The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZ Scorpion EVO => Topic started by: armoredman on April 11, 2017, 01:03:06 AM
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Loaded question, as I doubt many people here have multiple Scorpions with different trigegrs in...but you never know. I love shooting my Scorpion, but the trigger really does need help.
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I sent my trigger pack to CZ Custom to install their trigger and disconnector. It was very expensive at around $400 for the parts and services but well worth it. There is almost no take-up, minimal reset and behaves like a crisp single action trigger. A joy to shoot.
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Honestly I am happy with my HBi flat trigger and my HBi trigger spring kit.
Of course I'm sure the CZC trigger is nicer but $400 for a trigger is plain crazy for my budget.
OP try the spring kit and home polish job first and then if your not happy go the CZC route.
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I went from HBI springs to CZCustom trigger + trigger job. Absolutely no comparison. CZCustom smokes the springs.
If you don't want to spend the big money though, the springs are an awesome bang for the buck. HBI springs won't shorten the pull, shorten the reset, break crisper and be overall less mushy like the CZCustom, but it will be a lighter pull. Not as light as my 3# CZCustom pull though.
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I went with CZ custom kit and switched out the trigger shoe with the HB Theta forward trigger. CZ Custom kit is spectacular but I can't believe how much I appreciate the theta trigger shoe. Big fan of flat triggers. Ran about 500 rounds with the custom kit but flat trigger is an appreciated upgrade.
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It is kind of a loaded question, as just about anything is an improvement over the standard trigger. I have the Shooters Element spring kit and flat trigger and the CZ Custom disconnect and I'm very pleased with the results.
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I liked my HBI springs for being on a budget but I like my CZ custom installed and tuned by me better.
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Install the HBI springs to lighten trigger pull, then modify the stock trigger with metal shims to shorten up the trigger pull and take out the trigger over travel. It is pretty simple to remove 70% of the long trigger travel.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=86290.15
- DanT Phoenix, AZ
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Ive bought bleep near everything, and what I kept is in my sig...
For actual performance improvements vs just items for comfort
That HBI spring is a lifesaver
Accuracy improved with free float aftermarket handguard
Easier to stay on target with the SLR compensator when rapid firing
Any brand ext charge handle is a must.
Either trim factory or pick an aftermarket safety set
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Holding out on a trigger, aftermarket is warming up in last few months a cheaper "under $250 friggin dollars" might come around soon
If you have the patience , and want to go rediculous you could polish all the trigger/fcg parts up to 3 micron diamond and compound finish with leather strops. I have just under 4lb pull it's still a friggin lonnnng pull but its smooth
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HBI springs are awesome for the money. I installed them in mine and love it. I may yet work more on the take up.
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Too much money right now, I'll just have to see if it wears in like my P-01 trigger did back in the day.
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HBI springs and the shooters element trigger shoe it's a completly different gun
**edit**
Plus shooting a thousand plus rounds through it as well
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HBI springs and the shooters element trigger shoe it's a completly different gun
This is my setup and I totally agree!
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I installed the HBI spring and also polished all of he internal trigger parts. It is a big improvement over the factory trigger.
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I installed the HBI spring and also polished all of he internal trigger parts. It is a big improvement over the factory trigger.
Not even close to the CZCustom with no polish
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I would seriously stay with trigger upgrade and a spring kit. Unless you have money to blow.
The scorpion is a blaster gun and therefore I don't feel the need for a better trigger.
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Thr aftermarket has been expanding pretty good since last year. Eventually there might be a few companies on board with drop in trigger kits. Since the scorpion trigger pack comes out in a contained unit its doable.
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I would seriously stay with trigger upgrade and a spring kit. Unless you have money to blow.
The scorpion is a blaster gun and therefore I don't feel the need for a better trigger.
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Would agree if you don't SBR the Thing
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I would seriously stay with trigger upgrade and a spring kit. Unless you have money to blow.
The scorpion is a blaster gun and therefore I don't feel the need for a better trigger.
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Would agree if you don't SBR the Thing
Mine is SBR'd though lol. I don't know just the cost of the CZ trigger is too much for me.
I have nice triggers in most of my guns but the scorpion just doesn't need it for me.
Shadow Custom has a nice trigger.
AR has a geissele SD-3G
Bolt gun has a Huber Concepts two stage.
P01 has a complete CGW kit
Maybe one day when I run out of other things to buy or IF I ever get to shoot one I'll see how much I want it.
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I would seriously stay with trigger upgrade and a spring kit. Unless you have money to blow.
The scorpion is a blaster gun and therefore I don't feel the need for a better trigger.
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Would agree if you don't SBR the Thing
Mine is SBR'd though lol. I don't know just the cost of the CZ trigger is too much for me.
I have nice triggers in most of my guns but the scorpion just doesn't need it for me.
Shadow Custom has a nice trigger.
AR has a geissele SD-3G
Bolt gun has a Huber Concepts two stage.
P01 has a complete CGW kit
Maybe one day when I run out of other things to buy or IF I ever get to shoot one I'll see how much I want it.
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True the CZCustom Trigger is Pricey : It's a fun gun to shoot regardless of trigger pull
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Plus with nobody currently doing Prototypes for the EVO Trigger I don't see any other option in the near future. I just asked the Trigger Guy I know if he's doing one. So far haven't heard Back.
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I installed the HBI spring and also polished all of he internal trigger parts. It is a big improvement over the factory trigger.
Not even close to the CZCustom with no polish
But it only cost me like $15 and 1/2 hour of my time. :o
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Spearjunkie, if it makes you happy and is what you wanted, then you are golden. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the other. Case in point - I spend 30 minutes casting 150 bullets, and 3 hours powder coating/cooking/sizing/powder coating/cooking/sizing. Then I can blow that 150 rounds in about 1/2 hour, if I am just having fun. Waste of time and expense? For some people, a hideous waste. For me, just having fun. So if your cheap trigger mod and hand fitting makes it good for you, then it is good. I'd try it, but I am all thumbs sometimes, and I'd probably ruin something irreplaceable...:D
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Spearjunkie, if it makes you happy and is what you wanted, then you are golden. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the other. Case in point - I spend 30 minutes casting 150 bullets, and 3 hours powder coating/cooking/sizing/powder coating/cooking/sizing. Then I can blow that 150 rounds in about 1/2 hour, if I am just having fun. Waste of time and expense? For some people, a hideous waste. For me, just having fun. So if your cheap trigger mod and hand fitting makes it good for you, then it is good. I'd try it, but I am all thumbs sometimes, and I'd probably ruin something irreplaceable...:D
I was really surprised at the difference the spring and polishing made on the EVO trigger. I have many Glocks so the pre and over travel really don't bother me and agree with you that it is not for everyone. I have Geissele triggers in all my AR's and a Zev Fulcrum in one of my Glocks so maybe one day I'll spend the money and get the CZ trigger. If someone has a little mechanical ability and can't afford the CZ trigger, the spring kit and polishing makes a big difference at a low price.
I like the idea of casting your own bullets and blowing through them ;D
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If anyone is thinking of ordering the HBi springs, I have their drill bits and replacement screws that I can ship to you.
Beyond that (and a safety delete), I would suggest putting at least 500 rounds through your Scorpion before you start spending money on other mods. While I got the carbine and pistol, I don't view them as much more than fun toys. Both seem reliable, but neither would be my first choice for precision shooting, or home defense.
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I installed the HBI spring and also polished all of he internal trigger parts. It is a big improvement over the factory trigger.
Not even close to the CZCustom with no polish
But also not $400.
I've got the HBI springs and the SE trigger. Give that a try first. Just those two changes are a big improvement over the stock setup.
Let us know what you go with!
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Factory trigger after a few thousand rounds.
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I have at least 2-3 thou through it already. I really don't mind it the way it is, but slicking it up would be kind of neat.
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I went through the trigger the first day I had the gun. Round count 0. It's really not a complicated FCG, and I'm sure you're familiar with it by now. Some very casual touch ups on the parts that rotate against each other, kinda crush the trigger spring, and if you're feeling adventurous, cut the disconnector back a little so it doesn't load the hammer during the trigger pull. That took a few pounds out of it for me. After I put a couple hundred rounds through it, it lightened up a little more and smoothed up some. That cost $0.
I will probably do the spring, trigger shoe, and possibly work on the parts themselves more. But it is no longer agonizingly bad. I have a lot of stuff in the 2-3# range, so I like them light and short. But I'm not paying what CZC wants to get it close to that.
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There should be a New Custom Trigger inside of 6 months: Maybe even sooner if he shelves the other projects for a bit:
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I shoot suppressed mostly and noticed the trigger pack gets quite dirty form doing so...
With the HBi springs installed, the disconnector would not allow the trigger to reset after the gun had been dirtied up. This would occur around 200 rounds of suppressed shooting. It felt like there was some drag in the reset and if I went to reset the trigger slow enough, it wouldn't reset without needing a forward push from behind the trigger shoe. Mind you, at this point, the contact points in the FCG had been lightly polished and lubed, yet this still occurred.
No, the trigger shoe roll pin isn't rubbing in the lower either...
My solution has been to go back to the factory disconnector spring with about 5 coils clipped off it(just guessing...I went with trial and error cutting 1/4 of a coil off at a time until it felt "right"). I also went and lightly filed down the hammer lip that the disconnector contacts and the under lip of the disconnnector. It was obvious when I disassembled the upper from the lower that the drag I was feeling was coming from the hammer and underlip of the disconnector. Filing them loosened the fit up leaving less "drag".
Filing the disconnector and hammer, polishing the snot out of all the contact surfaces in the FCG, customizing the factory disconnector spring, and using the HBi trigger spring has my trigger pack working finally. There is little to no drag now, little to no take up, and rest is defined and smooth. It even continues to work after shooting more than 200rnds suppressed!
So ya, HBi's disconnector spring helped cause me some headaches. I felt a few other HBi sprung scorpion triggers and they all seemed to have that drag. I am surprised more people have not had reset issues...In HBi's defense, it's not soley their springs fault. It has alot to do with the fit between the hammer and disconnector.
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There should be a New Custom Trigger inside of 6 months: Maybe even sooner if he shelves the other projects for a bit:
From who?
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Really like my HBI spring kit along with their Theta trigger
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Coco you should start a thread with pictures. Or like a mega merge with DanT's shim thread. I'm sure those that don't want to spend money, but still want to improve the trigger would benefit from a group effort of what is getting done from those willing to cut on this stuff.
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If you are a "do it yourselfer", HBI Springs, standard polishing of fraction points. All the difference in the world for minimal cost.
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Coco you should start a thread with pictures. Or like a mega merge with DanT's shim thread. I'm sure those that don't want to spend money, but still want to improve the trigger would benefit from a group effort of what is getting done from those willing to cut on this stuff.
As I said : A more economical Trigger like the CZC will be available in 3-4 months maybe sooner
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As I said : A more economical Trigger like the CZC will be available in 3-4 months maybe sooner
Cajun? ALG? Not to be an owl. But, whooo whoooo who? You can't tell me blah is coming, and not give me some idea.
Honestly I'd be happy if I could get a spare trigger pack to work on, and I would have already bought one if they weren't priced the same as unicorn piss...
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Agree with Daver - spring and polishing made a world of difference. CZC makes great stuff, but wasn't available when I was building the SBR.
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Holding out on a trigger, aftermarket is warming up in last few months a cheaper "under $250 friggin dollars" might come around soon
If you have the patience , and want to go rediculous you could polish all the trigger/fcg parts up to 3 micron diamond and compound finish with leather strops. I have just under 4lb pull it's still a friggin lonnnng pull but its smooth
Already there CZ Custom trigger pack $221.46, I know I know but I could not resist O0
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I prefer the 2000 round polish. If it hasn't broken in after 2k rounds, I will address any issues.
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As I said : A more economical Trigger like the CZC will be available in 3-4 months maybe sooner
If it's anywhere near the quality of his Tavor trigger, I'm down for one. Are we going to do a group buy/pre-sale?
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I never took the FCG apart - I am mechanical as an old shoe, and have a hysterical fear of loosing some tiny irreplaceable spring in some dark corner of my messy hole. :'( I can say the gun is so easy to break down for normal cleaning that I couldn't believe it the first time I did it. It is also so incredibly reliable I rarely actually clean the thing. Probably a bad thing on my part. ::) :(
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I never took the FCG apart - I am mechanical as an old shoe, and have a hysterical fear of loosing some tiny irreplaceable spring in some dark corner of my messy hole.
If you seriously know that you can't do it yourself, I will do it for you if it isn't welded.
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I never took the FCG apart - I am mechanical as an old shoe, and have a hysterical fear of loosing some tiny irreplaceable spring in some dark corner of my messy hole. :'( I can say the gun is so easy to break down for normal cleaning that I couldn't believe it the first time I did it. It is also so incredibly reliable I rarely actually clean the thing. Probably a bad thing on my part. ::) :(
Isn't really all that more complicated to slap together than an AR's FCG. ;)
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Never built an AR15, either, last time I shot an AR rifle (M16A1), was 1984. :) My service rifle was an M14.
It's not welded, that much I know - this is the very first generation of Scorpions, still has the "Designed by Luago" on the side of the receiver.
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The factory trigger on my Scorpion was as bad as any trigger I have ever seen. The first day we shot it , about 400 rds. I knew a trigger job was in the very near future . That night I ordered the HBI trigger spring kit and the Theta Stock Red Trigger. I drilled out the welded trigger assembly and polished all the parts and installed the spring and new trigger . I have to say with a minimal cost it is a great improvement .