The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Cajun Gun Works => Topic started by: schmeky on April 25, 2018, 09:17:51 AM
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We'll have new disco's in production next week with delivery of the new Shadow 1 & 2 Reach Reduction Kits available around mid-May. These will comply with USPSA Production rules effective May 16, 2018.
Same price as our other RRK's, $88.00 and will include our proven 75585 Old Style trigger in stainless steel, new disco, and retaining pin.
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How much for just the disconnector since I already have your 75585 old style trigger?
Thanks.
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are we there yet? Are we there yet? O0
Are the kits ready yet? I just cleared my CC debt from buying the Shadow 2. :)
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X2. Ready to buy one myself! Just ordered a bunch of parts from yal yesterday too.
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X3
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Will this also shorten the reset of a Shadow 2 as well, or just reduce the reach distance of the trigger?
I see the SRS kits but for not for the Shadow... Follow up question is which part if the right one to purchase to just shorten the reset of a Shadow 2?
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Disco's are in production, we will have 2 new disco's.
1) Short reset and reach reduction disco sold with our 75585 Old Style stainless steel trigger as a new RRK "kit" part number
2) New S-2 disco only for short reset, "may" drop in on a few S-2'ss, but majority will require very minor fitting, will be a new part number
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Thanks for the update
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I'll look forward too this upgrade also for my S2 !
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Just completed upgrade. Required fitting for SA and reset. DA was a bit more gritty than factory disconnector but a bit of filing smoothed that out as well. BTW im using a CGW race hammer so ymmv. Best upgrade to my shadow 2.
Thanks CGW.
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Just completed upgrade. Required fitting for SA and reset. DA was a bit more gritty than factory disconnector but a bit of filing smoothed that out as well. BTW im using a CGW race hammer so ymmv. Best upgrade to my shadow 2.
Thanks CGW.
So you just installed the new RRK for shadow 2? Where did you get the part? I didn?t see it being available in the website.
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I called CGW and was instructed to leave a note on the order screen for RRK for shadow 2. Would post an image but unsure how to.
Update to pic
(https://i.imgur.com/FEhc8Hg.jpg)
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So does this mean that...
Disco's are in production, we will have 2 new disco's.
1) Short reset and reach reduction disco sold with our 75585 Old Style stainless steel trigger as a new RRK "kit" part number
2) New S-2 disco only for short reset, "may" drop in on a few S-2'ss, but majority will require very minor fitting, will be a new part number
....is available for order?
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I don?t think so. When I called them before, they told me to specify shadow 2 so they can make the changes for the disco to fit the shadow 2 because the discos for the currently available rrks are for the the other guns. Hence the y are coming up with the shadow 2 specific disco as part of the new rrk.
They gave me two option when I called. One is two order the current rrk and let them know that the disco is for a shadow 2 and the second option is to wait for the shadow 2 specific rrk coming out after may 16.
I opted to wait but I did buy the old style 85C trigger.
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We received a production update and the new disco's should be in late this week. We hope to add them to the website Friday (5-11).
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Nice. Thanks for the info.
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Is it Friday yet 😀
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maybe they will throw it up early? :) the waiting is killing me lol!
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Can I pre-order here?
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Ha I almost called today to check too. Lol
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Just landed in Madrid,its Friday here. Where?s my trigger ??
😀😜🤪
But seroisly I want that trigger
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Any word if it's gonna release today?
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It?s going to be in the website today according to Dave.
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The good news - all the new Shadow 2 Reach Reduction parts are in!
The not so good news - we had a perfect storm today, the largest CZ-USA order we have ever placed arrived today along with a slew of other parts (the Shadow 2 RRK being one of those).
We are setting up the new Shadow 2 RRK's in our accounting system and will should add them this weekend to the website. The part number for the Shadow 2 RRK is 75850 and will sell for $88.00.
As a side note, our new Shadow 2 (non-RRK) disconnectors were part of these orders. We installed a few today in the shop and they dropped in perfectly with no fitting and the reset was as good as a hand fit disco. Some Shadow 2's may require some very minor fitting, but it will be miniscule.
All our 75800 and 758100 Shadow kits will get this new disco effective 5-14-18. This will make upgrading the S-2 much easier.
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So will the 75850 kit be a drop-in?
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I believe so. Minor fitting might be required like any other part. I bought 2 RRKs in mid April and only need the discos. My S-2 and Shadow 75 are going to be awesome-ized!
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We have the new Shadow 2 RRK/Short Reset kits added:
https://cajungunworks.com/product/75850-shadow-2-reach-reduction-kit/
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Ordered!!!
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Yep. Mine too.
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We have the new Shadow 2 RRK/Short Reset kits added:
https://cajungunworks.com/product/75850-shadow-2-reach-reduction-kit/
Thank you CGW!!!
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Which RRK for the SP01 Shadow (not Shadow 2)? This new 75810 or the old RRK-D/C?
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Ordered. Hope they still have stock when they come to mine.
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Ordered. Hope they still have stock when they come to mine.
It showed 100 in stock when I placed my order yesterday. It currently shows 88 in stock. I think you're good.
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baldrage,
The 75850 will work in the Shadow 1, but may require slightly more fitting. We have not checked the 75850 in a Shadow 1, but we will this coming week since we have some to build for customers.
We can give you an update then on how it works out.
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baldrage,
The 75850 will work in the Shadow 1, but may require slightly more fitting. We have not checked the 75850 in a Shadow 1, but we will this coming week since we have some to build for customers.
We can give you an update then on how it works out.
Copy - thanks, David! I will be standing by for your update.
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Received mine today and installed......
(https://image.ibb.co/kMv3ad/rrk.jpg)
Couple things, and I wonder if it's a matter of doing some fitting.
a) there is basically no need for an over travel adjustment screw, as any bit of it doesn't allow the hammer to fall at the end of the DA pull.
b) I tried out the included new disconnector with my SAO trigger. Like with the DA/SA trigger it cut the SA takeup to near zero which is sweet. But....we all know there is a half-cock to the hammer. With this disconnector in, there's also a '3/4' cock a little farther than half but before fully (and only when the hammer is cocked without trigger depressed), and from there there's nothing that can be done....no trigger pull or safety, but it can be fully cocked ands all works fine. Is this 'normal'?
Still haven't decided whether I want to keep it with the new RRK in DA/SA, or just go back to SAO with this disconnector in.
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Mine came in the mail today for my shadow 2. Got it installed tonight. Took about forty five minutes of hand fitting the Disco. Fit and function is perfect. The DA location of the trigger is perfect. SA take up is almost totally eliminated.
My current mods include:
CGW RRK
Reduced Power TRS
Floating trigger pin
11.5# hammer spring
Extended firing pin
Softer firing pin spring
11# recoil spring
LOK Bogie grips
Polished everything on the inside.
My question, would I see an added benefit of purchasing and installing a CGW competition hammer? I shoot uspsa production with this gun.
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Mine arrived today too.
I didn?t adjust the disconnect or at all.
The at rest DA location was a very modest improvement. Any more on the upper set screw and you lose the DA reset. I truly wish it did more for the DA rest position.
I guess there is only so much to be gained in working with the pistol?s design. Great grip shape for smaller hands but trigger reach is fubar. The kit does help some. It?s workable off the hammer half safety step.
Thinning of the disco would only make it worse right?
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Just got back from the range shooting a couple hundred rounds after installing the RRK. To me, there wasn?t a significant change from my old setup of a fitted T1 disco and modified(straightened out) recurve trigger. Since I already have the old 85C trigger which is part of the RRK, all I ordered was the? shadow specific disco. I have to do some minor fitting to enable the SA to reset properly. The static distance of the trigger relat?ive to the rear of the trigger guard between the fitted T1 and RRK disco was the same. Actually, I like the more straight profile of my modified trigger than the old 85c trigger. Difference in reset was very minor with the RRK disco having the advantage.
?
The screw hole hole for the pretravel screw doesn?t have a lot of material for the screw to enable the loctite ?glue? into it to keep the pretravel screw from backing out and preventing the DA from resetting. It happened to me a few times earlier even with the loctite curing for 24 hours. The trigger area where the pretravel screw is located at is very thin. I wish it was a little bit thicker so there will be more threads for the pretravel screw to ?bite? into. There?s only about two threads contacting the screw itself. I wish that area is as thick as the area where ?the pretravel screw is on SA triggers.
Old 85c trigger on the left, my modified recurve trigger on the right side.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/vrb2ig893/7_DA78_CA8-_F1_AD-4897-92_D3-434_B17_C7_B53_D.jpg)
I removed the old style 85c trigger and reinstalled my modified trigger. I?ll be heating and straightening out the old style 85C trigger to have the same curve or profile like the SA curved strait trigger. It just feel better on my trigger finger. My modified trigger?s static location is 2mm more towards the rear compared to the old style 85C because of the different curve/profile.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/in5i5s3cn/7_ECF0_A69-_F5_A2-4_BFA-_A874-3_CCB8_B48_C4_AB.jpg)
Trigger pull weights after installing the RRK disco.
DA
(https://s5.postimg.cc/mayyc2d2v/FF57_FC79-_C0_B0-4_E20-8668-_B0967_CB2750_C.jpg)
SA
(https://s5.postimg.cc/y02y01brb/2_B5_D7989-_CD60-4651-9_B67-98_A6_E2_EEB34_C.jpg)
I'm using an 11.5# black CGW main spring with 10# recoil spring.?
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Just got back from the range shooting a couple hundred rounds after installing the RRK. To me, there wasn?t a significant change from my old setup of a fitted T1 disco and modified(straightened out) recurve trigger. Since I already have the old 85C trigger which is part of the RRK, all I ordered was the? shadow specific disco. I have to do some minor fitting to enable the SA to reset properly. The static distance of the trigger relat?ive to the rear of the trigger guard between the fitted T1 and RRK disco was the same. Actually, I like the more straight profile of my modified trigger than the old 85c trigger. Difference in reset was very minor with the RRK disco having the advantage.
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The screw hole hole for the pretravel screw doesn?t have a lot of material for the screw to enable the loctite ?glue? into it to keep the pretravel screw from backing out and preventing the DA from resetting. It happened to me a few times earlier even with the loctite curing for 24 hours. The trigger area where the pretravel screw is located at is very thin. I wish it was a little bit thicker so there will be more threads for the pretravel screw to ?bite? into. There?s only about two threads contacting the screw itself. I wish that area is as thick as the area where ?the pretravel screw is on SA triggers.
Old 85c trigger on the left, my modified recurve trigger on the right side.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/vrb2ig893/7_DA78_CA8-_F1_AD-4897-92_D3-434_B17_C7_B53_D.jpg)
I removed the old style 85c trigger and reinstalled my modified trigger. I?ll be heating and straightening out the old style 85C trigger to have the same curve or profile like the SA curved strait trigger. It just feel better on my trigger finger. My modified trigger?s static location is 2mm more towards the rear compared to the old style 85C because of the different curve/profile.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/in5i5s3cn/7_ECF0_A69-_F5_A2-4_BFA-_A874-3_CCB8_B48_C4_AB.jpg)
Trigger pull weights after installing the RRK disco.
DA
(https://s5.postimg.cc/mayyc2d2v/FF57_FC79-_C0_B0-4_E20-8668-_B0967_CB2750_C.jpg)
SA
(https://s5.postimg.cc/y02y01brb/2_B5_D7989-_CD60-4651-9_B67-98_A6_E2_EEB34_C.jpg)
I'm using an 11.5# black CGW main spring with 10# recoil spring.?
Thx for the report. Those trigger pull weights are money btw
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Anybody have a before and after photo to compare the difference?
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Anybody have a before and after photo to compare the difference?
This before/after photo overlay was provided by toddm from BE. He did a nice job with this
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180518/5057700db4f166a8c1194bbbc7a540a1.jpg)
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I wish I had that kind of luck with my kit! Haven't seen the result even with different triggers installed.
I may put in the T1 disco kit and let the screws do the talking with the supplied trigger.
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Just got back from the range shooting a couple hundred rounds after installing the RRK. To me, there wasn?t a significant change from my old setup of a fitted T1 disco and modified(straightened out) recurve trigger. Since I already have the old 85C trigger which is part of the RRK, all I ordered was the? shadow specific disco. I have to do some minor fitting to enable the SA to reset properly. The static distance of the trigger relat?ive to the rear of the trigger guard between the fitted T1 and RRK disco was the same. Actually, I like the more straight profile of my modified trigger than the old 85c trigger. Difference in reset was very minor with the RRK disco having the advantage.
?
The screw hole hole for the pretravel screw doesn?t have a lot of material for the screw to enable the loctite ?glue? into it to keep the pretravel screw from backing out and preventing the DA from resetting. It happened to me a few times earlier even with the loctite curing for 24 hours. The trigger area where the pretravel screw is located at is very thin. I wish it was a little bit thicker so there will be more threads for the pretravel screw to ?bite? into. There?s only about two threads contacting the screw itself. I wish that area is as thick as the area where ?the pretravel screw is on SA triggers.
Old 85c trigger on the left, my modified recurve trigger on the right side.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/vrb2ig893/7_DA78_CA8-_F1_AD-4897-92_D3-434_B17_C7_B53_D.jpg)
I removed the old style 85c trigger and reinstalled my modified trigger. I?ll be heating and straightening out the old style 85C trigger to have the same curve or profile like the SA curved strait trigger. It just feel better on my trigger finger. My modified trigger?s static location is 2mm more towards the rear compared to the old style 85C because of the different curve/profile.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/in5i5s3cn/7_ECF0_A69-_F5_A2-4_BFA-_A874-3_CCB8_B48_C4_AB.jpg)
Trigger pull weights after installing the RRK disco.
DA
(https://s5.postimg.cc/mayyc2d2v/FF57_FC79-_C0_B0-4_E20-8668-_B0967_CB2750_C.jpg)
SA
(https://s5.postimg.cc/y02y01brb/2_B5_D7989-_CD60-4651-9_B67-98_A6_E2_EEB34_C.jpg)
I'm using an 11.5# black CGW main spring with 10# recoil spring.?
Concerning the top set screw, that?s a problem. If you really are sure of where you want it, I wonder if you can tack the back of the set screw in there with a tiny amount of silver solder. If ever you needed to get it back out, just heat it up while using pliers to hold the Allen and back it out. In theory...
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I finally figured out the setscrew dilemma. Since I have a bunch of those little set screws form my rc trucks parts bin, I look for an m3 x 4 and cut down the length to about 3mm so the trigger return spring end ?rests? on the set screw preventing it from moving. I also put red loctite on it. If I ever I have to remove it, all I have to do is heat it up with my soldering iron to loosen the grip of the red loctite.
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I'm also going to try a T1 Disco in my Shadow 2, as over the last few days I've been able to do some comparisons and the T1's lug is farther up than the new Shadow 2's RRK Disco, and I don't particularly like how way far back the trigger breaks with the new Shadow 2 RRK disco.
I actually put the original Shadow 2 disco in a SP01/Shadow 1 hybrid that I have, and it's not bad. Don't mind the takeup that much, but I'm good with where the trigger breaks in SA, as it's not completely back against the 'rear wall'.
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I?m going to the range again tomorrow and do some more testing with my modified trigger. I removed the RRK disco and installed the T1 disco for Dry Fire practice earlier today and I like it better compared to the RRK disco. I really like this setup. I ordered the RRK disco thinking I could gain more reach reduction compared to what I already had but I didn?t. Oh well.
From my observation and testing, the RRK kit is just a trigger with a pretravel screw to push back the trigger?s static location towards the rear paired with a disco with a longer hook. I think the longer hook allows the trigger?s location to be push back to the rear while still allowing it to reset. I compared the RRK disco to the T1 disco and the RRK hook is longer by about 1-2 mm.
By the way, the recurve trigger has a thicker surface area where I drilled and tapped the pretravel screw compared to the old style 85C trigger. Now I know why the pretravel screw never moved on my modified trigger compared to the old style 85C.
I might be selling the RRK disco after tomorrow.
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The location of the 'lug' that the DA pull engages is also a little farther back on the RRK disco than the T1, which I assume also contributes to the DA pull engaging a bit farther back. But what this also seems to do is bring the DA 'letoff' as well as the SA break farther back. As I mentioned before, the over travel screw with the RRK disco is virtually useless as any bit of it out keeps the trigger from breaking. This was definitely too far back for my comfort.
With a T1 disco, hopefully it will give me back that more 'forward' break point, but then I'll see how much of the takeup on the DA I can reduce with the pre travel screw. As I noted in another thread, I tried filing a little bevel on a T1 disco since it wasn't fully releasing the hammer in my 'Shadow-ized' SP01 in SA, but then I went too far and it won't engage fully in DA now, so I'm getting a few new ones and taking things a lot slower. In the meantime, I actually like the Shadow 2's original disco in my SP-01. Once I try out the T1 in the Shadow 2, I'll see which one I'll use for Production in USPSA.
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George, Mo,
Interesting you guys are messing around with the T1 disco. I've been thinking about the T1 for my Shadow 2. I have 2 T1s here and will install in the gun and see how it feels. I made a complete hammer group so I could keep the stock hammer, disco, and strut intact. The SS shiny hammer from CGW looks real cool on the S2. Also have the adjustable sear in both the shadows. Might try the S2 disco in the 75 shadow.
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George, Mo,
Interesting you guys are messing around with the T1 disco. I've been thinking about the T1 for my Shadow 2. I have 2 T1s here and will install in the gun and see how it feels. I made a complete hammer group so I could keep the stock hammer, disco, and strut intact. The SS shiny hammer from CGW looks real cool on the S2. Also have the adjustable sear in both the shadows. Might try the S2 disco in the 75 shadow.
I just fitted a T3 to my SP01 Shadow and I think it?s the best thing since sliced bread. Why doesn?t that work in the shadow 2? I never looked at the shadow 2 internals
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George, Mo,
Interesting you guys are messing around with the T1 disco. I've been thinking about the T1 for my Shadow 2. I have 2 T1s here and will install in the gun and see how it feels. I made a complete hammer group so I could keep the stock hammer, disco, and strut intact. The SS shiny hammer from CGW looks real cool on the S2. Also have the adjustable sear in both the shadows. Might try the S2 disco in the 75 shadow.
I just fitted a T3 to my SP01 Shadow and I think it?s the best thing since sliced bread. Why doesn?t that work in the shadow 2? I never looked at the shadow 2 internals
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I think you?re right. Since I already messed around with the T1 and RRK disco, I found the RRK disco didnt give me more reduction from what I already attained by using a modified trigger with the T1.
Guys, I made the T1 work in reducing the DA reach by modifying a recurve trigger. Like I said in my previous post, what it is is just a trigger with a oretravel screw to move back the trigger?s static location. Somebody need to produce a trigger with way less curve and more material where the pretravel screw hole is located. I know the recurve trigger I straightened out is thicker in that area. What also compounded and limited us with the choice of triggers is the fact that CZ decided to make the shdow2 trigger guard flatter compared to the rounder profile of the Sp01 or TSO for that matter.
Mo, that?s the same thing I noticed on the trigger. The lug is farther back. From an engineering standpoint, I think it was moved back to allow for altering the static location of the trigger along with the longer hook for the SA. The break has moved back towards the rear by about 2-3mm. That?s the main reason I removed the overtravel screw because like you said, it?s useless and it is.
Wxguy,
Go slow when fitting your T1 disco. I used a dermal with diamond bit then 400, 1000 and then polished it with Mother?s mag polish. To let it drop in DA without altering the timing, take off a little bit from the nose, for SA a little bit on the hook.
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a) there is basically no need for an over travel adjustment screw, as any bit of it doesn't allow the hammer to fall at the end of the DA pull.
I just installed mine - It did require some minor fitting on the disconnector. And I noticed the same as described above by MoRivera: I could actually turn the post-travel screw by only a little tiny fraction, any more than that and it will not drop the hammer in DA. I'm happy with the result though: It did shorten the trigger reach and reset a bit.
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I have relatively long fingers so a full DA reach isn't as much of an issue for me, although I do like it more from the half-cock position of course. But the big thing with me is that I don't like a SA trigger that's really far back...I like long triggers on 1911's, the more forward set of aftermarket SAO triggers on my CZ's and the original 'longer' triggers on my Sigs.
George, it sounds like your 'straightening' of the curved trigger moved the pull distance back enough for you in DA, but in SA I think for me it'd be a bit too far back. That's why I like the thicker 'old style'/original OEM 85C trigger. I can deal with a long DA pull, and maybe even work at prepping the trigger to the half-cock position. But with the Shadow 2's RRK disco, I was almost short-stroking both the DA pull and the SA pull...it felt like I had to apply an extra bit at the very end where my trigger finger is all scrunched up, and I can't stand that (like on a Beretta).
So I'm going to try the new trigger in my Shadow 2 with a T1 Disco. As George mentioned, not much threading for the pre travel screw so I'll have to work on that somehow. Right now I have a 'Shadow-ized' SP-01 set up well so if I can't get buy Shadow 2 the way I like it in DA/SA, then I'll leave it as a SAO and use the SP01 in Production.
I did, however, try out a CZ Custom 'Accu Shadow 2' at a plate shoot the other night. Man...that DA/SA trigger is heavenly. So I'm just contemplating sending mine in to CZ Custom for that same trigger job, but I've already sunk so much money into it!
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Well, the change is official. After shooting about 300 rounds at the range with my modified trigger and T1 disco, I like this combo better than the RRK. DA and SA breaks earlier like Mo noted and I can confirm that. Due to this, it allowed me to manipulate the trigger faster and it showed in my splits. With the RRK, I get splits of .25-.27 for a 2.45 Bill drill. With the T1 disco and my modified trigger, my splits were .21 - .22 for a 2.15 Bill drill.
Mo, you?ll like the the result of the old style 85C and T1 disco combo. I also tried it with the RRK. With either the straightened or old style 85C trigger and RRK, the location of the trigger when the DA and SA breaks are more towards the rear and I didn?t like the feel of it especially since the overtravel screw is useless. Plus, I just didn?t like the curve of the CZ triggers including the old style 85C. I wish CZ will make a DA with the profile of the trigger of the TSO. I like the curve of TSO?s trigger but the trigger pin hole location is not designed for DA.
By the way, I also grind down the old style 85C trigger because it was too thick for my feel. It has a ?hump? at the middle so I grind it down flat and thinned it out a bit. I like it flat so my trigger finger is planted squarely on the face of the trigger.
So I?ll be selling the RRK disco that I just bought and installed. I shot probably close to 500 with it.
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Tried the T1 disco in my Shadow 2 and didn't like it. The Double Action was still all the way back against the rear wall. Going to leave the Shadow 2 SAO, and use my milled TS slide in .40 on it for major. Installed a T1 in my SP01 Shadow and in that too it brought the DA break back farther than before. SA is nice and makeup nice too, but now I have a little more over travel. May go back to the Shadow 2 disco in the Shadow 1. Don't really mind the extra takeup, but probably like the earlier DA break/less over travel more.
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So.....
I gave it a good try. Was able to fit the new S2 RRK disco to how I liked it, got the DA pull nice, almost no reset in SA, and got the DA break to drop where I wanted it to. But the SA is still too far back for me. It's a nice trigger, and firing dry the reach feels okay even though short. But as with many things, how something feels dry-firing may be very different live-fire.
With the pistol buried deep in my hand while firing, the trigger reach is just too short, almost past my first knuckle (I have relatively large hands, not meaty but longish fingers). This is with the original Shadow 2 trigger (which I believe is the CZ 'Shadowline' trigger), the CGW 'Old Style' 85C trigger that came with the RRK kit, and an extra 'Original' 85C trigger which is the thickest of the bunch. Even the latter was just a bit too short.
(https://image.ibb.co/ejN7F8/IMG_1584.jpg)
I think it has to do with the shape of the backstrap and its angled 'hump', as opposed to the more even arch like on the SP01/Shadow 1 and my Sigs.
So even though I was hoping to get my Shadow 2 back into USPSA Production (which is pretty much what the gun was designed for), I'm keeping it SAO. I just like the pistol better that way, I shoot it better that way, and I have a milled TS slide in .450 the can work on the S2 frame if I want to go Limited Major. So again, gave it the ol' college try, but I'm sticking with SAO.
(https://image.ibb.co/dAb1a8/IMG_1585.jpg)
So I'll be shooting my Shadow 1 in Production, which I've been shooting quite well with in IDPA. That gun is still more stable in DA, and the length of pull in SA is more to my liking.
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hi!
question for MoRivera,
do you know which trigger would be the best if i like DA as far back as possible, and SA as forward as possible?
cz97 aka thick trigger with pre travel and over travel screws?
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hi!
question for MoRivera,
do you know which trigger would be the best if i like DA as far back as possible, and SA as forward as possible?
cz97 aka thick trigger with pre travel and over travel screws?
I would probably think the the thick CZ97 trigger or an original 85C trigger with short reset set screws would be the way to go.
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thanks, i'll try with a cz 97 for the beginning because i dont have old 85c avaliable in EU.
cheers