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GENERAL => Ammo Questions and Handloading Techniques => Topic started by: Scarlett Pistol on January 02, 2019, 07:08:44 PM

Title: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on January 02, 2019, 07:08:44 PM
I have my ideas but have never asked or seen this asked specifically.

If we have sizing dies that are supposed to re-size our brass, then why would there be a need for the Lee FCD.

According to their site:
Quote
A carbide sizer inside the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability.
https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die


Is this just to deal with chambers that have poor support for the brass and cause bulging? Why wouldn't that be something sizing dies take care of? Or are there better sizing dies out that that do size all the way down the case and take care of this?


Just wanted to hear what ya'll have to say and teach about this?
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: painter on January 02, 2019, 07:26:00 PM
JMO...

It's for reloaders that can't build a round that will chamber.

No disrespect to the A man intended. i know he uses that die.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on January 02, 2019, 07:39:29 PM
JMO...

It's for reloaders that can't build a round that will chamber.

Is this implying that a properly set up sizing die will effectively size and the FCD is thereby not necessary?

IF so is there variability of the sizing dies across brands that would lead to poor sizing and the requirement of the FCD is someone doesn't realize they have a terrible sizing die?
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: IDescribe on January 02, 2019, 07:53:38 PM

If we have sizing dies that are supposed to re-size our brass, then why would there be a need for the Lee FCD.


Lee sizing dies are so shoddy that they need a second one at the end to make things right.   O0  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on January 02, 2019, 07:54:49 PM
I think it came from those loading un-sized lead bullets. Those, and sometimes even the sized ones, will leave a bump on the side of the brass that will keep the finished cartridge from chambering. It's rare, but it happens. So they decided to add a carbide ring to the TC die to iron out the cartridge walls as the last step.

It sounds good in theory, but it causes as many problems as it repairs.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: IDescribe on January 02, 2019, 07:57:41 PM

According to their site:
Quote
A carbide sizer inside the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability.


Fired, unsized cases positively chamber.  This is how we do Wobbly's push test.  ;) 

Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: painter on January 03, 2019, 06:45:08 AM
JMO...

It's for reloaders that can't build a round that will chamber.

Is this implying that a properly set up sizing die will effectively size and the FCD is thereby not necessary?

IF so is there variability of the sizing dies across brands that would lead to poor sizing and the requirement of the FCD is someone doesn't realize they have a terrible sizing die?
Absolutely! I load Berry's 124 gr HBRN in cases sized with a Lyman die. I use a single stage press, and don't expand the cases. After seating my rounds are done, and I've never had a single round not chamber.

If you expand cases you need to crimp to remove any remaining bell, you shouldn't need to touch anything but the case mouth.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Ruber on January 03, 2019, 12:35:18 PM
I agree with Painter.  In my mind, the FCD exists to make money off of people who for one reason or another introduce slop into their process. It could be that it is a cheap and easy alternative to being precise and meticulous.

Personally, I handload not to simply save on cost, but also to produce higher quality ammo than I can get in a store.  So for me, the FCD has no place on the bench.

I do know people who use them churning out thousands of budget handloads and I get it, that?s just not my style.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Radom on January 09, 2019, 05:10:20 PM
I think it came from those loading un-sized lead bullets. Those, and sometimes even the sized ones, will leave a bump on the side of the brass that will keep the finished cartridge from chambering. It's rare, but it happens. So they decided to add a carbide ring to the TC die to iron out the cartridge walls as the last step.

It sounds good in theory, but it causes as many problems as it repairs.

IMHO, the main reason that the Lee FCD exists is that reloaded 9mm cartridges don't look "pretty."  If you look closely at factory 9mm cartridges, they don't look "pretty," either.  Even the factory cartridges have an area about halfway up the case where the inherent taper flares out to the diameter of the bearing surface. 

With the Lee FCD, running an otherwise perfect revolver load through the die (the bullet already tapered properly within the crimping groove) tends to compress the mouth and ruin the original crimp.     

The old saying is that if you only have a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail.   


EDIT: I sort of forgot why I originally quoted Wobbly.  There was once a mentality that sizing lead bullets only really mattered for Magnum chamberings, because people weren't casting for semis other than .45 ACP.  (You can get away with a lot of slop in .38 Special, even though I don't recommend it.)
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: zhuk on January 23, 2019, 04:22:24 PM
Certain Dillon progressive presses can be notorious for not resizing the full length of the case, unlike other dies. My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: IDescribe on January 23, 2019, 07:52:18 PM
My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

This doesn't make sense.  If your press doesn't take other brand dies, how do you use the Lee FCD?
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on January 24, 2019, 08:22:12 AM
Certain Dillon progressive presses can be notorious for not resizing the full length of the case, unlike other dies.

No press on the market sizes the full length of the case due to the shell holder blocking access to the head of the case. Progressives are even worse because they need more of a lead-in ramp (or internal flare) built into the Sizing Die's mouth. I was not aware that the Dillon SDB's gave any more or less coverage with their special dies. Due to these inherent design constraints, the Sizing Die needs to come as far down as possible without upsetting the press ram/platen as it raises the shell to the dies.

I would say to check your clearance between the die mouth and shell holder. On all machines, the Sizing Die's position is set first, then all other dies are set relative to that die.


My [Dillon] Square Deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

If you've got a bulged case after loading, then chances are you had a severely bulged case before you started. Such cases are from guns with unsupported chambers, and not a CZ. So we must be talking about "range pick up brass".

I use range pick up myself, but generally find that under scrutiny, 1 in 10 new pieces are not worthy of reloading. You've got to check for Berdan primers, steel cases, and internally stepped cases, so while it's in your hand why not simply check for this bulging ?

I'm sensitive to your subject, but of the 2 SBD's I've owned, and all the hundreds of SDB owners I've talked to, you're the first to say this.

 ;)
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: zhuk on January 25, 2019, 02:03:01 AM
My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

This doesn't make sense.  If your press doesn't take other brand dies, how do you use the Lee FCD?

You use it after the fact on a single stage press.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: IDescribe on January 25, 2019, 07:50:09 AM
My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

This doesn't make sense.  If your press doesn't take other brand dies, how do you use the Lee FCD?

You use it after the fact on a single stage press.

Then it's not invaluable.  If you are going to a single stage press anyway, you'd be better off using a decent sizing die in the single stage to size the cases properly to begin with, making the FCD useless in that regard, and avoiding the pitfalls of teh FCD altogether.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: 1SOW on January 25, 2019, 04:41:55 PM
ID + 1 in that situation!
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: recoilguy on January 25, 2019, 05:03:40 PM
+2
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: zhuk on January 26, 2019, 10:30:45 PM
Certain Dillon progressive presses can be notorious for not resizing the full length of the case, unlike other dies.

No press on the market sizes the full length of the case due to the shell holder blocking access to the head of the case. Progressives are even worse because they need more of a lead-in ramp (or internal flare) built into the Sizing Die's mouth. I was not aware that the Dillon SDB's gave any more or less coverage with their special dies. Due to these inherent design constraints, the Sizing Die needs to come as far down as possible without upsetting the press ram/platen as it raises the shell to the dies.

I would say to check your clearance between the die mouth and shell holder. On all machines, the Sizing Die's position is set first, then all other dies are set relative to that die.


My [Dillon] Square Deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

If you've got a bulged case after loading, then chances are you had a severely bulged case before you started. Such cases are from guns with unsupported chambers, and not a CZ. So we must be talking about "range pick up brass".

I use range pick up myself, but generally find that under scrutiny, 1 in 10 new pieces are not worthy of reloading. You've got to check for Berdan primers, steel cases, and internally stepped cases, so while it's in your hand why not simply check for this bulging ?

I'm sensitive to your subject, but of the 2 SBD's I've owned, and all the hundreds of SDB owners I've talked to, you're the first to say this.

 ;)


My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

This doesn't make sense.  If your press doesn't take other brand dies, how do you use the Lee FCD?

You use it after the fact on a single stage press.

Then it's not invaluable.  If you are going to a single stage press anyway, you'd be better off using a decent sizing die in the single stage to size the cases properly to begin with, making the FCD useless in that regard, and avoiding the pitfalls of teh FCD altogether.


Thanks for your replies Wobbly and IDescribe. Just trying to sort this out and your help is much appreciated..and I am mindful of hijacking this thread from the OP so I'll try and condense it all here.

Yep you're spot on...all my brass is a great variety of range pickups, which have (naturally!) been no issue in the last 8 years I've been shooting an M&P; as far as I understand its chamber is not unsupported...and there is no one in my club who shoots a Glock so I can at least rule that out.

I checked the press; the sizing die appears to be about as far down as it can reasonably be when the shellplate is cammed with it:

(https://i.postimg.cc/W1RSZZtc/IMG-20190127-133811.jpg)


The brass (no matter the headstamp) is not bulged after firing, only when loaded:


(https://i.postimg.cc/HsM0XVQX/IMG-20190125-181412.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/dQpmh8TJ/IMG-20190125-181532.jpg)


Fired case on the left, resized on the right

(https://i.postimg.cc/0NnChHn9/IMG-20190127-134046.jpg)


The 135gr projectiles are hard coated lead, all very uniform at around .355


Tried barrel dropping a few, one had no chance with an OAL shorter than one which almost chambered.


My thinking was the FCD would simply make all rounds uniform without having to barrel drop every one and pull those which don't chamber.

(https://i.postimg.cc/cJFf0YSy/IMG-20190125-181959.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3w82s1zF/IMG-20190125-181730.jpg)


(https://i.postimg.cc/3RbFx4z6/IMG-20190127-134946.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fRxCfb0t/IMG-20190127-135238.jpg)



Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: painter on January 27, 2019, 06:08:02 AM
The bulge in 9mm reloads is typical, and not an issue.

I think you have a crimp issue, but not one that requires the FCD to solve. Are you taper crimping your ammo?

What do the cases pictured with the barrel measure, as close to the case mouth as you can get with your calipers?

Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on January 27, 2019, 11:11:35 AM
Yep you're spot on...all my brass is a great variety of range pickups, which have (naturally!) been no issue in the last 8 years I've been shooting an M&P; as far as I understand its chamber is not unsupported...and there is no one in my club who shoots a Glock so I can at least rule that out.
? Glock got a bad reputation with their unsupported chambers in Gen 1 guns in 40S&W, not the 9mm.
? Gen 1 guns haven't been made in ~20 years
? There are many, many 9's on the market with unsupported chambers

On top of all that, anyone shooting 9 Major at your club ? Cases fired in Major guns have a bad habit of expanding the head. All it takes is 0.001" of expansion at the head to not fit into any SAAMI chamber. I think you should start by measuring your brass. The head of your brass MUST be 0.391" or smaller.

Not to be snippy, but the cartridge diagram in your loading manual is there for a reason. If your finished cartridge doesn't fall below (smaller than) those dimensions, then you're in trouble. That also includes the taper crimp.

I checked the press; the sizing die appears to be about as far down as it can reasonably be when the shellplate is cammed with it:
You actually don't want the shell plate touching the die, but you need it to come as close as possible. So I use a sheet of paper as a feeler gauge. That will set the clearance at ~0.003". If you can pull the paper out without taring the paper you're OK.

The brass (no matter the headstamp) is not bulged after firing, only when loaded:
You have made the erroneous assumption that irregularities in the brass that will keep it from loading can be seen with the naked eye. That is absolutely NOT true. As stated earlier in this post, a good caliper and a good micrometer are needed.

The 135gr projectiles are hard coated lead, all very uniform at around 0.355".
What happened to lead projectiles being 0.356-0.357" ?

Tried barrel dropping a few, one had no chance with an OAL shorter than one which almost chambered.
The "barrel plunk test" will only prove you have issues. It won't tell you want the issues are.

My thinking was the FCD would simply make all rounds uniform without having to barrel drop every one and pull those which don't chamber.
And really that's what Lee wants you to believe. Buy this die and all your troubles will be over. Nothing can be further from the truth. You still need to learn to adjust the FCD, which requires making several measurements, either on production or test cartridges. Even with my one-piece taper crimp dies... I still put a caliper on rounds during every production run. Modern Quality Control mandates that the guy running the machine bring all the dimensions within spec, and make occasional measurements (checks) to keep everything in spec.


Reloading is part art and part science. If you want to load a different powder or bullet every day, or try different OALs, that's the art part. The sky's the limit, as they say.

Then there's the hard science of numbers. You cannot be flippant about meeting the required dimensions. "Close" simply isn't good enough. In reading your post I'm getting this feeling (maybe incorrectly) that you're very casual about dimensions. That simply won't work. Your case heads must be 0.391" or smaller. Your taper crimps must be 0.380" or smaller (hopefully 0.376 to 0.378").

Have you seen this: Taper Crimp: Everything you need to know (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=78873.0)


Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Old Rocket on January 29, 2019, 07:40:15 AM
I love the FCD , gutted and used as a bulge buster for 40s&w.
Never had a issue with 9mm that a sizing die wouldn't take care of.
I use a seating die then a light taper crimp just to remove any flair.
I have not reloaded jacketed or plated projectiles in years, only coated bullets.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: IronicTwitch on January 29, 2019, 12:38:24 PM
40S&W brass from a police range pickup. 

Top 3 cases used a Dillon size die on a 650XL. 
 - Obviously weakened case walls and would not pass case gauge. 
 - Not all cases were this extreme (see second picture below with two rounds that passed case gauge).  I don't plan to shoot these.

Bottom 2 cases used a Lee FCD on a 650XL. 
 - These passed case gauge.
 - I included two nickel plated cases since they were more likely to exhibit the issue seen in the first 3 examples. 

I've loaded many thousands of 40S&W on my SDB (before I bought my 650XL) and did not have these issues.  Needless to say I was disappointed in the Dillon sizing die on the 650.

(https://i.imgur.com/DHrDTay.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/rKWOEp2.jpg)
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on January 29, 2019, 04:16:01 PM
I've loaded many thousands of 40S&W on my SDB (before I bought my 650XL) and did not have these issues.  Needless to say I was disappointed in the Dillon sizing die on the 650.


I've never seen brass like that as a result of Dillon Sizing Dies. Might want to call Dillon CS.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Jmoser on January 29, 2019, 04:58:28 PM
Use the FCD in many heavy handgun rounds including 9mm+P.  On JHPs [XTP etc] it cannot be beat for heavy crimp on hot loads.  Don't use with softer lead bullets as it can resize the bullet inside the case.

It's more useful for magnum revolvers but it reworks bulged 10mm cases quite well.  Debatable in the 9 but for specific loads and bullets it can be ideal.

Most common pistol rounds headspace on the extractor anyway so my crimps are tailored to other considerations.

FCD is especially nice in the 45-70 at upper limits !!
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on January 29, 2019, 05:16:43 PM
Most common pistol rounds headspace on the extractor anyway so my crimps are tailored to other considerations.


You're going to need to list those common rounds for us.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on January 30, 2019, 01:43:23 AM
Most common pistol rounds headspace on the extractor anyway so my crimps are tailored to other considerations.


You're going to need to list those common rounds for us.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headspace_(firearms)

You mean the forward lip of the cartridge?

Quote
Straight-walled rimless cartridges often headspace on the forward lip of the cartridge as shown in the diagram at the top of this article.   

Quote
Headspace for rimmed cartridges is the space between that forward ledge and the bolt face when the action is closed.

So even rimmed cartridges don?t headspace on extractors.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: IDescribe on January 30, 2019, 06:12:43 AM
9mm cases are .754 by spec.   In a 9mm pistol, with a case of .754, the case mouth should headspace on the headspacing step in the chamber when the pistol is in battery. The case should be more or less pinned between the breech face and chamber step when in battery.

This means that distance from the breech face to the headspacing step when is the pistol is in battery should be .754.

In reality, very few 9mm cases are as long as the SAAMI spec.  Very few exceed even .750.  And we know that 9mm cases get shorter as they are fired and resized.  As cases get shorter than the space between the breech face and the chamber step, the case will be prevented from reaching the headspacing step by the extractor.  At this point, you would say that the case is headspacing on the extractor.

IF the case properly headspaces on the chamber step, that will act to square the cartridge to the bore (assuming the chamber was reamed well, with the headspacing step squared to the bore).  I read an articles a few years ago where a guy did accuracy testing based on case length.  Same length was better than mixed, and longer was better than shorter, although there were quickly diminishing returns over (I think) .750.

The guy who did the testing (the test was well-composed) speculated that when the case length was no longer long enough to square against the chamber step, basically hanging on the extractor, that precision started to suffer.

It makes sense.  It is, as well, another reason not to over-crimp because crimping not only removes the bell, when you overdo it, it tapers/thins out the walls at the case mouth, not truly shortening the case, but effectively shortening the case by making it narrowing the OD at the case mouth enough that it will never square to the chamber step at any length.  9mm case mouth spec is .380.  Get that measurement narrow enough, and it won't contact the chamber step all the way around.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Jmoser on January 30, 2019, 08:08:46 AM
So even rimmed cartridges don?t headspace on extractors.

You are joking right?  Ever shot a revolver?  Where the rim sits against the star extractor preventing it from moving further forward?  Headspace measurement and mechanism are 2 completely different things.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on January 30, 2019, 09:02:18 AM
So even rimmed cartridges don?t headspace on extractors.

You are joking right?  Ever shot a revolver?  Where the rim sits against the star extractor preventing it from moving further forward?  Headspace measurement and mechanism are 2 completely different things.

Contextually the conversation was around most common pistol rounds and I was thinking that most common pistols that fire those most common rounds are semi auto?s. You?re correct on your retort for revolvers. Idescribe covered the mechanical function of your statement happening in real life, although it is not how the headspace for those cartridges is defined. Was his explanation what you were getting at?
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on January 30, 2019, 03:32:41 PM
Contextually the conversation was around most common pistol rounds and I was thinking that most common pistols that fire those most common rounds are semi auto?s. You?re correct on your retort for revolvers.

I'm with you, SP. A pistol is either a single-shot muzzle loader or a semi-auto. Revolvers are revolvers.

The comment left me scratching my head.
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: eastman on January 30, 2019, 06:31:25 PM
Contextually the conversation was around most common pistol rounds and I was thinking that most common pistols that fire those most common rounds are semi auto?s. You?re correct on your retort for revolvers.

I'm with you, SP. A pistol is either a single-shot muzzle loader or a semi-auto. Revolvers are revolvers.

The comment left me scratching my head.

don't forget Contenders
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: zhuk on May 29, 2019, 11:12:12 AM
Yep you're spot on...all my brass is a great variety of range pickups, which have (naturally!) been no issue in the last 8 years I've been shooting an M&P; as far as I understand its chamber is not unsupported...and there is no one in my club who shoots a Glock so I can at least rule that out.
? Glock got a bad reputation with their unsupported chambers in Gen 1 guns in 40S&W, not the 9mm.
? Gen 1 guns haven't been made in ~20 years
? There are many, many 9's on the market with unsupported chambers

On top of all that, anyone shooting 9 Major at your club ? Cases fired in Major guns have a bad habit of expanding the head. All it takes is 0.001" of expansion at the head to not fit into any SAAMI chamber. I think you should start by measuring your brass. The head of your brass MUST be 0.391" or smaller.

Not to be snippy, but the cartridge diagram in your loading manual is there for a reason. If your finished cartridge doesn't fall below (smaller than) those dimensions, then you're in trouble. That also includes the taper crimp.

I checked the press; the sizing die appears to be about as far down as it can reasonably be when the shellplate is cammed with it:
You actually don't want the shell plate touching the die, but you need it to come as close as possible. So I use a sheet of paper as a feeler gauge. That will set the clearance at ~0.003". If you can pull the paper out without taring the paper you're OK.

The brass (no matter the headstamp) is not bulged after firing, only when loaded:
You have made the erroneous assumption that irregularities in the brass that will keep it from loading can be seen with the naked eye. That is absolutely NOT true. As stated earlier in this post, a good caliper and a good micrometer are needed.

The 135gr projectiles are hard coated lead, all very uniform at around 0.355".
What happened to lead projectiles being 0.356-0.357" ?

Tried barrel dropping a few, one had no chance with an OAL shorter than one which almost chambered.
The "barrel plunk test" will only prove you have issues. It won't tell you want the issues are.

My thinking was the FCD would simply make all rounds uniform without having to barrel drop every one and pull those which don't chamber.
And really that's what Lee wants you to believe. Buy this die and all your troubles will be over. Nothing can be further from the truth. You still need to learn to adjust the FCD, which requires making several measurements, either on production or test cartridges. Even with my one-piece taper crimp dies... I still put a caliper on rounds during every production run. Modern Quality Control mandates that the guy running the machine bring all the dimensions within spec, and make occasional measurements (checks) to keep everything in spec.


Reloading is part art and part science. If you want to load a different powder or bullet every day, or try different OALs, that's the art part. The sky's the limit, as they say.

Then there's the hard science of numbers. You cannot be flippant about meeting the required dimensions. "Close" simply isn't good enough. In reading your post I'm getting this feeling (maybe incorrectly) that you're very casual about dimensions. That simply won't work. Your case heads must be 0.391" or smaller. Your taper crimps must be 0.380" or smaller (hopefully 0.376 to 0.378").

Have you seen this: Taper Crimp: Everything you need to know (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=78873.0)


Hope this helps.

First up apologies for dragging this post back from the dead...when I last posted my gun had gone back to the importer to get the mag release button swapped over and a pre-B disconnector installed, and unfortunately its still there, 5 months later and I've not been able to fire a single shot out of it yet. So sorry if you thought I was intentionally ignoring your post, Wobbly...had been hoping to at least try some loads before now.


I have to agree with you that I've never measured OAL before so from that standpoint I have indeed been "casual" about dimensions, then again shooting an M&P I could afford to be - if it fitted in the magazine with many varying lengths, it fired, no questions asked. Over 40,000 rounds later I could apparently afford to be lax. Obviously the Shadow is going to be a very different animal. 

(and yes sorry for the typo on .356 lol)

No, nobody shoot 9mm major at my club, nor any other club I know of...anyone wanting to go major uses .38super or .357sig (.40 being illegal here)

Thank you very much for going to the trouble of explaining and throwing up the taper crimp link....understanding your comments on the FCD, I purchased a Lee resizing and decapping die to run the brass through prior to priming etc, bypassing the Square deal resizing die altogether. Measuring the resized brass, all the case heads are .391 or smaller and on loading a few test rounds, you are right the taper crimp comes in at exactly .378".

Now all I need is my gun back to try barrel dropping them  ::) lol
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on May 29, 2019, 05:21:21 PM
Glad you're back, and 'Yes' you did the correct thing by continuing your person thread.

After 5 months, I think I'd request my gun returned and simply send it to CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works and pay for the necessary work. But what do I know.

Please feel free to contact us again should you ever see your gun. With a real gun in hand, this discussion could move from the purely academic to something that might result in very accurate ammo.

All the best.  ;)
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: zhuk on June 04, 2019, 02:15:19 AM
Glad you're back, and 'Yes' you did the correct thing by continuing your person thread.

After 5 months, I think I'd request my gun returned and simply send it to CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works and pay for the necessary work. But what do I know.

Please feel free to contact us again should you ever see your gun. With a real gun in hand, this discussion could move from the purely academic to something that might result in very accurate ammo.

All the best.  ;)

Apologies for the late reply...love your sardonic work Wobbly lol

Well unfortunately I am in Australia and this guy is the CZ importer and sole distributor of parts..alas it's like that in a miniscule market.  He already told me 3 weeks ago he was getting the gun back from whoever he gets to work on them, and just reassemble it minus the fabled pre b disco. Then I'd pick it up (allegedly) And never walk through his door again, obviously.

Spare parts well yes I'll have to, but get anything done, hell no.

If I should ever see it again, as you say lol
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on June 04, 2019, 12:54:11 PM
Well unfortunately I am in Australia and this guy is the CZ importer and sole distributor of parts... alas it's like that in a miniscule market.  He already told me 3 weeks ago he was getting the gun back from whoever he gets to work on them, and just reassemble it minus the fabled pre-B disco. Then I'd pick it up (allegedly). And never walk through his door again, obviously.

Not to be too sardonic, but "I feel your pain."



Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: zhuk on June 04, 2019, 07:57:28 PM
Well unfortunately I am in Australia and this guy is the CZ importer and sole distributor of parts... alas it's like that in a miniscule market.  He already told me 3 weeks ago he was getting the gun back from whoever he gets to work on them, and just reassemble it minus the fabled pre-B disco. Then I'd pick it up (allegedly). And never walk through his door again, obviously.

Not to be too sardonic, but "I feel your pain."

Mate, it's much appreciated thank you  :)

And should I ever get my hands on it, will let you know lol
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: zhuk on June 13, 2019, 04:53:44 PM
Well, there's a minor miracle....it's alive lol

Minus the alleged disco, naturally  ::) but in my hands, finally


(https://i.postimg.cc/rsf2p1zX/IMG-20190613-105156.jpg)
Title: Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
Post by: Wobbly on June 13, 2019, 06:15:01 PM
It's been so long, if you still remember how, you can remove the barrel and use that as the judge for some of the ammo tests we discussed.

Congrats on the pistol's return to home.