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GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: Scarlett Pistol on February 23, 2017, 01:14:41 AM

Title: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on February 23, 2017, 01:14:41 AM
Looking for your favorite coated 9mm bullets. How did they perform? How was bullet seating with your CZ's (plunk test)? Powders they did best with when you loaded them? Any other important info or reasons these are you preferences. If you have a few please feel free to share them all! Looking forward to what you all have to share!
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Old Rocket on February 23, 2017, 01:29:47 AM
Acme 9mm 147 3.3gr n320 1.120 oal
BBI 9mm 125 4.3gr 7625 1.10 oal
Acme and BBI .40 200gr 4.1gr wst, 3.8gr Ramshot Competition 1.155 oal reamed ts40
Have shot a lot of bullets in competition out of czs and these are my go to
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on February 23, 2017, 01:39:18 AM
Excellent! Keep em coming!
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on February 23, 2017, 05:19:04 AM
ACME
124, 135 and 147 in 9mm, powder used N320, Prima V and e3
180 and 200 in .40, powder ETR7 and e3
175, 200 and 230 in .45 ACP, Ram Shot Competition
240 in .44 Spl. and Magnum, Unique
I have found ACME to be the most consistent and accurate coated bullets for my guns.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: inspector1999 on February 23, 2017, 06:20:54 AM
125 Black Bullets CN - 3.8 grains of Titegroup at 1.10

I have tried Blue Bullets, Bayou, Acme and H&S bullets at 124 or 125.  Black Bullets (BBI) are accurate, consistent coating and always made advertised weight.  They are also inexpensive include shipping and are easy to deal with.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: marc82much on February 23, 2017, 01:26:09 PM

Looking for your favorite coated 9mm bullets. How did they perform? How was bullet seating with your CZ's (plunk test)? Powders they did best with when you loaded them? Any other important info or reasons these are you preferences. If you have a few please feel free to share them all! Looking forward to what you all have to share!


Bayou Bullets is a great choice. Green. Used Titegroup.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: oldfrank on February 23, 2017, 02:56:42 PM
I have used Bayou 135gr RN (I was splitting the difference between 125 and 147) with  N320, HP38 and CFE, all at 1.125. Mostly I have used plated or JHP in 9mm

I am on my third 1000 of the Acme 125 RN with HP38 at 1.099.

Accuracy and performance has been great in four different CZ's with all the coated bullets I have tried,but the TJ Conevera JHP shows a marked improvement in accuracy but not to the extent it matters in the gun games I participate in.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: J Lee on February 23, 2017, 03:29:38 PM
SNS 147gr FP NLG over WSF.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: IDescribe on February 23, 2017, 03:45:15 PM
125 Black Bullets CN

I assume this is Black Bullets International and not Precision Black Bullets, correct?


Assuming it is BBI, do you have any on hand?  Could you measure diameter for me?  BBI says they are .356, but I have read a few recent accounts of them being a little over-sized, possibly .357, and that would be very exciting if true.   8)
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: J Lee on February 23, 2017, 04:13:35 PM
125 Black Bullets CN

I assume this is Black Bullets International and not Precision Black Bullets, correct?


Assuming it is BBI, do you have any on hand?  Could you measure diameter for me?  BBI says they are .356, but I have read a few recent accounts of them being a little over-sized, possibly .357, and that would be very exciting if true.   8)

I have a BBI 100 sample pack and they mic .357 to .3575.  Measured 10 with digital mic.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: IDescribe on February 23, 2017, 04:40:24 PM
BAM!  125gr BBI will be my next purchase.   ;D
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: whitecap on February 23, 2017, 05:52:35 PM
I've had very good results from SnS castings in 9mm coated. Powders are predominately Bullseyes, Win 231(HP-38) and Unique. They have heads .355,.356 &.357 available.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on February 23, 2017, 05:57:04 PM
BAM!  125gr BBI will be my next purchase.   ;D

Is it that significant of an accuracy gain or what makes the .357 coated bullets that much better than .356? You know your stuff and shoot a lot, so I'm really curious about your interest.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: bubbas4570 on February 23, 2017, 06:38:36 PM
Just do not get any brand of them wet. 
In my experience the coating turns into a feed ramp sticker,  and one that I cannot determine by sight afterwards.   And it didn't take much more than a light sprinkle of rain to do this to mine.

Other than that they worked as advertised,  just nothing I want anything do with anymore....as these were the only failure inducing ammunition I can find....good for training in random FTF's.

Before getting sprinkled, they were flawless. 
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on February 23, 2017, 06:42:16 PM
I am very curious now. What brand were these?
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: nonamehavei on February 23, 2017, 07:41:14 PM
I use Lucky13s zombiecoat 147s almost exclusively now. Great cast bullet with a neon green powder coat.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: muncie21 on February 23, 2017, 08:08:39 PM
I've only tried two brands and prefer them both..does that count? ::)

BBI in 147FP and135RN
Bayou in 124TCG, 124RN, 135RN and 147FP

Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: IDescribe on February 23, 2017, 09:27:16 PM
Is it that significant of an accuracy gain or what makes the .357 coated bullets that much better than .356? You know your stuff and shoot a lot, so I'm really curious about your interest.

James is the cast lead expert and can speak more on it than I can.  But, basically, when it comes to lead, barrel fit super important.  Most jacketed bullets are sized .355.  Most lead and coated lead are .356.    But you can shoot .356 jacketed bullets in 9mm Luger, and you can shoot .357 or even .358 lead in 9mm Luger.   Many pistols benefit from using the larger sized bullet.  They obturate better, and they're less likely to lead the barrel.  With jacketed, both of my 9mm CZs are more accurate with .356, and in the very limited testing I've done with coated lead (with my Shadow Line only), .357 seems like it's trending the same way. 

I haven't bought BBI in a few years, but they were the first coated bullet I used, and I liked the company a lot.  If they're producing 9mm bullets at .357, that's definitely worth heading back their way for a trial.  And by "trial" I mean I'll buy a case. ;)  Note that this is their 125gr, though.  When you go oversized, you will have to shorten OAL a few hundredths compared to standard size of the same profile, and in the case of 147gr bullets, that would likely have you seating past the mechanical limit where the interior of the case starts to narrow.  If I were set on 147gr, I wouldn't buy more than 100 from BBI to test. 

Generally speaking, ACME is my favorite coated lead company, though when it comes to 124/125gr, I have had great success with and love the Bayou 124gr TCG.  And if YOU want 147gr, you might want to try out the ACME 145gr RN.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: bubbas4570 on February 24, 2017, 10:25:10 AM
Prairie Firearms
Premium Hi-Tek supercoat projectiles
9mm 124gr RN .356

As I said earlier, they were flawless prior to the light sprinkle from the rain falling.  And the amount of precipitation falling did NOT cause me any worries with me leaving my pistol or 308AR laying unprotected on the firing line. This is why I never thought to cover the ammunition.....something in the powder coating apparently did not react well with being re wetted.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: painter on February 24, 2017, 10:55:25 AM
Prairie Firearms
Premium Hi-Tek supercoat projectiles
9mm 124gr RN .356

As I said earlier, they were flawless prior to the light sprinkle from the rain falling.  And the amount of precipitation falling did NOT cause me any worries with me leaving my pistol or 308AR laying unprotected on the firing line. This is why I never thought to cover the ammunition.....something in the powder coating apparently did not react well with being re wetted.
If those bullets are indeed powder coated, the process went completely wrong. It's impossible for properly cured powder coating to be damaged by a light sprinkling of water. Improperly cured powder, or uncured powder, will literally fall off the part without the addition of water.

Is the Hi-Tek coating powder, or some other compound?
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: IDescribe on February 24, 2017, 11:37:57 AM
Prairie Firearms doesn't use powder coat.  They use the Hi-Tek imported by Bayou Bullets. 

I just wrapped an ACME bullet, which uses the same Hi-Tek coating, in a wet white paper towel for about ten minutes, and there was zero coating transfer to the paper towel.

One of the most frequent failures in the application of Hi-Tek coating is incomplete/insufficient curing.  ACME is one of the few that cures properly.   If Prairie bullets are affected this way by water, then Prairie is most likely not curing properly. 
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: J Lee on February 24, 2017, 12:03:21 PM
Prairie Firearms doesn't use powder coat.  They use the Hi-Tek imported by Bayou Bullets. 

I just wrapped an ACME bullet, which uses the same Hi-Tek coating, in a wet white paper towel for about ten minutes, and there was zero coating transfer to the paper towel.

One of the most frequent failures in the application of Hi-Tek coating is incomplete/insufficient curing.  ACME is one of the few that cures properly.   If Prairie bullets are affected this way by water, then Prairie is most likely not curing properly.

I haven't tried ACME yet but think I will.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: IDescribe on February 24, 2017, 12:24:36 PM
I haven't tried ACME yet but think I will.

Dimensional consistency from bullet to bullet is among the best.  No curing issues.  And the coating is evenly applied.

My only warning is that [the ACME] 124gr RN seats considerably shorter than most in a CZ -- around 1.06.  They haven't caused me a problem personally, and they've been very accurate for me, but I know people start to get nervous when OAL gets really short, so it's worth mentioning.  My current preference for 124/125 is the Bayou 124gr TCG, but if this BBI (another quality producer) 125gr is oversized at .357, that could become my go-to, for CZ pistols anyway.


[Clarified who "they" referred to.]
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: J Lee on February 24, 2017, 01:01:37 PM
ID, you've got motivated to try the BBIs I've had on my loading bench since before Christmas.  Off this afternoon so will get the press set up to load with 231 and test  in my P07. Might be next week before I can chrono but the .357 results in your CZ has got me interested.

SP, sorry we've drifted a bit in your thread but this is usually how I discover.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on February 24, 2017, 02:22:42 PM
I haven't tried ACME yet but think I will.

Dimensional consistency from bullet to bullet is among the best.  No curing issues.  And the coating is evenly applied.

My only warning is that their 124gr RN seats considerably shorter than most in a CZ -- around 1.06.  They haven't caused me a problem personally, and they've been very accurate for me, but I know people start to get nervous when OAL gets really short, so it's worth mentioning.  My current preference for 124/125 is the Bayou 124gr TCG, but if this BBI (another quality producer) 125gr is oversized at .357, that could become my go-to, for CZ pistols anyway.

Deeper, equivalent, or not as deep as this little episode you helped me through? Just for reference.

THE CORRECT BULLETS:
PS- this looks terrible on the app since I put the data into html tables. View on the browser to make the data easier to read, sorry about that.

I swung by and got the correct bullets from H&S this morning. I could tell he was super embarrassed and he apologized profusely. He readily made things right, so moving along to the important stuff... Here is a picture of the correct 125 gr RNFP next to a Berry's plated 124 gr RN.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161231/38100688294932415d589a583ab611a7.jpg)

I took length measurements from a sample and I also did the plunk test. Then loaded a few dumby rounds to validate my Max OAL from the plunk test. Here's the numbers for length, Max OAL, and two working OAL's (just for the heck of it).

125 gr H&S
Avg Bullet Lngth0.5824
Standard Dev0.0007
Max OAL 1.085
Adjusted OAL (Max - 0.015) 1.07
Adjusted OAL (Max - 0.010) 1.075
Using First Working OAL
Case Length 0.75
Bullet Length 0.582
OAL 1.07
Seating Depth 0.262
Using Second Working OAL
Case Length 0.75
Bullet Length 0.582
OAL 1.075
Seating Depth 0.257
SIDE NOTE: Having to translate tables into HTML coded tables is annoying, anyone know of a tool that does it automatically?

Good news: There is lead load data for my two powders (700-X and BE-86).
Bad news: They both have longer OAL.
Good news: The seating depth now seems to be safe with my working OAL
Good news: I have seen seating depths in this range for this bullet weight. The seating depths for the bullets were deeper than mine with working OAL.
Bad news: Those are generally for jacketed hollow points, so that is not usable load data.

Summary: My seating depth seems to be within the safe limits with both working OAL (so I would use the shorter one to be safe). Without load data this means I would have to make work ups on my own. When reading and asking about this on the forum it seems like a Chronograph is a good tool, but I have also gotten direction that there are other better signs of reaching the top of pressure windows. That being said...

I am assuming that since my OAL is much shorter than the load data that exists I have greatly reduce my starting loads. Should I just go buy a chronograph or are there other legitimate ways to do this safely? If so, please share so I can have clear directions (links, articles, other posts, anything you have I'll take). Thanks again for sticking this one out with me and being patient, and thank you again for the help!

125 gr LCN700-X 1.125" OAL
STARTING LOAD
2.9 gr899 FPS 23,700 PSI
MAXIMUM LOAD
3.4 gr1,003 FPS 31,600 PSI
Source:Hodgdon Reloading Site
125 gr Lead RNBE-86 1.120" OAL
STARTING LOAD
5.1 grNA NA PSI
MAXIMUM LOAD
5.7 gr1,179 FPS NA PSI
Source:Alliant Reloader's Guide - Online/td] 
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: bsand on February 24, 2017, 02:34:26 PM
Just do not get any brand of them wet. 
In my experience the coating turns into a feed ramp sticker,  and one that I cannot determine by sight afterwards.   And it didn't take much more than a light sprinkle of rain to do this to mine.

Other than that they worked as advertised,  just nothing I want anything do with anymore....as these were the only failure inducing ammunition I can find....good for training in random FTF's.

Before getting sprinkled, they were flawless.
This could be the reason I had two FTF last match. It was raining hard, and I kept picking up the last round I unchambered and putting back into my magazine. They got wet!

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: zormpas on February 24, 2017, 05:53:08 PM
Bayouuuuuuuuuuuu!
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on February 24, 2017, 06:25:11 PM
The 2 easiest ways to tell if a bullet using the Hi-Tek coating is coated and cured correctly right out of the box, 1st, can you see through the coating, does the coating appear translucent? 2nd do they have a strong odor of burning wire when fired. If you find either then the bullet is not coated or cured correctly no matter who makes the bullet. Just because a big name in the industry makes the bullet does not mean they know how to apply or cure the coating and the evidence is overwhelming in the market.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: mrcabinet on February 24, 2017, 09:30:30 PM
I'll throw another vote in for Lucky 13 Zombies. The 125 gr 9mm are great - been shooting them for almost three years now. Great product, great service and great guys to deal with.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: bubbas4570 on February 25, 2017, 11:57:24 AM
The 2 easiest ways to tell if a bullet using the Hi-Tek coating is coated and cured correctly right out of the box, 1st, can you see through the coating, does the coating appear translucent? 2nd do they have a strong odor of burning wire when fired. If you find either then the bullet is not coated or cured correctly no matter who makes the bullet. Just because a big name in the industry makes the bullet does not mean they know how to apply or cure the coating and the evidence is overwhelming in the market.
After reading the replies above, and yours, I am inclined to think the coating is incorrectly cured.  I did not think the coating is quite as "thick" as it should be (looking at other coated boolits), and I do not notice an "off" smell while firing, but the coating is definitely nothing like the other coatings I have seen in the above pictures.  Although might even are green, they do not seem nearly as bright or (for lack of any other descriptor) like the candy coating of an M&M...just think, more along the lines of a tumble lube coat.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: TexanFX2 on February 25, 2017, 05:47:15 PM
Another vote for Bayou Bullets 124gr TCG
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: extremist on February 25, 2017, 05:53:49 PM
I took length measurements from a sample and I also did the plunk test. Then loaded a few dumby rounds to validate my Max OAL from the plunk test. Here's the numbers for length, Max OAL, and two working OAL's (just for the heck of it).

125gr H&S
Avg Bullet Lngth   0.5824
Standard Dev   0.0007
Max OAL    1.085
Adjusted OAL (Max - 0.015)    1.07
Adjusted OAL (Max - 0.010)    1.075

Using First Working OAL
Case Length    0.75
Bullet Length    0.582
OAL   1.07
Seating Depth   0.262

Using Second Working OAL
Case Length    0.75
Bullet Length    0.582
OAL   1.075
Seating Depth   0.257

SIDE NOTE: Having to translate tables into HTML coded tables is annoying, anyone know of a tool that does it automatically?

Deeper, equivalent, or not as deep as this little episode you helped me through? Just for reference.

Your OAL's correspond to what I use on my reloads and they work flawlessly in my SP01 Shadow, Phantom, Scorpion and PPQs.


[Mods removed the quote for clarity]
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on February 26, 2017, 08:13:38 AM
I haven't tried ACME yet but think I will.

Dimensional consistency from bullet to bullet is among the best.  No curing issues.  And the coating is evenly applied.

My only warning is that [the ACME] 124gr RN seats considerably shorter than most in a CZ -- around 1.06.  They haven't caused me a problem personally, and they've been very accurate for me, but I know people start to get nervous when OAL gets really short, so it's worth mentioning.  My current preference for 124/125 is the Bayou 124gr TCG, but if this BBI (another quality producer) 125gr is oversized at .357, that could become my go-to, for CZ pistols anyway.


[Clarified who "they" referred to.]

This just to show how different the CZ chamber leade's can be:
In my un-throated P-09 I can get the ACME 124 bullet to plunk at 1.126 OAL
In my Un-throated Shadow I get the 124 bullet out to 1.120 OAL
All the throated guns take the bullet out to 1.150 OAL, I didn't keep a log on what they all were prior to throating. The throating process takes all of 10 minutes to do and has no effect on the accuracy of the gun. The P-07/P-09 barrels are too hard for a conventional throating cutter.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: clw42 on February 27, 2017, 10:46:56 AM
I just loaded up some ACME 124's for my Shadow Target 2 at 1.070 for consistent plunks and spins.  At about 1.073 they would plunk but not spin.  I use HP-38 and I've got some at 3.9 and some at 3.7 to see which I like better.  I'm looking for soft repeatable shots.

My Standard 124gr ACME load for my Sig P226 and HK VP9 is 3.9gr at 1.090 OAL.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: painter on February 27, 2017, 11:53:43 AM
I just loaded up some ACME 124's for my Shadow Target 2 at 1.070 for consistent plunks and spins.  At about 1.073 they would plunk but not spin.  I use HP-38 and I've got some at 3.9 and some at 3.7 to see which I like better.  I'm looking for soft repeatable shots.

My Standard 124gr ACME load for my Sig P226 and HK VP9 is 3.9gr at 1.090 OAL.
Welcome!

Is your reloading process tight enough to assure less than a +.003 variance?

I, personally, would probably use 1.065.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: IDescribe on February 27, 2017, 12:34:45 PM
Exactly.  I'm loading the ACME 124gr at 1.06. 

Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: clw42 on February 27, 2017, 12:52:32 PM

Thanks for the Welcome!  Glad to be a CZ owner.

The tolerances are fairly decent I think.  I actually went to 1.068 - 1.071

I loaded 100 last night and all plunked and spun freely so I think I'm in the right window for my chamber.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: painter on February 27, 2017, 12:56:54 PM
Thanks for the Welcome! 

The tolerances are fairly decent I think.  I actually went to 1.068 - 1.071

I loaded 100 last night and all plunked and spun freely so I think I'm in the right window for my chamber.

The OAL you choose, and aim for, is totally up to you.

My thinking is if your test rounds wouldn't spin at 1.073, and you've verified your tolerance brings you to within .002 of what's too long, I'd add a little more margin for safety is all.


[Mods corrected quote]
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: cdhbrad on February 27, 2017, 01:11:27 PM
I have used Blue, Bayou, Missouri, and Falcon coated 125g TC bullets and all shoot well in my three CZs when loaded to between 1.16-1.17 OAL depending on the brass base thickness.  The throats on mine have been reamed by Bunker Arms to the length he uses on his custom 1911s in 9mm and that works for me.     
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: clw42 on February 27, 2017, 01:31:59 PM
Quote

My thinking is if your test rounds wouldn't spin at 1.073, and you've verified your tolerance brings you to within .002 of what's too long, I'd add a little more margin for safety is all.



Thanks, I'll bump it down a bit then. 
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Wobbly on February 27, 2017, 09:00:17 PM
Thanks, I'll bump it down a bit then.


Painter has made a very helpful suggestion. The objective of the extra clearance comes from a simple tolerance analysis. As a reloader and/or as a competitive shooter, you try to reduce all the possibilities of error that are under your control. Whether plinking or in competition, you'll have plenty of screw-ups to recover from without adding to the pile.

So you want a generous clearance present when even your longest round hits the chamber. That's what assures 100% functionality. That's the thinking behind what he's telling you.

 ;)
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: J Lee on February 28, 2017, 07:03:35 AM
BAM!  125gr BBI will be my next purchase.   ;D

If you want to try some first,  be happy to mail you some from my sample pack. 
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: clw42 on February 28, 2017, 08:07:28 AM
Quote
So you want a generous clearance present when even your longest round hits the chamber. That's what assures 100% functionality. That's the thinking behind what he's telling you.

Understood.  I bumped it down to 1.06

Now I just need to dial in the charge. 
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Earl Keese on March 09, 2017, 07:12:56 AM
I came across this article this morning. Not much new info, but a pretty nice list of manufacturers.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on March 09, 2017, 10:03:16 AM
Thanks for sharing, that's a good little article.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: andrew1220 on March 09, 2017, 10:13:51 AM
I've been enjoying the 147 (actually 150+ grain) Blue Bullets in my DW PM9.
Title: Re: Your most preferred coated 9mm bullets
Post by: Wobbly on March 10, 2017, 09:08:23 AM
Now I just need to dial in the charge.


So do you think you understand how to do this, using incremental loads beginning at the Starting Load and working up ? Shooting at a stable target from a sand bag or other steady perch at a new target with 6-10 rounds for each load ? Setting the target distance at the longest useful distance you usually shoot ?

Just asking.  ;)