The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ85, 85B, & 85 Combat => Topic started by: Underwhere on June 09, 2018, 10:27:31 AM
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I'm a bit new to the 85.
I thought only Combats have adjustable sights and adjustable triggers.
A local shop has one that does not show a Combat roll mark but has the adjustable sight and overtravel and pretravel trigger.
Used for $500.
Its also missing the right side slide stop lever. (why do so many of these go missing)
Thoughts?
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pictures are worth a 1000 words.
i can guess until im buried.
you have no idea on who and what was done to a used gun. But again, a picture....
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pictures are worth a 1000 words.
i can guess until im buried.
you have no idea on who and what was done to a used gun. But again, a picture....
I ended up with this one. Not the best price at $550 plus 45 shipping.
I'm hoping other than the right side slide stop lever it's in good shape.
I'm seeing it's definitely a pre-b. Definitely has the factory adjustable sight.
Squared trigger guard
1994 production
Is around the transitional 75 pre-B's(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/90f9f21797c37a1b9262c56dfee25616.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/8835c0526ea5b8137872bfd98cc38c7b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/9de72ee07ca3e9b6de185f39968a17c7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/87f66231dfb0f6ead8d254cd1b5638f3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/aa0c8c1776dc0b55ab44d8edcd656bfa.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/a8e9aafd43c7f96a84758fdf5b03a77b.jpg)
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It has a combat trigger as well. The rear sight cut looks custom to me. Isn't the standard 85c cut flat behind the dovetail?
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It has a combat trigger as well. The rear sight cut looks custom to me. Isn't the standard 85c cut flat behind the dovetail?
Is that slide stop factory?
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It has a combat trigger as well. The rear sight cut looks custom to me. Isn't the standard 85c cut flat behind the dovetail?
Is that slide stop factory?
I just looked it up in CZ-USA discontinued models. The rear sight cut is normal, looks like the same slide stop too. Looks like yours is just missing the roll mark. Well that, and it has a pre-b mag catch. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/c549d8a72d4cdd8774759e19f6798181.jpg)
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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It has a combat trigger as well. The rear sight cut looks custom to me. Isn't the standard 85c cut flat behind the dovetail?
Is that slide stop factory?
I just looked it up in CZ-USA discontinued models. The rear sight cut is normal, looks like the same slide stop too. Looks like yours is just missing the roll mark. Well that, and it has a pre-b mag catch. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180609/c549d8a72d4cdd8774759e19f6798181.jpg)
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Gotta love CZ. It seems like those guys just mix and match anything.
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No kidding! Whatever it takes to ship an order!
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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No kidding! Whatever it takes to ship an order!
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
I'll just call this one an 85 pre-b combat pre-combat.
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Pre-bcbc.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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Looks to be in fine shape! Congrats.
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After more research it looks like the pre-b 85's have a tendency to break th right side slide stop lever.
New ones are a different design and require a larger diameter hole in the frame.
I guess thats on the list of things to do. (buy a new slide stop and figure out how to enlarge the hole)
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Per the Pazdera book, the early CZ 85s came as Standard, Lux and Combat. The roll mark didn?t distinguish which was which model but there were distinct features. The latter two had adjustable rear sights (an older design). The Lux had the rounded trigger guard until 1989; the Combat also had an adjustable trigger. Looks like your 1994 came at the time of transition to just the Combat and 85 B models hence the lack of ?Combat? and a slightly different roll marking order....also, the newer adjustable rear sights. Nice pick up.
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Per the Pazdera book, the early CZ 85s came as Standard, Lux and Combat. The roll mark didn?t distinguish which was which model but there were distinct features. The latter two had adjustable rear sights (an older design). The Lux had the rounded trigger guard until 1989; the Combat also had an adjustable trigger. Looks like your 1994 came at the time of transition to just the Combat and 85 B models hence the lack of ?Combat? and a slightly different roll marking order....also, the newer adjustable rear sights. Nice pick up.
Thanks for that info
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You can probably buy a replacement right side slide stop from CZ USA. I bought one a few months back for a project (converted a CZ75 Compact to a CZ85 clone Compact).
There's a diameter difference between the early and later CZ 85 slide stop (right side), so call them first to see if they can help with the dating of your pistol to determine if you need the later model diameter or the early model (smaller and prone to breaking, they said).
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You can probably buy a replacement right side slide stop from CZ USA. I bought one a few months back for a project (converted a CZ75 Compact to a CZ85 clone Compact).
There's a diameter difference between the early and later CZ 85 slide stop (right side), so call them first to see if they can help with the dating of your pistol to determine if you need the later model diameter or the early model (smaller and prone to breaking, they said).
I probably jumped the gun. I ordered one.
I read the older ones were no longer in production so I figured I would need to modify for the larger diameter.
How did you do yours?
I was thinking of using a stepped drill bit. 3/16 to 1/4
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When I drilled the frame on the Compact I used a 1/4" drill bit. The OD of the new style slide release was (let me check my planning file) - 0.250" measured by my calipers.
I drilled the hole (only has to be through the outside of the frame - frame is "double walled" on that side. The inside section is smaller, to fit the diameter of the slide stop shaft (which fits inside the right side slide stop) so only the outside section needs to be drilled to the slide stop diameter with a drill and 1/4" drill bit. That made it the size of the slide stop, which is too small as you have to have some clearance for the slide stop to insert/pivot up/down a small amount to operate as designed. I used a Dremel and small diameter "diamond" cutter shaft to slightly open the drilled hole. I just ran it round and round the inside of the hole, stopping every little bit to try to insert the right side slide stop lever until it inserted/pivoted. Then I oiled the sides of the hole, inserted the right side slide stop and then inserted the left side slide stop to confirm it worked as intended. Or at least pivoted properly when either side was used. Then I put the slide/barrel/spring on and again checked for proper functioning with an empty mag, removed the mag. released the slide, repeated several times. Never had any issues.
Not the machinists way of doing it, but it worked for me.
When you get the right side slide release you'll see how it's slotted to allow the retention spring to hole it and the left side slide release in place.
I really love those CZ85's. Just have the Pre B and the converted CZ75 Compact, but they are sweet and neat.
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When I drilled the frame on the Compact I used a 1/4" drill bit. The OD of the new style slide release was (let me check my planning file) - 0.250" measured by my calipers.
I drilled the hole (only has to be through the outside of the frame - frame is "double walled" on that side. The inside section is smaller, to fit the diameter of the slide stop shaft (which fits inside the right side slide stop) so only the outside section needs to be drilled to the slide stop diameter with a drill and 1/4" drill bit. That made it the size of the slide stop, which is too small as you have to have some clearance for the slide stop to insert/pivot up/down a small amount to operate as designed. I used a Dremel and small diameter "diamond" cutter shaft to slightly open the drilled hole. I just ran it round and round the inside of the hole, stopping every little bit to try to insert the right side slide stop lever until it inserted/pivoted. Then I oiled the sides of the hole, inserted the right side slide stop and then inserted the left side slide stop to confirm it worked as intended. Or at least pivoted properly when either side was used. Then I put the slide/barrel/spring on and again checked for proper functioning with an empty mag, removed the mag. released the slide, repeated several times. Never had any issues.
Not the machinists way of doing it, but it worked for me.
When you get the right side slide release you'll see how it's slotted to allow the retention spring to hole it and the left side slide release in place.
I really love those CZ85's. Just have the Pre B and the converted CZ75 Compact, but they are sweet and neat.
OK great. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm planning it out in my head. Shouldn't be a problem.
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The CZ75 Compact frame. You can see the right side frame rail. Just to the left of it is the spring that holds the two slide stops in place (same spring as for the single/left side slide release, it works for both sides due to the design of the right side slide release as you'll see when you get it.) Just to the left of the spring is a wider section of the frame that supports the left side slide release shaft. It only needs to be drilled deep enough to let the right side slide stop fully insert into the frame. Don't drill it all the way through. You can test it with the right side slide stop shaft/tube.
Just go slow with the opening up of the right side slide stop hole and do it evenly while checking for free insertion/pivoting of the right side slide stop lever. You want that hole to be smooth/free of burrs. The slide stop will cover it up. I did not try to refinish (as in cold blue) that bare metal. I use plenty of oil on my guns (just call me a compulsive over oiler). The gun will get rid of the excess and I'm not someone who worries about getting a little gun oil on me when handling/shooting guns.
One more thing. That right side slide stop comes out easy. You just rotate it around till the spring is out of the slot and it pulls right out. It is tougher to insert. The spring is on the left side slide stop shaft and is in the way of the right side slide stop "tube" as it inserts into the slide around the left side slide stop shaft. It'll go, but it doesn't just "slip in".
(https://i.imgur.com/oZwaTVWl.jpg?1)
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The CZ75 Compact frame. You can see the right side frame rail. Just to the left of it is the spring that holds the two slide stops in place (same spring as for the single/left side slide release, it works for both sides due to the design of the right side slide release as you'll see when you get it.) Just to the left of the spring is a wider section of the frame that supports the left side slide release shaft. It only needs to be drilled deep enough to let the right side slide stop fully insert into the frame. Don't drill it all the way through. You can test it with the right side slide stop shaft/tube.
Just go slow with the opening up of the right side slide stop hole and do it evenly while checking for free insertion/pivoting of the right side slide stop lever. You want that hole to be smooth/free of burrs. The slide stop will cover it up. I did not try to refinish (as in cold blue) that bare metal. I use plenty of oil on my guns (just call me a compulsive over oiler). The gun will get rid of the excess and I'm not someone who worries about getting a little gun oil on me when handling/shooting guns.
One more thing. That right side slide stop comes out easy. You just rotate it around till the spring is out of the slot and it pulls right out. It is tougher to insert. The spring is on the left side slide stop shaft and is in the way of the right side slide stop "tube" as it inserts into the slide around the left side slide stop shaft. It'll go, but it doesn't just "slip in".
(https://i.imgur.com/oZwaTVWl.jpg?1)
Got it. Makes sense.
Did you drill this with the gun in a vice and you holding a drill?
Drill press?
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Yes, drill press. I bought one of those fancy drill press vises with the movement capability and then found it would not fit on my drill press (table). The darn thing is so big I don't have room to clear the drill bit without cutting the drill bits off. I ended up spending a lot of time with padded end C-clamps and a level getting the frame "just right" before drilling the holes (drilled out the hole in the right side of the frame for the ambidextrous safety - right side, too).
At the time it seemed "easy". Afterwards I got to thinking I may have had a guardian angel looking over my shoulder. I don't think I'll do it again. The safety and the sear cage I mean. The slide release was simple/easy but the right side safety and drilling into the side of the sear cage (like the frame for the slide release - not all the way through, but far enough for the right side safety to seat flat on the frame) could have been a problem, or two.
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Yes, drill press. I bought one of those fancy drill press vises with the movement capability and then found it would not fit on my drill press (table). The darn thing is so big I don't have room to clear the drill bit without cutting the drill bits off. I ended up spending a lot of time with padded end C-clamps and a level getting the frame "just right" before drilling the holes (drilled out the hole in the right side of the frame for the ambidextrous safety - right side, too).
At the time it seemed "easy". Afterwards I got to thinking I may have had a guardian angel looking over my shoulder. I don't think I'll do it again. The safety and the sear cage I mean. The slide release was simple/easy but the right side safety and drilling into the side of the sear cage (like the frame for the slide release - not all the way through, but far enough for the right side safety to seat flat on the frame) could have been a problem, or two.
Maybe I should buy a drill press.
Always wanted one.
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Mine came from Harbor Freight. Bench top unit. No issues with it so far, but it's not heavily used. There's a floor stand drill press from Harbor Freight in one of my dad's sheds that has been there for almost 30 years. No issues with it either. It's been used a lot. Come to think of it, had I taken that Compact and that fancy vise home, the vise would have mounted on that "table" under that drill press just fine.
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Mine came from Harbor Freight. Bench top unit. No issues with it so far, but it's not heavily used. There's a floor stand drill press from Harbor Freight in one of my dad's sheds that has been there for almost 30 years. No issues with it either. It's been used a lot. Come to think of it, had I taken that Compact and that fancy vise home, the vise would have mounted on that "table" under that drill press just fine.
Here's what I'm thinking of doing.
1. Buy an aluminum rod with an inner diameter of 3/16 (fits my 3/16 stepped drill bit)
2. Toss this rod in a drill and shave material off until the outer diameter fits the hole in the gun
3. Cut the rod so that it is long enough to fit through both sides of the gun
4. Use this rod as a very long pilot bushing for my stepped drill bit.
Am alternative to that is to take a 22 spent case as someone had mentioned being a good fit for the hole... Using that as a bushing if the stars aligned and everything was perfectly sized.
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I received the gun today. The broken shaft of the previous lever was still in the gun.
Strange thing about this particular gun. It doesn't want to take down very easily. I need to have the hammer all the way forward against the firing pin in order for the slide to clear the sear. (I think that's the problem)
Nevertheless it's in good shape on the outside.
I didn't get this gun for a great deal.
After transfer fee it was $615 and I got the right side slide stop lever shipped to me for $44. So all-in for $659 for a 14 year old gun.
But it's a Pre-B! I feel like that really only makes a difference if you modify it. The trigger isn't great at the moment.
Issues or notables.
1. Broken right slide stop lever (missing). Fixed it.
2. The trigger bar support spring on one side was not riding in the trigger bar. Fixed it.
3. The sight was drifted too far to the left. I centered it.
4. The barrel is very loose in the bushing. I may need to get the CGW 10X or perhaps a new barrel. I don't even know how to tell if that's necessary.
5. The trigger does not have pre-travel threading. It is also missing the overtravel set screw
6. The right side safety red paint looks like it was done by a 3 year old. Who misses a hole like that?
7. The previous owner scratched the finish a tiny bit where the right side lever should be. Not a big deal.
I drilled the hole for the right side lever without a drill press. You do need to go past the slide stop lever spring and into the "flat" part of the frame because the shaft of the right-side lever does go in that far.
I turned out as perfect as I could have imagined. I don't want to do a writeup on it. I don't think other people would have the same luck as me. I used a combination of stepped drill bit and normal drill bit. No pilot. No drill press.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180615/dd4fcf8216b034ff8282a5f664355868.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180615/fe6d14ad2893d10999a0fcd22e3a2a80.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180615/530afd8924523aa557bf4915221e577f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180615/055efa382af6faa1769a2e41d10b184d.jpg)
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With that pinned front sight replacement of the bushing (or the sight) shouldn't be a big deal. Mine was old enough (the Pre B CZ85) that it had the older staked in front sight that goes through the top of the barrel bushing. I read (here I think) that the old bushings are screwed into the
barrel slide??? If so, I guess the front sight tenon helps keep them from unscrewing until crud/corrosion locks them into place. I didn't try to remove mine. couldn't think of a way to modify one of the CGW bushings to have that same hole/dimple inside.
Yours looks nice. The trigger on mine isn't as nice as the triggers on some of the pistols I've worked on and/or put CGW parts in, but it's great for an old combat/LE pistol abused for many years in a foreign country. Think of the places it's been and the things "it's" seen.
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With that pinned front sight replacement of the bushing (or the sight) shouldn't be a big deal. Mine was old enough (the Pre B CZ85) that it had the older staked in front sight that goes through the top of the barrel bushing. I read (here I think) that the old bushings are screwed into the barrel??? If so, I guess the front sight tenon helps keep them from unscrewing until crud/corrosion locks them into place. I didn't try to remove mine. couldn't think of a way to modify one of the CGW bushings to have that same hole/dimple inside.
Yours looks nice. The trigger on mine isn't as nice as the triggers on some of the pistols I've worked on and/or put CGW parts in, but it's great for an old combat/LE pistol abused for many years in a foreign country. Think of the places it's been and the things "it's" seen.
Yeah I always look for the newer pinned front sight on all my CZ's. I don't want to send out for dovetail. I like to do all the work myself. Same with the bushing stuff. I would just prefer to be able to do it at home.
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I bought a similar CZ85 some time ago with D42xx serial. After upgrades its a nice gun to shoot, but I haven't found a recipe to shoot it accurately at 25m - even after installing CGW 10X bushing. My reloads (coated) are 1.5-2" groups benched from my other guns, but 5" groups from CZ85. Factory FMJ ammo is like 3" with a wildly different POI. It was someone's service pistol with noticeable holster wear yet very good on inside.
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2016_11/IMG_20161119_142415.thumb.jpg.c8922ff00c56a6165ec5b9c075a023d7.jpg)
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2016_11/IMG_20161119_141734.thumb.jpg.ecb7702dd56879bd49bc9e282a3439f0.jpg)
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2016_11/IMG_20161119_141853.thumb.jpg.5106e8b1bbd42e148b4dfe47247063ef.jpg)
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Mine is pretty, now, but it doesn't shoot as good as some of my other CZ's. Just the way it is. Good enough though.
Mine also has the spur hammer. I like it enough that when I modified the CZ75 Compact to look like a CZ85 I added the spur hammer to it, too.
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I bought a similar CZ85 some time ago with D42xx serial. After upgrades its a nice gun to shoot, but I haven't found a recipe to shoot it accurately at 25m - even after installing CGW 10X bushing. My reloads (coated) are 1.5-2" groups benched from my other guns, but 5" groups from CZ85. Factory FMJ ammo is like 3" with a wildly different POI. It was someone's service pistol with noticeable holster wear yet very good on inside.
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2016_11/IMG_20161119_142415.thumb.jpg.c8922ff00c56a6165ec5b9c075a023d7.jpg)
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2016_11/IMG_20161119_141734.thumb.jpg.ecb7702dd56879bd49bc9e282a3439f0.jpg)
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2016_11/IMG_20161119_141853.thumb.jpg.5106e8b1bbd42e148b4dfe47247063ef.jpg)
Mine has the loosest barrel fitment of all my CZ's.
I'm trying to resist the urge to modify this gun more than just fixing the right side slide release. I have been making more of a conscious effort to preserve what is old and rare.
But maybe I do need a 10x bushing...
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Looks to me like someone just put an adjustable MecGar rear sight on a CZ-85. They used to be available. I had about half-dozen of the sights for pre-B guns I bought in 93-94 timeframe but recently sold them on eBay. I am 99% sure MecGar made the adjustable sights of that style for CZ.