The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZF RIMFIRES => Topic started by: EddieE on February 28, 2017, 07:15:30 PM
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Do you guys use a barrel break-in procedure?
How thorough of a cleaning procedure do you use for the first cleaning (prior to shooting)?
I pulled the trigger a couple of times and oil splattered on my face from the bolt. The gun was covered in oil when I got it. I will clean the barrel, chamber, etc. and oil appropriately. Should I take the bolt apart and clean it? That seems excessive to me.
Knowing that I will keep this baby for a lifetime, I want to ensure I treat it right and have a lifetime of fun with it. If you have a procedure that works for you, please link it or outline it.
Thanks
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Usually, I read the manual, and if it doesn't advise a break-in, I just shoot it. The oil spattering part sounds as though a wipe-down was in order, but my 455 says the bolt shouldn't need to be taken apart for normal cleaning. I leave to your oil-spattered face to decide on that one. :)
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Clean it well before first time using (you already have done that).
Clean it again after the first outing and don't clean barrel anymore for hundreds/thousands of rounds or until you see the accuracy drop.
If you are not planning to shot it regularly, after range session pull one oiled patch and two - three dry patches. Nothing more than that needed. Next range trip it will take first 10-20 shots to condition the barrel and get your accuracy back.
Bolt - clean and light oil on the outside. While cleaning your rifle, just a wipe it down and put another LIGHT coat of oil.
Wipe the outside of entire rifle with silicon cloth or lite spray of ballistol and wipe before storing it.
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Here u go not a bunch of secrets at all just common sense.More damage has been done to barrels from cleaning than shooting ask your gunsmith. :
http://riflebarrels.com/support/22-rimfire-maintenance/
R
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I've never done a break in procedure for a rimfire.
I shoot a lot of .17HMR...usually 3-4000 rounds per year. I will run a wet patch through the bore, then brush a couple strokes, then a couple dry patches - a couple times a year, and that's it.
Both my .17 cal CZ barrels just seem to shoot tighter and tighter every year - they settle more and more as they naturally polish. I'm at around 8 or 9000 through one and about 5000 through the other...I'm guessing I'll get at least 20,000 very accurate rounds out of both of them...unless they fall off unexpectedly.
then i'll just buy another barrel.
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Sigh...
Here we go again...
This could be applied to ANY firearm, but there's seemingly more FUD involved when the firearm is a rimfire.
You should always clean your guns after every use - except when you shouldn't. Powder residue will corrode your barrel except you'll wear your barrel out cleaning it. Softer than gunmetal bronze and/or nylon brushes can't possibly wear your barrel out but never use cotton patches as they'll ruin the crown and wear the barrel prematurely. You should always coat the inside of a freshly cleaned barrel with gun oil, except that will hydro-lock your gun next time you fire it so you really should use {insert fave brand of CLP here}. Dirty barrels are far more accurate than clean ones except nothing centers like a freshly cleaned barrel. Barrel accuracy degrades, and corrosion sets in after the third round, except for the guy who has shot exactly 15,348,723 rounds since the last cleaning and his barrel looks brand new. The previous is only valid if you use {insert fave brand of ammo here}. If you use {insert hated brand of ammo here}, your barrel will tie itself into a knot, and your cat will barf on your computer keyboard. Match shooters clean their barrels every 10-15 rounds, except the champ who has never cleaned his 50 Y.O. gun. Hoppe's #9 was good enough for grandpa, its good enough for me; but its outdated and you really should use {insert fave CLP here}. You should only run patches with a loop unless you're using a jag. Never use bronze brushes, nylon ones are clearly inferior. You'll wear your gun out cleaning it, except you'll wear it out from the unburned grit and glass particles left by every shot! Don't ever let your cleaning rod touch the inside of the barrel as soft aluminum will damage a hard steel barrel, except that the aluminum oxide on the soft aluminum rod will abrade the barrel. But soft brass/bronze rods won't hurt anything except you should use stainless steel as it doesn't flex as much. Don't forget to always brush or swab from the breech to the muzzle as this is the way the bullet travels - except swabbing/brushing from the muzzle to the breech reverses the the "flow" of crud so it won't migrate from the chamber to the farthest parts of the barrel. If you shot corrosive ammo, spray Windex down the barrel but never use ammonia under these circumstances, put your gun in the dishwasher instead. A good, stiff cleaning rod is best; especially when it is a nice flexible cleaning cord. One should always use a 1 piece rod, the 3 sectioned ones travel better. Clean your gun at the range, but its OK to wait until you get home. Never use {whatever} to clean your rifle, it will cause flash rust within .0352 microseconds; its far better to use {another whatever} because it will cause buildup that will clog your barrel the very first time its used. Its best to use the {whatever military} cleaning technique except its outdated and ineffective; better to use the technique employed by {whatever police dept.} as everyone knows all cops' guns are perpetually dirty. The 15 step, all intensive, 3 hour, 18 patch method is best, just run 1 patch through the bbl and throw the gun back in the truck for next time.
That should pretty much sum up where this thread will end up going - did I miss anything?
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Sigh...
Here we go again...
This could be applied to ANY firearm, but there's seemingly more FUD involved when the firearm is a rimfire.
You should always clean your guns after every use - except when you shouldn't. Powder residue will corrode your barrel except you'll wear your barrel out cleaning it. Softer than gunmetal bronze and/or nylon brushes can't possibly wear your barrel out but never use cotton patches as they'll ruin the crown and wear the barrel prematurely. You should always coat the inside of a freshly cleaned barrel with gun oil, except that will hydro-lock your gun next time you fire it so you really should use {insert fave brand of CLP here}. Dirty barrels are far more accurate than clean ones except nothing centers like a freshly cleaned barrel. Barrel accuracy degrades, and corrosion sets in after the third round, except for the guy who has shot exactly 15,348,723 rounds since the last cleaning and his barrel looks brand new. The previous is only valid if you use {insert fave brand of ammo here}. If you use {insert hated brand of ammo here}, your barrel will tie itself into a knot, and your cat will barf on your computer keyboard. Match shooters clean their barrels every 10-15 rounds, except the champ who has never cleaned his 50 Y.O. gun. Hoppe's #9 was good enough for grandpa, its good enough for me; but its outdated and you really should use {insert fave CLP here}. You should only run patches with a loop unless you're using a jag. Never use bronze brushes, nylon ones are clearly inferior. You'll wear your gun out cleaning it, except you'll wear it out from the unburned grit and glass particles left by every shot! Don't ever let your cleaning rod touch the inside of the barrel as soft aluminum will damage a hard steel barrel, except that the aluminum oxide on the soft aluminum rod will abrade the barrel. But soft brass/bronze rods won't hurt anything except you should use stainless steel as it doesn't flex as much. Don't forget to always brush or swab from the breech to the muzzle as this is the way the bullet travels - except swabbing/brushing from the muzzle to the breech reverses the the "flow" of crud so it won't migrate from the chamber to the farthest parts of the barrel. If you shot corrosive ammo, spray Windex down the barrel but never use ammonia under these circumstances, put your gun in the dishwasher instead. A good, stiff cleaning rod is best; especially when it is a nice flexible cleaning cord. One should always use a 1 piece rod, the 3 sectioned ones travel better. Clean your gun at the range, but its OK to wait until you get home. Never use {whatever} to clean your rifle, it will cause flash rust within .0352 microseconds; its far better to use {another whatever} because it will cause buildup that will clog your barrel the very first time its used. Its best to use the {whatever military} cleaning technique except its outdated and ineffective; better to use the technique employed by {whatever police dept.} as everyone knows all cops' guns are perpetually dirty. The 15 step, all intensive, 3 hour, 18 patch method is best, just run 1 patch through the bbl and throw the gun back in the truck for next time.
That should pretty much sum up where this thread will end up going - did I miss anything?
I think you got it all. Mostly, anyway. :)
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ok, I'll ask. Zormpas,
(again, just asking, how do you explain all the rounds Joel has put thru his Kadet .22lr barrel? I think last count around 50,000 rounds. and please take time to his ' I haven't cleaned it yet" posts.
we all know 'best' good procedures for cleaning after shooting. I generally agree, however, I also appreciate being able to shoot, shoot again, shoot a lot.. again before a good cleaning. And, the CZ's I own, just seem to love it.. practical accuracy still same.
respectfully,
K in MI
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Just for the record, I did go on a .22 cleaning spree over Christmas, but it was because the accuracy finally did start dropping off a little on the Kadet and on a Savage 22LR rifle. I may not have to really clean them again any time soon. I will run one or two dry patches down the bores occasionally, but not religiously. I DO clean the chamber, breech face, firing pin hole, extractor, ramp, and magazines regularly (400-600 rounds) on the Kadet and other .22s.
Joe
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CZ Rimfires have hand lapped barrels. There's really no need for a barrel break-in procedure on a barrel that is already mirror polished.
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CZ Rimfires have hand lapped barrels. There's really no need for a barrel break-in procedure on a barrel that is already mirror polished.
I thought they were hydraulically lapped James. Did they go to hand lapping?
That would be fairly labor intensive for a ~$400 production sporter.
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CZ Rimfires have hand lapped barrels. There's really no need for a barrel break-in procedure on a barrel that is already mirror polished.
So, are the high end barrels (lilja, krieger, etc.) that I hear so much about people breaking in the barrel properly not hand lapped and they need a proper break-in procedure? If CZ is hand lapping their barrels at this price point, they must have some cheap labor!
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From the FAQ on CZ-USA... http://cz-usa.com/support/faq/ emphasis added
Q: ?Why are CZ rifles so accurate??
A: CZ rifles produced at our factory in the Czech Republic feature cold hammer forged barrels. Massive rotary hammers reshape the steel around a hardened mandrel that runs down the inside of the barrel, leaving its reverse image imprinted in the bore ? the lands and grooves of rifling.
Hydraulically lapped at the factory, our barrels need no ?break-in.? Any burrs or irregularities that might catch the bullet jacket and create copper fowling have already been polished away by the time the barrel is fit to the rifle.
The resulting barrels have built a reputation for accuracy, from the 455 rimfire platform to the Ultimate Hunting Rifle.
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Hydraulically lapped at the factory, our barrels need no ?break-in.? Any burrs or irregularities that might catch the bullet jacket and create copper fowling have already been polished away by the time the barrel is fit to the rifle.
Well there we go!
I've got a few photos from our borecam at work that I should share. One is the 455 Varmint Evolution with the Bull Barrel. It's mind blowing.
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Hydraulically lapped at the factory, our barrels need no ?break-in.? Any burrs or irregularities that might catch the bullet jacket and create copper fowling have already been polished away by the time the barrel is fit to the rifle.
Well there we go!
I've got a few photos from our borecam at work that I should share. One is the 455 Varmint Evolution with the Bull Barrel. It's mind blowing.
I'd like to see a few shots of the chamber/leade. There have been some reports on the interwebz that this has been a problem area on the 455.
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I very rarely clean my .22 barrels. When I was a kid, we had an old Remington bolt action .22, the type on which you couldn't remove the bolt without disassembling the gun.
That gun NEVER got cleaned and it was deadly accurate with cheap iron sights.
I got my 452 Lux for Christmas, 2006. I shoot it a lot. Last year I took the bolt apart and it was clean. I mean it literally had nothing in it except a little oil. I swabbed and wiped it down, re-oiled it and put it back together. I'll check it again in another ten years if I'm still around.
As far as running a brush down the barrel? If I'm storing a .22 for a while, I'll squirt the barrel full of CLP and let it run out, then store it in the gun box bore down. When I take it out, I'll push a patch through it with my good ole' aluminum cleaning rod and a plastic barb.
Your mileage may vary.
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[/quote]
I'd like to see a few shots of the chamber/leade. There have been some reports on the interwebz that this has been a problem area on the 455.
[/quote]
Not sure if historically there have been issues, but my gun is with the gunsmith and I had him go over it...chamber, crown, and everything in between. He said everything looked perfect. I had told him to polish, lap or do whatever he needed to the barrel to get it perfect. He said nothing was required.
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The interweb is a strange and crazy place to put a lot truth in when it comes to 455 barrels.There are pristine barrels that shoot like turds and some that are just ok inside by someones opinion but they shoot lights out so just go shoot them get some seat time and see if anything needs attention.
To go into a smith and get a report doesn't produce any reference as to how it groups.Nothing is free spend some change on ammo and get that baseline.It is a fun break in procedure if you so desire. But once again your gun your rules.That's my 2?.
R
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so, I agree w/ Ronnie guy , kinda , sorta..
I admit I didn't read every thread.. my .02 being around .22's a long time.. my brand new .455 is stellar accuracy, opcen sights.. I cleaned.. shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. haven't really cleaned outside of quick oil job, thing is accurate, reliable. again, I just shooting at 25yds for fun.. and some vermin. I hope to do a real clean up at about 1000rnd.. nothing yet make me want to do more. a quick overall, a quick barrel swap occasionally, I suspect the I am different than some here. I just a shooter. who cares. I am not out to shoot accuracy events. I just shoot to hit. My 455 does that at 25yds open sights, day in day out. no excessive 'break in ' period. dang accurate and reliable. I suggest, it just gets better over time as things break in.. wear in.. etc. I have no worries to hit a small target at 25yds. just saying.
k in MI
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I don't think a barrel break in procedure is needed on a rimfire. I give the barrel a normal cleaning on a new rifle with patches and a brush, I only pull brushes through mine from the muzzle I also use a well fitting bore guide, after the initial cleaning I use a nylon brush to clean the chamber/leade area to remove carbon/lead build up and patches for the bore, this procedure confirmed with a Hawkeye borescope and it does work. I sometimes will use a patchworm to clean as I try to keep the rod out of the gun as much as possible. I personally would never use a bore snake in my rifles. You also should always clean your rimfire after shooting as the debris in the barrel will attract moisture and could cause problems if left in there for a long period of time.
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Hydraulically lapped at the factory, our barrels need no ?break-in.? Any burrs or irregularities that might catch the bullet jacket and create copper fowling have already been polished away by the time the barrel is fit to the rifle.
Well there we go!
I've got a few photos from our borecam at work that I should share. One is the 455 Varmint Evolution with the Bull Barrel. It's mind blowing.
Good or bad? I have been looking at these 455 things and am torn on what to get. I almost feel as though a heavy barrel in a 22LR is simply overkill, yet I still want something super accurate. Of course, weight is always a consideration along with the ability to directly attach a bipod. I also like the concept of being able to swap fir a .17 barrel.
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Fixed post below (hopefully!)
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Thanks James but the pics di not work. I switched to the IMGUR thing a couple weeks ago and it seems to work well, and much better than the bogged down bucket! It is different, and took me a bit to figure out I need to click on my name in the upper riht to give me post options.
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Good or bad?
Good.
Here is a NIB, unfired 455 Varmint barrel.
(http://i.imgur.com/DYpEFW8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PQMIhX3.jpg)
Here is a NIB Ruger SR556 (note the rust pitting)
(http://i.imgur.com/NTt3lr0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cf317a6.jpg)
Here is a NIB Winchester M70 Extreme SS (note the voids in the metal, but pretty good)
(http://i.imgur.com/qRCVxuK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ecVl7q1.jpg)
And a NIB Mini-14 (Factory test fired, I am assuming)
(http://i.imgur.com/cEwyBWN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/emApz2C.jpg)
I didn't save the name of this one, but IIRC, it was a Savage 10 Predator. What looks like chatter marks could be from the button rifling process.
(http://i.imgur.com/pmMDpL3.jpg)
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All I can say is WOW! O0
Now the issue, to heavy barrel a .22 or not? O0
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Did you get any pictures of the leade to the rifling?
There have been some complaints about CZ's reamer life cycle/performance on 455's on other forums.
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That 455 is long gone, but I can clean up my 455 and one of my boys 452's and get a comparison.
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Thanks James. It would be interesting.
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Did you get any pictures of the leade to the rifling?
There have been some complaints about CZ's reamer life cycle/performance on 455's on other forums.
Sorry, I didn't get a chance to get these scrubbed down for a perfect comparision, but hopefully these will work.
Top is a '15 452 Scout. Round count is ~200. Bottom is a '15 455 Ultralux. Round count is ~1,500 rounds. It doesn't show well in the pictures, but the 452 seems to have more of a pronounced step from the throat to the lead, whereas the 455 is more of a gradual taper.
I should note that both barrels are still pretty dirty for detailed comparison pics. Hopefully you can see what you are looking for.
(http://i.imgur.com/F9zv3b5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1yibnXY.jpg)
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The Scout shows some burrs at the beginning of the rifling. That has been the complaint from some.
The Ultra looks very good.
Thanks for taking the time James!
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The Scout shows some burrs at the beginning of the rifling. That has been the complaint from some.
A few too many chambers reamed? Is that the suspicion?
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The Scout shows some burrs at the beginning of the rifling. That has been the complaint from some.
A few too many chambers reamed? Is that the suspicion?
Yes, and that one isn't as bad as some that have been pictured.
There are other causes possible, but pushing tool life past its' optimum usefullness is main suspect.
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Those photos of the chamber leade area are what I have seen on several CZ's, some look good to with no burrs. I have seen the burrs in other brands to including higher priced brands tho not as much. The best looking chambers I have seen on factory rifles are Anschutz and Sako. Some of the worst chambers and crowns I have seen are in the Rem 541S and T models. For the record I use a Hawkeye bore scope to check these.