The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CLUB CZ97 => Topic started by: Piemn on May 28, 2017, 06:46:24 PM
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So long story short I just picked up a new in box 97b, wanted one forever. Just got up to my cabin and attempted to fire the first couple mags through This this thing. First mag ran flawless. The next 6 or 7 mags I ran through it it jammed every 7th or 8th, didn't matter what one of the two factory mags it was. Basically when it jammed the live round would jam vertical in the action, sorry I don't have a don't have a pic of it. And, whenever the action was locked open and I loaded a full mag into it the action closed without me touching anything, just the force from slamming it in would close it. And the last thing, I'm no pro shooter but I consider myself an advanced novice when it comes to shooting this thing I couldn't hit a broad side of a barn.
I'm kind of pissed off right now. I've had 75's and they where all flawless dead on pistols. This thing seems like a turd. I was really excited because everyone raves about this gun. And to top it off I was shooting with my buddies who all shoot Tupperware guns, just added fuel to the fire for me..
Someone please help me out so I don't ditch this thing the minute I get home.
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Did you field strip and clean and oil the pistol before shooting it the first time? What ammo were you using?
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Sorry you had such a bad experience with your new 97b, it certainly isn't typical. It might help if you provide some details. What type of ammo(reloads etc.)? Did you disassemble and clean /lube prior to shooting it? Did you check the barrel bushing to see if it was loose or damaged?
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Did ya tear it down and clean it up real good, then lube the rails n put it back together?
Sounds like the rails are too dry
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Well that does suck. Don't own a 97 yet, but here's the typical stupid questions[emoji6].
Did you thoroughly clean and relube before shooting?
What ammo were you using, and did you try different ammo?
As to the auto forward when inserting a mag, many in here consider that a plus. Very typical for CZ's, some guys can get it all the time, some, (like me) can't hardly get it to do that.
You can give up on it if you choose, you may have gotten a lemon. (Happens with every single manufacturer)
I'm sure someone will be around shortly with more help. You can always send back to the mother ship if you still have issues. Pre paid, and great CS.
Oh, ha ha, I see I must be typing to slow[emoji850]
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Sorry to hear about your troubles, that certainly does suck I know. Don't have any solutions beyond what's been said but would like first dibs if you decide to ditch it :)
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Ok maybe I'm just a little stupid. I did tear it down but, I didn't clean or live it, I've had 75's in the past and always ran a couple hundred rounds through them before a tear down clean and lube. Maybe I should do that before I get too worked up.
I'm shooting factory S&B 230gr. This is the newest model.
But it still doesn't explain why my slide slams closed when I load a mag into it and it's so innacurate it's not fun to shoot at the moment. The rear sight is about 1/3 off to the left of the slide. Is this normal?
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ive gotta be honest...it doesn't seem like its new...especially the position of the sights.
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Ok maybe I'm just a little stupid. I did tear it down but, I didn't clean or live it, I've had 75's in the past and always ran a couple hundred rounds through them before a tear down clean and lube. Maybe I should do that before I get too worked up.
I'm shooting factory S&B 230gr. This is the newest model.
But it still doesn't explain why my slide slams closed when I load a mag into it and it's so innacurate it's not fun to shoot at the moment. The rear sight is about 1/3 off to the left of the slide. Is this normal?
I think there's a few things going on. Yup, you should clean all the shipping grease/machining oils off and relubricate with a quality lube. As mentioned, also check your bushing.
Secondly, I've never had very good luck with 230 ball in either 1911 or 97B for accuracy. I have had much better luck with either a 185 gr hollowpoint or a 200 grain lead semiwadcutter. 230's are great for blasting and making holes in paper, but the other two rounds have done considerably better for me, accuracy wise.
As far as the sight goes...no, they typically aren't that far over. Set up some paper and shoot some groups off a bench.
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The slide slamming home when I seat a mag is a "feature" for me especially when I was shooting IDPA :) definitely clean and lube good. Man, I haven't used S&B in a long time, mainly cause it was so dang dirty shooting. Maybe they've improved I don't know, but I'd definitely try some different FMJ ammo and see. Wow that rear sight being offset that much definitely doesn't seem right. Sounds like a QC issue there. I'd be pissed too if I was you and let them know about it too. Any physical probs looking at the mags? Might try taking them apart and cleaning too. You prob don't have access to a different mag I guess?
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ive gotta be honest...it doesn't seem like its new...especially the position of the sights.
We've had brand new Ruger SR9 and SR40's and Springfield XD's come in to the store that you could move the sights with your index finger. It happens to all manufacturers at some point.
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Sounds like the rear sight is also an issue...
I think 230 ball is a bit overkill to start
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Ok maybe I'm just a little stupid. I did tear it down but, I didn't clean or live it, I've had 75's in the past and always ran a couple hundred rounds through them before a tear down clean and lube. Maybe I should do that before I get too worked up.
I'm shooting factory S&B 230gr. This is the newest model.
But it still doesn't explain why my slide slams closed when I load a mag into it and it's so innacurate it's not fun to shoot at the moment. The rear sight is about 1/3 off to the left of the slide. Is this normal?
No, you're not stupid. You were excited to shoot your new toy. I know I've done exactly that and had the same type of issues with a couple of pistols (that totally changed personality when properly cleaned and lubed.) It sounds like this is an easy fix, though an annoyance. If your rear sight is off center, see if it moves when you push it. I would think that you can adjust and tighten it while shooting it from a bench rest. The magazine slamming closed... well, some people like it when they have it, some want it and don't have it, and some that have it don't like it... LOL Hopefully it's something you can maybe get used to.
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I think 230 ball is a bit overkill to start
Seriously? That has been the standard practice ammo for the .45 since it was developed. I can't imagine using anything else.
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I would disassemble, clean, and lube properly. Also make sure you re-index the barrel bushing properly. While it's apart, I'd run the bare slide manually without the slide stop installed to see if it hangs up anywhere. After reassembling, I'd manually cycle a few magazines worth of ammo and see how it does(safely of course). If it functions, I'd drift the rear sight to center and shoot it rested to dial it in. Mine shoots 230 ball just fine, but likes both 185 and 200gr lswc much better though. I haven't had the first feed issue. Good luck and please let us know how it goes.
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This thing is brand new, now wear marks anywhere. I haven't shot s&b ever, it was cheap so I bought a lot of it. I usually shoot blazer brass with no problems.
I tore it apart after about 200 rounds and this thing is filthy. The sights don't move when I force them by hand. I really don't want to give up on this thing just because it's so badass and I've wanted on forever.
I'm going to order some blazer brass and clean this thing up real god and lube it and see happens
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I think 230 ball is a bit overkill to start
Seriously? That has been the standard practice ammo for the .45 since it was developed. I can't imagine using anything else.
Yeah, seriously...I can't imagine anything else most of the time, but I can't imagine using it in a brand new pistol first time out while you're learning it/breaking it in.
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This thing is brand new, now wear marks anywhere. I haven't shot s&b ever, it was cheap so I bought a !@## load of it. I usually shoot blazer brass with no problems.
For both my CZ97B I shot more than a case of S&B 230gr FMJ to make some brass and break in guns. Not a single problem, but I do clean new guns before shooting. I have also shot a few hundred Federal AE and a almost a case of WWB. No problems with all of them. WWB is a bit too hot for me to the point that shooting is not pleasant. I will finish this case and will not buy it again. Unlike hotter loaded 9mm S&B, their 45ACP loaded softer than WWB.
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Yeah, seriously...I can't imagine anything else most of the time, but I can't imagine using it in a brand new pistol first time out while you're learning it/breaking it in.
What would you use instead?
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What would you use instead?
How about:
I have had much better luck with either a 185 gr hollowpoint or a 200 grain lead semiwadcutter. 230's are great for blasting and making holes in paper, but the other two rounds have done considerably better for me, accuracy wise.
And:
Mine shoots 230 ball just fine, but likes both 185 and 200gr lswc much better though.
;)
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This thing is brand new, now wear marks anywhere. I haven't shot s&b ever, it was cheap so I bought a !@## load of it. I usually shoot blazer brass with no problems.
I tore it apart after about 200 rounds and this thing is filthy. The sights don't move when I force them by hand. I really don't want to give up on this thing just because it's so badass and I've wanted on forever.
I'm going to order some blazer brass and clean this thing up real god and lube it and see happens
It is this simple. The gun should function just fine with an initial cleaning and 230 gr rnds should function perfectly. That's all I've ever used in my 97BD and it has NEVER choked once in over 5k rnds.
Call or email CZ-USA and politely alert them to your issues. They will send you a return label and they will return your gun working properly.
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I think 230 ball is a bit overkill to start
Seriously? That has been the standard practice ammo for the .45 since it was developed. I can't imagine using anything else.
Thought the same when I read the post.
Maybe someone with more than my 25 years of shooting 230 gr. ball ammo could explain?
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Thanks for all the replies guys,
I will tear this thing down when i get home tonight and give it a good clean and lube job.
As far as the sights go, i might just have to get a sight drifter and solve the inaccuracy thing myself as i really dont feel like sending this thing in and waiting forever to get it back since i really wanted to shoot some uspsa matches with it.
And as the ammo goes. I dont reload, i have access to a nice dillion reloader if i absolutely need to make my own bullets to get this thing to shoot good but, i have had such good results in the past with other off the shelf ammo like blazer brass id like to stick with that if i can.
For those of you who dont reload what do you have the best luck with?
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S&B 230 gr FMJ and any weight JHP from Federal, Hornaday, or Speer. My two 97B's have shot every round with absolutely no problems at all.
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Guns are a marriage, some work some don't. But whatever you do, don't just give up on it, work it out. And quit calling your gun a thing, she needs to know you love her and are committed to doing whatever it takes to make it work. We all feel your dismay, just relax and work through thru it with her.
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Guns are a marriage, some work some don't. But whatever you do, don't just give up on it, work it out. And quit calling your gun a thing, she needs to know you love her and are committed to doing whatever it takes to make it work. We all feel your dismay, just relax and work through thru it with her.
...the most beautiful post I ever read
/thread
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Why thank you 👍
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FWIW I had the same issue with rounds coming up 'vertically' and hitting the upper edge of the chamber and stopping with a JRC .45acp carbine, all mag issues. Seems the mag wasn't bringing up rounds fast enough. Stronger springs fixed it. I think every possible gun-related issue has been covered in this thread, so I'd clean & inspect your mags as well. And number them, in case it's certain mags doing it.
S&B is fine ammo and shouldn't be causing any problems, but any time I shoot something new for the first time I always bring at least three different brands of ammo in case of malfunctions.
I don't always do a disassembly & inspection before first range trip, but once I bought a Rock island Armory 1911 new from a shop with a range and shot it for the first time right there, bone dry out of the box. Had occasional misfeeds til I oiled it up and never failed afterwards.
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I tore it apart last night and it was drier than a popcorn fart and full of crud. I gave her a good clean and lube now just cycling it by hand it feels way better. I just used basic hoppes 9 oil but i will be getting some slide grease also since comments on here make it sound like thats the way to go on these steel pistols.
coming from mostly a shotgun background this pistol stuff is still relatively new to me.
Im going to run some rounds through it again soon and report back.
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Gosh I have a 97 BD that's been perfect through some I would guess 1400-1500 rounds now?
first after reading the post here, I agree that any semi auto pistol needs lubrication, especially on the rails and (frame and slide) or its going to slow down the slide speed, as all these parts slide, magazine, recoil spring wok together to produce acceptable results that can be a problem.
I tend to use a good grease on the rails myself.
as for accuracy, have you had anyone else try firing the weapon?
ammo, well any weapon can dislike any ammunition, so you need to see what it runs well on, generally speaking I have ran 175 JHP, 185 grain JHP, 200 grain plated SWC, 200 grain flat point, 230 grain flat point and round nose through my 97 BD as well as some 12 or so 1911 and they all eat them fine so far.
the slide falling upon magazine insertion is a bonus in my opinion, if you don't like it then you should be able to 1) be gentle inserting the mag, 2) don't load a full magazine, 3 ) have a new slide lock installed that will help prevent this form occuring.
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I shoot with a group of used to be 1911 freaks that have now all switched to the 97B's. There is over 20 of the used to bee's in the group. They finally convinced me I should have one after consistently handing me my a-- at the regular Friday night matches we attend. I purchased a 97B about 6 months ago, since then I have ran every known type and brand of ammunition through this gun without a single bobble or hitch. It would shoot ragged holes at 25 yards before the bushing mod with 200 grain SWC's and now shoots ragged holes with any ammo including my reloads. I realize that every company makes a lemon now and then and that could be what you have. Once the issue is found and corrected whether it is you or the gun, you will find the most accurate, reliable softest shooting .45 on the planet. Mine rivals the $3500.00 custom 1911's I used to own in every department. I had guns built and waited years to get what the 97B gave me right out of the box in reliability and accuracy. Send it back, get it fixed and get on with it.
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I bought a new 97B, a year or two ago. I forget now. It has the updated feed ramp, fiber optic sight, and aluminum grip. It is totally stock, and has been absolutely flawless with a few thousand rounds through it. Accurate, and 100% reliable. Don't give up on this great pistol!
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Hi OP, I have the same gun and exactly same issue as yours. How's it right now? Have you solve the problem? Really appreciate it if your could update little bit.
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Ok guys, I refrained from selling my 97 and gave it another shot. I stripped it down cleaned it lubed and greased it. I ahoy a couple mags through it this last weekend and it ran great using the same ammo. I even started to learned how it shot and got pretty bleep accurate with it in a short amount of time. I really like this thing and look forward to getting to know her a little better.
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Well, that sounds like it worked itself out nicely. Glad to hear the pistol is starting to meet your expectations.
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I always strip and clean my guns before taking them out for a test spin. I even go so far as to take full rail steel guns and sit in front of the TV and rack them a bunch before I go out.
Maybe a stupid habit but I had a high dollar 1911 that I took to the range and after 3-4 mags locked up solid. I couldnt move the slide. It was a stainless and I learned later that it happens more with stainless than carbon steel but the gun being a higher dollar gun had been built to some very tight tolerances. Once heated up some, it froze.
Once cool it freed up and I sat in front of the tv and racked that sucker probably 300 times. Cleaned it and oiled it and it never happened again and it was probably the most accurate handgun I ever owned in pure bullet in bullet hole fashion.
Usually its the mag that causes your type of failure but a slide that isnt cycling proper will give you fits as well.
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It's an incredibly accurate pistol, on of my favorites for sure
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Mine shoots very well, but just think how much better it would shoot without all the bushing loosness! I'm considering sending my slide to CGW for a 1911 bushing install, just for giggles.
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It's good to hear that you didn't give up on the 97B. It's one of my favorites, of all my pistols. I used it last points season in USPSA L-10. A full magazine can be difficult to load when the slide is in battery. I bought some +2 extensions for the 9mm magazines https://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/545900000078_Plastic-Magazine-2-Base-Pad and took my Dremel tool to them and modified them to fit the 97 magazines. I didn't need the extra round in the mag (only one in 45acp), but the extra space made loading a full mag much easier when the pistol was in battery. I have never shot a factory loaded round out of my 97B however, I have a little over 4300 rounds through it and MINE will not feed 200gr. SWC. I've tried all the recipes that have worked in 1911's, Glock 21's, M&P's, etc. but they just don't work in MY 97B. Of course I varied the OAL to see if I could get some thing to work, but to no avail. YMMV