The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: SIGnoramus on August 23, 2018, 07:30:31 PM
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How do the hammer-fired CZ P-series pistols compare to GLOCK in regard to simplicity of design (ease of repair/upgrades) and robustness/reliability? I have owned six GLOCKs and a couple of CZs, but I haven't had the pleasure of owning, or even shooting, a P-series pistol. I realize there will be some CZ bias here, but I know some of you guys have GLOCKs as well.
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I do not think any pistol has proven to be more reliable/robust/durable than the Glock 17.
And that includes the P-Series CZ (and H&K).
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The P series is as simple as you will find in a hammer fired gun but I suppose glocks are simpler for most to work on. As to reliability. Who knows.My P-07 is coming up on 10,000 rounds and never broken anything,no issues.
I won't own a striker fired anything but I have friends who own glocks and they are not the toughest most reliable gun that the die hards claim them to be.These guys have had plenty their share of issues with glocks and many have made the trip back to the factory for surgery for various issues. They break just like any gun breaks.
If you really think in the real world you can run a gun any gun over with a semi and have it be 100% reliable after that give it a try sometime.
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I have had three Glocks fail either in my hand or right in front of me. However, I have been issued and carried Glock 19 for 16 years now, and I have seen that they are generally well designed, robust accurate and dependable sidearms - they just don't FIT me worth a darn! The Glock turned me off of all striker fired pistols until I laid hands on my P-10C. Incidentally I qualify Expert or Distinguished Expert with the G-19 every year.
The P-07/09 have not been out and widely issued to garner the rep that Glock has over the years. I think they are as well built, reliable and accurate as any Glock, if not more so, but like you said, my bias is showing. The SP-01 Phantom has been general issue in the Czech military for some years now, and while I haven't heard any negatives, I haven't really looked nor have any been publicized by the Czechs.
In the long run I expect the P series pistols will prove to be as good as if not better than the Glock. Personally,. I already feel my P-10C will do everything a Glock 19 can do, better for me, and with style. ;) Again, personal opinion, not backed by enough real world hard data yet to be definitive.
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I own a glock (that lives in the safe - patterns are for shotguns, not handguns) and I've never gone farther than field stripping it for cleaning after a range session.
I own three P series CZ's.
I don't know what tools are required for Glocks or how hard it is to take one apart (not field stripping, but APART).
I can take the ejector, sear, trigger, trigger bar, hammer w/strut, hammer spring, safeties out of my P series guns without tools. Just push/shove/pull and the parts come out. Same for reinstalling them.
I guess I do need a punch/hammer to remove the extractor?? I don't know, I've not taken one out yet.
For what it's worth, my Glock had more malfunctions than either of my XDMs. Less than either of my M&P's. The only malfunctions my P07 and P09 has had (one each) was due to my lead bullet reloads (one swelled case from bullet being cocked when seated and one failure to chamber from bullet not seated deep enough) not to breaking or feed/extraction issues with good ammo.
And the good parts - the CZ's shoot real groups, not patterns. With the factory barrels, factory sights, factory triggers, factory springs, etc. No extra money spent on the CZ for aftermarket match parts to make them shoot better. I did do some upgrading through the installation of RMRs a couple years ago, but that was to help me (can't see the sights too well these days unless I'm wearing my reading glasses).
If you like a Glock, more power to you, hope it always work out for you (not just the gun working, but the outcome of what you use it for, too.)
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
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We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
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We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
Agreed, for civilians. I carry in a duty capacity and have to carry specific holsters.
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
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We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
Agreed, for civilians. I carry in a duty capacity and have to carry specific holsters.
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No disagreement there holsters have been an issue for CZ's at times but thankfully most all of the custom shops now offer top quality leather or Kydex models for CZ pistols. Maybe Safariland and Galco will follow suit one day.I know they make some CZ holsters but the line is not very diverse.
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Then again, CZ makes so many darned good pistol models.
I have CZ 75 Compact with no rail, I have a CZ Compact with a rail. I have a P01 (compact with a rail that is the same size/shape as the compact with a rail). Then there's the P07 and P10c which are both "compacts".
Glock has lots of models, but how many are much different other than caliber? I admit, I'm not a Glock guy.
Then there is the full sized CZs, which are even more varied in size and shape than the compacts.
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I find the P-10C easier to shoot well compared to my Glock 19X VP9 and 509.
A P-07 or P-09 will always be suspect without upgrading the internals. For reliability the Triggger Return Spring needs upgrading.
To my knowledge that?s all that?s required to address a known issue.
I compare CGW P-07s to just about everything. It?s ?the perfect? carry pistol but so is my Glock 19X with Sprinco RSA and Gadget.
They are different.
I would still expect the Glock to be the more reliable platform.
Keep up your PM (Preventative Maintenance) and the differences **SHOULD** be negligible. I think.
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Safariland used to make several holsters for CZ back in the day...so did Galco. I use High Noon now so I don't really know anymore. Aftermarket stuff is out there, and some VERY nice stuff, like Cajun Gun Works, great outfit, wonderful people, incredible work.
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I appreciate everyone's input.
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Own both 9mm G 17 Gen 4 MOS and P-07's for several years.
In my somewhat limited experience comparing out-of-the-box the P-07's are near equal in terms of reliability, durability and ability to feed virtually any ammo.
But IMO the P-07 excels in accuracy, ergonomics, ambidexterity for Lefty's, and the unique Omega trigger system that allows safe carry options of SA cocked/locked or DA/SA decocked.
However, Glock's MOS Modular Optic System provides an excellent entry into the world of Red Dots with this Factory-Ready multi-plate mount for virtually all the popular RDS. I give Glock a lot of credit for being among the first to offer this option (about $50 over standard models).
Yes, CZ Custom, CGW, and shops like Primary offer CZ milling for ~$200+ (incl. 2-way shipping & ins.) for RDS. But CZUSA hasn't caught up yet with the growing popularity of RDS on handguns and the factory-ready RDS options from Glock, SIG, S&W-M&P, FNH and other major factories. Someday, RDS will be as prolific as scopes on rifles. Just Say'in
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
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We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
That isn't really the same thing. Most people in most places, can't walk into their LGS buy a CZ and walk out with the following: spare mags, aftermarket sights, grips, + two base plates or whatever else they want when they want it; however, things are moving in that direction for CZ, but it isn't even close.
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
That isn't really the same thing. Most people in most places, can't walk into their LGS buy a CZ and walk out with the following: spare mags, aftermarket sights, grips, + two base plates or whatever else they want when they want it; however, things are moving in that direction for CZ, but it isn't even close.
Hopefully it continues in the right direction
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
That isn't really the same thing. Most people in most places, can't walk into their LGS buy a CZ and walk out with the following: spare mags, aftermarket sights, grips, + two base plates or whatever else they want when they want it; however, things are moving in that direction for CZ, but it isn't even close.
If you have any gun shops around your neck of the woods that carry ALL that stuff for ALL the popular guns on the market you are lucky. You can find spare mags for just about ANYTHING including CZ's here in Northeast Ohio but no one carries sights around here for anything. The only grips to be found are for 1911's. Glock parts and accessories have to be ordered just like anything else.
There is a supplier about an 1-1/2 hrs north of me who does carry many accessories for many guns but for the cost of fuel and a more than 3 hr trip it's still cheaper to order and wait.
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
That isn't really the same thing. Most people in most places, can't walk into their LGS buy a CZ and walk out with the following: spare mags, aftermarket sights, grips, + two base plates or whatever else they want when they want it; however, things are moving in that direction for CZ, but it isn't even close.
If you have any gun shops around your neck of the woods that carry ALL that stuff for ALL the popular guns on the market you are lucky. You can find spare mags for just about ANYTHING including CZ's here in Northeast Ohio but no one carries sights around here for anything. The only grips to be found are for 1911's. Glock parts and accessories have to be ordered just like anything else.
There is a supplier about an 1-1/2 hrs north of me who does carry many accessories for many guns but for the cost of fuel and a more than 3 hr trip it's still cheaper to order and wait.
+1
I understand those who won't buy a firearm without holding, inspecting and dry-firing before buying.
However, when it comes to parts....I've gotten where I no longer drive around and waste my time and gas to see if I can find things in stores anymore. Their limited selection is a joke. And I can usually learn more about those products reading the manufacturers website, U Tube instructional videos, and the knowledgeable experience of folks on CZ Forum than the 'clerks' in those stores and pawn shops. Sorry, the good ones are few and far between.
Whereas a 30 second search on Google or www.gun.deals and I can have almost anything, even the most exotic of parts, delivered to my door within two days for usually less money. Amazon Prime is my friend!
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How do the hammer-fired CZ P-series pistols compare to GLOCK in regard to simplicity of design (ease of repair/upgrades) and robustness/reliability?
If you want to see how they disassemble/reassemble, check these videos out.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7GbOFIiTV0zywDb1XrQ2FMDvFsgCtXkF (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7GbOFIiTV0zywDb1XrQ2FMDvFsgCtXkF)
Very reliable and accurate enough for bullseye matches.
Joe
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How do the hammer-fired CZ P-series pistols compare to GLOCK in regard to simplicity of design (ease of repair/upgrades) and robustness/reliability?
If you want to see how they disassemble/reassemble, check these videos out.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7GbOFIiTV0zywDb1XrQ2FMDvFsgCtXkF (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7GbOFIiTV0zywDb1XrQ2FMDvFsgCtXkF)
Very reliable and accurate enough for bullseye matches.
Joe
Thanks for the very helpful info!
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I own a p10c a p07 a p09 and a cz 75. I also own one gen 5 glock 19 and a gen 3 glock 19. Also built a polymer 80 glock 19. Ive worked on glocks replaced connectors, triggers springs and have gotten very familiar with the platform. And one thing that I learned from a design perspective that is obvious with Glock design is simplicity. The whole gun comes apart in 3 minutes or less it has only two pins (gen 5) (3 pins gen 3) that do not need a hammer to remove. Hell you probably could use a toothpick! The parts themselves are robust not precision by any means but consistent. As for the p07 design it is also robust in design with a little more part refinement. And for a hammer fired gun the omega trigger system is about as simple as a hammer fired design can get. Remember less moving parts simpler design = better reliability for the most part. Course the design and quality of the materials used has to be sound for this rule to apply as well. The p07 is not as easy to take apart as a glock. But its built like a tank and I would stack that gun against any glock made for reliability. Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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I own a p10c a p07 a p09 and a cz 75. I also own one gen 5 glock 19 and a gen 3 glock 19. Also built a polymer 80 glock 19. Ive worked on glocks replaced connectors, triggers springs and have gotten very familiar with the platform. And one thing that I learned from a design perspective that is obvious with Glock design is simplicity. The whole gun comes apart in 3 minutes or less it has only two pins (gen 5) (3 pins gen 3) that do not need a hammer to remove. Hell you probably could use a toothpick! The parts themselves are robust not precision by any means but consistent. As for the p07 design it is also robust in design with a little more part refinement. And for a hammer fired gun the omega trigger system is about as simple as a hammer fired design can get. Remember less moving parts simpler design = better reliability for the most part. Course the design and quality of the materials used has to be sound for this rule to apply as well. The p07 is not as easy to take apart as a glock. But its built like a tank and I would stack that gun against any glock made for reliability. Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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Wild Bill, I like and agree with your assessment. I guess my question is whether you personally think the simplicity of the Glock makes up for some of the shortcomings?
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If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
That isn't really the same thing. Most people in most places, can't walk into their LGS buy a CZ and walk out with the following: spare mags, aftermarket sights, grips, + two base plates or whatever else they want when they want it; however, things are moving in that direction for CZ, but it isn't even close.
If you have any gun shops around your neck of the woods that carry ALL that stuff for ALL the popular guns on the market you are lucky. You can find spare mags for just about ANYTHING including CZ's here in Northeast Ohio but no one carries sights around here for anything. The only grips to be found are for 1911's. Glock parts and accessories have to be ordered just like anything else.
There is a supplier about an 1-1/2 hrs north of me who does carry many accessories for many guns but for the cost of fuel and a more than 3 hr trip it's still cheaper to order and wait.
+1
I understand those who won't buy a firearm without holding, inspecting and dry-firing before buying.
However, when it comes to parts....I've gotten where I no longer drive around and waste my time and gas to see if I can find things in stores anymore. Their limited selection is a joke. And I can usually learn more about those products reading the manufacturers website, U Tube instructional videos, and the knowledgeable experience of folks on CZ Forum than the 'clerks' in those stores and pawn shops. Sorry, the good ones are few and far between.
Whereas a 30 second search on Google or www.gun.deals and I can have almost anything, even the most exotic of parts, delivered to my door within two days for usually less money. Amazon Prime is my friend!
I haven't been to a LGS in Orlando (Including Acadmy) where I couldn't buy a Glock or even an M&P and could not get night sights, extra mags, base pads, talon grips, and the list goes on.
Orlando isn't the gun mecca either.
Also, I agree I don't drive around for anything anymore either; but since we are comparing aftermarket support in general, that is irrelevant. There is more support in brick and mortar as well as the internet when it comes to Glock vs. CZ.
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I own a p10c a p07 a p09 and a cz 75. I also own one gen 5 glock 19 and a gen 3 glock 19. Also built a polymer 80 glock 19. Ive worked on glocks replaced connectors, triggers springs and have gotten very familiar with the platform. And one thing that I learned from a design perspective that is obvious with Glock design is simplicity. The whole gun comes apart in 3 minutes or less it has only two pins (gen 5) (3 pins gen 3) that do not need a hammer to remove. Hell you probably could use a toothpick! The parts themselves are robust not precision by any means but consistent. As for the p07 design it is also robust in design with a little more part refinement. And for a hammer fired gun the omega trigger system is about as simple as a hammer fired design can get. Remember less moving parts simpler design = better reliability for the most part. Course the design and quality of the materials used has to be sound for this rule to apply as well. The p07 is not as easy to take apart as a glock. But its built like a tank and I would stack that gun against any glock made for reliability. Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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Wild Bill, I like and agree with your assessment. I guess my question is whether you personally think the simplicity of the Glock makes up for some of the shortcomings?
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Yes ultimately I do. The reliability of Glocks is just amazing I cannot deny it. And with arguably the strongest aftermarket support (maybe 2nd to the 1911) you can upgrade just about anything on their guns. Tailor it to however you want it. Dont like the trigger? Sights? Even ergos? Theres hundreds of companys that you can get parts from or do service for them. Most are pretty reasonable price wise.
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Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.
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I used to work for one of the largest chemical companies in the world. They constantly stressed how safe they were and how important - vital - safety was to management and every day work practices.
If someone (that worked for them) made a negative comment about their safety practices it sometimes got them fired.
Guess what? I worked for them in two different production sites. The quickest way to make a manager disappear was to have someone do something unsafe in front of them. They'd haul butt back upstairs ASAP to keep from having to deal with the issue. If you brought up problems at meetings they'd argue that the problem didn't exist.
Just because a company "says" they do something, or don't do something, has little bearing on reality. It's a corporation. The idea is to make money, at all costs. It costs money to make a quality product, to stay on top of issues and to correct problems.
Having said all that, I can say the only brand of pistols I never, ever had a malfunction with was my XDMs, both of them fed, fired, ejected every round I ever loaded in a magazine. No matter the bullet weight, shape, or how the bullet was constructed.
I have one Colt 1911, and several CZ's (then again I have more CZ's than anything else) that have never had a malfunction.
Even my old time S&W revolvers had malfunctions not long after I first got them. That was 30+ years ago when most people think they were perfect.
And I do own one Glock and you'll notice I didn't mention it had never had a malfunction (it had one, a stovepipe jam that left and empty hung up in the ejection port that kept the slide from chambering the next round.)
Guns are machines, some are better than others, that's just the way it is. Few things are PERFECT.
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No gun is as easy to upgrade as a Glock. But let?s go apples/apples. The P series is VERY easy to work on and there is good support. I believe the design is robust. Of course if you read for 10 minutes you know that the trigger spring can be an issue. I?ve also heard of rollers going bad (one thread). I?m sure plenty here have had several thousands of rounds with no problems. They are straightforward to take down. Getting the decocker spring back in CAN be tough. But generally it is a simple gun.
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Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.
I stand by my opinion. The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?
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A P10C is not a P07 or a P09.
If you don't trust a P10C (I don't, I've bought too darn many new things the first year they came out - ask me about the K5 Blazer I bought the first year the put diesels and 4 spd. automatics in them) buy a P09 or P07.
I prefer to let others do the field testing on new guns. Or I should.
A couple months back I bought one of the "new" M&P .380 Shield "EZ" pistols. Brand new, sitting on the shelf at a local gun store. Got it home, went to the S&W web site to register it for warranty purposes and found out there was already a safety recall on them. When firing the safeties would sometimes move into the SAFE position (which means it stops firing when you need it to fire).
All I had to do was type in my serial number to see if mine was under the recall. Guess what, the S&W website didn't work. My serial number (right off the side of the S&W pistol frame) was an "invalid serial number". I called the phone number on the website and the lady told me the pistol I bought needed to be sent in for modifications and e-mailed me a return authorization number.
Brand new, I didn't even get to shoot it, no ads in the gun magazines or gun forums about a safety recall on them either. When I went to the M&P forum I found out some of them had yet another problem. When you shoot the next to the last shot in the pistol and it ejected the empty it also ejected the last round from the magazine, so you get one less shot that you thought you had. People were trying to fix that themselves by modifying the follower as S&W was still unsure what to do to fix it.
Companies are companies. The idea is to make money. You don't make money by publicizing mistakes. And, sometimes, when people holler the gun ain't working right, it ain't the gun. So they have to consider that, too.
Somehow, all the testing done at the factory just never quite duplicates what the people on the street will do to a new product.
Beretta 92's with the back half of the slide breaking loose and hitting people in the face.
Sigs firing when you drop them.
Glocks throwing empties into your face.
Colts with aluminum frames that crack.
The list goes on and on.
I'm heavily invested in CZ's. After owning semi auto pistols made by Colt, Ruger, S&W, Beretta, Browning, SA, Para Ordnance, and Glock I've found the most reliable, most accurate and best fit for my hand pistols out there. CZ.
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My take on the simplicity & robustness question is that the CZ poly pistols compare quite well to the Glock pistols in reliability and possibly exceed them in robustness.
This is based on my experience with owning 3 P09s, 2 P07s (third on it?s way), 2 P10Cs, 2 G19.3s, 1 G23.3, 2 G30sf?s, 1 G23.4, 2 G20s, 1 G29, 1 G21 and 2 G27s. The thing that I really like about the Glock is its simplicity. They are remarkably simple in design. However, they do not have a lock on the top spot for reliability. In fact, Glocks have been among my most troublesome pistols exceeding in issues only by my .40 CZs. Both Glocks and .40 CZs run fine though once sorted out.
The issues I?ve had with the Glocks are mags that would not drop free, triggers that would not reset, a G19 that would not feed a full mag of ammo until broken in, stove pipes on rare occasions and lots and lots of brass to the face. Both of my G30sf?s eject brass straight to my forehead unless I?m running hot ammo. Regular target stuff dings my shooting glasses up with 60% of the ejected cases headed straight to my face.
Issues I?ve had with my poly CZs are a clocked striker on a P10C that CZ fixed quickly and a used .40 P07 not feeding ammo correctly until I refreshed all springs and added extra power mag springs. I currently have 6 CZs in .40 with a 7th being shipped this week. 3 of those where problematic but all were bought used and with the right springs run fantastic now.
Glocks finishes seem to be getting worse while CZ finishes seem to be getting better. The Glock striker channel seems to be more susceptible to debrie too as just the mention of oil near the striker on a Glock will bring people out of the woodwork to call you a moron.
I am not a fan of roll pins and it pains me to see CZ embrace them on their pistols. That is where the Glock and P07/P09 shine. You can do a pretty thorough disassembly without knocking a roll pin out like you have to do with the P10C. I sold all of my CZ clones because of the use of roll pins in places that the 75B uses solid pins.
I?m rambling now, so I?ll stop here.
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I have oiled (Mobil 1) every striker/channel/sleeve on every striker fired pistol I own (Glock, XDM, M&P) and never had an issue. Just seems to me if it moves, it ought to be lubed.
Maybe I'm just lucky.
The single failure I had on my Glock M31 was a stove pipe jam.
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Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.
I stand by my opinion. The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?
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I stand by my opinion as well. I'm certain the people at CZ and ANY other gun manufacturer out there have far better things to do than to spend time on youtube watching morons misusing their products and even less time to spend responding to them. I do not see anyone out there posting ANYTHING on their websites about updates unless there is a recall for a safety issue.
Please show were glock posted about the defective gen 4 models and people getting beaned in the face with spent casings or what they planned to do about it. Good luck finding that as it does not exist. Plenty of glock issues out there and where are the postings from glock?
I no fan of the poor quality across the board seen by many new firearms but they do have warranties and as long as the company honors the warranty in a timely fashion that's all that is required unless there is a definite safety concern.
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I have oiled (Mobil 1) every striker/channel/sleeve on every striker fired pistol I own (Glock, XDM, M&P) and never had an issue. Just seems to me if it moves, it ought to be lubed.
Maybe I'm just lucky.
The single failure I had on my Glock M31 was a stove pipe jam.
It's not recommended to oil a striker channel as it can gum up the works over time. Carbon and other debris can build up in the channel clinging to the oil. I always disassemble any new/used striker fired pistol I get and thoroughly clean the channel with a shot of non-chlorinated brake clean or alcohol. I follow the pic below for reference on oiling my Glocks. Ymmv.
(https://i.imgur.com/WIWrOLb.jpg)
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I would definitely never recommend striker/firing pin lube. Once that lube mixes with carbon it turns into slush.
We have disassembled so many Glocks and CZ's from guys who lube those areas and what we clean out is something all I can think to compare it to is sludge. There's no way they weren't having light strike issues with those guns.
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Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.
I stand by my opinion. The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?
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I stand by my opinion as well. I'm certain the people at CZ and ANY other gun manufacturer out there have far better things to do than to spend time on youtube watching morons misusing their products and even less time to spend responding to them. I do not see anyone out there posting ANYTHING on their websites about updates unless there is a recall for a safety issue.
Please show were glock posted about the defective gen 4 models and people getting beaned in the face with spent casings or what they planned to do about it. Good luck finding that as it does not exist. Plenty of glock issues out there and where are the postings from glock?
I no fan of the poor quality across the board seen by many new firearms but they do have warranties and as long as the company honors the warranty in a timely fashion that's all that is required unless there is a definite safety concern.
I dont have to show you crap. I never bought a gen 4 glock for the reasons you keep harping on. Also I dont think since other companies are not addressing their issues either doesnt make it ok for CZ to do so. I dont like any company that pulls that bs. So I will not let CZ off the hook for it either. Anyone wants to be a beta tester for CZ go for it. I wont. This company was pretty solid until the p 10 c debacle. Now their like any other greedy company using the consumers as test mules. It was wrong for Glock, Sig Sauer and yes CZ to do this. So as long as people keep justifying this bad business practice it will continue. So by all means keep making excuses for them.
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Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.
I stand by my opinion. The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?
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I stand by my opinion as well. I'm certain the people at CZ and ANY other gun manufacturer out there have far better things to do than to spend time on youtube watching morons misusing their products and even less time to spend responding to them. I do not see anyone out there posting ANYTHING on their websites about updates unless there is a recall for a safety issue.
Please show were glock posted about the defective gen 4 models and people getting beaned in the face with spent casings or what they planned to do about it. Good luck finding that as it does not exist. Plenty of glock issues out there and where are the postings from glock?
I no fan of the poor quality across the board seen by many new firearms but they do have warranties and as long as the company honors the warranty in a timely fashion that's all that is required unless there is a definite safety concern.
I dont have to show you crap. I never bought a gen 4 glock for the reasons you keep harping on. Also I dont think since other companies are not addressing their issues either doesnt make it ok for CZ to do so. I dont like any company that pulls that bs. So I will not let CZ off the hook for it either. Anyone wants to be a beta tester for CZ go for it. I wont. This company was pretty solid until the p 10 c debacle. Now their like any other greedy company using the consumers as test mules. It was wrong for Glock, Sig Sauer and yes CZ to do this. So as long as people keep justifying this bad business practice it will continue. So by all means keep making excuses for them.
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Not really interested in seeing any CRAP just for you to show where any gun company has posted a production or design change that wasn't a safety issue. I'm not making excuses for anyone or harping on anything just stating a fact and if you would read and understand what I wrote you'd understand the part about warranties and how companies honor them.
Clearly you weren't around when the P-07 Duty came out and had problems.CZ replaced many of those guns under warranty,there was no posting about anything.You sent your gun in on their dime and they honored the warranty,next came some production changes beginning with B serial numbered guns and then GEN 2 models which addressed all the earlier short comings and had some other nice improvements.nice quiet and effective.
Like I said I don't like the defects in new guns or ANY other product I buy and I DO try to avoid items I know have issues but none the less if a company honors the warranty on a given product I'm fine with that.
They are not obligated to inform everyone every time there is a design change or production update.
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I'm not recommending anyone oil their pistol anywhere they, or the maker doesn't recommend.
I'm saying I oil it. Maybe people should clean their pistols more often, instead of bragging about how many rounds they've fired without cleaning.
I guess I do a lot of things the internet says is "bad." I clean rifles with metal (OMG, even GI steel) cleaning rods. I never use jags to clean a barrel. I use motor oil for lube. I use FMJ in my 1911. Oh, and my AR15's, M1A, etc. Long list. Works for me.
I never tell someone there is only one way, I just relate my experiences.
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Yuckie.
I don't let my guns go uncleaned for very long, either. Did have oil in the striker of a pocket carry piece a while back. After dust bunnies, etc. From several days of carry, then chainsaw dust, I decided to experiment a bit before routine cleaning. Overnight at -1 deg F to chrono some shots in the cold, and NO BANG. Oil attracted dust bunnies, whatever in the striker channel and indeed was gummed up/frozen. I do believe it was during my ballistol days (now use Mobil 1). Ballistol, in my opinion "waxes" up too much for cold environments. Nonetheless, I now keep my striker channel dry!
Frredom is wonderful. Good luck to ya.
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I've read this thread, and asking which pistol is more robust, durable etc, and comparing Glock to CZ, is in general, a waste of time, I own Hk's Glocks, CZ's, Colts, S&W, Beretta's Ruger's (Yes, I've aquired a few handguns over the years) Frankly, ALL of them have their weak points, some more than others.. It's up to you if you can live with them or not. I'll have to agree with others here, that in terms of support, aftermarket support, nobody beats Glock..nobody, I'll say this as well, I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass) for a NIB Gen5, G19, and some cash, I don't know what Glock did here, but the BTF issue is gone..
In the past, I've owned/still own 4 G19's( still have two,a Gen4, and the Gen5) a Gen 4 G17, and a G21(which was traded) all but the Gen 5, and the G17, needed an Apex extractor to correct BTF, and then, on one G19, that did'nt do it.. The G21, could'nt be corrected as Apex dosen't make a extractor for them.So, if you have a G21 that throws brass at you, your choices are A. send it back to Glock, and hope for the best. B. Try to fix it yourself (good luck) or C. Sell it and drive on..All I could tell anybody is to read up on whatever pistol you're looking at, and start asking yourself some questions..How hard are mags to get? Can I get them from more than one, or two sources? How much to mags cost? How hard are parts to get? Can I get them from more than one, or two sources? What about sights? Holsters? If you have limited availabilty of parts, mags, my suggestion would be to stock up on mags, and on parts that are known to break, and maybe have a backup gun that's identical to what you carry. There is no perfect pistol..some are better than others, all have their faults, and weaknesses, it's up to you, the end user, if you can put up with these issues or not.
That said, I've been shooing my P07, and frankly I'm impressed with it, I'm going to buy a spare slide stop, as well as a couple of recoil springs, and trigger return springs, oh, and mags.. one can't have too many.. I want to put some more rounds on it, and down the road plan on buying another identical to this one (ODgreen frame, factory night sights, some basic CGW parts, extended firing pin, springs etc, nothing fancy) and keep that as a backup.. With this country as divided as it is, us gun owners are no more than a presidential election/ midterm away from having our 2Arights seriously curtailed, So think about what you want carefully, and stock up on stuff now, while it's easily available, no matter if it's for a Glock, CZ, or HK.. It's better to have extra parts, mags, and not need them, than it is to need them, and can't find any, and end up with a pistol that's a paperweight..
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I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass)
I went through this ordeal with a series 70 Colt 1911 a couple years ago. Talk about a company run by maroons that refuses to update it's products you're talking Colt hands down.
They refuse to upgrade the GI style ejector to the extended combat style and that pistol would throw nearly every round straight back at me. There's nothing like getting hit by a hot .45 case and it's even more fun when it glances off the bill of your hat and lands behind your shooting glasses.
An extended ejector properly contoured totally cured the issue.
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I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass)
I went through this ordeal with a series 70 Colt 1911 a couple years ago. Talk about a company run by maroons that refuses to update it's products you're talking Colt hands down.
They refuse to upgrade the GI style ejector to the extended combat style and that pistol would throw nearly every round straight back at me. There's nothing like getting hit by a hot .45 case and it's even more fun when it glances off the bill of your hat and lands behind your shooting glasses.
An extended ejector properly contoured totally cured the issue.
Had Apex tactical made a extractor for the G21, I might have kept it, it was bleeped accurate, and very soft shooting.. but the BTF was it's fatal flaw.. It's kinda hard to shoot the pistol, and duck the brass coming at you at the same time..down the road it went, sombody else can fool around with it...If Glock makes a Gen5, G21,and the BTF issue is resolved as it is on the Gen5 G19's, I might reconsider..
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I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass)
I went through this ordeal with a series 70 Colt 1911 a couple years ago. Talk about a company run by maroons that refuses to update it's products you're talking Colt hands down.
They refuse to upgrade the GI style ejector to the extended combat style and that pistol would throw nearly every round straight back at me. There's nothing like getting hit by a hot .45 case and it's even more fun when it glances off the bill of your hat and lands behind your shooting glasses.
An extended ejector properly contoured totally cured the issue.
Had Apex tactical made a extractor for the G21, I might have kept it, it was bleeped accurate, and very soft shooting.. but the BTF was it's fatal flaw.. It's kinda hard to shoot the pistol, and duck the brass coming at you at the same time..down the road it went, sombody else can fool around with it...If Glock makes a Gen5, G21,and the BTF issue is resolved as it is on the Gen5 G19's, I might reconsider..
The BTF issue isn?t corrected on my Gen5 G19. It doesn?t happen with every round but enough to tick me off a bit. It may be ammo related but I?m not willing to buy more expensive plinking ammo just for the Glock.
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Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.
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The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.
I stand by my opinion. The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?
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I stand by my opinion as well. I'm certain the people at CZ and ANY other gun manufacturer out there have far better things to do than to spend time on youtube watching morons misusing their products and even less time to spend responding to them. I do not see anyone out there posting ANYTHING on their websites about updates unless there is a recall for a safety issue.
Please show were glock posted about the defective gen 4 models and people getting beaned in the face with spent casings or what they planned to do about it. Good luck finding that as it does not exist. Plenty of glock issues out there and where are the postings from glock?
I no fan of the poor quality across the board seen by many new firearms but they do have warranties and as long as the company honors the warranty in a timely fashion that's all that is required unless there is a definite safety concern.
I dont have to show you crap. I never bought a gen 4 glock for the reasons you keep harping on. Also I dont think since other companies are not addressing their issues either doesnt make it ok for CZ to do so. I dont like any company that pulls that bs. So I will not let CZ off the hook for it either. Anyone wants to be a beta tester for CZ go for it. I wont. This company was pretty solid until the p 10 c debacle. Now their like any other greedy company using the consumers as test mules. It was wrong for Glock, Sig Sauer and yes CZ to do this. So as long as people keep justifying this bad business practice it will continue. So by all means keep making excuses for them.
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Not really interested in seeing any CRAP just for you to show where any gun company has posted a production or design change that wasn't a safety issue. I'm not making excuses for anyone or harping on anything just stating a fact and if you would read and understand what I wrote you'd understand the part about warranties and how companies honor them.
Clearly you weren't around when the P-07 Duty came out and had problems.CZ replaced many of those guns under warranty,there was no posting about anything.You sent your gun in on their dime and they honored the warranty,next came some production changes beginning with B serial numbered guns and then GEN 2 models which addressed all the earlier short comings and had some other nice improvements.nice quiet and effective.
Like I said I don't like the defects in new guns or ANY other product I buy and I DO try to avoid items I know have issues but none the less if a company honors the warranty on a given product I'm fine with that.
They are not obligated to inform everyone every time there is a design change or production update.
Hey if your fine with the warranty system kudos. Ill stick with my opinion thanks.
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Drive on. :)
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I know this thread has been dead for a while but I'd like to throw in my two cents.
I can't speak to Glock or any other striker fired gun for that matter but I can give my opinion on the P-series guns from CZ.
I'm a degreed Mechanical Engineer with several years experience in custom injection molding and the tooling associated with it. I know, how does this relate?? Injection molds are made up of many steel/metal parts, that have to go thousands if not hundreds of thousands of cycles without wearing out or breaking. Considerations for metal types and their respective hardness are studied and that knowledge feedback loop is a great learning tool. In other words, a mold is designed and built, then it is ran for years and during routine PM's, you can literally see what works and what doesn't, what wears and what holds up well. Over the years, standards for sliding and rotating parts are established. You all can take this with a grain of salt but I believe I have a pretty decent intuitive grasp on mechanical systems and machines in general. Plus, I do all of my own auto mechanic work, plumbing, electrical, home remodeling, woodworking, etc. Sorry, I'm rambling.......
So, today I had my P-09 apart for a good cleaning. I've had the fire control group apart more times than I can count (I have three P-series guns), thanks to Joe's videos.
The barrel/slide lockup on these guns is bullet proof. It looks to be similar to Glock (based on pictures of Glocks I've seen). My P-09 has thousands of rounds through it and the barrel and slide mating surfaces show very little wear. There is no rattle or slop in those areas and the barrel to slide mating surfaces are large and well mated, so I would say this part of the weapon is designed and built like a tank. I would guess that if you would check the hardness, you would find that there are at least 7 points difference in hardness on the Rockwell C-scale. They should be dissimilar metals as well to avoid galling but I can't attest to that. The coatings are extremely durable. The P-series barrels are the only ones I have that just never seem to get dirty or foul from a lot of shooting. Yes, they get some carbon build up but it can easily be wiped off with a little oil and a Q-tip. As I understand it, this is also a contributing factor to their accuracy (good durable lockup).
The fire control group of the Omega system is very simple. Most of the small parts are MIM. You can see the ejector pin witness marks and the gates on some of these parts. The MIM process used to get a bad rap but it has gotten a lot better in the last several years. Again, in my opinion, the simplicity of this design adds to the robustness of this platform.
Now here, I'm guessing, but the polymer frame is most likely a Nylon, Type 6, 33% glass filled. This is the same base material that Milwaukee Electric Tools for the majority of their power tool housings and casings. It has a long track record of being tough and dimensionally stable over a wide range of temperature, when molded correctly. I used to work for a molding company in Wisconsin that produced injection molds and molded parts for a lot of their tools.
To me, these three items are the main sub-systems of this, or any other hand gun platform. All three appear to be well designed/thought out and executed.
Again, this is all just MY opinion, but I would consider it a fairly well informed and somewhat educated opinion.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging or assembling a cover letter for a job application but I just wanted to try and answer the OP's original question about the robustness of these guns. Also, I only do so because I absolutely LOVE mine and try and spread this love with anyone who will listen.
I'd like to be a CZ salesman.......
Thanks, and enjoy your new CZ (I know you haven't bought one yet but after reading this, I'm sure you will!)
Winkel
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I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass)
I went through this ordeal with a series 70 Colt 1911 a couple years ago. Talk about a company run by maroons that refuses to update it's products you're talking Colt hands down.
They refuse to upgrade the GI style ejector to the extended combat style and that pistol would throw nearly every round straight back at me. There's nothing like getting hit by a hot .45 case and it's even more fun when it glances off the bill of your hat and lands behind your shooting glasses.
An extended ejector properly contoured totally cured the issue.
Had Apex tactical made a extractor for the G21, I might have kept it, it was bleeped accurate, and very soft shooting.. but the BTF was it's fatal flaw.. It's kinda hard to shoot the pistol, and duck the brass coming at you at the same time..down the road it went, sombody else can fool around with it...If Glock makes a Gen5, G21,and the BTF issue is resolved as it is on the Gen5 G19's, I might reconsider..
The BTF issue isn?t corrected on my Gen5 G19. It doesn?t happen with every round but enough to tick me off a bit. It may be ammo related but I?m not willing to buy more expensive plinking ammo just for the Glock.
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Purchase the 19X Ejector and your problem is then solved.
The latest 9mm pistols have the upgraded ejector.
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