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ARCHIVES => CZF ARCHIVES II => Lights, Lasers and Red Dots => Topic started by: Vinny on December 24, 2017, 09:50:18 AM

Title: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on December 24, 2017, 09:50:18 AM
Hey Guys,
For anyone wishing to try a nice Red Dot set-up on their CZ 75 variant with co-witness FO Front site for under $325 without milling here's a DIY with new images and a parts list. I've run this combo now for over 6 months with great results. Thought I'd share.
(I'm updating an earlier post that had deleted photo-bucket images)
(https://i.imgur.com/Lj6z7ws.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/kKm1qNi.jpg?1)
The mount is a Leupold p/n 170903 for CZ 75's that fits the rear dovetail. ~$29
The optic is a JPoint from JP Enterprises that exactly fits the Leupold mount and has a rear co-witness notch built-in ~on sale ~ $255
The Front FO is .275 tall from Dawson ~$39
(https://i.imgur.com/cGDjI0H.jpg?1)
Simple to do once you remove the old sights. Only 'trick' is I used a single layer of Gorilla duct tape under the mount (cut around dovetail) to help lock it onto the slide. Also had to switch the mount screws to shorter button head socket cap screws 4-.70 x8 from ACE Hardware. This image shows gorilla tape on underside of mount:
(https://i.imgur.com/UPvvEYe.jpg?1)
The combo sits nice and low for a perfect set-up without milling.
 
(https://i.imgur.com/1NtIVSY.jpg?4)
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Tanners Owner on December 24, 2017, 11:06:13 AM
Looks great. No issues with the tape bunching up when you pushed the sight base in?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on December 24, 2017, 11:19:54 AM
Looks great. No issues with the tape bunching up when you pushed the sight base in?

Great question. I pasted the tape on the underside of mount, then took a small razor knife and carefully trimmed around edges and cut out the square where dovetail fits thru. The black Gorilla tape is thick and durable so once screwed down it's locked for good.  Hasn't budged whatsoever.  I'm trying to remember the correct length of button head cap screws; if I recall it was 4mm x 8.

What's nice about this setup is how low it sits w/o milling slide (as scale shows only 3/8" above slide), you only need a .275 tall x 95w F.O. front site $39 from Dawson. Yes, there are other mounting set-ups available for CZ 75's; some make the optic sit way high and I doubt any co-witness setups will sit this low without milling your slide (~$150), and only require a .275 high front site. The higher the red dot sits, the more parallax effect you will have causing your shots to go higher at more distance, or low at close distance. Not a big deal if your target is moment of BG, but for bulls eye shooters this may be important. Anyhow, I like how compact it is without having the expense of milling or permanent alteration of my firearm. My old eyes really appreciate the red dot.  YMMV
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: SP01bob on December 24, 2017, 04:28:20 PM
Ok, I like the way it looks to have it co-witnessed, but isn't the round going to hit wherever the dot is on the optic?  If so, what's the purpose of co-witnessing the dot?  Wouldn't it only slow down sight acquisition?  I'm trying to understand before I go out and do mine.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on December 24, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
Very good question; I'm no expert by any means but here's what I understand:
 
There's a two-fold benefit to co-witness irons.
1. If it's a Defensive pistol; and you draw only to find the red dot is out (electronic or battery failure) the co-witness is your back up sight. In a pressure situation you have the confidence the irons will be there no matter what.
2. The irons serve as a reference to help you bring the red dot into the picture quickly. Eventually, you'll develop muscle memory, and just bring the gun onto plane with the dot.

If it's simply a range gun; and target acquisition time is not important; then co-witness is not important. Springer and others also make mounts for CZ-75's, and there are other good optics like RMR's, Leupold DP-Pro, Burris Fast-Fire, Vortex, etc, etc. but generally the combo of mount and optic they sit much higher. But, they may also have advantages over the JPoint and the price goes up accordingly. YMMV  I'm simply trying to offer a good cost-effective starting point.

I will say this; once you get used to a red dot; you can acquire and hit multiple targets so much faster. You are looking through the 'window' with both eyes fully open not squinting, placing the dot quickly on your target like a laser; so your peripheral vision is fully engaged seeing the next target(s) or other threats in the room. Especially beneficial if you have old eyes like mine.

In any event; co-witness or not; this particular JPoint red dot and mount set-up is still relevant and cost-effective on a CZ 75 even if you choose not to use the co-witness front sight.  If for some reason you don't like the red dot simply remove it and you haven't milled up your slide.
Hope this info helps.

P.S. On the benefits of pistol Red Dots, I defer to much more experienced CZ administrator/members like s0nespark who uses one on his EDC P-07 or Joe L who uses one on his Bulls-eye CZ pistols shooting 100 yard targets lights-out. Joe L's bulls-eye videos blow me away!!
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: 1steelshooter on December 25, 2017, 02:25:07 AM
Ok, I like the way it looks to have it co-witnessed, but isn't the round going to hit wherever the dot is on the optic?  If so, what's the purpose of co-witnessing the dot?  Wouldn't it only slow down sight acquisition?  I'm trying to understand before I go out and do mine.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Co-witnessing is a good thing. Years ago I had a docter red dot on a 75b and it sat high enough that I couldn't co witness the front sight. At times I would bring the gun up and I couldn't find the dot especially weak handed. Being able to see the front sight gives you a guide when looking for the dot.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: SP01bob on December 25, 2017, 02:36:25 AM
Ok, I like the way it looks to have it co-witnessed, but isn't the round going to hit wherever the dot is on the optic?  If so, what's the purpose of co-witnessing the dot?  Wouldn't it only slow down sight acquisition?  I'm trying to understand before I go out and do mine.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Co-witnessing is a good thing. Years ago I had a docter red dot on a 75b and it sat high enough that I couldn't co witness the front sight. At times I would bring the gun up and I couldn't find the dot especially weak handed. Being able to see the front sight gives you a guide when looking for the dot.
That makes sense, thanks for explaining. I'm curious though, if the dot isn't right on or over the front sight, is it still going to be zeroed wherever you see it? In other words, does it have to be on the front sight?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on December 25, 2017, 09:11:34 AM
Before using a red dot, I wondered the same thing. Yes, during the zeroing process the red dot will be just above your irons, but that's not how you'll use it. You'll discover even a slight movement of the muzzle will move the red dot around considerably (kinda like a magnified rifle scope); that's why it's so accurate compared to the irons. Once zeroed in, the red dot is exactlywhere the bullet will hit. Using both eyes open looking through the reticle at the target you'll simply place the dot on your target (generally it will be in the center of the reticle) then you pull the trigger. Bingo, like a laser that's where the bullet will go.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: SP01bob on December 25, 2017, 09:40:39 AM

Very good question; I'm no expert by any means but here's what I understand:
 
There's a two-fold benefit to co-witness irons.
1. If it's a Defensive pistol; and you draw only to find the red dot is out (electronic or battery failure) the co-witness is your back up sight. In a pressure situation you have the confidence the irons will be there no matter what.
2. The irons serve as a reference to help you bring the red dot into the picture quickly. Eventually, you'll develop muscle memory, and just bring the gun onto plane with the dot.

If it's simply a range gun; and target acquisition time is not important; then co-witness is not important. Springer and others also make mounts for CZ-75's, and there are other good optics like RMR's, Leupold DP-Pro, Burris Fast-Fire, Vortex, etc, etc. but generally he combo of mount and optic they sit much higher. But, they may also have advantages over the JPoint and the price goes up accordingly. YMMV  I'm simply trying to offer a good cost-effective starting point.

I will say this; once you get used to a red dot; you can acquire and hit multiple targets so much faster. You are looking through the 'window' with both eyes fully open not squinting, placing the dot quickly on your target like a laser; so your peripheral vision is fully engaged seeing the next target(s) or other threats in the room. Especially beneficial if you have old eyes like mine.

In any event; co-witness or not; this particular JPoint red dot and mount set-up is still relevant and cost-effective on a CZ 75 even if you choose not to use the co-witness front sight.  If for some reason you don't like the red dot simply remove it and you haven't milled up your slide.
Hope this info helps.

P.S. On the benefits of pistol Red Dots, I defer to much more experienced CZ administrator/members like s0nespark who uses one on his EDC P-07 or Joe L who uses one on his Bulls-eye CZ pistols shooting 100 yard targets lights-out. Joe L's bulls-eye videos blow me away!!

Vinny, I really appreciate your explanation. That does make sense.

Not sure if I missed something along the thread, but what is a JPoint? I have a M&P Performance Center with slide slots that I will probably try first, and if I like it I may have a Shadow 2 milled for one. I have a Shadow 2 ordered, not received yet. My SP01  has become my best shooter, so I thought the S2 with a Red Dot would be the next place to go.


Before using a red dot, I wondered the same thing. Yes, during the zeroing process the red dot will be just above your irons, but that's not how you'll use it. You'll discover even a slight movement of the muzzle will move the red dot around considerably (kinda like a magnified rifle scope); that's why it's so accurate compared to the irons. Once zeroed in, the red dot is exactlywhere the bullet will hit. Using both eyes open looking through the reticle at the target you'll simply place the dot on your target (generally it will be in the center of the reticle) then you pull the trigger. Bingo, like a laser that's where the bullet will go.

That makes sense as well. I use a SIRT laser pistol for my dry fire practice and have been training on point/shoot not using the sights. It has helped with my accuracy tremendously and I keep two eyes open, and yes, my eyes are getting older too.

Man I appreciate your time.


Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: newageroman on December 26, 2017, 09:52:50 AM
Great Idea Vinny. You know I like the cheaper options that will put you in the game. I'm commenting to mark this thread for future if I decide to go red dot.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on December 26, 2017, 08:54:26 PM
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Mccian on December 30, 2017, 10:20:36 AM
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.

Hi Vinny,
Anyway you could post a link? I?m unable to find the Leupold 17093 part number.....great idea...
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on December 30, 2017, 02:08:27 PM
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.

Hi Vinny,
Anyway you could post a link? I?m unable to find the Leupold 17093 part number.....great idea...

Thanks for pointing out, I left a zero out of p/n should be: 170903.
You can Google for best deal but here's a link to one at Optics Planet (they frequently run 10% off deals too): https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-deltapoint-pro-dovetail-mount.html?_iv_code=LU-MT-LDPPDMT-170903&image=29ee800dc5 
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Mccian on December 30, 2017, 08:05:28 PM
Thanks for the info [emoji106]
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Catdaddy2 on December 31, 2017, 01:36:48 PM
I like the idea of no milling in the case you don't like it. Looks good and clean on the slide.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: bpnkrtn on February 01, 2018, 01:48:41 PM
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.

Vinny ... did you check out the P-01?  I have interest in this ...

And thanks!
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: William_Broadus on February 01, 2018, 03:52:34 PM
As stated above the dot enhances your ability to be target focused vs. sight focused.  After shooting CO in USPSA last year I found the brain-training made it much easier to be target focused with my iron sight pistols this year

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: SP01bob on February 01, 2018, 04:04:24 PM
As stated above the dot enhances your ability to be target focused vs. sight focused.  After shooting CO in USPSA last year I found the brain-training made it much easier to be target focused with my iron sight pistols this year

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
I've been training my shooting to be two eyes open, and point-shoot with the same goal in mind, with a laser syrt at home. I'm looking forward to trying a red dot on one of mine too.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: KyleWV on February 01, 2018, 07:10:29 PM
Great information, can't wait to try.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on February 02, 2018, 09:15:23 AM
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.

Vinny ... did you check out the P-01?  I have interest in this ...

And thanks!
I've been on vacation so haven't measured yet, but if the rear dovetail is same on full size 75's and compacts, it should work just fine. I believe the top of slide shape is identical.

Can anyone answer if compact 75's like P-01 and full size 75's use the same rear dovetail??
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: DanMore on February 04, 2018, 02:55:39 AM
I have a second upper in 9mm for my Pre B that is just at my gunsmith to have a Docter sight inastalled without milling the slide.

He constructed and built mounting plate for the CZ Shadow 2 on a customer order and adapted that for my Pre B.
He has two versions of it. One with adjustable rear sights and one just the mounting plate.

As soon as I have pics, I will post them here.....;-)
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on February 14, 2018, 10:13:33 PM
Had some questions from Members trying to find this post.
Original Post on December 24th went MIA.
I think CZ Forum may have had an issue on that date; so I'm bringing BTT.
Thanks,  Vinny
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: bpnkrtn on February 17, 2018, 09:33:29 PM
Good information ... thanks.  Do you know if this set-up would work on a Kadet .22 conversion slide?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on February 17, 2018, 09:59:11 PM
Good information ... thanks.  Do you know if this set-up would work on a Kadet .22 conversion slide?

The Leupold CZ 75 mount fits the CZ 75 full and compact slide profile and rear dovetail, but I just don't have a Kadet slide to compare.

Hopefully, someone with Kadet knowledge will chime in.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: gsitexas on February 21, 2018, 10:47:23 PM
Vinny, thank you for this excellent information.

I'm thinking about putting a JPoint red dot sight on my SP-01.

I see that Jpoint offers this RDS in 4 MOA, 8 MOA and a circle dot with 65 MOA with a 1 MOA dot in the center of the circle.

I was wondering if you or any of the forum members has experience with the JPoint circle dot sight on a handgun. Seems like it would be quick to pick up the dot, could be used for quick target acquisition in a home defense situation and the 1 MOA dot might be useful for target shooting at the range. The 65 MOA circle of dots would cover just over 8" at 12.5 yards. It would be interesting to see how accurate one could be using the ring to encircle an 8" paper target.

Any comments form those who have used a sight like this on a handgun for range target practice would be appreciated.

Best regards,

Keith
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: MetalGravy on March 09, 2018, 10:35:48 PM
How many rounds do you have through this setup?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on March 09, 2018, 11:11:58 PM
How many rounds do you have through this setup?

Log book = 1,350 so far, usually shooting hotter ammo like Win Nato or Fiocchi through my SP-01. The mount is made by Leupold for the bigger/heavier DPPro, so once the lighter JPoint is locked down with the additional single layer of Gorilla tape between mount and slide; it hasn't budged whatsoever.  The JPoint RDS is made in UK by Shield for JP Enterprises; in fact I understand it's the original Shield mini-red dot.

You can use this set-up with the DPPro if you prefer a larger, more rugged RDS; but you'll need a very tall front sight, like ~.500+ tall and the optional Leupold rear iron if you want BUIS.  IMHO the JPoint gives you a lower and more cost effective set-up. But YMMV
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: benchmark on March 11, 2018, 01:16:19 PM
Give these guys a look 

https://cajungunworks.com
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: kmanick on March 15, 2018, 09:17:12 AM
I have a Jpoint "shield" mini sight on my M&P Performance center 9L and it's a great sight, very easy to pick up from a draw.
I just bought this CZ custom shop red dot mount from a forum member
https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/red-dot-mounting/multi-sight-base-shado-st-black.html (https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/red-dot-mounting/multi-sight-base-shado-st-black.html)
It won't allow a Co witness, but I've found  that for a competition gun you don't really need to co witness. My M&P is co witnessed but I could remove my iron sights
at this point and I wouldn't miss them at all. I think maybe at first when I was "learning" how to use a Red dot I may have looked for that
front sight (and the front sight on my M&P is tall so very easy to find). this option would've been cheaper (if it will work on a Shadow 2)
so I wish I saw this before I bough the other mount. On a defensive gun I think it's much more important in case the dot dies on you
you still have sights.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on March 18, 2018, 06:28:01 PM
So the Gorilla tape placed UNDER the Leupold mount kit is to fill a gap between mount and slide, providing more surface area contact between slide and mount?  And thus requires the longer screws you obtained at the hardware store?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on March 18, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
So the Gorilla tape placed UNDER the Leupold mount kit is to fill a gap between mount and slide, providing more surface area contact between slide and mount?  And thus requires the longer screws you obtained at the hardware store?

The screws are actually shorter than the ones supplied for the taller Leupold mount.

The slight 'gap' is on each of the top of slide 'ridge'. I was concerned the mount could move left or right slightly. It might work OK without the tape, but I just didn't like taking a chance for any movement.

With the single layer of Gorilla tape, once the screws are snugged down, the tape squishes down tight onto the ridge and nothing moves. 



Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on March 21, 2018, 09:18:37 AM
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.

Vinny ... did you check out the P-01?  I have interest in this ...

And thanks!

Although the Leupold mount works exactly the same on the P-01; because of the shorter barrel I couldn't get enough elevation adjustment to get the JPoint to zero POA-POI. At full adjustment, it still shoots ~8" low. I'm going to contact JP Enterprises who imports these from Shield in UK to see if there's another option.  But until further notice, I can't suggest these for compact 75's; just Full Size 75's and SP-01's.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on March 21, 2018, 09:45:53 AM
Another question: On that Tactical, did you find the raised front sight was a concern with either commercially Kydex or custom leather holsters?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on March 21, 2018, 09:55:09 AM
I can't answer specifically, as my SP-01 is a HD house gun. I would think a Kydex holster modified for a suppressor-height sight would be fine. The Dawson FO is a bit sharp-edged, perhaps a little edge-rounding would be in order.  YMMV
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: Vinny on March 21, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
P.S.  I think this set-up may also work for the Compacts: CZ-75 P-01 and PCR if the rear dovetail is the same??
I think it could be a nice compact red dot for a carry gun.

I have a P-01 and I'll check it out.

Vinny ... did you check out the P-01?  I have interest in this ...

And thanks!

Although the Leupold mount works exactly the same on the P-01; because of the shorter barrel I couldn't get enough elevation adjustment to get the JPoint to zero POA-POI. At full adjustment, it still shoots ~8" low. I'm going to contact JP Enterprises who imports these from Shield in UK to see if there's another option.  But until further notice, I can't suggest these for compact 75's; just Full Size 75's and SP-01's.
UPDATE TODAY:

Wait a minute.......If all else fails...READ THE MANUAL!
I have figured out a solution for the JPoint mount on the shorter barrel P-01.

Here's what the Manual says:
"However, there are occasions when the point of impact of a particular firearm in the elevation range will be outside the adjustment range of the sight. This requires alternate solutions such as shimming the sight."

So, instead of running the Gorilla tape underneath the full length of the mount; I applied the tape just behind the dovetail to act as a shim to tilt the optic mount slightly downward getting me back into adjustment range. Because the screws still hold everything down tight, this should not effect reliability.

Success!  I'll post some pictures:
(https://i.imgur.com/mth08mB.jpg?1)
Tape on just one end underneath mount creates enough 'tilt' to provide elevation adjustment
(https://i.imgur.com/QJZ5V0x.jpg?1)
After dialing in here's a 2"diameter sticky at 10 yards:
(https://i.imgur.com/NxFBMDh.jpg?1)
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on March 21, 2018, 04:35:55 PM
You da man!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: doc171 on March 23, 2018, 03:43:02 PM
Question on this red dot mount of the Delta Point Pro....in the specs it says 60 MOA in vertical adjustment while the Vortex Venom offers 130 MOA adjustment. Wouldn't the Vortex Venom be a better choice to mount without milling the slide, which I would prefer to do.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on March 23, 2018, 05:25:58 PM
Question on this red dot mount of the Delta Point Pro....in the specs it says 60 MOA in vertical adjustment while the Vortex Venom offers 130 MOA adjustment. Wouldn't the Vortex Venom be a better choice to mount without milling the slide, which I would prefer to do.

Fair Question.
What mount would you use for the Venom; and do you want to have BUIS?

This Project is about a cost-effective setup without milling that mounts low enough and achieves BUIS co-witness without a gigantically tall front sight.

I like the Venom, I have three of them mounted (milled) on three different handguns; P-07, P-09 and FN-FNX Tac. If I milled my CZ-75 a Venom would be a good option. I'm trying to avoid milling.

We're talking about using a JPoint, not a DPP. An advantage of the JPoint is that it's one of the smallest mini-RDS, it mounts very low and fits the slide nicely on the Leupold CZ-75 mount, and has a built-in rear iron 'notch' to utilize as your rear iron. The JPoint/Shield are the only other RDS that fit that mount. And unlike the Viper which is another small optic, the JPoint adjustments are accessible on top and side, not back where a rear iron would interfere with adjustment unless drilled through.

Another advantage of the JPoint IMO is it stays on 24/7 so it's always ready, and automatically adjusts to ambient (target) light. If you turn on a flashlight, it adjusts. If you go from a dark room to a bright room, it adjusts.

The JPoint specs say it has 125 inches of vertical adjustment at 100 yards.  That's 125 moa adjustment. But at 10 yards that's 12.5" and I would assume that's like only 6" up or down. Works OK on Full size 75, but shorter barrel Compact P-01 required a slight shim 'tilt' as pictured in thread above.

Hey, after all is said and done; milling in your RDS is the best option; go for the Venom, but it's more $$ and it can't be reversed. YMMV

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: kmanick on March 23, 2018, 08:13:13 PM
I find this thread interesting. I have a Shield minisight on my M&P Performance Center 9L and I also
 had to shim the rear up so there was enough elevation adjustment to zero.
Great sights! I was shooting steel plates today at 35 feet and 75 feet and had no problem ripping them
down at either distance. At what distance did you zero yours at...if I may ask :)
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on March 23, 2018, 09:54:25 PM
I find this thread interesting. I have a Shield minisight on my M&P Performance Center 9L and I also
 had to shim the rear up so there was enough elevation adjustment to zero.
Great sights! I was shooting steel plates today at 35 feet and 75 feet and had no problem ripping them
down at either distance. At what distance did you zero yours at...if I may ask :)

I understand the newer Shield mini-RDS that you have is an upgrade from the JPoint. The new Walther PPS M2 RMSc sub-compact carry comes from the factory with a milled Shield. I like it's compact size, 24/7 ready-on and brightness auto-adjust. IMO less to think about in a pressure situation.

I typically zero at 10 yards.
Due to the fact that barrel and RDS are on slightly different planes, If I shoot a little closer like 5-7 yards Defensive range, the POI is a fraction lower. If I shoot out a little further out say 15 or 20 yards, the POI goes a fraction higher.  Beyond that I think the bullet drop starts to negate the rise. So for me zeroing at 10 yards works.

How bout you?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: kmanick on March 27, 2018, 10:47:09 AM
I also zero-d mine at 10 yard ..well 32 feet. on my M&P. the shield sight allows for co witness so if you need to
find the front sight (which is suppressor height) and bam there is the dot.
I'm actually going to try and zero it out a little further. I was shooting steel plates this weekend at 30 feet, 50 feet and 75 feet and I was missing
quite a few at 75 feet and even at 50. so 50 feet will probably be the distance I try.
I also just received the CZ custom shop optics mount in the mail. this is a dove tail mount replacing the rear sight. It will take
 the shield ,the venom and the Trijicon, I have access to all 3. I'm just a little Leary of taking off my rear sight as to how I'm
going to zero it when I put it back on, but if it works well , I will probably sell the M&P and get another shadow, I shoot the shadow
much more consistently than I do the  M&P, or a target II , my buddy has one and I shoot that well too.
With the shadow 2 8" steel plates at 75 feet is a complete non issue using the  iron sights. I have a bit of trouble at that distance with polymer guns,
I tend to move a bit bit more , they are so light I have to really clamp d own my support hand alot more than I do with the CZ's:(
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: SP01bob on March 27, 2018, 11:10:35 AM
I have a Jpoint "shield" mini sight on my M&P Performance center 9L and it's a great sight, very easy to pick up from a draw.
I just bought this CZ custom shop red dot mount from a forum member
https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/red-dot-mounting/multi-sight-base-shado-st-black.html (https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/red-dot-mounting/multi-sight-base-shado-st-black.html)
It won't allow a Co witness, but I've found  that for a competition gun you don't really need to co witness. My M&P is co witnessed but I could remove my iron sights
at this point and I wouldn't miss them at all. I think maybe at first when I was "learning" how to use a Red dot I may have looked for that
front sight (and the front sight on my M&P is tall so very easy to find). this option would've been cheaper (if it will work on a Shadow 2)
so I wish I saw this before I bough the other mount. On a defensive gun I think it's much more important in case the dot dies on you
you still have sights.
The dot could fail during a competition or emergency. It wise to keep iron sights as a backup.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Coldhammerforged on May 24, 2018, 03:10:49 AM
Thanks for the info
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: mbliss57 on December 24, 2019, 12:10:46 AM
Thanks for the info. I am just starting to try to figure out how to put a red dot (reflex sight) on several CZs...  CZ75, CZ75BD anb CZ 75 SP-01 Phantom. This is a good start, I am still not sure if I can use the dovetails or if I need to have the slide milled on each variant.     
 I am sure I will like it.. as my older eyes have needed this for awhile. I won't need to co witness as it's a range gun and I am currently not doing any competition.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on December 24, 2019, 06:49:25 AM
Thanks for the info. I am just starting to try to figure out how to put a red dot (reflex sight) on several CZs...  CZ75, CZ75BD anb CZ 75 SP-01 Phantom. This is a good start, I am still not sure if I can use the dovetails or if I need to have the slide milled on each variant.     
 I am sure I will like it.. as my older eyes have needed this for awhile. I won't need to co witness as it's a range gun and I am currently not doing any competition.
This is an older thread; if anything RDS have become more popular in the past two years, so there may be some new dovetail mount options for your 75 variants. The Leupold mount for CZ-75's with a DPPro is still viable.  What optic are you considering?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: EZ128 on December 24, 2019, 09:53:45 PM
Hi Vinny:

Your thread was my starting point in search of a RDS on my CZs. I have a Shadow 2 OR with precut now for matches. I also have an SP01 Shadow with a rear sight dovetail mounted plate with a Vortex Venom on it. The Shadow 2 OR comes with a co witness FO. I have been trying to find a suitable front sight for my Shadow with its plate set up. Note the plate is about sits about 2mm higer than your. I figure even the Dawson Precision .370 inch black sight( tallest I can found) may be about 2-3 mm too short. Any advice?

Thanx!(http://)
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on December 25, 2019, 02:27:45 PM
Hi Vinny:

Your thread was my starting point in search of a RDS on my CZs. I have a Shadow 2 OR with precut now for matches. I also have an SP01 Shadow with a rear sight dovetail mounted plate with a Vortex Venom on it. The Shadow 2 OR comes with a co witness FO. I have been trying to find a suitable front sight for my Shadow with its plate set up. Note the plate is about sits about 2mm higer than your. I figure even the Dawson Precision .370 inch black sight( tallest I can found) may be about 2-3 mm too short. Any advice?

Thanx!(http://)
Thanks EZ, I'm All-in on Red Dots as they've really helped my 'ol eyes stay in the game.
So I've tried to share my journey, good and in a few cases not so good. (like a Shield RMS on my 1st P-01 - just too flimsy an optic).
I'm so used to presenting my pistols now with both eyes focused on the target, the dot just appears and I NEVER look at the BUIS. However, for a SD pistol I still like 'em there.
You can use Dawson's on-line sight height calculator to determine the additional front height you need by entering the average distance between your existing POA vs actual POI at a specific distance (I use 10yds for SD). Obviously, with a dovetail mount it'll be pretty tall.
Good Luck in your journey.  Please keep us posted.  -Vinny
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: fhunziker on December 31, 2019, 03:54:29 PM
Are you still recommending the Jpoint RDS or now the DPPro for non-milled solution? Seems if a person is spending that much they might as well spring for an RMR. 

Also, how do you choose which MOA?


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Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on December 31, 2019, 05:03:00 PM
Are you still recommending the Jpoint RDS or now the DPPro for non-milled solution? Seems if a person is spending that much they might as well spring for an RMR. 

Also, how do you choose which MOA?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fair question. This thread is several years old; and like all things electronic, the playing field can change quickly. The thread initially was an exercise in trying to add a low-mount red dot w/o milling and BUIS at low cost. It did the job OK, but I really can't recommend J-Points now. They're rather flimsy and the plastic lens requires extreme care to clean w/o scratching. Ditto for Shield products, maker of J-Points. The JPoint sits atop my tactical shotgun now, so it wasn't $ wasted.

I ended up liking red dots, and milling my pistols for DPPro and Vortex Venoms with two exceptions: my RAMI BD where the small RMR window is actually more fitting for the size of the pistol and my SIG 229 RX which came with Sig Romeo 1 (now over 8k rounds w/o failure). You can't argue the ruggedness of RMR's but until the SRO Trijicon was losing market share in competition due to small window. If you go with an RMR it will certainly serve you well, but there are other good choices for less $. Some really like the Holosun 507c but I haven't tried one yet.

For competitive shooting and full-size pistol, I prefer a large optic like DPPro, and dot size like 6moa. Longer range like bull's eye, a smaller dot, 3moa or less.

But it really comes down to how you want to use it and what features are important.

Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on December 31, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
My SP-01 slide is getting milled for a HS 507c as we speak. The intent is for competition.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on January 01, 2020, 08:27:03 AM
My SP-01 slide is getting milled for a HS 507c as we speak. The intent is for competition.
Seems like a good choice for competition or SD. A recent podcast interviewing top RDS experts rated the 507c very highly.  Please let us know how it works out, with images if you can.  Thx  -Vinny
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on January 01, 2020, 08:29:36 AM
My SP-01 slide is getting milled for a HS 507c as we speak. The intent is for competition.
Seems like a good choice for competition or SD. A recent podcast interviewing top RDS experts rated the 507c very highly.  Please let us know how it works out, with images if you can.  Thx  -Vinny
No problem...
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: rckendall on January 08, 2020, 12:04:57 PM
Thank you Vinny for this thread and keeping it alive. I am interested for sure but my glasses are still keeping me in the game with iron sights. I'm now thinking about getting my feet wet on a Scorpion which I will have in a couple days.

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this.

Richard
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on January 09, 2020, 04:37:50 PM
SP-01 Tactical milled for RMR/Holosun 507c. Will take it to range Sunday!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200109/5700dfd94596908fd93ac477306bdb84.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200109/99d03ae80bdfa0621612ab45189d9514.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200109/5088f166e3a3b09e2e403df1ff3e71d3.jpg)
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on January 09, 2020, 06:03:45 PM
Boss,
Looks like a nice clean mount that fits the CZ-75 slide perfectly! Who did the milling and mount?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on January 09, 2020, 06:11:20 PM
Boss,
Looks like a nice clean mount that fits the CZ-75 slide perfectly! Who did the milling and mount?
Primary Machine. It looks flawless.
John
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on January 12, 2020, 03:06:20 PM
Boss,
Looks like a nice clean mount that fits the CZ-75 slide perfectly! Who did the milling and mount?
Primary Machine. It looks flawless.
John
After sighting in the red dot, my first attempt at 10 yards, 1second between shots. Threw in a few quick double action decocked attempts. I am sold!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200112/613e727530bc73c899cd6a002b512a07.jpg)
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: pcar157 on January 14, 2020, 11:51:43 AM
Boss,
Looks like a nice clean mount that fits the CZ-75 slide perfectly! Who did the milling and mount?
Primary Machine. It looks flawless.
John

boss, what mounting plate did you use for the Holosun and where did you purchase it?
thanks
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: pcar157 on January 14, 2020, 11:55:51 AM
Vinny I think Shields now makes the RMS and the RMSc with a glass lens. Think Brownell's is one of their distributors.  In the past I had used the RMSc on a Walther PPQ and found the plastic lens very difficult to keep clean and not scratch. But I did love the low profile. Now with the glass lens option, might be a new game in town!!

I want to correct my statement. Seems as though Shields now makes a RMS "W" meaning waterproof and that is the optic with the glass lens. Didn't mean to mislead anyone!!!!
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: boss281 on January 14, 2020, 12:01:23 PM
Boss,
Looks like a nice clean mount that fits the CZ-75 slide perfectly! Who did the milling and mount?
Primary Machine. It looks flawless.
John

boss, what mounting plate did you use for the Holosun and where did you purchase it?
thanks

PCAR, I used the Primary Machine mount option, which works for both Holosun 507/508 and Trij RMR.  For my full size SP-01 Tactical mill work, this link was the proper selection on Primary Machine's site. I think for the 75 compacts there is a separate link that doesn't offer an adapter as an option. http://primarymachine.com/cz-75-85-1911-2011-mill-for-rmr/
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: pcar157 on January 14, 2020, 01:49:18 PM
Boss,
Looks like a nice clean mount that fits the CZ-75 slide perfectly! Who did the milling and mount?
Primary Machine. It looks flawless.
John

boss, what mounting plate did you use for the Holosun and where did you purchase it?
thanks

PCAR, I used the Primary Machine mount option, which works for both Holosun 507/508 and Trij RMR.  For my full size SP-01 Tactical mill work, this link was the proper selection on Primary Machine's site. I think for the 75 compacts there is a separate link that doesn't offer an adapter as an option. http://primarymachine.com/cz-75-85-1911-2011-mill-for-rmr/

Thanks boss! Much appreciated
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: J10mm on May 13, 2020, 12:27:15 PM
Any one have experience with the durability of the Vortex Venom? Seems like the cost equivalent to the JPoint with a better warranty.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on May 13, 2020, 03:30:00 PM
Yes, Excellent Optic especially considering they're nearing only $200 now. I've had 3 of them several years.
Way better that the J-points I bought 4-5 years ago. A lot has changed since this post started in 2017.  ;)
P-01 by CZ Custom, P-07 by Primary, FNX-45 Tactical came optic-ready.
(https://i.imgur.com/U4ART5I.jpg?2)
(https://i.imgur.com/SEd2o7d.jpg?3)
(https://i.imgur.com/nwqhtbC.jpg?2)


Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: mig1nc on June 09, 2020, 07:34:25 AM
Yes, Excellent Optic especially considering they're nearing only $200 now. I've had 3 of them several years.
Way better that the J-points I bought 4-5 years ago. A lot has changed since this post started in 2017.  ;)
P-01 by CZ Custom, P-07 by Primary, FNX-45 Tactical came optic-ready.
(https://i.imgur.com/U4ART5I.jpg?2)
(https://i.imgur.com/SEd2o7d.jpg?3)
(https://i.imgur.com/nwqhtbC.jpg?2)

Without the plate on your P-01, would that Vortex sit low enough to cowitness stock sights?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on June 09, 2020, 09:17:57 AM
Quote from mig1nc:
"Without the plate on your P-01, would that Vortex sit low enough to cowitness stock sights?"

The answer I believe is NO.  But you could confirm what currently available optics might from the knowledgeable shops that mill like Primary Machine, CGW, CZC, etc.

My other P-01 was milled by Primary two years ago to fit a Shield RMS. Small enough to fit between the stock sights for co-witness, but IMHO it's a cheaply made and expensive optic and I wouldn't recommend it. There are a number of new micro optics coming out and I'm especially hopeful that the Holosun 407K/507K will be small enough to fit between the stock sights and lower 1/3 co-witness like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/40zsXiy.jpg?3)
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: CZ4 today on July 06, 2020, 01:03:34 AM
Vinny: Did the Jpoint just happen to fit on the Leupold mount--or did you have to do some additional modification? Any thoughts on a similar non-milled low mount setup using a Vortex Venom?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on July 07, 2020, 08:54:27 AM
Vinny: Did the Jpoint just happen to fit on the Leupold mount--or did you have to do some additional modification? Any thoughts on a similar non-milled low mount setup using a Vortex Venom?
The footprint and locking bosses of Leupold Delta Point Pro also fit the JPoint and Shield. So yes, the various adapter plates offered by Leupold to fit a number of firearms (like my S&W N Frame revolver) for the DPPro will also adapt the JPoint. However, the Venom is a different footprint (although IMO it's a better red dot than the JPoint/Shield). There are quite a few dovetail mounts like Springer Precision's available for the Venom or other red dots, but they will of course make the optic sit higher than a milled-in slide.
Hope that answered your question(s).
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Kayin on October 11, 2020, 07:09:17 PM
Do you think this option would work well for a SP-01 Phantom or a Tristar T-120?
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: Vinny on October 11, 2020, 07:43:27 PM
Do you think this option would work well for a SP-01 Phantom or a Tristar T-120?
I really don't know IF the rear dovetail and shape of the slide is the same as the CZ-75??
You could check with CZC and/or Leupold.
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $300
Post by: melsauto on February 04, 2021, 01:59:25 PM
Looks great. No issues with the tape bunching up when you pushed the sight base in?
With this work on my just purchased Sp 01.
Thanks
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: mig1nc on February 27, 2021, 08:38:26 AM
I just ordered the mount. Going to try add pick up a Holosun HS507K and trim the mount to fit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: mig1nc on February 28, 2021, 12:54:19 PM
Mount came in from optics planet. A new shipping record for them!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210228/88a27933f98248b7b6bf972930322d56.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210228/74961b26beae844203aed85761ff9fa0.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210228/9103d06267e9f65ee88e8233bfd79d7b.jpg)



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Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: mig1nc on March 04, 2021, 05:08:44 PM
All done. Now I need the Dawson's front sight to finish up. One thing to note, the 507K requires removing the rear lugs and sanding down the front ones a little bit.

I then had to shim up the back of the mount because the holosun wouldn't adjust down far enough.


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210304/39861ddb23238735c76f7b24628547e2.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: songalong on June 06, 2021, 03:08:51 PM
All done. Now I need the Dawson's front sight to finish up. One thing to note, the 507K requires removing the rear lugs and sanding down the front ones a little bit.

I then had to shim up the back of the mount because the holosun wouldn't adjust down far enough.


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210304/39861ddb23238735c76f7b24628547e2.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm having issues with this particular set up on my SP01 and Holosun 407k.

1) How does the dovetail fit into the dovetail sight cutout on the Sp01 slide? My leupold provided dovetail slides in but without any traction, it literally just slips into it but has a good amount of play/wobble in all directions, left/right/up/down. This makes me wonder what the attachment mechanism is meant to do, how is the 407k meant to sit nightlight against the slide?

2) Which screws were used to mount the red dot? The holosun 407k screws or the leupold ones?

3) When you say shim, what/where did you shim the mount? What did you use to shim?

Thanks for answering all my questions, I just bought the my long awaited SP01 and can't fathom milling it anytime soon =(
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: mig1nc on June 18, 2021, 07:24:54 AM
So, an update on this project.

The holosun 507K does not have enough vertical adjustment to use the mount as it is. I was only able to zero using the bottom hashmark on the circle reticle.

I'm about ready to give up on the project and just have it milled by my gunsmith. The only other option I can see is getting this angled adapter plate that gives more adjustment: https://www.ebay.com/itm/323928166601?hash=item4b6b9f90c9:g:QtIAAOSwUG1di9Tu
Title: Re: CZ-75 Red Dot and Co-Witness for under $325
Post by: songalong on June 21, 2021, 03:49:39 PM
I ended up buying a universal mount by CZ customs. They claim that they don't have a mount for the 407k/507k however I think they make that claimbecause the metal nubs that they include with the dovetail mounts need to be filed, sanded, grinded down. It seems to fit well though the Holosun sits a little forward in the universal plate. The plate is also very slightly angled downward so I would believe that that would solve for the vertical adjustment issue you have since I was able to easily zero my optic.

https://czcustom.com/multi-sight-base-75-st-black.html