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GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dan_69GTX on January 28, 2019, 01:47:16 PM

Title: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 28, 2019, 01:47:16 PM
I don't want to break the bank, but I don't want to have to shoot the scope to remove frustration with it.

I was looking at the Vortex Diamondback 20-60x80 and the Leupold 20-60x80.  Only problem is, I can't "test" them in the store to see if it will do what I want.  I do know that the Diamondback 20-60x60 does NOT have enough eye relief for me.

They are each around $500.  Do I need to spend the 900 on a viper or 1500 on the Razor to see these holes?

What do you think about the 500 ones?  What would you recommend - or what would you stay away from?

I was looking at the Vortex due to the warranty.  I have their scopes and range finder and like both.

Thanks!
Dan
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Phlyers13 on January 28, 2019, 04:24:09 PM
You are really going to be pushing it.  I have the razor and seeing 223 at 300 is doable under the right conditions but not ideal. Your best bet may be a target camera system.  In my experience, the difference between a $100 spotter and a $500 one are minimal. Even when you step up in price, seeing 223 holes are going to be tough and require the right lighting and outside temperature. Just a hair of mirage will ruin your view completely. I have a vortex razor 60x and can see 308 holes out to 400 on shoot n sees. That?s about it?s limit.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Joe L on January 28, 2019, 05:06:56 PM
My solution is not practical for most shooters, but I will tell you about it anyway.  I set up a video receiver and 7" video monitor at the shooter position and a video camera at the target with output to a transmitter.   This was maybe five years ago and there are many commercially available systems out now with more transmitter range and better video resolution using HDMI camera output to the transmitter.  This also gets away from the mirage problem as the target camera can be a short distance from the target.  I don't recommend a fixed focal length camera at the target.  I use a $200 Canon consumer grade camcorder (same one I use for pistol videos but with the transmitter), place it on a cheap tripod with a ball head, just off the bullet path in a stable position, adjust the camera zoom to show the target area of interest, turn it on record and drive back to the shooting line.  I've used it to 500 meters and video the shots as they hit the target as well as view what the target camera is seeing real time as I am shooting.  No need for a scope. 

Here is an example of a .308 at 547 yards.
https://youtu.be/6QHd16p12Sw (https://youtu.be/6QHd16p12Sw)

Joe
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: larryflew on January 28, 2019, 05:27:10 PM
Gopro and bluetooth is probably the cheapest as an older version would work fine.  Gopro or almost any digital camera and wireless system to any size monitor probably next. Even the super cheap wireless systems from China work well in line of sight situations. RC type batteries for power eliminates lead acid battery use or cheap gell battery. All systems work well on 8-12 volts and donte draw much so small batteries work fine and are much easier to lug to targets.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Joe L on January 28, 2019, 05:42:23 PM
I would probably hit a GoPro if it was close enough to show .223 holes and a 6"x12" target.  Lens is very wide angle of view.  I haven't "shot" a Canon camcorder yet!! :) :)
Joe
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Phlyers13 on January 28, 2019, 05:50:37 PM
Joe that?s a great setup and some fine shooting!
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Joe L on January 28, 2019, 08:49:43 PM
Joe that?s a great setup and some fine shooting!

I don't get to shoot the rifle much, but I love it.  20 rounds and I'm done!!  That is a Savage .308 with no changes except an XLR chassis.

Joe
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: larryflew on January 29, 2019, 12:02:21 AM
I would probably hit a GoPro if it was close enough to show .223 holes and a 6"x12" target.  Lens is very wide angle of view.  I haven't "shot" a Canon camcorder yet!! :) :)
Joe

Maybe you need a super small steel target for protection  O0
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on January 29, 2019, 07:45:36 AM
Thanks to all who answered!

I've never used a spotting scope, so it is good to have advice from folks who have.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: eastman on January 29, 2019, 09:59:57 PM
I would probably hit a GoPro if it was close enough to show .223 holes and a 6"x12" target.  Lens is very wide angle of view.  I haven't "shot" a Canon camcorder yet!! :) :)
Joe

Maybe you need a super small steel target for protection  O0

Put a chronograph next to the GoPro to attract any stray bullets   ;D
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Ron M. on January 30, 2019, 06:29:51 PM
I would probably hit a GoPro if it was close enough to show .223 holes and a 6"x12" target.  Lens is very wide angle of view.  I haven't "shot" a Canon camcorder yet!! :) :)
Joe

Maybe you need a super small steel target for protection  O0

Put a chronograph next to the GoPro to attract any stray bullets   ;D

Been there, done that, said a lot of bad words.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Dasashooter on February 02, 2019, 09:56:49 PM
You are going to need a very high end spotting scope to see that smaller of hole at 300. Even then it can be iffy. Best option is camera or steel target. If those aren?t an option by the best you can afford but realistically you need to be up in the really good glass and large objective range likely at least the razor in the largest if not even higher end like meopta/swaro/hensoldt.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on February 04, 2019, 08:19:39 AM
Thanks to all who replied!  I really appreciate the input.

For now I am getting the Vortex Diamondback 20-60x80 scope.  B&H photo has it for $459 and it includes the a vortex tripod.

I borrowed a 20-60 scope this past weekend and it did OK, but was a cheaper scope.  I'd rather not fork out $1500+ for a great scope since it isn't something I'll be using a lot.  I'd rather use the "extra" money for other things - the 97B, ammo, bullets, powder, tires for the truck, etc.  I might look into the camera systems later.

Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: BG ARMORY on February 04, 2019, 08:40:17 PM
Leupold all the way. I've had no good experience with vortex optics
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on February 05, 2019, 07:46:33 AM
Leupold all the way. I've had no good experience with vortex optics

Could you please elaborate on both?

Why Leupold, what have you liked about them?  What models are you referring to and what about them is better than other scopes that you have tried?  Have you compared these to other brands besides Vortex?

"no good experience with vortex optics" - again,  please elaborate.  Just one of their models or several?  What types of optics have you had trouble with - rifle, spotting, binoculars?  What were the issues?  If possible, were you able to attempt to resolve the issues?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Phlyers13 on February 05, 2019, 01:05:47 PM
Aside from the Mark 4 which is way out of your budget, all Leupold spotters are made in China and are no better or worse than the Diamondback that you picked up. Plus Leupold is a royal pain in the neck when it comes to warranty work. Vortex is about as easy it it comes to deal with. And yes, you never need to use the Leupold warranty on their US made optics, but that?s not the case with their cheaper spotters.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on February 06, 2019, 08:50:37 AM
Got the Diamondback yesterday.

The eye relief seems to be a bit less than the one I looked through when checking various ones out.  Not sure if the one I looked through is an older version or not.

Other than that will be fine for what I need.  Was able to read the license plate on a truck that was about 550 yards away.

The vortex tripod that came with it (Summit SS-P ) isn't as steady as I'd like it to be - for the max power of the scope.  But it should do for what I need.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Phlyers13 on February 06, 2019, 11:05:39 AM
Manfrotto makes some really nice tripods at a decent price. I got one with the adjustable ball head and it?s awesome. Really well made and sturdy. And easy to make small adjustments without losing your target.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on February 08, 2019, 07:58:08 AM
Thanks.  Started looking at them and then found one in the scrap pile at work.  A nice Bogen with a nice fluid filled head.  No idea why it was scrapped.  It needs one clip for a leg (already sourced for $3) and it needs the quick release adapter (already sourced for $17).  Looks like they are selling used on E-Greed for about 150.  So, I scored!

Definitely not something I'd want to backpack with!  But for the range it is more than awesome!
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: eastman on February 09, 2019, 08:42:32 PM
Thanks.  Started looking at them and then found one in the scrap pile at work.  A nice Bogen with a nice fluid filled head.  No idea why it was scrapped.  It needs one clip for a leg (already sourced for $3) and it needs the quick release adapter (already sourced for $17).  Looks like they are selling used on E-Greed for about 150.  So, I scored!

Definitely not something I'd want to backpack with!  But for the range it is more than awesome!

"Bogen" used to be the name put on the Manfrotto gear imported into the USA. So if you found an Italian-made "Bogen" it is a high quality item.
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: BG ARMORY on February 10, 2019, 05:11:09 PM
Leupold all the way. I've had no good experience with vortex optics

Could you please elaborate on both?

Why Leupold, what have you liked about them?  What models are you referring to and what about them is better than other scopes that you have tried?  Have you compared these to other brands besides Vortex?

"no good experience with vortex optics" - again,  please elaborate.  Just one of their models or several?  What types of optics have you had trouble with - rifle, spotting, binoculars?  What were the issues?  If possible, were you able to attempt to resolve the issues?

Thanks!

Vortex strike fire could shake the rifle by hand and optic would turn itself on and off. Warranty replacement. Ditched it for Trijicon MRO

Vortex  Viper PST 1st scope, glass was hazy. like they didn't polish the glass left compound on it, or didnt purge the tube properly, they replaced it. second scope would not retain zero or track. I could shoot a string of rounds and watch the rounds walk off my point of aim. sent back for warranty. They "fixed" that issue but turrets dont track. I move it 1 moa, it moves what ever it decides to move. I tried to do the box test to see if it was working right. move it 2 moa right 2 moa down 2 moa left 2 moa up. should return back to zero. Wasnt even close on any of the movements.

They are a joke to most of the industry guys, they have to warranty their stuff because if they didn't they would go out of business because no one would buy them.

4 leupold scopes, never had to send one for a warranty.

vk3i lrp, 2 rifleman, and a mark ar
Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on February 11, 2019, 09:34:08 AM
BG - Thanks!

eastman - good to know.  It says it was made in Italy.

Title: Re: Spotting scope - what is a good one to see .223 holes in a target at 300 yards?
Post by: eastman on February 11, 2019, 10:02:05 PM
eastman - good to know.  It says it was made in Italy.

then you got a good one. Even the used price you saw on evilBay is reasonable for the quality and durability of the Italian-made Manfrotto. I have a couple of the Italian-made items, but unfortunately newer Manfrotto stuff is made in China.