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CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZF KADET KLUB => Topic started by: chomorro on December 30, 2018, 04:17:42 PM

Title: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on December 30, 2018, 04:17:42 PM
Update: figured it out NVM.

Brand new kadet 2 kit.  Filed down the sides so it will fit nice and snug.  But I cant get it passed this point no matter what.  It hits a hard stop not a squeeze stop.

Filed down to bottom barrel according to instructions but I stopped because I dont  think that's what it is hitting.

Advice?  If I put the barrel outside of alignment it fits fine. See pics 3rd photo is as far in as it will go. First pic shows the barrel will align holes if not fitted into the slide.



(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181230/31aebc098ebb4d8df4956c0a17e5b94b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181230/be724a9ae53af584d685fc582e5a1847.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181230/c2edd746480bf15871b59e1ad8c5fdc9.jpg)

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on December 30, 2018, 05:21:24 PM
Nvm figured it out.  Had to really file down that section of the bottom barrel.  Spent some more time doing it and it fits super snug now.

Wish I had done the barrel first. Might not have had to file so much on the slide section.  Fits snug and wont fit in my other sp01 without a little force so its tight clearance.

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: sberres on December 31, 2018, 09:40:53 AM
  Looks like Santa was good to you!
Glad you got it figured out. It’ll be fine even if you worked the front section a bit more than it really had to be. As you said, it fits snug and requires a little gentle persuasion to fit your other frame; that’s exactly how it ought to be.
  With the Kadet the sights are fixed to the adapter and so is the barrel, so fit to the frame has no bearing on barrel to sight alignment. I hope that you will find it as enjoyable as I and so many others do with nice accuracy from a gun that already fits the hand so well and excellent reliability across a broad spectrum of ammo brands.
  Hopefully you’ve already checked into or have the modded uplula loader. They sure make a difference. If not there is a good tutorial available that clearly illustrates the procedure.
  Happy shooting!
 
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on December 31, 2018, 10:10:42 AM
  Looks like Santa was good to you!
Glad you got it figured out. It’ll be fine even if you worked the front section a bit more than it really had to be. As you said, it fits snug and requires a little gentle persuasion to fit your other frame; that’s exactly how it ought to be.
  With the Kadet the sights are fixed to the adapter and so is the barrel, so fit to the frame has no bearing on barrel to sight alignment. I hope that you will find it as enjoyable as I and so many others do with nice accuracy from a gun that already fits the hand so well and excellent reliability across a broad spectrum of ammo brands.
  Hopefully you’ve already checked into or have the modded uplula loader. They sure make a difference. If not there is a good tutorial available that clearly illustrates the procedure.
  Happy shooting!
 
Thank you! I was able to get a new one discounted but now I kind if wish I bought another for my sp01 for the misses. 

Seems like it would be really accurate and reliable since it has a similar design to the buckmark.

Only downside I can find is the price of extra mags........

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: Walt Sherrill on December 31, 2018, 07:25:21 PM
I'd argue that while a snug fit is great, it's not critical for good accuracy.  That's because the barrel and the sight are always locked together, so there's no problem getting consistent lockup.  (It's like a Ruger MK (I-IV)  in which only the bolt really moves when the gun cycles.)  As long as pulling the trigger doesn't cause inconsistent movement of the upper assembly, it should be a tack-driver.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on December 31, 2018, 07:36:19 PM
I'm just hoping it works well with the shadow 1 conversion.  Has the full production legal CGW kit on it, hopefully no issues with the main spring

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: sberres on January 01, 2019, 08:04:59 AM
   You’ll know in pretty short order if the mainspring is too light or not. Not much you can do about the price of extra mags but you’ll get your use out of them if you have them. It’s amazing how quickly you can throw .50 cents downrange again and again!
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: DenStinett on January 02, 2019, 09:32:03 PM
As Walt stated, the "Upper" fit isn't so critical as you would think
The KADET, like the Marvel Unit One (for the 1911) can be as accurate as nicely set-up S&W Model 41
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 02, 2019, 10:03:18 PM
I noticed my version is the only one I have seen with a full slide rail on both sides.  All the other versions I see online have a short rail section for the shorter dust cover models.

I wonder if they updated them or something

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: sberres on January 03, 2019, 09:29:02 AM
  Apparently this is exactly the case and has recently been a topic here. Looks like it will fit the lines of the SP-01 better and just lacks the reduced frontal profile of the the standard 75 models. I’m not sure if these will become two distinct but functionally interchangeable model numbers or if the new profile will supercede the old one. For the SP01 it just means a longer static rail engagement with no difference to the moving part of the slide.
  Let us know how it runs for you. A lot of conversions are known to be fussy about ammo but the Kadet has a reputation for tolerating a broad range. Fed Champion has been the only so far that I can say gives me fits. Other Fed types have been just fine as well as a variety of other budget priced ammo. I cannot understate the pure fun-factor of the Kadet.   Plus the fact that it doesn’t feel like a B.B. gun when you point it downrange.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 06, 2019, 08:15:36 PM
Well bad news.  Took it to the range today.  My new to me cgw shadow one performed flawlessly my fav pistol for sure.

Kadet kit not so well 7 out of 10 mini mags didnt fire on first try.  Had to cock and re fire for it to go off.  Went through 40 rounds and stopped. The mags were also hard to load on 10th round even with the mag loader.

Ideas?  My sp01 has a production legal full cgw upgrade kit and factory shadow 1 upper.


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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: sberres on January 06, 2019, 09:26:24 PM
  The 10th round in the mags can be a real bear sometimes. Using the lula loader I sometimes have to change a little how I work it as opposed to simply pressing down.
  I rather assume that by having the CGW kit it probably means a lighter hammer spring to improve the DA pull. The factory weight spring is generally regarded as necessary for reliable ignition though will find plenty of anecdotal reports to the contrary. Try the full strength hammer spring and see if that helps.
  I’m sure that others can comment more specifically about other spring weights that may be ok if you want to try to achieve a compromise that is under factory.
  Or you’ll just have to have another CZ to run it on so that you can leave the SP-01 with it’s enhancements. It’s a tough addiction to manage sometimes.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: cntrydawwwg on January 06, 2019, 10:18:33 PM
My sp01 has a production legal full cgw upgrade kit and factory shadow 1 upper.


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   Gonna need a heavier hammer spring. I’m sorry, I can’t remember the lightest you can go. I think 15lb, but not sure.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 07, 2019, 12:46:12 AM
My sp01 has a production legal full cgw upgrade kit and factory shadow 1 upper.


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   Gonna need a heavier hammer spring. I’m sorry, I can’t remember the lightest you can go. I think 15lb, but not sure.
If I change the hammer spring will that affect the way it performs now with the super light trigger pull?

Blah I was really hoping I wouldn't have to change anything with this setup.  I do have another sp01 but I was going to sell it.

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: painter on January 07, 2019, 07:12:50 AM
My sp01 has a production legal full cgw upgrade kit and factory shadow 1 upper.


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   Gonna need a heavier hammer spring. I’m sorry, I can’t remember the lightest you can go. I think 15lb, but not sure.
15 lb may work. 17 lb is a sure thing.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: cntrydawwwg on January 07, 2019, 08:38:11 AM
The heavier spring will change your light trigger a bit. It’s just the nature of the beast. Rimfire cartridges just take a heavier spring.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 07, 2019, 10:10:15 AM
The heavier spring will change your light trigger a bit. It’s just the nature of the beast. Rimfire cartridges just take a heavier spring.
So why does it fire every time when manually cocking it? It seems it goes the same distance with the same force. Or maybe I'm wrong

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: cntrydawwwg on January 07, 2019, 11:59:06 AM
I’m guessing when you manually cocked it was after it didn’t fire?
  If so, that’s the second strike. The first strike made a small dent, the second time hits in the exact same spot, allowing the primer to ignite.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 07, 2019, 12:25:46 PM
I’m guessing when you manually cocked it was after it didn’t fire?
  If so, that’s the second strike. The first strike made a small dent, the second time hits in the exact same spot, allowing the primer to ignite.
Makes sense,  seems like an extended firing pin might fix it as well.  Hmmmm

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: painter on January 07, 2019, 06:16:30 PM
I had an extended firing pin in my Kadet...until a weak round caused a FTF...and my chamber ended up getting peened.

Use the heavier spring. They're easy to change if you don't like it for center fire.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 07, 2019, 06:33:14 PM
I had an extended firing pin in my Kadet...until a weak round caused a FTF...and my chamber ended up getting peened.

Use the heavier spring. They're easy to change if you don't like it for center fire.
Ok I will try it before I give up on the kadet kit.  Thanks!

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: Joe L on January 09, 2019, 07:31:10 PM
Use a 17# hammer spring. 
Joe
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 09, 2019, 08:00:50 PM
Use a 17# hammer spring. 
Joe
Do I need to bother with the 3 pack of springs or just order the 17?

I'm going to call cgw to see what they think since all the internals are theirs.  Dont want to prematurely cause extra stress on things with a more powerful spring.

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: Joe L on January 10, 2019, 05:46:18 AM
Get three so you have some spares if you loose one.  No need to talk to CGW.   The factory spring is 18 lb or so.  The CGW spring is probably a 13 lb spring.
I've got over 50k rounds experience with a single Kadet conversion on a 75B frame with CGW internals.  With a 17# spring. 

Get a metal pick to clean the breech face and extractor and firing pin hole every 100 rounds or so or you will start getting some light hits.  Brush the chamber and bore every few hundred rounds.  If the chamber gets too dirty, the casings will drag on extraction and slow the bolt down too much to catch the next round.  Use light oil on the rails, not grease.   

Joe
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 10, 2019, 09:33:32 AM
Get three so you have some spares if you loose one.  No need to talk to CGW.   The factory spring is 18 lb or so.  The CGW spring is probably a 13 lb spring.
I've got over 50k rounds experience with a single Kadet conversion on a 75B frame with CGW internals.  With a 17# spring. 

Get a metal pick to clean the breech face and extractor and firing pin hole every 100 rounds or so or you will start getting some light hits.  Brush the chamber and bore every few hundred rounds.  If the chamber gets too dirty, the casings will drag on extraction and slow the bolt down too much to catch the next round.  Use light oil on the rails, not grease.   

Joe
Excellent advice, I see one of my problems I use light grease for the rails. Thank you!

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: sberres on January 10, 2019, 07:40:21 PM
  I’ve gone to using Mobile 1 as my principle gun oil. It’s made to offer excellent lubricious at a variety of temperature extremes and resist breaking down under the extreme conditions of an engine. Why shouldn’t it be equally at home in a firearm?  Plus there’s plenty left in the container after it’s been emptied. Win win.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 10, 2019, 07:45:54 PM
  I’ve gone to using Mobile 1 as my principle gun oil. It’s made to offer excellent lubricious at a variety of temperature extremes and resist breaking down under the extreme conditions of an engine. Why shouldn’t it be equally at home in a firearm?  Plus there’s plenty left in the container after it’s been emptied. Win win.
Well I wanted to get away from oil because of all the mess. It gets all over everything in my safe and bags lol.   Had good luck with grease, I will try it with a 17 spring and see if it works well enough.  If not then back to oil for it

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: sberres on January 10, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
I generally use a light grease for anything with an aluminum frame, such as the Mcarbo mil-spec, but still a drop of Mobil 1 on the slide rail grooves. Keeps it from dripping all over and still seems to have evidence of lube retained after use.  I consider myself to be a bit generous when oiling steel parts but generally no more than 3 drops in the rail groove. I think the hammer spring and Joe’s suggestion to pay extra attention to the firing pin hole will take care of you.  22 has a way of gunking things up quickly. Get it running nice and then see what it takes to slow it down.


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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: DenStinett on January 20, 2019, 01:49:54 AM
Sure would like to see a pic of that new "all steel" KADET 2 on your SP-01 now that you've got it up and running
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on January 20, 2019, 09:25:32 AM
Sure would like to see a pic of that new "all steel" KADET 2 on your SP-01 now that you've got it up and running
I bought another kadet 1 kit that I was running in my unmodified sp01 and it ran perfectly.  Bought it used for super cheap so I figured might as well since extra mags are so expensive. 

Since I know the sp01 works great with the other one I will take the kadet 2 kit to the range on Monday to make sure it also works before changing the spring on my CGW sp01.

I will post up some pics when I take it apart for cleaning.

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on February 09, 2019, 06:35:28 PM
Just got back from the range.  Tried a 13lb blue spring in the CGW shadow sp01.  Cci blazer 22 had maybe 4 out of 10 light strikes every magazine.  Ran through 20 rounds of golden bullet without any issues but didnt bring more to test.

Going to try more golden bullets and see if that runs reliably.  The 13lb spring didnt change the pull too much but it is noticeable over the 11lb spring.

I do have a 15lb spring that is guaranteed to run reliably (according to cgw) but I dont think I'm willing to sacrifice the 9mm trigger pull for it.

Overall im disappointed I cant use my 11lb black spring with this kit, it would have been perfect.  If I can't get it to run with the 13lb I will most likely sell it

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: adrian on February 09, 2019, 07:07:31 PM
     Hiya Chamorro and hope ya don't mind my two cents on you Kadet subject. I ran it on my po-2 and shadow frame with combos of springs and even sent out for the extended firing pin that,if memory serves Joe L. fabricated.The final solution became dedicate a frame for it,so bought a 75b-SA, went overboard and prolly the most expensive .22 I've owned. The 13lb spring and the extended firing pin moved 50% light strike to bout 25%, but the 17lb spring made the biggest improvement to 5%. So for that last attempt try the 17lb spring, see if Joe L. was the extended firing pin guy, if not pm me and will look around for a spare. Hope that helps. Be well.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: Joe L on February 09, 2019, 07:20:23 PM
It was 75Plus (the other Joe) that made a firing pin, but it won't solve the light hammer spring problem.  Even a 15 lb hammer spring won't be 100% in most pistols.  A 17 lb spring has been 100% in my pistol and is the minimum requirement in my opinion, for reliable ignition, no matter what else is done to help things. 

Folks have been trying to run the Kadet with their preferred light DA/SA game gun hammer springs (I assume) ever since the Kadet first came out.  Won't work. 

I switched springs with the slides for a year, got tired of that and just went SAO and pretty much dedicated my 75B frame to the Kadet.  Once you go SAO, the 17 lb hammer spring isn't a problem switching slides, but it is no longer a production gun for run and gun either, from what I remember of the rules.

Joe
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: Boris_LA on February 11, 2019, 11:03:16 AM
Light firing pin spring, stolen from the ballpoint pen works very well with 13lb main spring. That and filing the chisel point of the firing pin to reduce the contact area served me well for many thousand rounds without light strikes.
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: Joe L on February 11, 2019, 01:25:19 PM
Light firing pin spring, stolen from the ballpoint pen works very well with 13lb main spring. That and filing the chisel point of the firing pin to reduce the contact area served me well for many thousand rounds without light strikes.

Try it, nothing to loose!  I ran a ball point pen spring for a few months myself when I lost the CZ spring, but I didn't try it with a 13lb hammer spring.  I hope it works for you.  You might also need to use Boris' choice of ammo.

Joe
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on April 02, 2019, 12:59:37 AM
If anyone is interested I did a lot of tinkering and finally got the kadet kit to run pretty much perfect with a SAO shadow pro package kit.

Had to trim a few coils off the firing pin spring and swap the 11.5lb main spring for a 13lb main spring.  Didnt change the SAO pull and the kit ran fantastic for at least 40 golden bullet rounds rapid fire lol.

Just needs a fiber optic front sight and I am in business. Tried to do it with just trimming the firing pin spring but never worked no matter how small I got it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190402/658033cb52957a753899112c843e46b3.jpg)

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: adrian on April 05, 2019, 10:26:42 AM
     Hiya chomorro and thanks for giving us your final solution to the age old question. I don't want to give up my 9mm trigger performance,but how do I prevent light strikes when using my different Kadet kits for .22lr.
     I'd be interested to know if you had run any of your CCI blazer with this final solution and if faired as well as the remington golden rounds, the golden seemed to run perfect even before this last tinker. Mine did perfect with the federal in the maroon and blue boxes.I believe they are similar in cost per round.
     So thanks for your tinkering,cutting and patience with experimenting as you contributed to the knowledge base we have been adding to our enjoyment of pairing a Kadet kit to so many cz platforms. Be well.
     
Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on April 05, 2019, 10:45:57 AM
     Hiya chomorro and thanks for giving us your final solution to the age old question. I don't want to give up my 9mm trigger performance,but how do I prevent light strikes when using my different Kadet kits for .22lr.
     I'd be interested to know if you had run any of your CCI blazer with this final solution and if faired as well as the remington golden rounds, the golden seemed to run perfect even before this last tinker. Mine did perfect with the federal in the maroon and blue boxes.I believe they are similar in cost per round.
     So thanks for your tinkering,cutting and patience with experimenting as you contributed to the knowledge base we have been adding to our enjoyment of pairing a Kadet kit to so many cz platforms. Be well.
   
I have only been running golden bullets but I do have a box of cci blazer.  I will test it next range day and get back to you.

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: chomorro on April 07, 2019, 09:03:31 PM
     Hiya chomorro and thanks for giving us your final solution to the age old question. I don't want to give up my 9mm trigger performance,but how do I prevent light strikes when using my different Kadet kits for .22lr.
     I'd be interested to know if you had run any of your CCI blazer with this final solution and if faired as well as the remington golden rounds, the golden seemed to run perfect even before this last tinker. Mine did perfect with the federal in the maroon and blue boxes.I believe they are similar in cost per round.
     So thanks for your tinkering,cutting and patience with experimenting as you contributed to the knowledge base we have been adding to our enjoyment of pairing a Kadet kit to so many cz platforms. Be well.
   
Tested it today. Ran 100 rounds of blazer through it with no issues.  Did
Start having failures to eject but I'm blaming that on dirty gun.

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Title: Re: Having the hardest time fitting the kadet kit
Post by: adrian on April 07, 2019, 10:04:37 PM
     Hiya and thanks for keeping us up on the progress,and sounds like problem solved and you are happy again. Think the around 100 flawless rounds was so consistent with my federal ammo,I loaded 10 mags and that was my .22lr limit for the day,did keep a metal pick,just in case. We did have a forum member that ran the Kadet without cleaning for I believe thousands of rounds,He posted pics of the art of fouling it built up,ALOT. Be well.