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CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ 2075 RAMI CLUB => Topic started by: aussie57 on November 12, 2018, 11:12:02 AM

Title: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: aussie57 on November 12, 2018, 11:12:02 AM
I've had and carried this RAMI since 2006. Gun has never missed a beat until it started acting up a little time ago with rounds nose diving into the feed ramp and causing FTF's. Replaced guide rod assembly and bought a new magazine (14 rounder) from CGW. Figured either the mag spring were shot, guide rod or both. Gun has been shot a bit over 12 years. Shot it yesterday and it is still nose diving.
(https://i.imgur.com/vPHfkMT.jpg)
My reloads are Zero bullets 125 gn jacketed either JHP's or the JHP-C which is a conical shaped bullet profile as seen in the nose dive jam into the feed ramp.
Now I'm starting to wonder if the RAMI just does not like this bullet profile. Seems to shoot the Hollow Point Non-Conical bullet just fine. My other CZ's and other pistolas eat the conical shaped bullet just fine. Anyone else have issues with their RAMI and certain bullet profiles???
Pics of the JHP-C (conical) on the left compared to the regular JHP Hollow Point on the right.
(https://i.imgur.com/t16Yvta.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dOc22jj.jpg)
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: dbarn on November 12, 2018, 01:21:41 PM
My thoughts are a bullet profile that would not make a difference in another CZ, would make a difference in a Rami.

The newer Mecgar CZ magazines with their revised blue followers and improved springs would be an improvement that may help with different bullet profiles. If you have one for a compact or full size, I would give them a try. This may help to rule out magazine issues as they are the gold standard IMHO. If you try to download a black follower magazine, it's difficult to do so with every other round dipping down. Not so with the Mecgar blue follower one. You can quickly download with your thumb.

Now if we could only get Mecgar to make these in a 10 rd Rami version.  :(
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: rkwhyte2 on November 12, 2018, 02:03:42 PM
What we need is a source for the blue followers that Mecgar uses.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: dbarn on November 12, 2018, 03:20:59 PM
What we need is a source for the blue followers that Mecgar uses.

That would a nice start, though there are other subtle improvements to the mag body as well.

A larger U cut exposing more of the rear of the top bullet.
An improved bullet stop in the front.
Anti-friction coating and different more narrow angular profile near the top.

In my experience with CZ these are the best mags. YMMV


Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Walt Sherrill on November 12, 2018, 03:56:23 PM
I don't think the guide rod or recoil spring can have much effect on how a round chambers (or doesn't) UNLESS the recoil spring is really weak -- and that wouldn't cause nose-dives.  It just wouldn't have stored force to strip and fully chamber the round.  If the existing guide rod and recoil spring feed other rounds properly, you can probably discount both of those variables.

I've found that shooting 9mm hollowpoints in my FNS-40 semi-auto (when running a 9mm conversion barrel) will cause the hollowpoint to bite into the feed ramp, while hardball (round nose, no opening) feeds regularly.  (I ended up buying some 9mm mags -- even though I'd almost never shoot hollow-point ammo n the conversion barrel.)  I don't think that would be a problem if I were running the same round in a 9mm gun, rather than a converted .40.  And since it's still happening with a new mag, it's arguably not a mag spring issue, or that you might be using a mag for the wrong caliber.  (Weak mag springs will often still work if you download 3-4 rounds -- but they can't handle the extra weight of a full mag.)   

Weak springs often cause the nose of rounds to dip -- but if they do, they'll typically do it with all rounds of any shape, not just one type -- but do it less often if you  download several rounds.

It may just be bullet shape.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: aussie57 on November 12, 2018, 04:11:57 PM
Bullet shape of the conical JHP causing the issue are my thoughts too. Does Mecgar make those mags for the RAMI? I am gonna pick some of the Mecgar BLue round follower mags up for my CZ75. Anyone got a link with a decent deal? BTW thank you for all the replies. Nice to bounce thoughts around and get other perspectives.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: jack76590 on November 12, 2018, 04:24:46 PM
My Rami was ok with round nose ammo, but had same problem as you with JHP. Bullets nosedived. Heavier mag springs seemed to have solved problem. By heavy I mean the wolff spring for full size cz that is +10% used in rami 10 round mag. And you can still get in 10 rounds with this spring installed. Word to the wise the wolff springs for compact mags are weaker than original equipment springs in 10 round mags. I think cz knew rami needed heavy springs but did not go far enough. Good luck. Link. Remember the full size mag springs and pull down menu to get +10% power.
https://www.gunsprings.com/CZ/75%20Series/cID1/mID16/dID91#842
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: aussie57 on November 12, 2018, 04:51:38 PM
My Rami was ok with round nose ammo, but had same problem as you with JHP. Bullets nosedived. Heavier mag springs seemed to have solved problem. By heavy I mean the wolff spring for full size cz that is +10% used in rami 10 round mag. And you can still get in 10 rounds with this spring installed. Word to the wise the wolff springs for compact mags are weaker than original equipment springs in 10 round mags. I think cz knew rami needed heavy springs but did not go far enough. Good luck. Link. Remember the full size mag springs and pull down menu to get +10% power.
https://www.gunsprings.com/CZ/75%20Series/cID1/mID16/dID91#842

Got it thanks.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: MeatAxe on November 13, 2018, 02:52:06 AM
You’ll notice that the Rami has a markedly steeper feed ramp on its barrel than the CZ75 (e.g. a P-01),which is probably the main culprit with flat nosed HPs. Heavier mag springs and new recoil springs may help but may not eliminate the problem 100%.

For the Rami I switched from the sharp edged, flat nosed Barnes TAC bullets to the more rounded (new) Corbon DPX.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Walt Sherrill on November 13, 2018, 11:09:31 AM
Quote from: aussie57
Bullet shape of the conical JHP causing the issue are my thoughts too. Does Mecgar make those mags for the RAMI? I am gonna pick some of the Mecgar BLue round follower mags up for my CZ75. Anyone got a link with a decent deal? BTW thank you for all the replies. Nice to bounce thoughts around and get other perspectives.

I suspect that the only effect you'll see by changing out the RAMI followers is to watch the transfer money from your pocket to Mec-Gar's (if you can get the followers from Mec-Gar), as I don't think  followers have much effect on how the round hits the feed ramp.   

I would argue, as others have, that you simply need to change the shape of the hollowpoint bullet you use to something a bit more rounded than conical.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: frogwalking on November 15, 2018, 02:46:47 PM
My Rami did exactly the same thing.  I was not willing to sacrifice my preferred ammunition in order to carry a particular gun.  I sent mine back to CZ twice.  Now it has fired over a thousand rounds of various ammunition types with no malfunctions of any kind.  It works fine with any correct magazine.  This gun has great potential, but is manufactured to a price.  Don't accept sub par performance.  Don't fiddle with it.  Send it to CZ and they will fix it.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: aussie57 on November 15, 2018, 05:28:43 PM
My Rami did exactly the same thing.  I was not willing to sacrifice my preferred ammunition in order to carry a particular gun.  I sent mine back to CZ twice.  Now it has fired over a thousand rounds of various ammunition types with no malfunctions of any kind.  It works fine with any correct magazine.  This gun has great potential, but is manufactured to a price.  Don't accept sub par performance.  Don't fiddle with it.  Send it to CZ and they will fix it.

I've owned this gun for 12 years and put thousands of rounds down the pipe. I doubt CZ will want to fix it at this juncture. But all is not lost as I reload so I can change the bullet profile.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Husky629 on November 15, 2018, 08:43:48 PM
My RAMI would do the same with HST's with the 14 round magazine.   I went to the +10% full size magazine spring, and it was almost 100%, but still the occasional catch on the feed ramp.  I went to 124 gr +P Gold Dots and the feed ramp catching went away.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Mastodon on November 17, 2018, 08:28:59 PM
I agree with changing the magazine spring.  There has been a little bit of history over the years of the 14 round mags and switching to stronger spring.   Many years back I bought an extra 14 rnd mag and had feed issues unique with it. Switched springs (as mentioned above) and it took care of it.


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Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: aussie57 on November 21, 2018, 04:07:25 PM
Shot the RAMI with a different more rounded bullet profile today and it ran without any issues. Here's where it gets interesting though. I re-tried the offending flat nose conical hollow point rounds that were the perceived culprit on prior outings and the RAMI ate those too without any stoppages. It digested over a hundred of them in different magazines even the older ones that I thought may have been causing the issue. Go figure.  :-\ Some days things just don't make any sense. On a positive note the RAMI has a new recoil assembly and extended mag courtesy of CGW. I guess I will continue to avoid the conical bullets and stick with a more rounded bullet profile but it's mind boggling that now I can't reproduce the issue with the offending bullets.   
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: jack76590 on November 21, 2018, 09:18:30 PM
Shot the RAMI with a different more rounded bullet profile today and it ran without any issues. Here's where it gets interesting though. I re-tried the offending flat nose conical hollow point rounds that were the perceived culprit on prior outings and the RAMI ate those too without any stoppages. It digested over a hundred of them in different magazines even the older ones that I thought may have been causing the issue. Go figure.  :-\ Some days things just don't make any sense. On a positive note the RAMI has a new recoil assembly and extended mag courtesy of CGW. I guess I will continue to avoid the conical bullets and stick with a more rounded bullet profile but it's mind boggling that now I can't reproduce the issue with the offending bullets.   


It could be the new recoil spring, which might be stronger. Or it could be the pistol is getting broken in.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: cntrydawwwg on November 21, 2018, 10:12:58 PM
^^^^^ probably the new recoil spring. If they didn’t feed prior to the new one, and they feed fine after the new one,....... See where I’m going with this
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: aussie57 on November 22, 2018, 08:14:02 AM
^^^^^ probably the new recoil spring. If they didn’t feed prior to the new one, and they feed fine after the new one,....... See where I’m going with this


It could be the new recoil spring, which might be stronger. Or it could be the pistol is getting broken in.


Re-read the original post. The gun is not just getting broken in. It is 12 years old and has had thousands of rounds down the pipe. The gun previously ran fine then started having issues so the recoil assembly was replaced and a new mag was purchased to see if the issue would subside. The gun was then taken to the range and shot with the new mag and recoil assembly and the nose diving was still occurring. The pics in the original post with the nose dived round (which kept occurring every 4-5 rounds) was with the new magazine and new guide rod assembly installed. I took the RAMI back to the range yesterday and shot it extensively with a more rounded profile bullet which worked just fine so I decided to try the conical bullet (the problem child) and it also ran just fine. I also shot it with the older magazines and it still ate everything it was fed. I am going to stick with the more rounded profile bullet and avoid the conical bullet in the RAMI to avoid any future issues. 
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: cntrydawwwg on November 22, 2018, 11:43:47 AM
Sorry, missed that. Was just trying to be positive.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: aussie57 on November 22, 2018, 12:24:53 PM
Sorry, missed that. Was just trying to be positive.

No need to apologize. I hope I did not come across as an "azz".
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: cntrydawwwg on November 22, 2018, 03:18:16 PM
Nope sure didn’t. It’s all good.
   Isn’t the first time I posted without fully reading first.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Walt Sherrill on November 22, 2018, 08:11:51 PM
I wonder if you had a batch of your hand loads (with the conical bullets) that were just a hair LONGER (OAL) than the ones you've used since then?   

It could still have been a bullet-related issue, but more than the bullet alone was causing the problem.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: aussie57 on November 23, 2018, 08:37:31 AM
I wonder if you had a batch of your hand loads (with the conical bullets) that were just a hair LONGER (OAL) than the ones you've used since then?   

It could still have been a bullet-related issue, but more than the bullet alone was causing the problem.

I suppose that could be possible but is highly unlikely. I use a Dillon 550, the tool heads stay pre-set and I meticulously check OAL, crimp diameter, powder charge, etc. etc. when I begin reloading and at various intervals. One factor that may be more likely would be case length as I do not trim pistol cases. At this point it is a "head scratcher"; I'll continue to shoot and monitor and see what happens. 
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Cyman on January 27, 2019, 03:38:09 PM
After getting my new Rami,I took it out to my local range and put several hundred rounds of assorted ball ammo and it ran flawlessly. I went back to the same range but this time their normal ball rounds (BlazerBrass)were unavailable and I had to settle for Armscor JHP.  I racked  the slide and fired one round and got a malfunction. The gun would not go into battery. It stayed open approximately 2to 3 mm and no mount of pushing to get it into battery or pulling on the slide would release the round. The slide was frozen. I was finally able to work a small jewelers screwdriver into the separation and separate the bullet from the casing. I then had the problem of dislodging the bullet in the barrel and that was accomplished with a small flat pencil and a hammer.  I assumed that this was a one of a kind problem and tried twice more to get the gun to fire the ammunition. Both times the exact same scenario as previously described happened on the first round. Went back to the house and got some of my Aquila as well as my Underwood Defendor rounds and both worked flawlessly once more.  Went back to my dealer and he polished up the ramp and examined the gun and was able to fire several JHP rounds. I assumed it was fixed and yesterday went back to my range and asked for the same Armscor ammo and the entire scenario returned once again. I know the easiest thing is to avoid that ammunition but my concern is that when I need the gun to go bang it won’t. Should I leave well enough alone or send it back to CZ?
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Walt Sherrill on January 27, 2019, 04:19:30 PM
If you ONLY have that problem with one brand of ammunition, I wouldn't send it back to CZ.  It sounds as though the ammo you were using is out of spec.  (Compare the length of those rounds to some of the other "ball" ammo you have or can easily access.)

At different times over the years, some of the "compact" CZs had rifling that extended closer to the chamber than was appropriate.  Tha area is called the freebore and if its too short, the rounds might engage the rifling before the gun is closed.  THAT COULD be a problem with your gun.  (I've not heard of that happening with RAMIs, but I don't pay a lot of attention to posts about that model.)
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Cyman on February 15, 2019, 01:37:51 AM
Many thanks!
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: charlestheforth on February 21, 2019, 12:29:04 AM
I just made a thread on increased power recoil springs Ive been testing out over the past year.  When I first got my rami I had a few nose dives.  Ever since I started using the increased power springs i havent had a single malfunction.
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Walt Sherrill on February 21, 2019, 06:59:19 PM
Quote from: charlestheforth
I just made a thread on increased power recoil springs Ive been testing out over the past year.  When I first got my rami I had a few nose dives.  Ever since I started using the increased power springs i havent had a single malfunction.

If you meant extra power MAGAZINE springs (not recoil springs) that makes sense.  If you meant "recoil" springs, I don't understand why that would have any effect on nose-diving rounds.  (But I'll be the first to admit that there's a lot about guns I don't understand.)
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: charlestheforth on February 21, 2019, 11:30:16 PM
youre right.  I guess a real nosedive malfunction is where the bullet dives below the feedramp, and no amount of pushing it forward will put it into battery.  I've just become accustomed to using that term as a catch all for when the bullet gets hung up on the feedramp.  I had a few malfunctions after around 500 rounds through my rami where a good whack on the back of the slide would chamber the round, the increased power recoil springs eliminated those.  sounds like thats not the same problem youre experiencing though. 
Good luck, I hope you get it straightened out!
Title: Re: RAMI nose dives from mags
Post by: Walt Sherrill on February 22, 2019, 03:02:22 PM
The way you've DESCRIBED the problem this time sounds as though the recoil spring wasn't strong enough to retain enough force to feed the next round.  In that case, your solution was the proper one.  What you described was a weak (or weakening) recoil spring.  As long as what you've done works, the problem is solved.  If you roll your own, changing loads can have the same positive or negative effect.