The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: nstg8r on December 13, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
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Hi, new reloader here with a couple of random 3 AM questions.
Maybe a quick intro first... where to start? I?ve got a CZ75 SP01 that I?ve been shooting for about a year now and have just started on my journey with Ipsc style competition. This new addiction had me looking at reloading and I?ve recently purchased a used Dillon Square deal. I?m just finishing up a refurbish on it and hope to be done before Christmas. Maybe.
While pondering and reading this and other boards I?ve been wondering what other more experienced reloader do about cleaning and lubing their brass. Do people clean and lube on every reload cycle?
Do I need to use a lube before resizing ?- Dillon uses carbide dies.
Do you lube, resize and then tumble clean?
I?m I overthinking this this? Have I used the word lube to many times?
Thanks all.
- I figure I'll keep all my questions in this thread to keep it organized. I'll be adding questions as I learn. -
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I de-prime then tumble. Before sizing, I use Hornady One Shot. No need to re-clean before loading. Some people say lube is unnecessary for pistol brass, though I can't imagine going without.
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When I have 500-600 cases of a particular caliber that's when I tumble my brass. I am not concerned about clean primer pockets.
When I am ready to load I use just a tiny little bit of Hornady Unique on a finger, rub it on my thumb and roll the case a little between those fingers. I do this between every 5-10 cases. It makes sizing so much smoother even with carbide dies.
Hornady Unique I believe is similar to Imperial but much cheaper, I load between 800-1000 rounds a month and I still have some left after about 4 years. I may have another years left.
You are going to get a lot of people doing it differently and using different products.
I don't think that there is any right or wrong ways but this is my way.
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Tumble your brass after shooting (I prefer wet but dry is fine). Don?t get too hung up about it if you run out of clean brass and don?t have time. Dirty brass shoots just fine.
Lube before loading. One Shot, Dillon lube both work fine. Load in one go. No need to clean the lube off after. You don?t need that much.
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Ok, thanks. Sounds like I was overthinking it
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Wet tumble, dry, lube (Hornady case lube with Dillon carbide dies), load, QC, shoot.
Not rocket science.
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Wet tumble with no pins....half oz of Armour All carwash and a pinch of lemishine shine. Rinse well and dry THOROUGHLY! Oven or dehydrator works best. Super shiny and good to go! Armour all car wash leaves wax on the case so no more lube necessary.
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First off...
Welcome Aboard !
? Tumbling is a very personal thing. Lots of people do it, in lots of different ways, to achieve lots of different results. But then, lots of people don't clean their brass at all !! ;D
? For competition I think we can all agree on these few things...
? Some form of brass cleaning is helpful for the handgun competitor. Since competitors generally shoot outdoors and retrieve their brass from the ground, a cleaning method that removes mud and dirt from the case exterior and other debris from the interior is essential, if only to save the reloading equipment.
? This process needs to be capable of handling quantities of brass, since the competition shooter is generating quantities of empty brass.
? Not necessarily shiny brass, but clean brass also helps the reloader spot deformities so that "bad" brass can be eliminated before the physical reloading process starts. Cleaning then is really the first step in the reloading process.
? This cleaning process can also be used to add waxes, polishes, and other mild lubricants to the case exterior. Although modern carbide sizing dies do not require lubrication to prevent galling or seizing inside the Sizing Die, added lubrication ALWAYS makes things easier, especially when considering the higher volumes of the competitive shooter.
? Most competitive shooters do not find it necessary to de-prime the cases before the cleaning process. This is promoted by the fact that most competitive shooters have chosen a powder and load range that allow very little soot or powder residue to remain in the ejected cartridge case. While their primary purpose is to keep the firearm clean and functioning during competition, the end result is that the interior of their brass is also as clean or cleaner.
Hope this helps. ;)
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What Wobbly said is spot on.
Some thoughts that can be considered and my references are to 9mm minor PF comp. loads:
I'm a retired old guy who likes reloading good ammo and has the time to do so.
The single most expensive reloading component bought new is the Brass Case.
Any crud or toxic residue build up in your press area comes from your Spent Primed Range Pick up Brass.
The most time spent processing a cartridge is done with the Brass.
Time and interest is the driver for how you process your range brass. As Wobbly said, some pick up the case , shake the dirt out and reload it. They likely kick my butt at a match.
On the other hand, I WASH my range brass, sort by headstamp, size and deprime on a simple single stage press out of the house.
Then, the brass is tumbled with a little NuFinish polish in the media. At this point the brass is "bling" clean and slips through the dies very easily, especially since it's already sized and deprimed. My press "stays clean" for a very long time.
The cartridge oals are very consistent with same headstamp cases per batch loaded. The chrono numbers are very consistently good.
There are benefits and drawbacks to these processes. Each reloader decides .
Enjoy .
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I wont be adding anything new and revolutionary to whats been said so far but I will give you my method for cleaning several thousand pieces of brass with as little actual work as possible. At any one time I usually have a couple of 5 gal buckets of brass that need cleaning so I usually wait til I have an afternoon or evening where I will be around the house for a while so I can knock as much out at one time.
I use a Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler (FART) to clean my brass, they can usually be found on sale online in the $140 or less price range and come with 5lbs of stainless steel pins for those inclined to use them. I like the FART because the drum is capable of holding somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200-1500 pieces of 9mm brass so I can get the cleaning over with fairly quickly.
I start by filling the drum with dirty brass, not all the way to the top as it needs a little room to bang into each other. To that I add hot tap water, a squirt of Armor All Wash n Wax, and a bit of citric acid. Set the timer for 45 minutes and go do something else, so far I'm about 5mins in actual hands on work. Let me add, I don't decap/resize before tumbling nor do I use the pins, my brass comes out clean and looking like new on the outside without them, and I don't care about clean primer pockets or the inside of the cases, although they come pretty clean anyway.
I generally stop the tumbler after around 30 mins or when ever I think about it but if it goes the whole 45 no big deal. Dump the dirty water, then refill and rinse 2-3 more times and take the drum up to my reloading room, turn the brass out on large towels to dry under the ceiling fan. This process takes between 5-10 mins depending on how fast I am moving that day.
Repeat the above steps about 3 more times in an evening and I have about 5k pieces of super shiny clean brass that I will let air dry under the fan in my reloading room.
So with 45mins or less of actual hands on work I have a good amount of brass ready for when I need it. Do yourself a favor, definitely lube your brass prior to loading, it just makes the whole process smoother and easier. No, its technically not required for carbide dies, but it just makes the whole process more pleasant. I prefer Hornady one shot as it dries without leaving a sticky film the lanolin based lubes leave.
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I like the FART because....
You really had me going. For a minute there I thought it was the start to a male-only joke. ;D
Thanks for the info and detailing that. I was only familiar with the units from Stainless Steel Media (STM). Their kit with all supplies starts about $100 higher at $249.
http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/
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This new addiction had me looking at reloading and I?ve recently purchased a used Dillon Square deal. I?m just finishing up a refurbish on it and hope to be done before Christmas.
One of the greatest additions or accessories you can add to your SDB is one of these...
http://www.dillonupgrades.com/squaredealspentprimerupgrade.html
[Actually, if you have a drill press you can make your own for free using a 38 Spcl case and the Dillon steel part already on the press.]
Most of the mess generated in and around the press comes when the used primer is poked out of the case. Some of that smut coming out is not so good to breathe either. The plastic tube takes it all and routes it down to a sealed milk or oil jug under the bench. In that way your machine stays cleaner and you're not involved with handling any of it.
Once every 3 years or so you simply put another empty jug on and go at it again. Some scrap metal dealers will even pay for your jugs full of brass primer bits.
;)
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...FART... snicker, snicker...
Wow, I really didn?t expect this many different approaches to cleaning brass!
So with the used press came a Lyman turbo 600 and a jug of new Lyman green media.
I ran a batch through it and the brass came out with a slight green tint. Can I assume that this is bit of polishing rouge and would be fine as lubricant too? Or should I grab some One Shot?
Thanks for the tips guys, Wobbly that tube looks like a great idea I?ll be adding it to the weekend list of projects.
Cheers
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As mentioned, add a capful or so of NuFinish to your tumbler and let it work into the tumbling medium before you add the brass. Mine is shiny as new after a couple of hours in my Lyman 1200. Also, a used dryer sheet cut into strips and added to the mix will collect dust.
I deprime after tumbling and use the tube to collector bin (I use a cat litter jug) method mentioned above and the press stays clean. I used to use Lee lube cut about 15:1 with alcohol and applied with a spray bottle. Handling during the loading process took off any excess. I use carbide sizing dies (Redding Competition) so I?ve since stopped using lube on pistol cases and 9mm are the easiest of all to size.
Plenty of good advice on this thread. You will work out what works best for you.
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The effects of nufinish in crushed walnut shell media vs. just the crushed walnut shell media alone.
Brass on the right had the polish added. The difference is easily seen.
(https://i.imgur.com/GeAwDSXl.jpg)
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Agreed. I use a combo of crushed Walnut and ground corn cob and the NuFinish makes it all shine like new. It seems to cut down on dust, etc. too.
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Agreed. I use a combo of crushed Walnut and ground corn cob and the NuFinish makes it all shine like new. It seems to cut down on dust, etc. too.
Sure does. I usually only have polish in one vibratory cleaner. The other day I put some in the one usually not having polish in it and when I was scooping around in the media with my hand taking a look at brass before either dumping/separating it, or running it a couple more hours, I noticed how much cleaner my hand/fingers were after the wax was added prior to that batch of brass.
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Wobbly that tube looks like a great idea I?ll be adding it to the weekend list of projects.
That tube and jug is rather mandatory if you have small children in your home. Just cut an opening in the jug's cap sized so that the tube stays in place. The tube should be long enough so that when the ram of the press goes to the top of the stroke that the tube is not pulled out of the jug.
In no time at all the jug will weigh enough where it will stop dancing around on the floor. You'll see. Once you have that maintenance-free trash disposal set up for 30 days, you'll never go back to open container primer disposal. It's, in a word, nasty.
;)
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As mentioned, add a capful or so of NuFinish to your tumbler and let it work into the tumbling medium before you add the brass. [snip]
Plenty of good advice on this thread. You will work out what works best for you.
Actually, any car polish will work. NuFinish has components that cut through crud a little better, and it's a liquid making it disperse easier in the media. BUT, any car polish will work, and everybody has an old can of Turtle Wax or some other paste wax hanging around.
Mainly the car polish applies an oxygen-proof sealer to the outside of the brass. When you seal away the oxygen, then the shine stays around a bit longer. It's that thin layer of anti-oxidation coating that provides some small but helpful level of lubrication to the brass.
But if you didn't have any, and had to buy something, then I'd second the motion to buy NuFinish.
One downside you need to be aware of... if your bottle of car wax is left in a cold garage (below 50F), when you shake the bottle as instructed, the bottle will burst open covering you, your bench, and anything nearby in a splatter of thick, white, waxy, gooey mess. Don't ask me how I know this.
;)
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I haven't tried liquid car wax but I ran out of Nufinish once and tried some Turtle Wax Scratch remover.....worked great. I just use NuFinish because its easy to find and reasonably priced. :) :)
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when you shake the bottle as instructed, the bottle will burst open[/color] covering you, your bench, and anything nearby in a splatter of thick, white, waxy, gooey mess.
;)
Ha, sounds like a hard earned lesson there.
I got lots of old car wax, so looking forward to giten 'er done!
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As mentioned, add a capful or so of NuFinish to your tumbler and let it work into the tumbling medium before you add the brass. Mine is shiny as new after a couple of hours in my Lyman 1200. Also, a used dryer sheet cut into strips and added to the mix will collect dust.
The dust is a serious consideration with dry tumbling methods and during media separation. You DO NOT want to breathe that dust.
? I tumble outdoors. These days, most homes have an electrical outlet on the rear deck or porch. My shop is on a hilltop with a pleasant breeze, so I simply leave the top off when tumbling and the dust is wafted away. I use the top to seal the unit when I bring it back indoors.
? If you tumble indoors, then you want to be sure and secure the top during the entire operation. Sifting and media separation still need to be done outdoors.
? You want to be sure and wash your hands with soap and water at the end of every tumbling session.
BTW... A countdown electrical timer can be had from Amazon for less than $11. See This Page (https://www.amazon.com/Teklectric-Curling-Straightener-Countdown-Conserve/dp/B01KKOJ42U/ref=sr_1_41?s=lamps-light&ie=UTF8&qid=1513427918&sr=1-41&keywords=timer+outlet)
Hope this helps.
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I tumble and then deprime. I load on a 550. I've been reloading about 20 years and just started lubing pistol brass in the last year. It isn't necessary, but it sure makes the press run smoother. I use a home made mix of denatured alcohol and liquid lanolin.
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Ok, I've got my Dillon SD running great and now I'd like to start loading. Along with the used press came about 200 round/cone nose 124gr lead bullets. I don't know much about them other than weight and what I can get from calipers.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4683/25486983158_af08fb6109_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EQcs97)9mm LCN 124gr length (https://flic.kr/p/EQcs97) by Trevor Steel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161844228@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4641/27579266379_66940a300a_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/J25X3K)9mm shank (https://flic.kr/p/J25X3K) by Trevor Steel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161844228@N08/), on Flickr
What I do know is that when I try to find my OAL, due to the shape the length is past 1.169. I also know that the shank is about .256 which is where I figure I want to seat the bullet. Would this be correct?
Looking at Lyman's 50th, I see they load lead 120gr at min 3.0 gr and max 4.1 of Win231. I assume that this would be in the safe zone for a heavy weight bullet.
Lee's Modern Reloading has load data for 124gr starting at 3.0 and 4.0 for Win231.
So my plan is to load the ladder at 3.0, 3.4, 3.4, 3.6, 3.8, and 4.0 gr. all at the length of .75+.610-.256 = 1.104 => 1.10"
Is this a reasonable plan?
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Looking at Lyman's 50th, I see they load lead 120gr at min 3.0 gr and max 4.1 of Win231. I assume that this would be in the safe zone for a heavy weight bullet. Lee's Modern Reloading has load data for 124gr starting at 3.0 and 4.0 for Win231.
Yes, you want to seat about .250 deep, so that most of that large diameter is inside the case mouth. So we're not loading to an OAL so much as just burring that large feature of the bullet inside the case. You'll need a large flair on the case to make sure no lead is being removed during seating. Watch for little lead "eyelashes" falling away from the seating die. You absolutely don't want to see those lead shavings coming off the bullet.
So my plan is to load the ladder at 3.0, 3.4, 3.4, 3.6, 3.8, and 4.0 gr. all at the length of .75+.610-.256 = 1.104 => 1.10". Is this a reasonable plan?
Yes, it's a good plan, but I think you got a typo there... 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6....
Just load about 5 at each increment. With only 200, you're not going to work out every last detail becasue you'll be out of bullets in no time. You just want to find what operates your gun pretty good so you can use them up.
BTW, that does look sort of like a Missouri Bullet Co offering.
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3.4, 3.4 Correct, that should read 3.2
Thanks for the tip on Missouri, I checked their site and while they do look similar I don't see any with a red wax ring. But, that could be because what I have is at least 5 to 6 years old. Maybe earlier production was with red...
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That bullet is from a common mold that many manufacturers use. Once the bullet is cast, the bullet is then sized and lubed. So the OD and the color of the wax/lube are the only hints of the original manufacturer.
Due to the multiple vendors, you don't need to lose any sleep over who made those exact bullets. But you might hold back 2 or 3 for comparison.
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Yes, you want to seat about .250 deep, so that most of that large diameter is inside the case mouth. So we're not loading to an OAL so much as just burring that large feature of the bullet inside the case. You'll need a large flair on the case to make sure no lead is being removed during seating. Watch for little lead "eyelashes" falling away from the seating die. You absolutely don't want to see those lead shavings coming off the bullet.
Dang it, I noticed these "eyelashes" when I loaded up my last of 5 rounds in my ladder. So if I understand this correctly, I've shaved off some of the diameter of the bullet and that will impact the seal between the lead and the bore. This would cause lower pressure and reduced velocity.
I suppose I'll need to break down the cartridges and start over with fresh bullets? And readjust the belling of the die.
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I would shoot them.
The "eyelashes" are most likely just a small piece the case mouth cut off the base of the bullet around the outside corner. The majority of the bullet that touches the lands is still there.
I adjust my die so the case mouth is opened/belled just enough so that when I set a lead bullet on it the bullet will drop in so that the top of the case mouth is about 1/2 way up that bottom lead ring from the base of the bullet to the bottom grease groove. If you're shooting bullets with no grease groove then adjust it so that the bottom of the bullet will start down into the case mouth and "stick" in it when you pick up the bullet/case by the bullet.
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I would shoot them.
^^this^^
Do not break those down. You want NOT to do that when you're loading. You want to refine that out of the process. But the rounds will still shoot.
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Excellent, thanks guys
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I would shoot them.
+1
As ID said, this is simply a sign that your process and setup still needs tweaking.
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I received a small quantity of Campro 147gr FNRP earlier this year and I finally got around to building a small ladder. The bullets are a decent quality with thick copper platting, I?ve read close to Berry?s Bullets, with a small variance in weight.
COAL 1.22
WIN231
CCI 500
Started at 3.5, 3.7, and ended at 3.9. 3.7 seemed to be the sweet spot.
Shot standing, slow two handed at about 8-9 yards.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/799/41172594131_b97472f8b0_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25JhiNB)
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(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/883/39362027900_a3e60a2b50_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22YhFxs)
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(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/794/39362027910_33a2c0d2dd_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22YhFxC)
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Good shooting !
If you really want to see how they group, then you need to shoot some again, but this time support the pistol or your wrists on a sand bag.
How's it feel to be shooting your own ammo ?
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How's it feel to be shooting your own ammo ?
I'm hooked! It started off being a novelty but now it's becoming more. I like thinking about different aspects of load development.
A question I have is about bullet seating depth. If I reduce the OAL it should increase pressure, producing a faster bullet with a more complete burn, but is there a gross rule of thumb or factor that approximates the difference in length to an increase in gr of powder?
I know there must be a point where that breaks down or else we'd all be shooting virtually no powder with super short OAL...
If a larger volume of powder produces more recoil does the same amount of powder but reduced OAL also create more recoil?
Unfortunately, I don't have access to a chrono so it's all a "seat of the pants" exercise but it's still fun.
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What you're saying is true, but there's no fixed rule... for several reasons...
? Most 9mm brass won't allow you to seat deeper than ~0.30". The wall thickness increases internally. Set your caliper to 0.353" and slide the tines of the caliper into the mouth of a cartridge case. You'll soon find a decreasing internal taper that limits Min OAL.
? If the ogive shape is the same, a 147gr is a longer bullet than a 115gr bullet. Therefore the 115gr can run a shorter OAL and not "bottom out", whereas one has to be very careful with the 147gr or it will. So there's not one, single, magic OAL either.
? Also, powder burns progressively better as pressure is increased. So a plot of powder performance is NOT a straight line, it's a curve. What you're suggesting is making a mathematical proportion, which only works on straight line graphs. Still sometimes we use this technique when we have no other clues as to where to start. It's better than nothing, but it only "works" becasue we then back off and begin at a "Starting Load".
If you'll look at my work on the 135gr MBC coated lead RN. There was no data available for a 135gr lead bullet, so I did a proportion between 124gr and 147gr. Turns out 135gr is exactly halfway between those 2 weights. So I proportionalized the loads. The calculation was way off, but I erred to the low side and only my journalistic pride was injured. ;D
Generally, 9mm loads seem to perform their best...
? With 0.20 to 0.25" seating depth
? With a powder loaded to about 93-95% of Max Load for the velocity you desire
Hope this helps.
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Wobbly's the Man, so take heed to what he says.
Another factor is the powder itself. Nice well-behaved powders follow your thoughts . Some powders DO NOT follow that thinking except in a very narrow range. Titegroup pressures are fairly linear in a narrow load range. A step or two past that range and pressures increase much more dramatically. Use proportions that take you beyond that well behaved pressure range, and pressures can increase dramatically.
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Use proportions that take you beyond that well behaved pressure range, and pressures can increase dramatically.
No, I insist, 1SOW is "Da Man" !! ;)
Pressures can and will increase dramatically with very few external signs. Even a good chrono can't help you in those regions. The cartoon below tries to graphically explain...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0Epmcv0TN0MhQDrBi8VPm_HMcDkjgpXeXYlHYYaf74S0mSQRGPRlEUqVrsx2N8qZbzNNmMHVyinCKGJT4TuLsP6SxBGp7Kw1H7OFUUmIAlGKiXLOwQXhh6sUKZ4rqhE_81rxQZ9VifoOJI6Z5kjKbDSrKZiHXb0vhsJMfCpYt4Wqw3xPM9nDLfJd_K099G8s7RGFLuy_aRTutcgEX4UouFpgvyJdS2D9oKxr8yir4Rrzhyrd7ZdCrBpfV3tsUrxwEL3ZtOkVwhDaG-xGsX8A4v4jnVyiScsNT-Ljhy0cCrutD7EJDGdtm58eP5oBOuaVgH1Io7EQY-KR6mCkitOHUjGgU52KZh5_dN80IPGFe9wYWv5q0CMjWTtj2hD-OpLjKX3QD429ow8TKNX8QuFFL03lS2LccMmNcFumClfM2tcaRIRuDzwUNpPWj3ugdxU72meoY8RN1YCFpOn2s77hs0Oai6ejMf6qxVwCfSmuGryMGf8K4s3GMM-oQ1WVFjY35VYIs1Nvhp2o3yCwcxidc1mT34EgWUq8yvWKdl4WfRyPuRvjeKgb3oqBkf4gZKESMA51PmrZLI8q-YSWQ60XM1yBjBGcKT9scMSO2mk=w829-h580-no)
Following yesterday's conversation, here we see that the chamber pressure (red line) developed by the powder is not a straight line. What I show is a very rough approximation, severely limited by my capabilities with the drawing program. I actually believe the curve is much steeper at the upper end.... which is how you end up with this....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MX7radThXhMOVX7U-PKUoZbZqGnPqromzzn0Lom7Fw0YiigNgcKSmue2sRBNBNMmbJldVwXdc9ryfNiiY_BWmGqQZNKLdv5uQlF_UA_9vWsadPxmHZZ0MmpjQ0JjcAUgiHOGBboukB0MFx9gKRO5ViZn9lPiNr9K_76dW0n-5v_4WpY7oZ6zaF0SsJ92XDBiIUayxk2UpCfRqYHGt6Jp-6LrjPgTTisXyZsXBctZrWeqp2x8V2X4Vu_rYmRhbjBzcJulF3s6kZkmH0Tmbv3mtOVeqmQ6Ebm0XLUg9Jwkf5k-n3Pxu4Td5xyksHcJ5_uDas4o8fLiZhJed_wp9fdKxPc13tOrha1Mgqyf8RrxoOMEguaXE3ja1aGGNjXqcOMEgLuoC2PTjA4I5RLqhOl379FwQUk80NwUOnLreI6i4QDRdPW6YMCxPt_oZ1fPeVWBq2E46l5wkkzTdzg5Hu2YaJyVfoPGHiUGSbOoo5hEtsCiy-dwkrykNv6deV-NlZmalSq_TaoeeOjJXHG5z-I5EyU-lhzV4yn0Dd0YT7Ly-gig0N27qNvsd8HQ-C_H14Mhbemj2eVHkbFHtvUGLCWTOzhNvstMkwB-fsdzaDg=w800-h531-no)
:o
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^ Should have used a Ruger, not a Smith :-)
(I kid)
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Some people really shouldn't reload.
The "my gun can take it" mentality always comes to a bad end.
And that's only one of several ways/mentalities that can result in bad things happening in your hand.
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Some people really shouldn't reload.
The "my gun can take it" mentality always comes to a bad end.
And that's only one of several ways/mentalities that can result in bad things happening in your hand.
Absolutely, hence ?I kid?
That said there is something to some guns being stronger. There is factory load data out there that explicitly states Ruger only, for what it?s worth.
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There is factory load data out there that explicitly states Ruger only, for what it?s worth.
Is there? I know there's .44 Magnum commercial ammo made by some of the boutique manufacturers like Buffalo Bore that specify "Ruger Only" but didn't know there was published load data that says the same thing. Of course, I don't load magnum revolver cartridges, so it's not surprising I wouldn't know about "Ruger only" load data.
Would you mind pointing some out? I am curious to see it. :)
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I?m not home, otherwise I?d take a picture. I know my manuals have it for 45 colt.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm
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I was referring to standard/regular guns, nothing like the old Colt .45 to the new Ruger .45 comparison for strength or the old Trap Door Springfield .45-70 vs. the new Ruger #1 .45-70 differences.
I was reminded of a guy with a Remington 742 in .30-06 that loaded a grain or two over the max load with 180 grain bullets and bragged that his gun "would take it". He stopped saying that/doing that the day it ripped the rim off the case, blew the primer out into the action and ended his range trip with us. Oh, we let him shoot our guns some - with our loads.
Had to take the 742 home and knock that empty out of the chamber with a cleaning rod - and it took a couple good whacks, too.
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I?m not home, otherwise I?d take a picture. I know my manuals have it for 45 colt.
Gotcha. I am aware of loading .45 Colt over spec for Ruger Blackhawks (and now that I read the Chuckhawk article, the TC) ? but even when it?s published data, it?s overspec. There?s no official spec for that. I thought you meant manufacturers were offering extended Ruger-only data, in general. If I?d known you were talking about this specific instance of loading an old low pressure cartridge for a couple specific models... ;)
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Appreciate the responses, thanks all.