The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: Snerticus on July 01, 2017, 11:33:11 AM
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I've had my P10c for a couple weeks now and am liking this gun. Shoots better than I am capable. I want to have the slide milled to accept a Vortex Venom RDS (own one on a Ruger MK II and like it) or a Leupold Deltapoint/Trijicon RMR. Tired old eyes and iron sights syndrome.
Anyone have their P10c slide milled for a RDS and would you do it again?
Thanks!
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I've been researching this for a while now. My primary concern is the factory rear sight dovetail and the striker safety channel cutout. If the RDS is mounted too far to the rear, the ejector side screw hole will will only be a few threads deep before it ends at the striker cutout. Too far forward and the rear dovetail won't be fully covered, leaving a gap. Completely in front of the dovetail won't work either as the screw hole would be directly above the extractor pin.
I've gotten replies from ATEI, Fire-4Effect, and Battlewerx to get mine milled for an RMR. ATEI said it's a go, Fire-4-Effect and Battlewerx are still researching.
Traditional RMR Cut:
(http://ateiguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/DSC_0005-1-600x600.jpg)
RMR cut with indexing screw posts:
(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/17439168_624574021065968_8171582314690641920_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTMyOTkzNTUwMTA2MzExNDMxOA%3D%3D.2)
I took some basic measurements and this seems to be the only option as far as positioning the optic with the traditional method ATEI uses. An Glock iron sight forward of the optic should be possible, but I'm not sure if there's enough metal to mount it in the back. This drawing is not to scale and the P-10 in the photo is pre-production, the rear dovetail looks twice as deep on mine, but you get the idea. At least in the case of an RMR, the extractor pin will be covered bu the optic. F-4-E and Battlewerx mill indexing screw posts which might provide enough thread to move the RDS farther back. Battlewerx has agreed to let me send in my slide as a guinea pig, but won't be able to work on it until August if I choose to do so.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vm-2_K7OoDE/WVfLlEtJHVI/AAAAAAAAA4o/qj-L2Ug6DL40A4SqSzX2-xmRaANv354KACLcBGAs/s1600/P-10C%2BRDS%2BMounting.jpg)
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Here's the only photo of one I've found. Don't know who did the work though.
(https://i.imgur.com/7vQKjWXl.jpg)
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earlan357,
Thanks for the detailed and researched response. I hope you will post whoever/however you modify your P10c slide and I plan to follow your lead. This is much more complicated than I imagined.
Again, thank you for sharing your research.
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Alex Costa is the guy who owns that pistol with the RMR. He's in a CZ forum on Facebook.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Check out Skala Industries.https://www.skalaindustries.com the owner of this shop also owns JagerWerks - which is a well known Glock milling company. Skala is his offshoot company that will focus on CZs - the P10 and Shadow2 seem to be of particular interest to him.
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Check out Skala Industries.https://www.skalaindustries.com the owner of this shop also owns JagerWerks - which is a well known Glock milling company. Skala is his offshoot company that will focus on CZs - the P10 and Shadow2 seem to be of particular interest to him.
Nice! I had my Glock 26 cut for an RMR by JagerWerks. Looks like they are working on a SS guide rod and flat face trigger for the P-10C as well.
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Yep, between them and ATeI, there are some seriously good folks working on RMR cuts for the p10
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We've done several P 10's for RMR cuts. Nothing difficult or different from milling any other slide. ;)
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We've done several P 10's for RMR cuts. Nothing difficult or different from milling any other slide. ;)
Cool. Got any pics? As deep as the RMR sits, will a standard height Glock sight co-witness if the dovetail is cut in front of the RMR?
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We've done several P 10's for RMR cuts. Nothing difficult or different from milling any other slide. ;)
Cool. Got any pics? As deep as the RMR sits, will a standard height Glock sight co-witness if the dovetail is cut in front of the RMR?
They usually go out faster than we can think to get pics. Have a few to do next week so I'll try to get some. Why do you want to mill a Glock dovetail when you can simply mount the optic in front the oem dovetail?
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I actually milled mine myself turned out great. I would absolutely do it again especially in the way i milled mine so that i can still use the factory dovetail for my rear sight. All I did was mill the slide down in front of the dovetail to the same level as the lower area behind the dovetail it drops it plenty low enough into the slide and simply gives ya options. I dont think you can ever go wrong milling in a good red dot thats just my opinion.
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We've done several P 10's for RMR cuts. Nothing difficult or different from milling any other slide. ;)
Cool. Got any pics? As deep as the RMR sits, will a standard height Glock sight co-witness if the dovetail is cut in front of the RMR?
They usually go out faster than we can think to get pics. Have a few to do next week so I'll try to get some. Why do you want to mill a Glock dovetail when you can simply mount the optic in front the oem dovetail?
I've had an RMR both ways and I prefer the iron in front. Since the irons become backup sights, I want the RMR to take priority. I pick up the dot faster since there's no rear sight cluttering the window or blocking the dot, Moving the RMR rearward means the lens is father away from my metal belt buckle. (I carry AIWB in an Ares Gear Aegis) The rear iron also gives some protection to the window from brass. While I lose some sight radius, it's still more radius than a stock G26. Glock dovetail, since there are plenty of options already out there.
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I took some measurements with the rear sight removed. There's only .063" of metal between the bottom of the rear dovetail and the striker channel. That's barely enough for 2 threads of the mounting screw. I think the way I have it in the picture is as far back as it can go. There's plenty of metal to cut a forward Glock dovetail above the extractor, over .250" of thickness to the striker tunnel.
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earlan357,
Thanks for the detailed and researched response. I hope you will post whoever/however you modify your P10c slide and I plan to follow your lead. This is much more complicated than I imagined.
Again, thank you for sharing your research.
Man, that is really sweet...
Wonder if a diff Red Dot like a Vortex Venom or Delta Pro would fit the same.
I hate the idea to remove a sight just to replace or troubleshoot the battery and with as much trouble as RMRs have (yes, alot) with battery contacting the slide, I won't own another one..... putting electrical tape down is not a fix I want to hear from the manufacturer.
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Check out Skala Industries.https://www.skalaindustries.com the owner of this shop also owns JagerWerks - which is a well known Glock milling company. Skala is his offshoot company that will focus on CZs - the P10 and Shadow2 seem to be of particular interest to him.
Just as a heads up this is not the owner of Jagerwerks. This is someone else's project
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Checked my Jagerwerks RMR'd Glock. Thickness between the RMR base and ejector plunger hole is about .125. That equals 4 threads using RMR standard 6-32 screws. On the P10, the .063" thickness results in 2 threads of engagement. 6-32 major diameter is .138". The rule of thumb is to have the same depth of engagement as the major diameter, so even the Glock comes up short. Now according to an engineering calculator, minium required thread depth comes out to .068" or just over 2 threads. So threads over the striker tunnel is alittle short but still probably okay since the pockets and rmr body take the recoil forces. Biggest concern is vibration backing out the screw, but that's what loctite is for. The other screw is full depth and the pocket has more surface than a standard rear sight, so racking it off objects should not damage it. Glock MOS mounting plates are .100" thick, and the plates have been reported to break before the optic.
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earlan357,
Thanks for the detailed and researched response. I hope you will post whoever/however you modify your P10c slide and I plan to follow your lead. This is much more complicated than I imagined.
Again, thank you for sharing your research.
Man, that is really sweet...
Wonder if a diff Red Dot like a Vortex Venom or Delta Pro would fit the same.
I hate the idea to remove a sight just to replace or troubleshoot the battery and with as much trouble as RMRs have (yes, alot) with battery contacting the slide, I won't own another one..... putting electrical tape down is not a fix I want to hear from the manufacturer.
dimwit71-
Thanks for posting your experience.
Best of luck going forward.
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Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'm pretty sure I want the Vortex Venom on my P10-c after shooting it again over the Fourth. But nothing is purchased yet. Still watching and reading...
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Checked my Jagerwerks RMR'd Glock. Thickness between the RMR base and ejector plunger hole is about .125. That equals 4 threads using RMR standard 6-32 screws. On the P10, the .063" thickness results in 2 threads of engagement. 6-32 major diameter is .138". The rule of thumb is to have the same depth of engagement as the major diameter, so even the Glock comes up short. Now according to an engineering calculator, minium required thread depth comes out to .068" or just over 2 threads. So threads over the striker tunnel is alittle short but still probably okay since the pockets and rmr body take the recoil forces. Biggest concern is vibration backing out the screw, but that's what loctite is for. The other screw is full depth and the pocket has more surface than a standard rear sight, so racking it off objects should not damage it. Glock MOS mounting plates are .100" thick, and the plates have been reported to break before the optic.
44.5mm back from the breech face to the center on of the mounting screw hole is the furthest back you want to mount it for an rmr. 43.5 is more appropriate for anything else