The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: mrcabinet on December 30, 2017, 12:10:49 PM
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Last week, over a three day period, I loaded 970 rounds on my Classic Turret. That consisted of 9's, .38 spcl., .45 and .223. I've been thinking about a progressive press for a while now and that last marathon cemented the idea. I know, the Dillion's and LnL are the best, but my after Christmas budget simply doesn't allow it. With the year end deals going on I can get a Load Master 9mm set up for $228.59 to my door. Not even a used 550 can come close to that.
Unfortunately, the seven turrets I have for the Classic won't work with the Load Master so I'll have to get the five hole turrets and five shell plates for the calibers I load. The good news is that a coworker has expressed interest in my classic - for a price that will easily cover the extra items I'd need.
Am I making the right choice? Any tips or tricks I should know about?
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About 10 years ago I sold my Dillon 650 and 1050 after having rotator cuff surgery it took me about a year before I ran out of reloaded ammo. That's when I bought my first Lee Loadmaster I now have three. I found that if you use all 5 stations and run a univ. decap die in station 1 and your sizing die with the pin removed in station 2 do not crimp the case in station 4 and crimp in station 5 they run great. My last two loadmasters were bought used off ebay from people who were not smart enough to use them for $100 each. One machine came with 5 sets of dies and 5 shell plates. Take your time and check out all the video's on you tube one more thing I've learned is to use a little bit of case lube when you load 9mm on larger cases it's not needed. When loading pistol and revolver rounds I avg. between 450 - 600 per hour. Good luck I hope you find this info useful.
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I use one as well. Once you get it tweaked and set up correctly (as well as understanding it's shortcomings), it can be a good progressive press. I can consistently load 600 rounds/hour (pistol ammo) without really pushing it too hard on mine. Biggest thing is keep that bleep primer alley clean!
Here's some links for more info and parts that will help you out to be more successful with it...
http://manual.loadmastervideos.com/intro.htm
http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/
http://www.mikesreloadingbench.com/mikes%20reloading%20bench_013.htm
https://inlinefabrication.com/collections/lee
https://fsreloading.com/
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Loadmasters are decent presses but can require some careful setup and tinkering to run well. The biggest issues most people complain about are the primer system and the case feed system. Both can and do work well, but if they are a little off in the beginning it can take some work to get them right. I have had up to 4 Loadmasters at one time, down to 3 now, bought them all used and pretty abused except for one, so 3 had to be basically rebuilt from close to scratch, but in the end they all run great.
If I were you I would get a progressive without any more consideration. If you are even a little handy and don't mind some tinkering a loadmaster can run fantastic and do so way cheaper than anything else. They will never be the sheer quality of a Dillon, but I will put my pistol reloads up against anyone else's, including commercial loads with confidence.
If you go with one I would be happy to give you the cliff notes version on what you need to do to get it and keep it running well, and a real simple way to have 100% confidence in priming your cases on the press.
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Thank you for all the info. I'm going to order one today. I am a tinkerer at heart, so this doesn't scare me at all.
Has anyone used the bullet feeder with it? It seems like it would be a good addition, along with the case collator.
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Yes on the collator, no on the bullet feeder. I don't think Ive ever seen anyone ever have anything good to say about Lee's bullet feeder. The other side of it is it takes a bit to setup and I load several different bullet profiles and it would be more headache than its worth, at least to me.
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That's too bad on the bullet feeder. It looks so good in the videos!
Dave33, I will definitely take you up on that cliff notes offer once I get the press.
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If at all possible I advise people to buy a press based on output volume, and NOT price. Even if the next 52 weeks is at 2/3 of that 970 round volume, you'll save enough over store-bought to afford almost any press you want. True... you do have to come up with some cash, but...
You have already discovered the pitfall. Once you are into an automated press of any type, none of the shell holders or turrets can be used on the next better version. Since I always loose money when I "move up", it's better for me to go ahead and get what I need/want from the get go. Especially when I consider the costs of the extra shell holders and turrets.
Just saying. ;)
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I loaded on a loadmaster for years and loved it. I would occasionally have a problem that would cause me to have to tweak something in the middle of a reloading session but for the most part the press ran extremely well. I was averaging 450-500rnds an hour which was fine for my needs. I was loading some rounds for a match one morning and it seemed like everything was going wrong. So instead of being patient and cleaning my press, which was the only thing wrong with it, I ordered a new 1050 with a Mr. Bullet feeder. At times I regret that purchase even though I can load 1600 rounds an hour. I wish I had just cleaned my dang loadmaster and saved myself $2k. Keep that loadmaster clean and lubed and you will really enjoy it. Make sure that the ball on the handle is TIGHT!!!!. I almost threw mine through the wall one night after that slipped off and I raked my forearm down the handle. I would also recommend the autodrum. It is an inexpensive piece of equipment that will save you time while you are developing a load. It is also much cleaner than the disks. Congrats and Happy New Year.
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Be careful with the priming system. There is no shielding, and if you pop a primer they will all go off. They do sell a $5 shield for a reason. This is compounded by every action happening on the downstroke, meaning you can?t feel if there?s a problem.
Just my two cents after having 100 primers turn into a hand gernade on me on one of those machines.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I already have the autodrum, so I would be swapping that over. And just to clarify, that 970 rounds last week was an anomaly. I don't always load every week, but when I do it is usually in the 250 t0 300 range. I didn't have a chance to order it yesterday, but instead took some time to do a little more research.
How easy is it to switch between calibers? I load seven different calibers, so that's a big issue for me. Do you have to tinker and adjust each time you switch, or is it just a matter of swapping turrets and shell holders and you're up and running? I have dedicated turrets for each caliber I run on the classic and I had planned to do the same for the load master. It literally takes me five minutes to fully switch over on the classic. Can I expect the same from the load master?
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If you keep a dedicated too head for each calibur, which I do and highly recommend, calibur changes are fast and easy. There are 4 parts at most you would change, the tool head, shell plate, primer parts, and case slider, but they only take a minute or two each to do, and if you are loading the same primers size, or similar case size, you wont need to do all at once. When I switch between 9 and 40, its a simple tool head and case slider swap, can be done in a couple minutes.
I usually do a cleaning job between caliber changes which doesn't take very long either, maybe 15 mins depending on how dirty it is and how in detail I want to be.
Are you ordering from a Lee dealer or a kit from Amazon or somewhere like that? If a Lee dealer, I would suggest getting a few other odds and ends while you are at it to save on shipping.
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I'm looking at ordering from a Lee dealer. Besides a universal decapping die, what else do you recommend? I'll most likely order a 9mm setup, along with a turret and plate for .45 to get started.
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I'm looking at ordering from a Lee dealer. Besides a universal decapping die, what else do you recommend? I'll most likely order a 9mm setup, along with a turret and plate for .45 to get started.
You will need large primer parts, larger case slider, and large case feed parts to go to .45. I would also order an extra primer feed for large and small primer as I have some that work perfect and some that dont work worth a crap. Hard to explain, I guess its lee's loose tolerances, but I have some primer sliders that just dont work well, and some that work perfectly.
I would order the primer blast shield, but not for the safety aspect of it though that is a side benefit. Let me explain my primer setup and why I like it best. I dont like the use of a universal die in station one and a resize die in station two. I like to watch each case get primed while I load my ammo. I do this by having a blast shield on my press, using a small clamp to hold a flexible inspection mirror over the station two hole, and a small flexible light angled to let me look in every case and watch the primer get inserted. No more guessing if my case is primed, I watch it happen. If I have a bad case or some other issue with a case not getting primed I see it, yank that piece of brass off as the shell plate rotates, and keep on going.
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If you plan on using all 5 stations you will need a 4 die set or buy a taper crimp or factory crimp die for station #5
There is a indention in the center of the tool head that holds your dies I always drill it out and place a small flashlight there.
The light makes it easy to check your powder at station #4 before seating a bullet. I load while standing and mount the machine at eye level on a solid table where it can't rock or move around. Your fired primers fall into the hollow center of the ram there is a trap door at the bottom of the ram dump it after each use.
Have fun and load a butt load of quality ammo.
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After reading all the info provided by forum members several times, perusing virtually every post about them on the interwebs and watching a ton of Youtube videos, I went ahead and ordered a Load Master 9mm setup. Do I see a Dillon, Hornady or RCBS in my future? Yes, but that will be years down the road and long after I get my money's worth out of this.
The plan is to keep this set up for 9mm and look at .45 as the next caliber after I get very comfortable with it. I'm keeping the Classic Turret for the time being and using both as needed. I'll make another plate that matches my existing one so swapping them out on my bench won't take anything at all. I foresee loading larger quantities at one sitting instead of just what I need for the next outing.
I don't have an engineering degree but am the engineering manager for a wood products company that does $60m a year. It's owned by a very "frugal" (i.e., cheap a**) investment group, so I usually have to achieve the end results by tweaking and modifying existing equipment and processes. So, it sounds like the Load Master should be right up my alley!
And, I found a RCBS 9mm bullet feeder locally for 20 bucks, so that will just add to the tinkering.
Thanks again for all the replies!
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Lee sells a quick change bench plate #90251 it works great and only cost $25
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I make my mount from scrap for $0 and use T-Nuts on the underside of the bench. With a cordless driver it takes maybe two minutes to change and is solid as a rock.
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2 things...
? I highly advise watching all the Load Master videos on Ultimate Reloader.Com . IMHO he does the best reloading videos out there... right camera work... right loading speed... good information.
http://ultimatereloader.com/2015/03/11/lee-loadmaster-video-breaks-new-record/
? You'll be loading 4 times faster with the Load Master versus the Classic Turret. Are you sure you're ready for the avalanche of ammo coming your way ? O0
Happy new year !
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Thanks for the link, Wobbly. I believe I've watched some of his videos before but have never been to his site. Very informative!
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A little late but glad to help as well. All the advice are great. I am not sure if someone has mentioned that having a solid mount is really important specially with the way that the priming system works. I spent about 2 1/2 hours loading 330 rounds of 9mm with my load master. I was going slow and checking my charge every time one of the tubes of the case feeder gets emptied.
Anyway here is my reply from another forum I frequent regarding mounting the Load Master.
"My garage is very small that forces me to have my stuff in casters or hung in the walls.
My woodworker bench is from Festool MFT bench (43" x 28"). I made the roller cart to house the MFT bench, vacuum and other tools. The MFT table has holes on it so that you add stoppers, clamps, etc like a welding table.
Because the MFT bench has a attachments slide rails, it occurred to me to build a pedestal for my Loadmaster an attached into my MFT bench instead of building a dedicated bench.
The Loadmaster pedestal is made out of 2x4's and 1/2" AL plate that was leftover from a project. I made the front legs to be further out from the press to minimize flexing. At the bottom, some adjustable screw legs from Lowes. When I reload, I put a sheet of craft paper on top so that I don't loose stuff in between the MFT and the cart.
When reloading, I sit in front of the bullet seating station (7-8 o'clock as viewed in the picture) that way I have a clear view of the powder level before placing the bullet.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ox2N5ZYs_2Y/VsX2Yo2SlEI/AAAAAAAAAjU/14NNiI7wSbE/s478-Ic42/1b.jpg)
My MFT workbench
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oMYA3TrB8fQ/VsX1J4yN6NI/AAAAAAAAAjU/rhXusCAUGsA/s512-Ic42/IMG_3889.JPG)
Loadmaster pedestal attached to workbench
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MykrdVpWFiY/VsX1KoHS5uI/AAAAAAAAAjU/bT4T4mhkVmw/s640-Ic42/IMG_3890.JPG)
Loadmaster recessed in "
By the way here is my youngest one helping loading some clean 9mm cases into the case feeder
(https://i.imgur.com/cWZvEt9.jpg?1)
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oMYA3TrB8fQ/VsX1J4yN6NI/AAAAAAAAAjU/rhXusCAUGsA/s512-Ic42/IMG_3889.JPG)
Loadmaster pedestal attached to workbench
And IMHO, that's exactly the way to do it. A solid support directly underneath the press to end any kind of bench flexing, then attaching the support to something larger to keep the unit from swaying.
If you look at the UltimateReloader.Com videos, he uses a 3" steel tube with flat plates on each end, then bolts this to the front of his bench.
BTW... where did you find that goose neck lamp ?
;)
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And IMHO, that's exactly the way to do it. A solid support underneath to end flexing of any kind, then attaching the support to something larger to keep the unit from swaying.
BTW... where did you find that goose neck lamp ?
;)
Yep, it is pretty solid. It barely moves. To verify the press flexing, I put a torpedo level on top of the press and push the lever several times. I could barely see the level bubble move. The funny thing is that I almost fell off from my stool when the ball handle came out from the lever. Yep, it was something that everyone has warned about :)
That lamp I got it at Ikea for $10. It comes with a metal base. I took the base out attached the lamp on the aluminum plate. It is so useful since I can move it around where I need it. It is LED and it does not put that much heat. The color output is warm (3,200 K) perfect for me since I don't like my light to be in the cold side. I have bee using it for the last two years with no issues.
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20169658/
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By the way here is my youngest one helping loading some clean 9mm cases into the case feeder
(https://i.imgur.com/cWZvEt9.jpg?1)
This is the world's best bullet feeder. I had one like this for a long time,
then he moved out and got married. :-\
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Good Lord. Save Your sanity and buy a Dillon.
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Station 1 under size decapping die
Station 2 universal flare (I use all coated bullets) prime
Station 3 Hornady lnl powder dispenser
Station 4 seating die
Station 5 taper crimp
I use this in 9 and 40 and has been great for me
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I have been reloading on a loadmaster for a few years, and am real happy with it's performance. Haven't any experience using any other green , blue or red presses. There is a lot of good web support if needed. My advice and suggestions, no need to over tighten shell plate, snug is good enough. Use auto drum to dispense powder, hell buy two, they're cheap.Have safe fun.
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I ran across this site the other day. There's some great information on there.
http://loadmastervideos.com/
So far I've loaded a couple hundred trouble free 9mm. I did take the time during assembly to smooth, buff and lubricate any parts that rubbed together, so its operation is really nice. I have it set up with universal de-prime, size/primer, powder/flare, rcbs bullet feeder then seat/crimp. I've only ran the FCD on 9mm in the past, so it is not being used in this setup now. They gauge fine, so I just have to wait for the weather to break so I can test them out.
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I ran across this site the other day. There's some great information on there.
http://loadmastervideos.com/
So far I've loaded a couple hundred trouble free 9mm. I did take the time during assembly to smooth, buff and lubricate any parts that rubbed together, so its operation is really nice. I have it set up with universal de-prime, size/primer, powder/flare, rcbs bullet feeder then seat/crimp. I've only ran the FCD on 9mm in the past, so it is not being used in this setup now. They gauge fine, so I just have to wait for the weather to break so I can test them out.
Glad to hear your loadmaster is working well for you. Good idea polishing the wear points, I have found if you polish the underside of the shell plate and the ribs it rides on within the carrier it makes operation smooth as glass. If you didn't, also polish the bar the case slider rides on top and bottom. Makes case feeding much smoother as well.
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Already done, Dave33. Trust me, if it moves, its been hit with 800 grit and then fluffed and buffed.
Even though I run carbide dies, I found that a light spritz of One Shot on the cases before dumping them in the collator makes a world of difference too. Doing five processes at once definitely adds to the felt friction/resistance.
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And FYI, if you're going to run 9mm on one of these, get a 6s shellplate and do the modification to it. It works like a charm.
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Even though I run carbide dies, I found that a light spritz of One Shot on the cases before dumping them in the collator makes a world of difference too.
One Shot works even better if you'll give it 24 hours to dry. I keep my brass in the big plastic coffee canisters. I simply shoot the One Shot into the canister a day or so before using the brass.
Try that. ;)
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post up a pic! :)
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I have been reloading with a Lee Single Press for 2 years, with an average of 8000 rounds a year. Few weeks ago I decided it was time to upgrade from it.
After a little bit of research, I decided to go with the Lee Loadmaster. I ordered one. I received it. I put it together. I spent 4 hours adjusting all the stations. Then when it was time to run, well, the Loadmaster ran like a press should run.
But I believe Lee has been watching many hours of Youtube mods videos, because the indexing was already set, most of the contact parts were already polished and the primer loading arm was smooth. It even feed and primed my Sellier & Bellot primers perfectly. I still had to tinker a bit with the press, but mostly to get acquainted with it and put grease in a few places. I still think people not too mechanically inclined should stay away from it.
My 3 issues I have with the Loadmaster are:
The Auto Disk powder measure that came with the press is not as accurate as one should be. But there are aftermarket solutions to correct that.
The Powder measure chain. It works but its in the way, so I replaced it with a spring
(https://i.imgur.com/9Doehha.jpg)
This is the spring's size
(https://i.imgur.com/k4XJubH.jpg)
2 of the press to bench attachments are too close to the edge of the bench, so I removed some wood out of the bench to offer more clearance for the ram and sat the press deeper onto the bench.
(https://i.imgur.com/yg0ABoP.jpg)
Other than those nitpicking issues, the press runs like a charm.
[Mods put width on photos]
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I agree that the Loadmaster is not for those that are not a tinkerer or mechanically inclined. It's not a bolt it to the bench and start loading type of unit. There is a definite learning curve, which will involve a few Ah-Ha! and Dang It! moments. I have about 3k rounds of 9mm and .45 through mine now, the last 2k or so virtually trouble free. The only issues I've had lately are directly attributable to operator error.
And BTW, the case-activated Auto Drum works great on it. I transferred mine over from the turret press and put the Auto Disk (with micro-bar) on the turret. I still use the Classic Turret for lower volume calibers and load development.
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And BTW, the case-activated Auto Drum works great on it. I transferred mine over from the turret press and put the Auto Disk (with micro-bar) on the turret. I still use the Classic Turret for lower volume calibers and load development.
I was thinking about witching to the Auto Drum, but the Auto Disk is still doing a good enough job for me, so the Auto Drum is on the back burner for now. But I really appreciate your input.