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CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols, the new wave => Topic started by: Claymore504 on March 19, 2019, 08:53:15 AM

Title: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: Claymore504 on March 19, 2019, 08:53:15 AM
Took my P09 UG SR to the range a few weeks back along with a Beretta 92A1, Brand new P01 UG SR and P320 Full size TacOps.

The P09 has some CGW parts which are:

61050 Extended Firing Pin
HS-18 Hammer Spring
61100 Firing Pin Retaining
RP-TRS Reduced Power Trigger Return Spring

I was firing Sellier & Bellot 9mm 115gr FMJ and had 4 failures to fire. Not sure if it matters, but it was always near the end of a mag and on a SA pull. All rounds fired after loading and firing again. I had no malfunctions like this on any of the other handguns I brought. The CZ P01 is all stock and so is the P320. The Beretta 92A1 has a Beretta D spring and Beretta elite hammer installed.

I really have not used S&B ammo in many years. Is it known to cause flaures to fire sometimes? I am hoping the P09 is not having issues and it was the ammo. The P09 has about 500 rounds through it and the CGW parts were installed when it was new.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: Grendel on March 19, 2019, 08:54:58 AM
Try different ammunition.
Title: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: seebee62 on March 19, 2019, 09:32:59 AM
Over  the past few months I?ve shot 2000 rounds of S&B in a stock P07 a P320, P10C and M&P 2.0 Compact and a Sig 1911 Tacops 9mm. Not one malfunction of any kind.  All guns are stock except for Sights on the M&P

Definitely try different ammo to see if you can reproduce the malfunctions and maybe try 100 rounds of S&B to see if happens again.

I had 2 rounds of Hornady CD failure to fire in my P07 during a range trip that wouldn?t fire in any gun. 2 rounds out of 80. I chalked it up to being duds.

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Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: StuckonGlocks21 on March 19, 2019, 01:41:25 PM
You said you had a CGW hammer spring. If this spring is weaker than stock, that?s your problem I think. If not, check the other non stock parts for issues.
Any time I run non stock parts, lots of testing is needed to ensure reliability. With a weaker hammer spring you?ll have to carefully pick the ammo it will reliability fire.


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Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: briang2ad on March 19, 2019, 02:24:26 PM
Know this - SOME P guns will run hard primers with CGW springs and parts while others not as well..

Most of my Pguns will run Wolf with no problem.  One has some trouble (about 1 round in 100).

But this is with the 15 LB spring.  The 18 LBer should light everything, but some may have trouble.  The frame to slide dimensions may be 'off'. Talk to CGW. 
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: WWG1WGA on March 19, 2019, 02:24:53 PM
OP - In your list of parts, I didn't see a reduced-power firing pin spring. That may be your culprit.

CGW lists that spring as a "must" if you're going to fiddle with the hammer springs.

https://cajungunworks.com/product/97041-cgw-reduced-power-p-0709shadowcz97-firing-pin-spring/

If you decide to buy it, get the reduced power safety plunger spring and follow the great threads on this site to polish up the internals. Game changer.

I ALMOST sold my P-09 until I 'dolled it up'. Now it's my favorite 9mm.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: briang2ad on March 19, 2019, 02:29:01 PM
Quote
OP - In your list of parts, I didn't see a reduced-power firing pin spring. That may be your culprit. 
  YES!! This MAY be part of it. It may be all of it.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on March 19, 2019, 06:53:21 PM
Quote
OP - In your list of parts, I didn't see a reduced-power firing pin spring. That may be your culprit. 
  YES!! This MAY be part of it. It may be all of it.
As I recall the CGW extended firing pin comes with the spring.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: briang2ad on March 19, 2019, 09:09:54 PM
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61050-perfection-series-firing/

True.  Unless he did not use that spring.

So back to my original point. Basically,  every P gun is it?s own animal. Some have no problem lighting all kinds of primers with a 15 pound spring and some evidently may have trouble even with an 18 pound spring.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: flattusmaximus78 on March 19, 2019, 09:15:52 PM
Same gun w/15lb hammer spring and none of the other necessary springs associated with it. Don?t shoot a lot of S&B but I have before and it works.

It will set off anything. I?m scared to put the other springs in and mess with it.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: CCWLearner on March 19, 2019, 09:57:20 PM
I am running two P-07's with:

stock firing pins
CGW 15 lb hammer springs
CGW reduced FP return springs
CGW reduced FPB springs
CGW hammers

I never get a light strike on any ammo.  I don't shoot Wolf or other cheap Russian ammo, but I do shoot S&B.  I actually use S&B ammo to test for light strikes if I make a change to them, because I've been able to reproduce light strikes in other pistols with it, but not with these P-07's as they are currently set up.

The only time I have had an issue with light strikes in either of my P-07's was when I over-polished a FPB plunger and screwed up the geometry of it.  I was also running the CGW short reset kit and extended firing pin at the time.  It was happening rarely, but with multiple types of ammo.  I had them with both the 15 lb and 18 lb CGW hammer springs before I figured out that I had removed too much metal from my FPB plunger and replaced it with a spare I was keeping handy.  Never had that problem again.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: IronicTwitch on March 19, 2019, 10:10:47 PM
I didn't read all the posts above, but curious if there are still indentations on the primers that didn't ignite?

If not, look into the OD roller from CGW.  Or a stock fpb like mentioned in the prior post.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on March 20, 2019, 05:08:53 AM
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61050-perfection-series-firing/

True.  Unless he did not use that spring.

So back to my original point. Basically,  every P gun is it?s own animal. Some have no problem lighting all kinds of primers with a 15 pound spring and some evidently may have trouble even with an 18 pound spring.

Every gun can be it's own animal brand or model not withstanding.  I ran my particular P-07 with the 18lb hammer spring and the stock FP and FP spring for well over 6k rounds before upgrading with the SRS kit. Never had a failure of any kind in either configuration.
I've always wondered if the hammer spring is under the same tension in the P-09 vs the P-07 given the longer grip on the P-09.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: Tyerone on March 20, 2019, 06:46:07 AM
Dang.  With that heavy of a hammer spring and extended firing pin I'd beworried about piercing primers, not light strikes.  Not the P series, but S&B has been good stuff, bothe 115 and my fav 124 gr.  My PCR, Matte Stainless, and Canik P120 each have the 3 spring kit and stock firing pin.

Check for obstruction in FP channel, or broken tip of firing pin?
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: miller_man on March 20, 2019, 06:49:20 AM
CGW trs, firing pin + spring, and 1 with 15lb hammer spring, 1 with 18lb hammer spring - both p-09s with combined 4-5k rounds of S&B. S&B has been some of the most clean and consistent factory ammo I've found. Only ever had light strikes with a factory hammer spring that was cut down some. Never any problems with that ammo after CGW hammer springs installed.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: Claymore504 on March 20, 2019, 07:44:59 AM
Thanks for all the great replies. To answer a few questions that I see, yes the CGW firing pin came with the spring and I used it. Also, the primers had excellent marks on them on the cases that did not fire the first time.

Among the parts I listed I did follow the sticky on here for polishing and the trigger on this P09 turned out great! I actually did the same mods to my P07 and the trigger is not as good.

I only have about 500 rounds through the P09 so far. I have a couple other brands of ammo, so I will grab some of each and some more S&B and see if I can get it to happen again.

Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on March 20, 2019, 08:05:30 AM
I think I'd explore the defective ammo possibility at this point before I started altering the gun. Factory ammo can be defective just like handloads. There is a possibility that the primers in the failed rounds were not seated fully from the factory and subsequently fired on the second strike.
Just to be sure I'd ensure the gun is clean and the fp is moving feely.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: MarilynMonbro on March 20, 2019, 09:34:26 AM
When I load S&B primers I occasionally get light strikes too.  I probably got 3 light strikes out of 150 rounds when it first happened. I've designated then training primers and use Winchesters for my match ammo now. With the S&B's I just pull the trigger again and they go off.

My P09 has extended firing pin and spring and 12lb hammer spring. It happens with the 15lb spring too, but it didn't happen with the 18lb. I think those primers are just a little hard.

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Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: briang2ad on March 21, 2019, 11:22:47 AM
I've talked to CGW about this also - some guns will run all ammo with a reduced spring, and some will not based on slide/frame fit, etc. 

I DO THINK the 18 LB spring should light all, but again, every gun is different. 
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: Hamilton99 on April 01, 2019, 03:20:20 AM
I have a 13lbs hammer spring with -15% firing pin spring and I don`t have any failures on Sellier Bellot ammo (115 and 125grs), all parts from Eemann - I used about 2500 rounds.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: rgunner1 on April 10, 2019, 01:47:25 AM
I run a 10lb hammer spring with a full CGW kit installed in my P09 with a optic cut, I only use it for Comp's and run S&B Primers in club and practice loads and Federal SPP in my match ammo so far no issues and good reliable ignition on both brands and upwards of 3.5k through it, great and very accurate platform.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: DOC 1500 on April 10, 2019, 07:21:05 AM
As mentioned above, using 1500 grit sandpaper lightly rub the areas where the slide and frame touch each other when done wipe down and apply a little bit of moly grease.  Ben Rector slide numerous times by hand.
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: briang2ad on April 10, 2019, 07:58:32 AM
As mentioned above, using 1500 grit sandpaper lightly rub the areas where the slide and frame touch each other when done wipe down and apply a little bit of moly grease.  Ben Rector slide numerous times by hand.

Doc:  What does this do for ignition of hard primers? 
Title: Re: CZ P09 Failures to Fire. Ammo?
Post by: badwrench on April 10, 2019, 12:07:11 PM
I think I'd explore the defective ammo possibility at this point before I started altering the gun. Factory ammo can be defective just like handloads. There is a possibility that the primers in the failed rounds were not seated fully from the factory and subsequently fired on the second strike.
Just to be sure I'd ensure the gun is clean and the fp is moving feely.


I think this is possible, if the primer was'nt fully seated at the factory, and left a little "high" that could've very well been the problem. My own experience when loadind 9mm on my then new Dillon 650, I'd get alot of high primers, until I bought a strong mount, which raises the machine about 8-10" off the bench , and you have to stand to run the machine, this also allows you to get more leverage when pushing the operating lever up, and, as a result, my high primer problem dissapeared..