The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: murk23 on May 28, 2017, 03:43:03 PM
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2 days and 500 rounds in with the P10 and it's not looking good. As already identified the pistol auto forwards. I had the gun several times with both 124 gr gold dots and 124 gr hsts auto forward and then go nose down and hang up on the feed ramp. The gun also auto forwarded on an empty chamber several times. I had one failure to feed with ball ammo during an auto forward where the slide over ran the round and it got stuck at a steep angle nose up against the chamber. Both mine and my friends gun exhibited this problem. In addition to this his gun frequently drops the mag with two rounds left. Best we can figure is that the follower or a round is somehow contacting and bumping the mag catch during recoil. Kind of disappointing.
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Sadly I predicted this. Main reason I wanted to wait until all the kinks are worked out.
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Reasons why I'm holding out.
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Forgot to mention that the triggers were drastically different between the two guns out of the box. They differed in initial take up, weight and where they both broke. Fortunately mine is better, it's lighter and has almost no over travel but as a result it breaks almost all the way against the frame.
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Have you contacted CZ_USA yet? Yeah, sometimes Beta testers get the bugs, and sometimes we don't. :( Call 1-800-955-4486 on Monday morning and tell them what the problems are. I do remember the auto-forward being listed as a bonus, but not on an empty mag - that's weird.
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Got to contact them tomorrow. Unfortunately I don't see auto forwarding as a positive like some people do. This gun being a prime example of the level of uncertainty it fosters. I'm hoping cz is gonna put some horsepower behind the gun to make sure it's right since it shoots really well for me. It's definitely not ready for primetime though, choking on duty ammo.
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I have two in black and fde, and I've noticed inconsistency in the triggers and slide stops. The black on had a smooth 6lb trigger out of the box. The fde one had a grittier 5.5lb trigger with less over-travel and the trigger broke further back in the trigger guard.
The slide stop spring in the black one has much less tension than the fde. The black one actually popped off the slide stop retaining hook during a class. The fde one is strong enough that when I drive out the large roll pin, it pushes the front rail insert out of the frame. It was bent much further down than the black one and was harder to put in it's cutout on the rail insert.
The black one doesn't auto forward, but the fde one does. I think it's a function of the slide stop spring pressure. I'm going to experiment with bending the spring to find the sweet spot. I don't really like auto forward either.
I have over 1k rounds now with the black one with zero feeding issues though. Only 200 with the fde so it's too early to tell.
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CZ-USA may be closed Monday due to the holiday.
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Funny my friends is black and mine is Fde so it seems there is a difference in the color transition. His recoil spring seemed heavier as well. Try loading a mag half full of hollow points next time your out and doing slide lock reloads feeding the half empty mag. It didn't seem to choke if the mag was stacked to capacity but as soon as it was downloaded by one it would. In comparing the two guns it looks like the black one had more engagement on the slide with the slide stop as well. I was considering stoning the stop down a little where it sits under the ejector to try and get some more engagement. It does seem like the stop spring is excessively tight as well.
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I just tried my FDE to auto forward with different ammo and mags. I slammed it hard wouldn't do it for nothing. Shot a class this weekend end with 3 different ammo brands about 600 rounds no issues at all. I hope you get yours figured out. I really like the gun.
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Mine autoforwarded once, after that, it was just as normal. Fed everything i gave it, Hornaday Critical Duty, Remington 115gr JHP, cast Lee 124gr, everything ran like a top.
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Guns on it's way back to CZ.
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Guns on it's way back to CZ.
Good to hear they're taking care of it but sad to see it happen to a brand new pistol.
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Mine auto-forwards on a full magazine, no problems in ~30 reloads, but won't on anything less than full.
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My slide drops automatically when I insert a mag quite consistently. I like that feature and wish I could get other SD guns to do the same. In just over 400 rounds, I've come to really like the gun. I don't know why, but I seem to be able to shoot the P10 faster into a smaller group than most other guns. Maybe it's that it points well for me. Maybe it's something else. I don't know, but I do like the thing.
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It's isolated to hollow points and with partially loaded mags. It would chamber if they were full but only if they were full. I didn't encounter the problem at all with ball ammo so if your basing it on what your seeing with ball ammo than you probably won't encounter the problem. I'm trying to carry the gun so issues with two of the most popular carry loads are a definite no go. The gun got to the point I found it difficult to not get it to auto forward. Apparently people are seeing various frequency with it auto forwarding. Probably contingent upon round count and use.
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I'd be interested to know if you got your P10c back and how it's doing. Did they give you a rundown on replaced parts? I'm considering sending mine back, as well. I really dislike the auto forward "feature". From emailing with CZ, they say they don't advertise the auto forward because all of them don't do it...
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I love the auto forward " feature" and everyone that has shot my P-10 likes the feature. You can avoid the auto forward by not inserting the mag hard.
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Any semi automatic pistol will send the slide forward if you slam the mag in hard enough in the magwell. Kind of like slapping the buttstock of an AR will send the bolt home.
The slide stop/release is held up by the friction of the slide notch. Once the slide is jarred when seating the mag, the friction holding the slide stop/release can give way and the slide goes forward. Some pistols are more sensitive than others. Not a "feature" per say just the nature of semi automatic pistols.
I try and have the base of the palm of my support hand strike the bottom of my shooting hand during a reload so as not to have the slide auto forward. David
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I would have to agree that the slide going forward on a full magazine was one of the selling points for me. It's a defense gun an does little good to have a gun with full mag and slide back. I thought CZ designed it that way, maybe not. Not sure why you wouldn't want it to do this???
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CZ should have just cut an inch off the P-09 and called it the 10. Matter of fact that's an 07, which is a better gun the the 10c. I don't get all the love for the 10c when it's obvious that it has major issues from all the posts I'm reading here. I have the 09 and it's a far superior pistol.
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I would have to agree that the slide going forward on a full magazine was one of the selling points for me. It's a defense gun an does little good to have a gun with full mag and slide back. I thought CZ designed it that way, maybe not. Not sure why you wouldn't want it to do this???
Simple, because it's not a reliable method to load the pistol with...Now I know there's going to be a bunch of people who will disagree with me,claiming they can do it each and every time. That's ok on a square range, but what happens when it's not, and someone is shooting at you? Once at a class I took, we were doing reload drills, from low-ready shoot two rnds at target, reload and shoot two more, guy beside me was shooting a M&P, shot his first two rounds, slammed a mag in hard in a effort to auto forward, the pistol did'nt, instead of pulling the slide release, or pulling the slide back and releasing, he kept slamming the bottom of the mag, until the instructor stopped him, and used this as a example as to why relying on auto forwarding to work was a bad idea. Besides, show me a decent instructor who reccommends this as a viable method. Anyone who does, is someone who I would'nt take training from.
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Those of us that like the auto slide slam when slamming in a MAG don't rely on it we're just happy that it does that . I believe most of us know that if it doesn't slide when slammed we need to release it or pull the slide. The auto slamming slide is just a plus not " instead of"pulling the slide. Anybody that relies on the auto slam is a fool. That's like not practicing for an FTF cuz you don't think it'll ever happen.
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I would have to agree that the slide going forward on a full magazine was one of the selling points for me. It's a defense gun an does little good to have a gun with full mag and slide back. I thought CZ designed it that way, maybe not. Not sure why you wouldn't want it to do this???
Simple, because it's not a reliable method to load the pistol with...Now I know there's going to be a bunch of people who will disagree with me,claiming they can do it each and every time. That's ok on a square range, but what happens when it's not, and someone is shooting at you? Once at a class I took, we were doing reload drills, from low-ready shoot two rnds at target, reload and shoot two more, guy beside me was shooting a M&P, shot his first two rounds, slammed a mag in hard in a effort to auto forward, the pistol did'nt, instead of pulling the slide release, or pulling the slide back and releasing, he kept slamming the bottom of the mag, until the instructor stopped him, and used this as a example as to why relying on auto forwarding to work was a bad idea. Besides, show me a decent instructor who reccommends this as a viable method. Anyone who does, is someone who I would'nt take training from.
Agreed!
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Those of us that like the auto slide slam when slamming in a MAG don't rely on it we're just happy that it does that . I believe most of us know that if it doesn't slide when slammed we need to release it or pull the slide. The auto slamming slide is just a plus not " instead of"pulling the slide. Anybody that relies on the auto slam is a fool. That's like not practicing for an FTF cuz you don't think it'll ever happen.
I suspect people (myself included) tend to default the thier 'last known good configuration'.
Take light strikes as an example, how many of us tap and rack as a 1st port of call and not do the whole 'click click click click aaaaahhhh!' thing as so often heard on the ranges?
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Those of us that like the auto slide slam when slamming in a MAG don't rely on it we're just happy that it does that . I believe most of us know that if it doesn't slide when slammed we need to release it or pull the slide. The auto slamming slide is just a plus not " instead of"pulling the slide. Anybody that relies on the auto slam is a fool. That's like not practicing for an FTF cuz you don't think it'll ever happen.
Well, there are people who think auto forwarding is a viable method of reloading the pistol, like the fool in my post above. As long as one understands that it is at best, a novel trick, which could be used say, at a match to shave a few seconds off your time, or to impress your friends, (somewhere, where the worst that could happen is you get a few seconds shaved off your time, or you look a little foolish if it dosen't work right) then, by all means have fun with it. Myself, I prefer pistols that don't do it easily. I tried to get my P-10 to do it and I could'nt make it do it. But, that's fine by me.
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"Auto forward"...
If you understand physics and components of Force then "auto forward" threads and comments die as they should.
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I never, ever bet on a sidearm going automatically into battery with a full magazine inserted unless the firearm was designed to do so. I really don't know of one actually designed from the ground up to do that, but there might be one. I also have for some years about going "over the top" to release the slide, so that's no big deal for me either.
Joe Willy, have you fired a P-10C? I agree - the P-09 and P-07 are incredible pistols. My P-09 rides with me often. :)
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@armoredman
Joe Willy, have you fired a P-10C? I agree - the P-09 and P-07 are incredible pistols. My P-09 rides with me often. :)
Yes, I tried the P10 and didn't care for it. The P-09 is my favorite CZ by far.
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Fair enough. :) Right now the P-10C and the P-09 are in the safe - the Phantom rides again! ;D
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I never, ever bet on a sidearm going automatically into battery with a full magazine inserted unless the firearm was designed to do so. I really don't know of one actually designed from the ground up to do that, but there might be one. I also have for some years about going "over the top" to release the slide, so that's no big deal for me either.
Joe Willy, have you fired a P-10C? I agree - the P-09 and P-07 are incredible pistols. My P-09 rides with me often. :)
The Mauser HSc releases the slide by inserting a magazine (loaded or empty, doesn't matter).
Trying a loaded magazine in my production P-10c, I could only get it to "autoforward" maybe once for every 10 tries.
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If any of my guns started doing auto forwards, I would consider the gun broken and in need of fixing. That would include the P-07. None do, so I'm a happy camper. Not raining on anyone else's parade. It's just the way I like it.
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The Mauser HSc releases the slide by inserting a magazine (loaded or empty, doesn't matter).
Learn something new every day. 8)
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I think you can make most semi-autos auto forward simply be increasing the slide release spring tension and maybe polishing the notch. It's the combination of spring tension and friction in the slide lock position that determines how much of a jolt it takes to release it. At least that is my understanding. Not much auto forward needed at a bullseye match, so none of mine do it. I would probably adjust mine to eliminate auto forward if it did just to be consistent with the other pistols and not surprise me ... or an intern/trainee.
Joe
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If any of my guns started doing auto forwards, I would consider the gun broken and in need of fixing. That would include the P-07. None do, so I'm a happy camper. Not raining on anyone else's parade. It's just the way I like it.
Slam them in hard and they all will especially if when you force the mag in there is a component of the force that is directed rearward.
It ain't "broken" of it does this. It's called Physics.
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Like others, when slamming a mag home, the auto-slide incident doesn't bother me that much. However, I shot a few mags through my new P10c yesterday, and the slide didn't lock back 2 out of the 3 mags I shot. That does bother me. Anyone else having this happen?
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Like others, when slamming a mag home, the auto-slide incident doesn't bother me that much. However, I shot a few mags through my new P10c yesterday, and the slide didn't lock back 2 out of the 3 mags I shot. That does bother me. Anyone else having this happen?
Yes but only with the custom loads I've made up for use with a suppressor (124 and 147 gr). My glocks (17,17, 43) all run the rounds fine and so does my CZ Scorpion but the P10C won't always eject the spent shell or lock back after the mag is emptied. It ejects and locks back fine with all of the factory 115 gr I've shot through it.
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Like others, when slamming a mag home, the auto-slide incident doesn't bother me that much. However, I shot a few mags through my new P10c yesterday, and the slide didn't lock back 2 out of the 3 mags I shot. That does bother me. Anyone else having this happen?
No, but yes it would bother me. Check that there's no debris obstructing the upward movement of the slide stop. How many rounds have you put through it, roughly?
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I think you can make most semi-autos auto forward simply be increasing the slide release spring tension and maybe polishing the notch. It's the combination of spring tension and friction in the slide lock position that determines how much of a jolt it takes to release it. At least that is my understanding. Not much auto forward needed at a bullseye match, so none of mine do it. I would probably adjust mine to eliminate auto forward if it did just to be consistent with the other pistols and not surprise me ... or an intern/trainee.
Joe
Exactly.
The pistol is not broken or malfunctioning if a tactical (very fast positive) insert releases the slide. Well broken in, lubed CZ 75s will do this. My Sig will also release on some inserts. My H.S. 22 rimfire will release.
None of these will release on a standard no hurry insert.
My two CZ 75s will release with no mag at all if you hold the pistols firmly with your strong hand and hit the base of the mag well with the heel of your insert/weak hand smartly.
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I think you can make most semi-autos auto forward simply be increasing the slide release spring tension and maybe polishing the notch. It's the combination of spring tension and friction in the slide lock position that determines how much of a jolt it takes to release it.
Frame flex with polymer framed guns also contributes...