry has changed and anymore, for the last few years, all I carry is my S&W 640 Pro......reasons, in no particular order.......concealable year round, its a totally reliable firearm, slim, has some stoutness to it for controllability, if the round fails to fire just pull the trigger again. Compacts are kinda "big-ish" anymore, unless you get into the subs and even then its kinda questionable sometimes. I've had the high capacity mentality in the past but the reality, after some study, is that nearly all encounters are just a couple shots and then over......I'm not sure where the shootout/gunfight mentality originated or why it perpetuates when its a negligible number of encounters annually. I've pretty much sold off my compact semi's, in favor of the 640........ I'm not judging anyone, I was you at some point for some reason.......for end-of-days planning full-size semi's are a logical staple, still have several CZ's to fill that "need"........what am I missing with the need for a high-cap carry gun .........
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Missing nothing IMHO, I at times carry a Kimber 45 custom with officer size frame with 4 inch upper and 8 rounds. Otherwise an alloy compact with 14 9mm.
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While I haven't sold many of my compact pistols off, I have always carried revolvers more. Just am more comfortable carrying them and I shoot them well.
It's a personal decision, I just prefer the wheel guns.
Guess I'm a Luddite......
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Here is the way I see it:
1. When the adrenaline kicks in accurracy can be lacking and more rounds could come in handy.
2. If there are multiple attackers additional rounds could be desirable.
3. In this day and age, a trip to the mall could conceivably put you in the middle of a terrorist attack with multiple attackers at various ranges.
4. You could take a wrong turn and find yourself in the middle of a riot with dozens of attackers - in which case more rounds would probably be desirable.
5. Unless you're Jerry Miculek, reloads are usually faster with a spare magazine compared to a revolver.
6. People do not always fall down and quit fighting just because they've been shot once or twice or even more - even if hit in a vital area. This combined with the adrenaline induced lack of accuracy may indicate a need for more rounds.
There are no real data on the average number of shots fired during gun fights by concealed carriers.
Bottom line is it's personal choice and if you prefer carrying the 640 it is better than having a pistol you won't carry.
Personally, I'm of the 'better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it' persuasion.
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Here is the way I see it:
1. When the adrenaline kicks in accurracy can be lacking and more rounds could come in handy.
2. If there are multiple attackers additional rounds could be desirable.
3. In this day and age, a trip to the mall could conceivably put you in the middle of a terrorist attack with multiple attackers at various ranges.
4. You could take a wrong turn and find yourself in the middle of a riot with dozens of attackers - in which case more rounds would probably be desirable.
5. Unless you're Jerry Miculek, reloads are usually faster with a spare magazine compared to a revolver.
6. People do not always fall down and quit fighting just because they've been shot once or twice or even more - even if hit in a vital area. This combined with the adrenaline induced lack of accuracy may indicate a need for more rounds.
There are no real data on the average number of shots fired during gun fights by concealed carriers.
Bottom line is it's personal choice and if you prefer carrying the 640 it is better than having a pistol you won't carry.
Personally, I'm of the 'better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it' persuasion.
All good points, things to consider for sure, thanks.......I've commented on several threads I wish CZ could come up with a steel or alloy frame single stack, slimmer 9mm.....their Sub (Rami) is a nice semi, but I don't consider it a "real" sub-compact by its dimensions, but in description/name only.
What if scenarios aside.....if we just talk "non-massacre" type self-defense situations.........maybe just narrow it down to your "vanilla" self-defense situation
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I haven't tried carrying the RAMI yet - the wife won't let me borrow one of hers. I do carry the P-09 concealed, which is a pretty big sidearm, but the right holster/belt combo works wonders. Also looking like a total slob helps, as in I dress with overly large loose t-shirts in the summer time, and at my age, I am past the impressing anyone with my physique! ;D
I am hoping to try the P-10C as a CCW pistol, because the P-01 and the PCR were fantastic carry pistols, right in the middle of the spectrum. Truly tiny pocket guns never worked well for me.
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All other things being equal, since there's no way of predicting how many assailants there will be, I'd rather have 17 rounds and an extra magazine than 6 rounds and a speedloader.
It's a comfort thing I guess.
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All other things being equal, since there's no way of predicting how many assailants there will be, I'd rather have 17 rounds and an extra magazine than 6 rounds and a speedloader.
It's a comfort thing I guess.
The 640 is just 5 rounds ???..........yeah, I "think" I'm that good 8).......at least I want to believe that, I NEED to believe that ;D ;D
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I haven't tried carrying the RAMI yet - the wife won't let me borrow one of hers. I do carry the P-09 concealed, which is a pretty big sidearm, but the right holster/belt combo works wonders. Also looking like a total slob helps, as in I dress with overly large loose t-shirts in the summer time, and at my age, I am past the impressing anyone with my physique! ;D
I am hoping to try the P-10C as a CCW pistol, because the P-01 and the PCR were fantastic carry pistols, right in the middle of the spectrum. Truly tiny pocket guns never worked well for me.
Why wait for the P10C when the P-07 is available? ;) The RAMI is less prone to printing but the weight can be bothersome if you don't have a good holster and belt. Kudos for conceal carrying the P-09! Albeit, most people aren't looking anyway.
I've somewhat offset less rounds in the RAMI by placing full magazines in multiple locations and vehicles. If I can carry an extra mag, I will.
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If capacity is high on your list, plus concealability, then try looking into a Semi Compact or a Massada
Compact Upper on a Full Framed Lower
High Cap Mags and full sized Grip gives controlability
Compact length gives the concealability
They are all I carry
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If capacity is high on your list, plus concealability, then try looking into a Semi Compact or a Massada
Compact Upper on a Full Framed Lower
High Cap Mags and full sized Grip gives controlability
Compact length gives the concealability
They are all I carry
I have two "semi-compacts" a Masada and a Sphinx. Good guns both.
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Just carry what you feel most comfortable and which you know works. For years I switched from a Kimber Ultra CDP and a S&W Model 36. Now I'm carrying a Sig 320 compact 90% of the time and a Kimber Solo when I really need to conceal. Capacity was never an issue unless I knew I was going into a hot zone, and there aren't to many of those in my life anymore.
Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
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Odds are you'll never be in a gun fight... Let's face it, those who carry do it for other reasons than favorable statistics. That being said, the type of pistol people carry concealed seems to vary based on all sorts of things and the more I hear people talk about it the more interesting it becomes. There are all sorts of great arguments!
Now should I carry a revolver? No way! My rapid fire DA shot sucks and until it is better I wouldn't consider it, but when it does then that might be fun to try. After trying a few types I have settled on my CZ 75 Compact and SP-01 Compact. They are heavy, but I am very confident in my shooting with them, and I've found ways to carry them that are comfortable. As long as someone practices so they are confident in their abilities with their chosen pistol, then power to them, and I like hearing their perspective.
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All other things being equal, since there's no way of predicting how many assailants there will be, I'd rather have 17 rounds and an extra magazine than 6 rounds and a speedloader.
It's a comfort thing I guess.
The 640 is just 5 rounds ???..........yeah, I "think" I'm that good 8).......at least I want to believe that, I NEED to believe that ;D ;D
I like my 640 Pro real well and I'm very good with a DA revolver but I only carry the small low cap guns when dress absolutely prohibits anything else. That said if I'm going to cinch up my belt to carry a gun it's my PCR or 75B Compact. These are the perfect size for comfortable all day carry and provide nearly the firepower of a full size pistol.
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All BS aside,the best carry gun,is the one you have on you when it is needed. The tragedy exists when someone forgets to strap on their gun because of forgetfulness,or because it is uncomfortable. Then all of a sudden they are in a situation where they need it. The perfect gun is the one you will carry- 24-7. Im no expert,but I have carried for over 40 years. Scotty O0 O0 O0
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All other things being equal, since there's no way of predicting how many assailants there will be, I'd rather have 17 rounds and an extra magazine than 6 rounds and a speedloader.
It's a comfort thing I guess.
Amen.
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Odds are you'll never be in a gun fight... Let's face it, those who carry do it for other reasons than favorable statistics. That being said, the type of pistol people carry concealed seems to vary based on all sorts of things and the more I hear people talk about it the more interesting it becomes. There are all sorts of great arguments!
Now should I carry a revolver? No way! My rapid fire DA shot sucks and until it is better I wouldn't consider it, but when it does then that might be fun to try. After trying a few types I have settled on my CZ 75 Compact and SP-01 Compact. They are heavy, but I am very confident in my shooting with them, and I've found ways to carry them that are comfortable. As long as someone practices so they are confident in their abilities with their chosen pistol, then power to them, and I like hearing their perspective.
I imagine the odds for some are greater than for others, but realistically I doubt I will ever be forced to use my carry gun. Similar to what Grendel said, it's a comfort thing. As the old saying goes, "better to have it and not need it..."
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All BS aside,the best carry gun,is the one you have on you when it is needed. The tragedy exists when someone forgets to strap on their gun because of forgetfulness,or because it is uncomfortable. Then all of a sudden they are in a situation where they need it. The perfect gun is the one you will carry- 24-7. Im no expert,but I have carried for over 40 years. Scotty O0 O0 O0
I agree with all but the notion that one might forget their gun. If carrying is that much of an afterthought then that person needs to take things a bit more seriously. Strapping on one's pistol should not become the same mundane task as slipping a wallet into a pocket.
I would also add that the best gun is the one that you will practice with and become proficient with. I know far to many people who think an airweight J frame is just the perfect gun to pack the problem is it's one of the hardest guns to master and these guys are carrying guns that they haven't put 30 rounds through. Yikes!!
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All BS aside..... The perfect gun is the one you will carry- 24-7..........
I think in a nutshell this may be more the issue....I feel the desire/need to have something that I want to carry for some "basic level" of protection versus something I could carry to "possibly" cover the "what if" scenarios.......same reasoning could be said for most anything in life I suppose, example being a vehicle, you start with a basic platform and add to it based on wants or needs....the basic platform will normally suffice in a utilitarian way but if wanted, different bells & whistles are available.......yes??
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I carry a 75B because it's a good analog for my competition gun. I'd rather have more ammo on hand than less. I am big enough where I can make it go away.
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All BS aside..... The perfect gun is the one you will carry- 24-7..........
I think in a nutshell this may be more the issue....I feel the desire/need to have something that I want to carry for some "basic level" of protection versus something I could carry to "possibly" cover the "what if" scenarios.......same reasoning could be said for most anything in life I suppose, example being a vehicle, you start with a basic platform and add to it based on wants or needs....the basic platform will normally suffice in a utilitarian way but if wanted, different bells & whistles are available.......yes??
This ^^^^^ PLUS a handgun that shoots easily for YOU when under stress. NOT a bullseye gun, NOT a spray-and-pray gun. One that points and shoots well at distances that make sense for your situation.
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I pretty much always carried a 1911 in .45ACP - generally with ball ammo for reliability - for most of the year. In summer I would switch to either a Makarov in 9X18 or a Bersa .380.
With the way things are going - heading towards a breakdown in society, it seems - I came to believe that 7 or 8 rounds along with one reload might just not be enough. I started carrying my Hi Power but decided I might like to have something that was DA for the first shot, so looking at prices and availability I decided that a CZ 75 B would be the best choice - just a slight bit bigger that the Hi Power, but with 33% higher capacity and DA. Then CZ started bringing in the CZ 83 again, so first I scored one of those. Then, about a year later, I picked up that 75 B.
I carry them both IWB, and have no issues making them disappear. I'm about 6'-2" and 278 pounds, with very wide shoulders, so a XXL-Tall T-Shirt over an undershirt makes 'em disappear. The CZ 83 goes in a Falco IWB, and the 75 B in an Israeli Yamam IWB holster.
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I have come to believe more is better. Part of the reason I switched from a single stack .45 to a double stack 9mm recently.
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Great conversation guys! please continue.. I am learning!
K in MI
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I'm new here and I usually stay out of these kind of discussions because they can get kind of heated. It seems to be different here (hopefully) and I'm not speaking to anyone in particular, but just the readership as a whole, so here goes.
From the time I grew up in bars until part way through my LE career revolvers were still the thing to have "Those darn automatics would just jam on you and get you killed". Eventually things progressed and the guns themselves got better with time also. It's few and far between if you can find a revolver in a cops holster these days, although there are some, mostly in smaller cities. Cops used to have 38 specials with cartridge loops, not even speed loaders, then things seemed to go to magnum cartridges, at least here in parts of the west. It was "knockdown" power that was wanted. I carried 357 magnums and was even issued a 41 magnum at one time and worked with some guys that carried 44 magnums.
We eventually found out the obvious which was that they had too much recoil, muzzle rise, over penetration and most people couldn't shoot them worth a hoot, much less reload one in any kind of a hurry especially under stress. Could you imagine a city, state, or county that would issue you a 41 magnum in todays society. Slowly but surely semiautomatics, new training ideas and techniques began to gain traction, blah, blah, blah......and here we are today.
The point being that things progress, whether we want them to or not or despite how things were in the old days. There is a reason cops don't by and large carry something that holds 5 or 6 rounds anymore, and one of the many reasons is capacity. As stated I started in LE with a six shot revolver, went to a Browning Hi Power when capacity or 9mm wasn't popular but it worked. I then went to a 1911 due to what we were issued on SWAT. I eventually wandered over to the Glock camp mostly because of capacity. If you've noticed there is a recurring theme here.
I can't think of every reason I've come up with over the years that having a larger amount of capacity can help overcome a lot of scenarios. Don't get me wrong it's not the end all be all thing that will keep you out of trouble or save your tail every time. Awareness, tactics, marksmanship, getting off the X or not being where you really shouldn't be, etc., etc. can probably save you more than having 50 rounds on your person. However we're human and sometimes we get in a predicament or something happens that we really couldn't foresee. It used to be that the biggest thing to worry about was a mugging or strong arm robbery. A J-frame used to be thought of as all you need, "because everything happens in 6 feet or less".
Well things are a changing, it's multiple threats, usually armed threats and threats with better tactics that is more the norm now. I do realize this doesn't happen every time, but enough that it should be a concern to be prepared for. Bad guys are still shooting people at 6 feet or less, but they're also shooting people at a lot farther distances also like across the street, across the parking lot, drive by's, on and on. Would you really want to respond with a J frame with no real sights to speak of, short sight radius (shaking like a dog, understandably so), 5 shots, moving..at least you should be, unless behind cover, slow reload.
Speaking of reloads there was a study done on drug cartel on drug cartel shootings in Mexico. The average distance of shots fired was 50 to 100 yds. IIRC. An inordinate number of deaths occurred during these fights while the deceased was trying to perform a reload. Either they weren't proficient enough or a lot of them had their magazines that they were going to use hit by gunfire and rendered the magazine useless. Admittedly these were rifle magazines carried in chest rigs or bandoliers. I seriously doubt many of you are going to be battling drug cartels in the streets, but my point is that having to perform a reload puts you in even more danger, especially if you're having to do it slowly or more often (no matter how many speed loaders or 6-7 shot 380acp magazines you're carrying) and the more bad guys the more danger. There is something that can be said for getting lead down range in a rather quick manner, preferably accurately. Or what if your 20 rd. magazine malfunctions on your wonder gun, do you have at least one spare if not more, on your person, not in the glove compartment.
I don't remember the statistics offhand but most people in a gunfight including police officers miss their intended target by at least a third of their shots, if not more. So if you have a 1911 with an 8 round magazine and you're attacked by 3 muggers, especially if one or more of them have a weapon, you better be an above average gunfighter, not just an above average shooter, there is a difference. Lets say you are an above average shooter, what about the bad guy(s) that doesn't go down with 1 or even 2 shots in him, happens more often than not. Again a blue haired old lady may prevail with her 1911, J frame, or 6 shot 380, but that's definitely not the norm and I wouldn't put any money on it.
I also believe from experience that them good ole "only real guns shoot cartridges that start with a 4" guns and larger are harder to shoot accurately, through recoil and are harder and slower to get back on target and make successive, accurate hits with. Not that it can't be done, it's just harder for mere mortals, I know, I know, you're not that guy :D But seriously most people including myself can shoot a softer recoiling, softer cycling gun more accurately and faster. Which leads to another thing that I believe from experience, that larger calibers or larger cartridges are not the end all be all either.
I'm sure most of you have heard somewhere that there isn't a lot of difference between wounds in human body tissue from one handgun cartridge to another. I can say from what I've seen and discussed with others that this is true. I've been to crime scenes, autopsies, ER's and operating rooms and discussed the subject with Dr.'s and surgeons during the process of being a police officer and an EMT previous to that. Most of them tell me that they can't tell much difference in tissue damage from a 10mm to a 45acp from a 45acp to a 9mm but rifle and shotgun wounds are an entirely different matter. I do believe that with a handgun a certain depth of penetration is important, making bullet choice important and some cartridges not adequate. Lets face it .22 caliber wounds are much more deadly than given credit for, but usually not quick enough to save you in a deadly confrontation, of course some head shots not withstanding. A static head shot is very doable, especially in a proactive role but when it's bobbing weaving and in motion, you're adrenaline is off the chart, it's a lot harder obviously.
I never understood the reasoning behind some choices of carry guns and cartridges. If you're going to bother with carrying why not carry to the best of your advantage. Some people only carry if they think they're going to be somewhere dangerous or only carry a J frame or a small 380 because nothing ever happens here anyway and anything bigger is just too uncomfortable. With that thinking you may as well carry one of those belt buckle size .22 revolvers in your shirt pocket with no reload of course. All this thinking does is give you a false sense of security, thinking I'm doing something. I wish I knew when I was going to be attacked beforehand as I wouldn't be there or I'd have a lot more than a handgun with me if I couldn't avoid it. In my mind defensive carry is a lifestyle or a mindset. Either you get it or you don't, it's either more important than being totally comfortable or it's not, it's either more important to be prepared for myself and my family's safety than to just rely on statistics that stuff just doesn't happen here, or it's not. People usually have health, car, home insurance (if not state mandated) for something that probably won't happen either, but that's a different mindset that seems to be more accepted by society in general. We just don't think things are going to happen to us
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As someone previously stated in this thread, the world ain't what it used to be, and our threats are changing and multiplying from when the J frame was king. Maybe being a cop you see the reality of the human mind more or more often than someone who isn't in law enforcement, and the truth of the matter is something probably isn't going to happen to you, and especially if you live in certain areas. However I believe there are a lot of dead or maimed people who wish they had been more prepared for the violence they met whether they believed it would happen or they didn't.
I'm not the authority on police matters, tissue wounds, ballistics, tactics or anything else I guess but I've been around awhile, trained with various agencies, schools, etc. investigated crime and done a lot of different things in my life . I've been out of law enforcement a whole lot longer than I was in law enforcement but I feel that I have some basis to make my decisions on, as right or wrong as they may be. I have made my decision on what to carry and how much to carry based on those experiences. I have come to the conclusion that recoil, muzzle rise and capacity are the things to strive for, obviously in a handgun that fits you and you shoot well. I'm not saying you have to carry 2 guns and 4 or 5 magazines on you at all times or that you can't do this with anything larger than a 9mm. You obviously make your decisions on your own experiences, I won't judge you or badmouth you on the decisions you may make, I may not quite understand them or agree with them but ultimately it's you and your family that will have to live with them.
I'm sure a lot of you will feel differently than I do about some or a lot of this and again I'm not judging anyone or going to try and convince you to believe my thoughts or do things my way as I know it may not be for you, and I have no problem with that. I'm merely laying out how I came to the conclusions I did after having different ideas about guns and cartridges and manners of carry over the years.
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I'm new here and I usually stay out of these kind of discussions because they can get kind of heated. It seems to be different here (hopefully) and I'm not speaking to anyone in particular, but just the readership as a whole, so here goes.
From the time I grew up in bars until part way through my LE career revolvers were still the thing to have "Those darn automatics would just jam on you and get you killed". Eventually things progressed and the guns themselves got better with time also. It's few and far between if you can find a revolver in a cops holster these days, although there are some, mostly in smaller cities. Cops used to have 38 specials with cartridge loops, not even speed loaders, then things seemed to go to magnum cartridges, at least here in parts of the west. It was "knockdown" power that was wanted. I carried 357 magnums and was even issued a 41 magnum at one time and worked with some guys that carried 44 magnums.
We eventually found out the obvious which was that they had too much recoil, muzzle rise, over penetration and most people couldn't shoot them worth a hoot, much less reload one in any kind of a hurry especially under stress. Could you imagine a city, state, or county that would issue you a 41 magnum in todays society. Slowly but surely semiautomatics, new training ideas and techniques began to gain traction, blah, blah, blah......and here we are today.
The point being that things progress, whether we want them to or not or despite how things were in the old days. There is a reason cops don't by and large carry something that holds 5 or 6 rounds anymore, and one of the many reasons is capacity. As stated I started in LE with a six shot revolver, went to a Browning Hi Power when capacity or 9mm wasn't popular but it worked. I then went to a 1911 due to what we were issued on SWAT. I eventually wandered over to the Glock camp mostly because of capacity. If you've noticed there is a recurring theme here.
I can't think of every reason I've come up with over the years that having a larger amount of capacity can help overcome a lot of scenarios. Don't get me wrong it's not the end all be all thing that will keep you out of trouble or save your tail every time. Awareness, tactics, marksmanship, getting off the X or not being where you really shouldn't be, etc., etc. can probably save you more than having 50 rounds on your person. However we're human and sometimes we get in a predicament or something happens that we really couldn't foresee. It used to be that the biggest thing to worry about was a mugging or strong arm robbery. A J-frame used to be thought of as all you need, "because everything happens in 6 feet or less".
Well things are a changing, it's multiple threats, usually armed threats and threats with better tactics that is more the norm now. I do realize this doesn't happen every time, but enough that it should be a concern to be prepared for. Bad guys are still shooting people at 6 feet or less, but they're also shooting people at a lot farther distances also like across the street, across the parking lot, drive by's, on and on. Would you really want to respond with a J frame with no real sights to speak of, short sight radius (shaking like a dog, understandably so), 5 shots, moving..at least you should be, unless behind cover, slow reload.
Speaking of reloads there was a study done on drug cartel on drug cartel shootings in Mexico. The average distance of shots fired was 50 to 100 yds. IIRC. An inordinate number of deaths occurred during these fights while the deceased was trying to perform a reload. Either they weren't proficient enough or a lot of them had their magazines that they were going to use hit by gunfire and rendered the magazine useless. Admittedly these were rifle magazines carried in chest rigs or bandoliers. I seriously doubt many of you are going to be battling drug cartels in the streets, but my point is that having to perform a reload puts you in even more danger, especially if you're having to do it slowly or more often (no matter how many speed loaders or 6-7 shot 380acp magazines you're carrying) and the more bad guys the more danger. There is something that can be said for getting lead down range in a rather quick manner, preferably accurately. Or what if your 20 rd. magazine malfunctions on your wonder gun, do you have at least one spare if not more, on your person, not in the glove compartment.
I don't remember the statistics offhand but most people in a gunfight including police officers miss their intended target by at least a third of their shots, if not more. So if you have a 1911 with an 8 round magazine and you're attacked by 3 muggers, especially if one or more of them have a weapon, you better be an above average gunfighter, not just an above average shooter, there is a difference. Lets say you are an above average shooter, what about the bad guy(s) that doesn't go down with 1 or even 2 shots in him, happens more often than not. Again a blue haired old lady may prevail with her 1911, J frame, or 6 shot 380, but that's definitely not the norm and I wouldn't put any money on it.
I also believe from experience that them good ole "only real guns shoot cartridges that start with a 4" guns and larger are harder to shoot accurately, through recoil and are harder and slower to get back on target and make successive, accurate hits with. Not that it can't be done, it's just harder for mere mortals, I know, I know, you're not that guy :D But seriously most people including myself can shoot a softer recoiling, softer cycling gun more accurately and faster. Which leads to another thing that I believe from experience, that larger calibers or larger cartridges are not the end all be all either.
I'm sure most of you have heard somewhere that there isn't a lot of difference between wounds in human body tissue from one handgun cartridge to another. I can say from what I've seen and discussed with others that this is true. I've been to crime scenes, autopsies, ER's and operating rooms and discussed the subject with Dr.'s and surgeons during the process of being a police officer and an EMT previous to that. Most of them tell me that they can't tell much difference in tissue damage from a 10mm to a 45acp from a 45acp to a 9mm but rifle and shotgun wounds are an entirely different matter. I do believe that with a handgun a certain depth of penetration is important, making bullet choice important and some cartridges not adequate. Lets face it .22 caliber wounds are much more deadly than given credit for, but usually not quick enough to save you in a deadly confrontation, of course some head shots not withstanding. A static head shot is very doable, especially in a proactive role but when it's bobbing weaving and in motion, you're adrenaline is off the chart, it's a lot harder obviously.
I never understood the reasoning behind some choices of carry guns and cartridges. If you're going to bother with carrying why not carry to the best of your advantage. Some people only carry if they think they're going to be somewhere dangerous or only carry a J frame or a small 380 because nothing ever happens here anyway and anything bigger is just too uncomfortable. With that thinking you may as well carry one of those belt buckle size .22 revolvers in your shirt pocket with no reload of course. All this thinking does is give you a false sense of security, thinking I'm doing something. I wish I knew when I was going to be attacked beforehand as I wouldn't be there or I'd have a lot more than a handgun with me if I couldn't avoid it. In my mind defensive carry is a lifestyle or a mindset. Either you get it or you don't, it's either more important than being totally comfortable or it's not, it's either more important to be prepared for myself and my family's safety than to just rely on statistics that stuff just doesn't happen here, or it's not. People usually have health, car, home insurance (if not state mandated) for something that probably won't happen either, but that's a different mindset that seems to be more accepted by society in general. We just don't think things are going to happen to us
.
As someone previously stated in this thread, the world ain't what it used to be, and our threats are changing and multiplying from when the J frame was king. Maybe being a cop you see the reality of the human mind more or more often than someone who isn't in law enforcement, and the truth of the matter is something probably isn't going to happen to you, and especially if you live in certain areas. However I believe there are a lot of dead or maimed people who wish they had been more prepared for the violence they met whether they believed it would happen or they didn't.
I'm not the authority on police matters, tissue wounds, ballistics, tactics or anything else I guess but I've been around awhile, trained with various agencies, schools, etc. investigated crime and done a lot of different things in my life . I've been out of law enforcement a whole lot longer than I was in law enforcement but I feel that I have some basis to make my decisions on, as right or wrong as they may be. I have made my decision on what to carry and how much to carry based on those experiences. I have come to the conclusion that recoil, muzzle rise and capacity are the things to strive for, obviously in a handgun that fits you and you shoot well. I'm not saying you have to carry 2 guns and 4 or 5 magazines on you at all times or that you can't do this with anything larger than a 9mm. You obviously make your decisions on your own experiences, I won't judge you or badmouth you on the decisions you may make, I may not quite understand them or agree with them but ultimately it's you and your family that will have to live with them.
I'm sure a lot of you will feel differently than I do about some or a lot of this and again I'm not judging anyone or going to try and convince you to believe my thoughts or do things my way as I know it may not be for you, and I have no problem with that. I'm merely laying out how I came to the conclusions I did after having different ideas about guns and cartridges and manners of carry over the years.
This all makes sense to me.
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^^^^I get the point or most of it but I'll continue to carry my PCR 98% of the time and when dress prohibits I'll carry the J frame and if I find myself out gunned that's on me. If it was practical to carry my riot gun loaded with 3 in. mag slugs I would but it isn't.
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I'm new here and I usually stay out of these kind of discussions because they can get kind of heated. It seems to be different here (hopefully) and I'm not speaking to anyone in particular, but just the readership as a whole, so here goes....
A long way of saying more is better than less.
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OP, let's do a logic check.
The odds of your ever needing to use your concealed carry pistol are SUPER low, BUT the penalty for playing the odds and losing is your life or the lives of others, so you choose to carry anyway.
The odds of your needing more than 5 rounds in a CCW defense scenario is low, BUT the penalty for playing the odds and losing is your life or the lives of others, so you choose to... wait a minute... you're betting WITH the odds this time, despite the penalty.
The logic of the choice to limit yourself to five rounds seems to be the opposite of the choice to carry concealed to begin with. ;)
At the end of the day:
No one has ever had to use a firearm for lethal lethal force in defense of their life or the lives of others, then after the event commented "I wish the gun had held less ammo."
No professional has ever gone into a scenario where they expected lethal force might be needed and thought "I really wish my firearms held less ammo."
Food for thought.
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After trying a few types I have settled on my CZ 75 Compact and SP-01 Compact. They are heavy, but I am very confident in my shooting with them, and I've found ways to carry them that are comfortable.
What holster do you use for your SP-01 Compact? IWB or OWB? I'm considering getting aIWB holster for mine- a first for me. I'm also thinking about just using OWB and a floppy shirt to cover it.
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I got a Stealthgear AIWB when they were on sale for black Friday. It is my first time trying AIWB and it's my favorite position for IWB now. With the holster, a strong belt, and the position weight hasn't been an issue at all for me.
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The majority of us, non LE carriers will pass our firearms down to our heirs when we pass, having never pulled them from the holster in anger. Most of those that do pull a firearm in anger will not have to pull the trigger. The majority of those that have to pull a trigger in self defense will do so 3 or less times. By shot 3, people are generally either running, bleeding out or figuring out what just happened. The dynamics for a civilian compared to LE are very different. LE will give chase, call in backup and can have dogs and helicopters on the scene before long when someone makes a run for it. But, with your average civilian, a thug can run, knowing full well that we are not going to run after them.
Given all of that, my personal focus is on making those first three shots count as much as possible. I want those first three rounds to be as effective as they possibly can to either entirely prevent return fire or at least reduce the effectiveness of it. One of my most commonly carried pistols is a Dan Wesson CCO. I shoot that gun very well and am willing to give up capacity with that gun. There are times that I do find comfort in capacity and I'll dial it up at times and carry anything from a P01, SP01C or P09/40.
I'm not suggesting that anyone that carries higher capacity pistols is doing anything wrong, but for me, what I wrote above is what how I've come to think about the issue. To each there own. For me, it's all about that first three rounds is my primary concern. Whether there are 5 more behind it or 14 more is not as important as those first three.
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The majority of us, non LE carriers will pass our firearms down to our heirs when we pass, having never pulled them from the holster in anger. Most of those that do pull a firearm in anger will not have to pull the trigger. The majority of those that have to pull a trigger in self defense will do so 3 or less times.
I tend to be of the same mindset......being prepared, putting yourself in the best position at all times.....situational awareness.....its not being paranoid, it making awareness part of your being....realizing all things have risks, mitigating them to an acceptable level, recognizing and adjusting to move out of possible bad situations before they deteriorate, sitting closer to the exits at a theater, at least knowing where they are and the quickest route to them....just a few seconds to know how to get out, instead of be cornered and having to fight. This is kind of why I broached this subject in relation to CCW and capacity levels. Mitigating risk to zero isn't realistic, I do however believe that there are circumstances that could dictate more available "fire power" being a factor to consider....
I live in a mountainous region of the country, when in the wilderness I carry appropriately, in National Parks its illegal to carry.....when out hiking you have to make the determination......bear, mountain lion, wolves, snakes......the government thinks those predators are more important than your ability to protect yourself.....but I digress, my apologies ::)
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Its always nice to have friends.... Your ammunition feels the same....
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The majority of us, non LE carriers will pass our firearms down to our heirs when we pass, having never pulled them from the holster in anger. Most of those that do pull a firearm in anger will not have to pull the trigger. The majority of those that have to pull a trigger in self defense will do so 3 or less times.
I tend to be of the same mindset......being prepared, putting yourself in the best position at all times.....situational awareness.....its not being paranoid, it making awareness part of your being....realizing all things have risks, mitigating them to an acceptable level, recognizing and adjusting to move out of possible bad situations before they deteriorate, sitting closer to the exits at a theater, at least knowing where they are and the quickest route to them....just a few seconds to know how to get out, instead of be cornered and having to fight. This is kind of why I broached this subject in relation to CCW and capacity levels. Mitigating risk to zero isn't realistic, I do however believe that there are circumstances that could dictate more available "fire power" being a factor to consider....
I live in a mountainous region of the country, when in the wilderness I carry appropriately, in National Parks its illegal to carry.....when out hiking you have to make the determination......bear, mountain lion, wolves, snakes......the government thinks those predators are more important than your ability to protect yourself.....but I digress, my apologies ::)
Not entirely accurate. The United States Department of the Interior, National Park Service, goes by state law of the state the park (or particular part thereof), is located. Of course buildings where employees are stationed or work in are off limits.
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Your life will never be put in jeopardy by having too many rounds.
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I would think more rounds are a plus....
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Correct.
It's not a coincidence that whenever this conversation comes up, the proponents of lower capacity also happen to be revolver or 1911 enthusiasts. ;)
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They are unless you choose an inferior caliber to achieve high capacity. A PMR30 holds a lot of weak ammo.
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Okay......the "less capacity" crowd seems to be keeping a low profile here, so for the "large capacity" group......whats an acceptable regular carry capacity you are comfortable with, that would include loaded firearm and extra rounds in spare mag(s)......just wondering what the thinking is........my normal carry with the 640 is 5 loaded, 5 more on a speedstrip/speedy loader.....thanks
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When carrying a compact I usually carry 16+1 and a spare 16. When I carry a full size it is 19+1 with a spare 19.
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PCR or 75B Compact fully loaded with 15,spare mage with 14. The 2% of the time that I have to carry my 640 it's 5 loaded and 2 5rnd speed loaders.
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I remember reading a line by someone famous, like Ayoob, or Cooper, or someone similar: 'Always carry the biggest pistol you can successfully conceal' or words to that effect.
I am guided by this. In spring, fall, or winter, it's normally a full size pistol or possibly a compact (G19 or the like) and extra mag, in summer, a pocket pistol (G43 or LCP) and extra mag.
The extra mag serves two purposes, it obviously gives a reload for extra rounds, but also covers me should I get a stovepipe, double feed, or other life ending malfunction.
In closing, consider this: you will never lose a fight by having too many rounds of ammunition.
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All BS aside,the best carry gun,is the one you have on you when it is needed. The tragedy exists when someone forgets to strap on their gun because of forgetfulness,or because it is uncomfortable. Then all of a sudden they are in a situation where they need it. The perfect gun is the one you will carry- 24-7. Im no expert,but I have carried for over 40 years. Scotty O0 O0 O0
I agree with all but the notion that one might forget their gun. If carrying is that much of an afterthought then that person needs to take things a bit more seriously. Strapping on one's pistol should not become the same mundane task as slipping a wallet into a pocket.
I would also add that the best gun is the one that you will practice with and become proficient with. I know far to many people who think an airweight J frame is just the perfect gun to pack the problem is it's one of the hardest guns to master and these guys are carrying guns that they haven't put 30 rounds through. Yikes!!
I carried a 442 for a long time. I encountered all the comments (my favorite is "Its so cute, whats it going to be when it grows up?"). As for accuracy, under 7 meters and I'm golden. Past that and I wonder if it is really a life threatening situation that doesnt allow for withdrawal.
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Many years ago one of my partners (small LE department in the mountains of WV) had an odd understanding/belief about statistics and gun fights.
He carried a S&W M59. Remember those? Fifteen shot 9MM. Well, my partner carried six rounds in his pistol and no spare magazine. Evidently the Chief was okay with this because that's how the guy operated (we worked straight evening shift, same days for 3 days and by ourselves 2 days so we covered the whole week).
I asked to look at his pistol one night while we were in the office. He had a hollow point (don't remember the brand) in the chamber and some FMJ rounds in the magazine. A mix of different brands and even one European military surplus round. I was amazed and disappointed that my back up was such a mess. I asked why he only had six rounds in the gun and he told me, "I read the annual FBI report on police officers killed each year. I know the average gun fight only sees 2.7 rounds fired till the fight is over. I've got twice that many rounds in my pistol. That's all I need." I was to find out, later at the range, that he couldn't hit the target if he had two boxes worth of loaded back up magazines, but that's another story.
I asked him if he understood how the average number of rounds fired was calculated and found out he didn't understand averages either. I gave up (I refuse to descend into the insanity of anyone else's little world.)
When things go south, they seldom follow the book or the averages. I follow the rule of "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it." I carry a fully loaded magazine in my double stacked compact (whether .40 S&W or 9MM) and three larger than standard back up magazines - on me. Hope I never need'em.
And, I remember when folks said single stack just wasn't enough rounds. That's why the "wonder 9" came about. And more followed. I sort of chuckle, these days, when people start talking about going back to where we were in the 70's.
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All BS aside,the best carry gun,is the one you have on you when it is needed. The tragedy exists when someone forgets to strap on their gun because of forgetfulness,or because it is uncomfortable. Then all of a sudden they are in a situation where they need it. The perfect gun is the one you will carry- 24-7. Im no expert,but I have carried for over 40 years. Scotty O0 O0 O0
I agree with all but the notion that one might forget their gun. If carrying is that much of an afterthought then that person needs to take things a bit more seriously. Strapping on one's pistol should not become the same mundane task as slipping a wallet into a pocket.
I would also add that the best gun is the one that you will practice with and become proficient with. I know far to many people who think an airweight J frame is just the perfect gun to pack the problem is it's one of the hardest guns to master and these guys are carrying guns that they haven't put 30 rounds through. Yikes!!
I carried a 442 for a long time. I encountered all the comments (my favorite is "Its so cute, whats it going to be when it grows up?"). As for accuracy, under 7 meters and I'm golden. Past that and I wonder if it is really a life threatening situation that doesnt allow for withdrawal.
I'm not knocking the J frame one bit. I own a couple and they are solid accurate shooters but they do require a lot of practice to be proficient with. Short barrel and sight radius you know the drill. My point is that so many people buy this style gun and never practice with them yet they carry them as defensive pistols and while that is entirely their choice they do themselves a disservice by their lack of experience with their weapon of choice. Practice, practice, practice with any gun you plan to defend your life with.
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My father used to be in law enforcement on patrol at the state level during the late 60's to early 90's.......always carried a S&W revolver, told me after he retired he never had to pull it once.......nowadays, seems much more common, if for no other reason than being ready/prepared. I understand the reasoning times change, terrorists, "everyone" is going to do you harm, less respect/trust for LEO's....I get it, seems like the stakes just keep getting raised......AR's slung over everyone's shoulders (except California & NY ;D) isn't too far off, 20 years maybe, if things continue.........honestly, back in the 70's thru the 90's I don't recall CCW being something that was deemed necessary, decades before that it was pretty much unheard of I learned after talking with my grandfathers.......now a couple milliion of folks do it regularly..... I totally support folks right to do that, just kinda unfortunate they have to or at least feel like they have to exercise it as a matter of survival. Then again the US population has grown a lot, 200 million in 1970 and 320 million in 2016........percentages would dictate there are likely more bad apples in that 120 million more folks :o
Just heard of a new study that showed CCW carriers have a much lower incident of criminal acts than the average civilian or law enforcement officer......the latter surprised me, but then again they are just people too..... ???
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When I can carry it's my Rami w/extra mag. Yep I use the ten rounder, that's what works best for me with how I dress and body shape. I say "when I can carry", because unfortunately where I work prohibits firearms and can't even have one in the car. (school)
I admit I'm fairly new to ccw, only a couple years. I'm still learning the tricks and techniques like dressing around a bigger pistol. I'm a bigger guy, so no problem with the weight of the gun, it's the shape of the body that won't cooperate[emoji2]
I never really use to worry about carrying on my person. Always had a pistol when traveling, camping, HD, etc. but never thought about ccw. Not really sure what happened, maybe all the crap going on in the world, more crime getting closer to home. Dunno, just woke up one day and said I'm gonna get my permit and carry when/where I can.
A knife is better than nothing, a pistol is better than a knife, a pistol with more ammo is better than..........[emoji6]so I'm probably gonna end up carrying more ammo at some point.
I say carry what works for you, your situation, and your comfort level.
I might add, in the woods I'm down to my 6 shots of either .357 or .44 mag and maybe a couple speed loaders. Of course I'm not so much worried about the 2 legged creatures as I am the 4 legged ones.
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I wasn't going say anything else so ya'll wouldn't think my tin foil was screwed on too tight, but M1A4ME gave me hope ;D
I used to carry a G17 with 17 +1 and (2)17-rd mags all the time for 52rds or, a G19 loaded and (2) extra G17 mags for 50rds total.
Now that I'm a CZ convert I carry a P-07 with 15 +1 and (2)19-rd P-09 mags with +2 baseplates for 58 rds, or a P-09 loaded and the same (2) mags for a total of 60rds on my person........... Yep, I'm more happy now 8)
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Okay......the "less capacity" crowd seems to be keeping a low profile here, so for the "large capacity" group......whats an acceptable regular carry capacity you are comfortable with, that would include loaded firearm and extra rounds in spare mag(s)......just wondering what the thinking is........my normal carry with the 640 is 5 loaded, 5 more on a speedstrip/speedy loader.....thanks
1) I pull up "table 5 crime in the United States by state" from the FBI annual crime statistics.
2) I take (Violent Crime/Property Crime) = base number
3) Then I take Base Number + Pi and I get my minimum number of rounds per magazine.
This normalizes Metro Areas, Cities outside of Metro areas, and Non-Metro Counties really nicely.
Then I take the Violent Crimes/(Population/100,000) and if that number is higher than 250 I carry 2 magazines. If that number is over 450 I carry a second BUG.
If my round count score puts me at a full size magazine but the score for the number of magazines only warrants one magazine then the rule is set to normalize the minimum round count per magazine down to the Base Number.
Now ask yourself... Did I really validate these equations? O0
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If one looks solely at stats, there would seem to be slim chance approaching none that any individual is going to ever actually be in a shooting incident. But not zero chance. On the other hand, it makes sense to carry what one reasonably might need plus, some "rainy day" reloads, etc. But when one begins to really justify and sensibly, too, that the minimum carry is at least two firearms, a knife, some form of less lethal option, like a heavy flashlight or gas spray of some sort, and upwards of 30 or more rounds of ammunition as just the basic daily load out, I guess it nears the point that I would ask, "Where the heck am I going? What am I doing? That I really need all of this?" Because if one really, really, needs all of that, maybe the right answer is, "Don't do that! Don't go there!"
I think the answer lies someplace in the middle. Although compared to the revolver days, 30 rounds might only be one mag change (or two for us Californians). So I don't think that's necessarily unreasonable. Nor do I think that a modern semi with perhaps less than 10 or a revolver with 5 or 6 rounds might not also be a reasonable carry option, too.
One really needs to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling because it is a serious matter. Everyone lives in a different place and the circumstances can be wildly different. I can look to what my dad carried in 30 plus years of LE and compare that to what a nephew and brother-in-law carry these days. And it's vastly different.
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Being that I live in the utopian state of NY, I am not an LEO, I am limited to SEVEN ROUNDS IN A MAGAZINE so I carry a combat commander most of the time. Can't go for more so bigger is better!
safe act indeed
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Being that I live in the utopian state of NY, I am not an LEO, I am limited to SEVEN ROUNDS IN A MAGAZINE so I carry a combat commander most of the time. Can't go for more so bigger is better!
safe act indeed
Well, it makes the bad guys safer.
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Do you wear a seatbelt when you drive a car? A helmet when you ride a bike? A life jacket when you're flying down the lake in the bass boat?
You don't take safety precautions because you know it will happen (who'd go to the mall today if you knew there was going to be an active shooter incident, or if you knew you were going to be robbed in the parking lot?)
You take safety precautions because sometimes bad things happen to good people, and you want to increase your chances of survival.
Hey, when we go on a road trip I even have my wife put an extra key to the vehicle we take in her purse, just in case. And I carry the new CZ 75 Compact instead of my P07, because I want our magazines/ammo to be compatible. Just in case.
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There are some great points & options in this thread and all quite valid. I think in the big picture, it's about personal comfort. I got my CC permit mostly because I do a lot of after hours work with medical & dental, with meds on sight or at least perceive on site. There have been some break in's at a couple of them & one place 3 different times. My comfort level has changed at times and my carry piece has changed to reflect that. But it has always been about my comfort level. I do believe that we all play out scenario's in our head and that is the determining factor for at least a large percentage of the time. I'm not talking about the guy or gal that just felt uncomfortable & got their permit or a new gun and think it's all handled after that. Those folks probably don't frequent this type of forum. There are a lot of folks that think it could never happen to me or mine. The bottom line is that it does happen & you have to make yourself as comfortable as possible with what is carried.
There is no more is better or more is worse, it's about what makes you as comfortable as possible...
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I hope that we can agree that what the other person's comfort level is their comfort level, not everyone's. I personally carry a CZ P-09 off duty with two full spare mags. Why? Because I like the gun, (its Cajunized), I shoot it well, and I like full capacity. I don't expect to run into a battalion of Russian Spetznatz, but some ultra rare high profile incidents have gotten me to think that more is better. I have also carried a 6 shot 38 Special revolver with two speedloaders, and WAY back in the day I carried a 5 shot Charter Arms Off Duty snub, felt no worse.
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Correct.
It's not a coincidence that whenever this conversation comes up, the proponents of lower capacity also happen to be revolver or 1911 enthusiasts. ;)
The low capacity crowd is fortunate enough to be able to carry those weapons. Why would you choose anything less? [emoji3]
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I hope that we can agree that what the other person's comfort level is their comfort level, not everyone's. I personally carry a CZ P-09 off duty with two full spare mags. Why? Because I like the gun, (its Cajunized), I shoot it well, and I like full capacity. I don't expect to run into a battalion of Russian Spetznatz, but some ultra rare high profile incidents have gotten me to think that more is better. I have also carried a 6 shot 38 Special revolver with two speedloaders, and WAY back in the day I carried a 5 shot Charter Arms Off Duty snub, felt no worse.
Good for you. I carried my P09 (with RMR on it) for a week or so when the P07 was off to Primary Machine for the RMR install/refinishing and I was just miserable. It wasn't the weight, it was that nagging feeling that everyone knew I was carrying it because it was sticking out so far. Maybe it was just me and no one else could tell, but I really was uncomfortable with it.
Same for the Pre B CZ 85. I carried it a time or two and just didn't feel good about it. I gave the holster to my youngest son for his CZ 75 SA and went back to the Compacts (P07 and lately the project CZ 75 Compact, at times).
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I hope that we can agree that what the other person's comfort level is their comfort level, not everyone's.
Pretty much sums it up, right there!!!
The bad thing is that not only the CCW, but the climate, work cloths, etc. is part of that determining factor. (as M1 was eluding to)
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I just pick the weapon I feel most comfortable with. My top two EDC recently gas been my Kimber Ultra CDP in .45acp or my Sig320C 9mm. 7 vs 15, and I always carry a spare mag and a set of cuffs. Capacity is just another thing to argue about, like caliber wars. Shoot and carry what you shoot and carry best.
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I always carry a spare mag and a set of cuffs.
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Just curious about the cuffs. Are you in law enforcement?
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I always carry a spare mag and a set of cuffs.
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Just curious about the cuffs. Are you in law enforcement?
Yes. I train and highly recommend that my officers carry a set on them when they carry off duty. I was involved in one situation where a set would have been very handy, and a police response was delayed.
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I always carry a spare mag and a set of cuffs.
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Just curious about the cuffs. Are you in law enforcement?
Yes. I train and highly recommend that my officers carry a set on them when they carry off duty. I was involved in one situation where a set would have been very handy, and a police response was delayed.
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Be safe out there.
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Thanks
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In the early 80's, when I worked that small department, my duty rig weight 13.5 lbs. Didn't know that till I weighed it one night on a big digital scale.
Colt 1911 with 4 mags. in pouches, double handcuff case w/2 sets of handcuffs, radio, mace, the belt, holster, mag pouches, radio pouch, mace pouch, and four keepers to keep it lined up with my pants belt. And two of those long heavy duty tie wrap temporary/one use cuffs in the sweatband of my hat. Never used those either, but I carried them, every day. Only cuffed one guy in 4 years. Never pulled the gun (1911) on anyone. Old days, old ways.
Oh, you couldn't have paid me to carry a 9MM in those days. Now I carry one fairly often.
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Capacity is just another thing to argue about, like caliber wars.
It's really not, though. No one argues that lower capacity is better. The OP isn't even arguing that less is better. He's justifying settling for less because he knows fewer rounds is worse. And even though he offers reasons why the revolver is a good choice, the title of this thread tells us what the thread is really about. If the people who start these threads didn't know their choice was questionable, there'd be no reason to start the thread to begin with. ;)
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I agree that the thought itself is not argumentative but give it time it'll get there.
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Capacity is just another thing to argue about, like caliber wars.
It's really not, though. No one argues that lower capacity is better. The OP isn't even arguing that less is better. He's justifying settling for less because he knows fewer rounds is worse. And even though he offers reasons why the revolver is a good choice, the title of this thread tells us what the thread is really about. If the people who start these threads didn't know their choice was questionable, there'd be no reason to start the thread to begin with. ;)
Well I know the OP pretty well, so I think I can speak for him when saying.....he doesn't think a few rounds is "settling" or are "worse", or that the choice of less rounds is "questionable", its more about wanting to know why 16 rounds is enough,or is it......maybe 14 plus 2 extra mags of 14 each for 42 rounds is enough....or is it??? Maybe having something is really closest to a best answer.....in general, unique circumstances aside, what ever makes you "feel" safer is maybe the placebo we each want/need ;)
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I didn't think he was either. I was just giving my opinion on the subject and my experience on these weapons forums. I'm sure if the OP can speak for himself.
I've been carrying a sidearm professionally and as an civilian for over 30 years now and I've seen and heard this subject get contentious quite a bit. Just passing along my opinion. I think that's what these forums are for?
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*chuckling* Who was that masked man?
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I like a semi over a revolver. Sure the larger 16 rd mag is great, but the truth is................I hate cleaning revolvers!!
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Last year, I found myself with a single stack, sub-compact 9mm and really regretted not having my Glock 19. The firearm was never presented in this neighborhood scenario. The police response was delayed. Being honest, the distance between the suspect and myself was beyond my ability to be proficient with that handgun. The man was arrested without incident but my Glock 19 (soon to add a P-07) is my carry gun.
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Unfortunately, a lot of bad guys run in packs - and quite a few carry guns. I prefer to carry way more rounds than I might need, rather than end up needing more rounds and not have them.
If one avoids the bad side of town, one might not ever need any more than a few rounds. That's fine if you know where to avoid. But if in an unfamiliar town with vehicle issues requiring taking the first exit off the expressway, for example, one might not have any idea about the nature of the area. Also, I wonder where the thugs go for easy pickings when the pickings get slim on their home turf?
Also, nowadays gangs of people like to block the highway and they sometimes decide to mob the cars that stop for their shenanigans. If 6 or more thugs try to mob my car, I will want more than 6 or 7 (or even 10) rounds at my defense. I don't like the idea of having my head bashed in by a thrown concrete block (like that trucker during the LA riots) while I'm reloading my single stack pistol.
Yeah, odds are few of us will be faced with that scenario - but then again, someone, somewhere has been there and someone, somewhere will be there in the future.
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Most bad guys run away once the shooting starts, and if you have a group of 6 or more try to mob my car shooting will be the last thing I'm doing. I'll be to busy driving over and thru them.
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In the end it's the fact you were carrying and gave yourself a chance, against what ever situation most people think will never happen to them. For me personally I like capacity and the most gun I can conceal. So it's usually a full size service weapon or the p07 with the plus 2 bases. I do have my quirks though, mostly 9 on rare rare rare occasion a 45 never anything else. Firm believer in having more in the gun so if I have +2 extensions their in the gun not on my hip, I think the speed/tac reload is the biggest over hype nonsense and the way it is being taught is a great way to get dead
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Most bad guys run away once the shooting starts, and if you have a group of 6 or more try to mob my car shooting will be the last thing I'm doing. I'll be to busy driving over and thru them.
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Driving over and through them would be effective - as long as there is no other stopped cars immediately in front and behind you and on either side of you and also assumming they are mobbing from the front or rear and not the sides of your car where athe doors are...