The Original CZ Forum

CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZF KADET KLUB => Topic started by: joerchi69 on June 07, 2019, 09:05:11 AM

Title: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on June 07, 2019, 09:05:11 AM

 light strikes


For all interested in curing light strikes i fit in a blue tinted résumé here, right in the beginning, out of the following 11 pages.

Of the current measures i took on my Kadet 2 conversion kit on a SP-01 Shadow frame. Also i was heading
 to get it working with the CCI SV. Every gun is a law unto itself it is said. On your gun something else could be the cause. All hints where given by or found in the Kadet Klub forum:

-  Because i adjusted my (self installed SA) trigger set screw in a too tight way, the movement of the trigger was to little for its entire task : To lift the sear enough to get it completely over - and out of the way of the second (half cock) notch. The gunsmith opened the little hex grub screw about one to two turns. And the hammer is freely moving down. Before he was delayed on the way down to hit the firing pin. That´s reduced it`s force hitting the FP.

- Hammer- / mainspring. I am using a 17 lb or stronger one. Standard is 18-20 lb.
I think the kadet conversion kit was made for working with the factory hs. With standard velocity ammo, i use CCI SV, it could be helpfull to go down to 17 lb to avoid other issues. Like slide not staying open on the last round. Ammo not getting striped from the mag into the chamber. Maybe stove pipes.

- I cut down the recoil spring to 92 mm/ 3.62 inches.

- Improvements to make the slide gliding well. Looking for places, springs, parts connected with the movement of the slide. My FP retaining plate was scratching on the upper. The magazine follower was disturbed by a to long edge of the slide stop. The slide stop spring was to ease too. The shadow 1 hammer corner hook up/ rattled when passing the firing pin retaining plate.

- Shortened or lighter firing pin spring, ball pen spring. Not all fit in. If it is too light in tension the FP retaining plate and the FP get ejected while shooting.

- Reshaped firing pin. FP4 is my favorite in the moment. Kept the wideness to cover priming area but avoid hitting the pure brass rim area. Thank you painter.

- Straight FP. Once i found a bend FP in the FP channel. Searching for light strikes. Probably happend when polishing it in a drill press..

- Absolutely no residues of oil or lube around the FP area, in the channel, under the FP retaining plate or on areas from where it could get moved close to the FP assembly. Not leaving superfluous lube on the rails. It possibly gets translatory motioned under the firing pin retaining plate. And then gets pumped into the FP channel too. Where it affects the movement of the FP. Thank you painter.

- A gunsmith checked and maybe reduced the headspace.

- Examine if hammer hits upper part = slide housing of Kadet. Thank you Andres B

- Keeping the contact area from slide to barrel face clean

I also did two brief summarys for light strike issues and ammo related ideas found here in the kadet forum:
 https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=106393.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=106393.0)
 https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=106246.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=106246.0)

Regular start of the thread:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Kadets,

 just got the stove pipe theme solved with the help of this forums members by filing the angles to the ejector.
( https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=7863.90 ). No stovies anymore - and i tried different sorts of ammo. happy!
My not anymore german Club30 Berlin gunsmith where i bought the Kadet conversion kit in combination with the CZ SP-01 Shadow (1), failed to fix it twice, then finally blamed me for a false use of the handgun.

But my CZ kadet knows my interest in understanding an solving problems. So she now surprisingly offers me now lots of light strikes to dive into the further understanding of her complexity. And to keep me on reading in this superb forum. Wich is more effective than a Berlin weapons master shop.

For curing the stove pipes, before tuning the extractor, i recognised a movement in the extractor claw in the last moment when delivering the ammo going into the end of slot into firing position. It had contact with the slot and started pivoting out. So i deepend the slot as mentioned in the shares, a little by polishing bit by bit until the extractor fitted exactly into. The extractor claw is quite new and has a good grip of the brass rim.

The firing pin spring and the main/hammer spring is all original, so should clearly have the minimum force of the recomended 17 lbs, plus. And i always store the gun nicely cleaned after shooting it. Including breech face and checking the firing pin channel. The FP is moving freely in its channel. On the rails i use thin oil as adviced.

Using CCI Blazer i got lots of ignition fails. Like 25 on 100 yesterday. Also missfires with the standard CCI. The second strike mostly does it. But some of the ammo is not working at all : Thats how the not firing ammo looks like after 5 strikes, delaborated and then taking the pic of the case (it`s not the kadet magazin but a 1911, which the shell is leaned on ).

 Do you think it is a too light strike impact or an other issue ?

(https://i.imgur.com/TXiGE2e.jpg)


Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on June 07, 2019, 09:52:50 AM
Extractor and breechface from above
(https://i.imgur.com/B7C8bcm.jpg)
and upside down
(https://i.imgur.com/XCkqRVj.jpg)



Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on June 07, 2019, 10:03:41 AM
firing pin and spring


(https://i.imgur.com/4syebzW.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on June 07, 2019, 10:05:34 AM
FP from other side

(https://i.imgur.com/bndFb4Z.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: shootingsight on June 07, 2019, 11:13:35 AM
Tough to see in your picture, but look for bright shiny spots on the firing pin, indicating it is bumping on something.  partially hitting an edge somewhere can rob a lot of energy from the strike.

Also look at the face of the chamber.  If someone dry fired this gun without a cartridge, the firing pin might be impacting the edge of the chamber where the rim sits, preventing it from seating properly.

Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on June 09, 2019, 06:05:54 AM
Tough to see in your picture, but look for bright shiny spots on the firing pin, indicating it is bumping on something.  partially hitting an edge somewhere can rob a lot of energy from the strike.

Also look at the face of the chamber.  If someone dry fired this gun without a cartridge, the firing pin might be impacting the edge of the chamber where the rim sits, preventing it from seating properly.

Hello,
thanks for giving your advices.
Now checked the FP for shiny spots but there are none. On the chamber no marks or hits. That brought me to check the maximum possible FP travel. Removed the spring and pressed the pin to take the picture. Seems just right - just cant hit the chamber:
 (https://i.imgur.com/io0ZtpZ.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:24 AM
Thanks to this forums postings i found a lot of concrete examples to mostly bann the light strikes. I am using CCI sv. For testing i use other ammo too, like Blazer, if it runs with this (brass stronger ?), the gun works with the CCI sv anyway.
The last thing i did was adding a spacer under the hammer spring for a higher priming speed. That did the trick.Plus may be the other stuff i did aply before. The hight of the spacer is 2mm = 0,08 inch. As an first experiment. A little bit more an the hammer will not cock. But i will try to reduce it step by step. Because now i had failiures to feed and the slide did not always stayed open on the last round. Like one on fifty.
The other actions i took before where :

- made sure the slide travels fine
- cuting of windings of the firing pin spring (about 6)
- tryed to clean (maybe polish) the firing pin channel (with polish paste and a Q-tip in a power screwdriver)
- checked the firing pin on a straightening plate and on a lathe for straightness
- reduced the shoulders of the firing pin for more travel (just without touching the chamber)
- polished and smoothend the firing pin for gliding travel
- polished the firing pin spring
- cleaned the slot in the barrel for the extraction claw

Picture of the provisional spacer - blue plastic ring
(https://i.imgur.com/2DqvtAq.jpg)
 

Title: Re: light strikes
Post by: joerchi69 on July 15, 2019, 12:33:54 PM
I reduced the spacer to 1,6mm = 0.629 inch. Testing and telling the results is possible in some weeks.
I received some spare parts for the CZ 75 and for the Kadet conversion kit. When checking the old modified firing pin (reduced the shoulders on the lathe) against the new FP (out of the box) i was surprised with the same measuring.The angle of photographing is not correct to read the measurement on the metric calliper. The width of the shoulders as shown in the pic is 3.25mm = 0.1279527559 on both FP`s.
You can also see a new original and the reduced length of the firing pin spring.
(https://i.imgur.com/MA7rh8V.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: adrian on July 17, 2019, 01:51:06 PM
     Hiya and thanks for your thread. It appears that you were able to troubleshoot your way to solving the issues with the Kadet kit. Glad that some of the forums old threads could point you in proper directions to look for issues. Enjoy and be well.
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on August 05, 2019, 07:38:52 AM
Shot the kadet with the reduced spacer yesterday. I narrowed it from 2mm down to 1,6 mm.

With the 2mm spacer under the hammerspring where no light strikes or other issues with the cci standard (100 shots) but with theGECO ammo have been some issues. The cartride has not been loaded 2 out of 50 shots. And one light strike on 50. So i tryed the reduced spacer to 1,6mm but then the trouble started again even with the cci standard. On 40 shots i had 6 nobang. 1 of it the round was not delivered to the chamber. 1 time the slide stayed not open on the last shot. On the next 50 rounds where 3 light strikes and one failiure to load. All light strikes went of with the second try.
I think i have more research to do.
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on August 05, 2019, 07:53:17 AM
Another small parcel of www.cz-spare.parts arrived.
I orderd some springs for testing. Also the original CZ75 hammerspring and a 16 lbs Shadow 1 spring.
It turned out that the hammerspring my CZ 75 SP-01 Pistol contained all the time is like that one classified for :
CZ 75 BCZ 75 SP-01 ShadowCZ 97 BCZ 97 BDCZ 75 TS ORANGECZ 75 TS CZECHMATECZ 75 TACTICAL SPORTSCZ 75 B OMEGA

https://www.cz-spare.parts/main-spring
edit:
"your question about the force of the spring 315817032002 .. in assembled condition 16,6 lbs and maximal operating 20,2 lbs."

(https://i.imgur.com/LHDzrui.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on August 05, 2019, 07:56:29 AM
For comparison i orderd the 16 lbs shadow hammer/main spring too. Built in the cocking is much weaker. It is longer but weaker. So i built in the other, stronger one again.
(https://i.imgur.com/tJLJO60.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on August 05, 2019, 08:12:43 AM
The new built in 16 lbs mainspring showed 1,8 lbs on average, measured imrovised as shown near the end of the possible travelway of the hammer.

(https://i.imgur.com/yMrLGrE.jpg)


 
Title: Re: light strikes ? please comment pic
Post by: joerchi69 on August 05, 2019, 08:21:35 AM
The stronger spring has on average 2,7 lbs in the same position. Stronger, so i keep this. Much more than a 2mm (0,08 inch/ zoll)  spacer is in this case mechanically not possible. The compression of the spring is nearly completed when cocked. Keep on playing around with the width of the spacers and other components.
Maybe i try to get somewhere, the forum mentioned, even stronger Wolff springs for the CZ too.

(https://i.imgur.com/anXWbfO.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 08, 2019, 12:52:48 PM
With a spacer of 1.9 mm = 0.0748 inches under the 20lbs hammerspring, 135 CCI standard worked in the kadet without any malfunctions. Cleaned it. Shot some 9mm then went back to the Kadet upper. With Geco Semi-Auto then i had have 4 light strikes of a box of 50. All 4 went off on the second time with just cocking the hammer and firing again. With 30 no name ammo i had 4 light strikes wich also did it with the second strike. With all ammo today no failiures to feed and the slide stayed open on the last shot of the magazine.

Geco light strike: Impact not perpendicular on this case, will try a new FP retaining plate. Modified the current FP 1 to have the possibility to turn the FP 180 degree for an other hit area on the rim.

(https://i.imgur.com/zdiqMm5.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: DenStinett on August 09, 2019, 08:59:51 PM
It's tough to get a feel for the Pics, so I hope you don't mind that I resized them to fit the frame:

(https://i.imgur.com/TXiGE2e.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/B7C8bcm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XCkqRVj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/4syebzW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/bndFb4Z.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/io0ZtpZ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/2DqvtAq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MA7rh8V.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/LHDzrui.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/tJLJO60.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/yMrLGrE.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/anXWbfO.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zdiqMm5.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 16, 2019, 04:36:20 AM
It's tough to get a feel for the Pics, so I hope you don't mind that I resized them to fit the frame:

Thanks a lot Den! Way better.

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 16, 2019, 04:37:39 AM
Yesterday i tested a brandnew FP and FPstop in the kadet. To compare it to my old worked over one. I let the shortened FPspring in. The results were the same as with my worked over FP, with the leathe shortened shoulders, who turned out to be in the same size as the newly orderd FP. The new FPstop is clearly better manufactured on the hammer side, then the original.
A box of CCI standard went throug with no problems. The box Geco semi auto had 2 non feedings, 4 light strikes and one stove pipe. Glad for having one ammo working fine, now i would like the system to function with other sorts of ammo too. Not with all, but a few more. Also to ensure it is working all the time with the CCI standard. And to have options to try out new ammo too. With the 9mm upper the shadow1 was reliable as ever.


(https://i.imgur.com/BKWT78I.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/IqUcUIZ.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/b72leTh.jpg?1)

Left FP modified on hammer end for 180 degree turn around, to test other impact point
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 16, 2019, 06:01:16 AM
It's tough to get a feel for the Pics, so I hope you don't mind that I resized them to fit the frame:

Found the auto resize function on imgur then because of your hint. Will use 1280x1024 (for 19 inch monitor) for perceptibility.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 18, 2019, 11:53:50 AM
This shooting day i repeatet the test with the new FP and FPstop in the kadet. To compare it to my old worked over one. I let the shortened FPspring in.
Of two units of 50 the first Blazer package worked fine, the second had four light strikes. With the following 2 boxes CCI SV (each 50) the first one went fine. With the second carton CCI SV surprisingly i got with one box 3 FTfire and one time slide not opening on the last shot. Some days ago the CCI SV worked without hickups. All FTfire hit the target with the following hammer fall.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 22, 2019, 03:04:47 PM
Changed back to my old and worked over firing pin (polished and shoulders reduced a bit) and stop.100 shots of CCI sv went of with no probs this afternoon (3 ftf last time). One failiure to feed and two light strikes with fifty CCI Blazer. The placement of the strike is fine i hope. The impact on the rimfire cases looks not too smashing. I will work on this.

(https://i.imgur.com/Op5ps2A.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 29, 2019, 07:01:49 AM
The original excess length of the original FP. Its about 0,35mm = 0.0138 inches. Its the same on my old and a new FP i ordered. To have the end longer sticking out for may be quickening the FP when hit by the hammer, i will shorten the rear shoulder stop on both. And test it with Blazer and CCI sv.

original excess length of the original FP. about 0,35mm = 0.0138 inches
(https://i.imgur.com/ddWqhLg.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 29, 2019, 04:32:11 PM
In the morning i worked the FP1 and FP2 over in the lathe at Herberts (90) workshop.
FP1 now shows a excess length of 1,17mm = 0.0460 inch. This afternoon i tested it.
130 shots of Blazers went of in a row as they should. In the next 50 i had 3 missfires. I cleaned the breech face a little with a toothpic and went on with a pack of CCI SV wich went nearly fine. Singly the slide failed one time to stay open on the last round. In the next pack then 3 missfires. Maybe my Kadet needs cleaning earlyer in this stage of development. FP2 i will test next time.

FP1                                                                        FP2
excess length          1,17mm =   0.0460 inches              0,75mm =  0.02952 inches
shoulder to shoulder  2,659mm = 0.10468 inches            3,015mm=  0.11870
rear shoulder to end  4,1mm =    0.1614 inches              3,7mm =    0.14566
over all length          58,25  =    2.29330inches              58,35  =    2.2972

FP3 is a new untouched one, waiting for starting at zero  ::)

(conversion mm to inches with:   https://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm )


FP1 length above firing stop 1,17mm =   0.0460 inches       
(https://i.imgur.com/GeJMRmf.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 29, 2019, 04:37:03 PM
FP2 length above firing stop 0,75mm =  0.02952 inches
(https://i.imgur.com/zUtkPaJ.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 29, 2019, 05:01:16 PM
The three misfires from shot 130 to 180. Impact signiture changed to unsharp impression on two of the rims ?  :o
 - Or the depth of focus is more to the dirty breech face.  ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/aWhMc9h.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 29, 2019, 05:07:06 PM
Same FP1. Different impact sizes ? Obscure. A case of a missfire that went of on the second hit.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZxXV5xv.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 29, 2019, 05:13:36 PM
Comparing FP1 marks on Blazer (left) and CCI SV (right) rims.

(https://i.imgur.com/bkd5eUg.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 01, 2019, 01:57:26 PM
No fotos shot today but testet the above mentioned FP2 (length above firing stop 0,75mm =  0.02952 inches).
So she rear shoulder is less shortened than on FP1. The front shoulder and everything else on the pin is original and new. It is just not hitting the barrel end with its chissel tip. The FP spring is the shortened one i used all the time.
 
I shot 4 cartons of 50 bullets. One and two hand grip. Clean pistol and FP channel. 20 lbs. HSpring plus the spacer for higher pre-load.
Started with the 50 Blazer. The slide stayed not open one time. 3 FTFire. In the next box of CCI sv 3 FTFire, 2 times slide failiure and a stove pipe. Same ammo third box, one closing slide on the last round again and 2 stove pipes. The fourth box Blazer 5 FTFire.

The strikes are still too light. The longer end through a shortened backstop shoulder is not helpfull. Thought of ordering the extra power hammer springs from wolff / gunsprings.com but then the slide maybe has even more to work against the hammer. And causes FTFire and may be more stove pipes. No stronger hammer spring or a thinner or no spacer would help the slide to work. The stovies are a little surprising because i expected them to be settled once and for all with the mod of the ejector, and confirmed with 2000 shots. My be the pre stressed HS is to blame.

Next check will be the new all original FP. Will not be surprised having FTfire and other issues.
But shooting the kadet is still fun and helping to cultivate my skills.  ::)

A prolonged FP with more over all length could be usefull. Designed to reach the brass earlyer but not to hit the barrel. Short enough not to activate the rim with a gun accidentially falling down on the hammer. That or the xtra power hammer springs are the next theorys to try to get a reliable kadet. Or another hammer. Because the shadow 1 hammer is possibly different (in weight) to the regular CZ 75 hammer ?




Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 01, 2019, 02:09:37 PM
Also possible i lose my patience to get it running fine. Then after all, it is the sufficient reason to purchase a complete stand-alone .22 lr of higher quality and flawless reliability.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 01, 2019, 03:37:32 PM
What weight hammer spring are you using, Joe?
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Bossgobbler on September 01, 2019, 04:53:13 PM
Have you tried to mill 0.030 off the face of the firing pin retainer where the hammer hits? Also, try to reshape the firing pin so it does not hit on the edge of the rim of the case.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 01, 2019, 05:15:01 PM
What weight hammer spring are you using, Joe?
In assembled condition 16,6 lbs and maximal operating 20,2 lbs. I was told by a spare parts seller in CZ country. So it is 20 lbs. plus an actual a spacer of 1,6mm = 0.629 inch to pre-load the hammerspring even more.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 01, 2019, 05:49:41 PM
Have you tried to mill 0.030 off the face of the firing pin retainer where the hammer hits? Also, try to reshape the firing pin so it does not hit on the edge of the rim of the case.

No i haven´t worked on the firing pin retainer until now. Thank you - that thougth is new to me. I will give that a trial. What would be the benefit to remove 0.030 inch (0.7619 mm) ? A longer track to move the firing pin by the hammer ?

I will put the reshaping of the FP tip on my trail and error list. I also guess that with growing dirt (around from shot 150 on) the case is not reaching its end positon on the breech face. Because there the residue is pushed together shot by shot by the upcoming bullets. Hence the hit area of the tip is smaler, and, more significant closer to the stiff part of the rim. And the inition rate of the weak punch drops. The pistol is having missfires anyway, also with a cleaned gun with dust-free FP channel and tidy breech face area in the first shots. So the reshaping of the FP tip to have the best impact point on the weakest spot on in the rim area with the igniton compound.

How much coils do you have left on your FP spring ?

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 01, 2019, 05:58:17 PM
WRT the reshaping...remove material on the opposite side that's already beveled. You want the strike about .010-.015 inside the edge of the case,. Keep in mind that all ammo has variances, so be conservative. The idea is to not waste energy on crushing the outside of the rim.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 02, 2019, 09:22:32 AM
WRT the reshaping...remove material on the opposite side that's already beveled. You want the strike about .010-.015 inside the edge of the case,. Keep in mind that all ammo has variances, so be conservative. The idea is to not waste energy on crushing the outside of the rim.

Thanks a lot. I surely will try this modification to avoid the strong, just brass rim area without priming compound in it, to be striked by the FP. To have more momentum on the softer part of the rim. I will report it here when tested.

When interpreting centerfire anvil priming the ignition compound is crushed between the anvil and the brass to explode.
https://rws-munition.de/en/rws-hunting-area/about-us/research-and-development/the-primer.html (https://rws-munition.de/en/rws-hunting-area/about-us/research-and-development/the-primer.html)
Transfering that to rimfire the ignition compound is crushed betwenn brass and brass. I´am not sure if the ignition compound really needs that sort of
"brass-anvil" to go off. But anyway the pics of the hitmarks i made are weak and to reinforce, compared to those imprints :
https://www.quora.com/How-do-rimfire-and-centerfire-rifles-differ (https://www.quora.com/How-do-rimfire-and-centerfire-rifles-differ)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 02, 2019, 10:18:34 AM
Another item to check...make sure the roll pin that retains the barrel has not broken. That would allow the barrel to move forward when the case gets struck by the pin. If you want to get a replacement beforehand, the size is 3 x 12 mm.

Pay attention to the orientation of the split in the pin. It matters.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: adrian on September 02, 2019, 10:31:18 AM
     Hiya and breaks my heart to have to see so many Kadet owners have to become machinists to make there .22LR go pop. Mine really only needed to have a 17pound main/hammer spring replace what ever was in there before and it went to less than 5percent light strike a range visit,using walmart federal ammo. Don't forget the smiths at cz-usa are avail if you call there during business hours. Be well.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 02, 2019, 10:33:42 AM
WRT the reshaping...remove material on the opposite side that's already beveled. You want the strike about .010-.015 inside the edge of the case,. Keep in mind that all ammo has variances, so be conservative. The idea is to not waste energy on crushing the outside of the rim.

Did. Pic shows left FP hit area reshaped and smaler to the original on the right side. Will report as soon as used.
Will learn czech folk songs and orisons to intonate while shooting  ::)

(https://i.imgur.com/FJt82gd.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 02, 2019, 10:40:23 AM
Another item to check...make sure the roll pin that retains the barrel has not broken. That would allow the barrel to move forward when the case gets struck by the pin. If you want to get a replacement beforehand, the size is 3 x 12 mm.

Pay attention to the orientation of the split in the pin. It matters.

Thank you. I´ve read that in some posts when fishing for ideas in the forum some weeks before. I checked it then and do frequent when cleaning.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 02, 2019, 10:44:17 AM
     Hiya and breaks my heart to have to see so many Kadet owners have to become machinists to make there .22LR go pop. Mine really only needed to have a 17pound main/hammer spring replace what ever was in there before and it went to less than 5percent light strike a range visit,using walmart federal ammo. Don't forget the smiths at cz-usa are avail if you call there during business hours. Be well.
It's somewhat puzzling why this kit is being so stubborn. Mine will run 100% with CCI SV, or Geco, for roughly 300 rounds and then need the feed ramp/breech face cleaned. All this with a 15 lb hammer spring.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 02, 2019, 11:18:52 AM
WRT the reshaping...remove material on the opposite side that's already beveled. You want the strike about .010-.015 inside the edge of the case,. Keep in mind that all ammo has variances, so be conservative. The idea is to not waste energy on crushing the outside of the rim.
The original FP i had modified (input from the forum) to turn it 180 degrees but trying it out it for a short time showed a much worse ignition rate. But i believe it was just to much away from the rim or something else did not work. Maybe the FP was bent. Regret having no pics of the dents in the brass to show.


Because of your post i found that telling site:
You can clearly see if you are hitting way out on the rim, you are hitting folded brass, diminishing the power of the strike.
This is what target shooters do to their firing pins to get more reliable ignition:


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1059114 (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1059114)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 02, 2019, 11:20:49 AM
Have you tried to mill 0.030 off the face of the firing pin retainer where the hammer hits? Also, try to reshape the firing pin so it does not hit on the edge of the rim of the case.

Do you mean to remove the material of the complete surface of the FP retaining plate ?
Or just the area where the hammer hits, and not in the slot-areas where the plate is hold in the slide ?
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 02, 2019, 11:52:11 AM
WRT the reshaping...remove material on the opposite side that's already beveled. You want the strike about .010-.015 inside the edge of the case,. Keep in mind that all ammo has variances, so be conservative. The idea is to not waste energy on crushing the outside of the rim.
The original FP i had modified (input from the forum) to turn it 180 degrees but trying it out it for a short time showed a much worse ignition rate. But i believe it was just to much away from the rim or something else did not work. Maybe the FP was bent. Regret having no pics of the dents in the brass to show.


Because of your post i found that telling site:
You can clearly see if you are hitting way out on the rim, you are hitting folded brass, diminishing the power of the strike.
This is what target shooters do to their firing pins to get more reliable ignition:


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1059114 (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1059114)
Those pics will show you what you're looking for. Make sure you soften the edges whereever you file away material. You don't want to pierce the cases.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 05, 2019, 02:56:04 PM
Softened the corners at the reshaped to smaler hit areas on the two modified FP`s and went testing today. That is the
new imprint (FP 2 on CCI sv) :

(https://i.imgur.com/ilQVaVV.jpg)

The hit area on the two modified FP´s could get shrinked down a little bit more and away from the strong rim ?

50 CCI sv and no ftfire, but two times the slide did not deliver a new round. One time he did also not stay open on the last round. Next pack 50 Blazers with one ftfire and on time slide not delivering the next round.
Changed to FP1 and finished a box of CCI sv with two ftfire and two slide delivering ammo errors.

Breech face after 150 rounds

(https://i.imgur.com/UQrEy5o.jpg)

I had checked the cleaned chamber at home. A live round just droped in by its weight. Now after 150 shots i checked it again and there was a certain hesitation to go in the last bit. Not much, but a little resistance on the last milimeters.. I cleaned the chamber and the breach face. The round went in without any drag.
Went on with the fourth box, 50 CCI sv again. One ftfire, missing two rounds in the chamber by slide (mag) failiure after the shot, one emty case was not extracted of the chamber and one stove pipe.
The next 50 Blazers went with just two ftfire in the black part of the target 25 meters away. Forgot to put on my shooting glases, and was positively surprised with a nice grouping with my regular glases  ::)

Some conclusions:
The hit area on the two modified FP´s could get shrinked down a little bit more away from the rim ?
Because of the slide failures i assume the spacer under the hammer spring beeing to high. I will check the two modified FP`s just with the regular hammerspring and remove the spacer or thin it down a little bit more.
Extra power wolff gunsprings hammer springs are on the long way from the US to overseas.
I run a SA trigger. To put in the original DA trigger could be a thing to try.
A self made over all little bit longer and may be heavier FP is on my wish list.  Will see if i need to realise it.
To read up on how measuring the headspace an what are the right data could be a path to go too.

New hit marks on Blazer ammo

(https://i.imgur.com/M2K9Mh0.jpg)

Most ftfires went on the second strike but that Blazer needed some arm (-ed) twisting

(https://i.imgur.com/azdbtqH.jpg)



Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 07, 2019, 03:43:43 PM
Checking the CZ for missing hammer striking power i was remembering a thread here where someone wrote to check the hammer on hitting the slide before the FP. He did not. But there was some repeatable irritation in the way of the hammer down. I pulled the hammer back on its rest means cocking position, held it with the thumb, pulled the trigger and holding it back. Then when lowering the hammer slowly down in the last fifth of the travel there was a little stoppage. Like he was going over something. First i found rubbing marks on the side of the hammer but it did not explain that click in and click out on the final move to the end position. It was the "disasembly rest" for the hammer wich locks somehow in and out on the "trigger related component who holds or loosens the hammer". = sear

Hammer cocked, toothpick on the (dont know the right expression) "disasembly rest" = half cock notch
(https://i.imgur.com/JbNH1eF.jpg)

Toothpicks on the lock up in and out parts, rattling on the hammer in the end of the movement to the FP

(https://i.imgur.com/44HJQrg.jpg)



Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 07, 2019, 04:02:28 PM
Light stress marks on one hammer side. Could not feel any rubbing when attending the hammer down by thumb. So i concentrate on the other issues to add power to the strike.

(https://i.imgur.com/SN8Uzat.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 07, 2019, 04:26:16 PM
It's somewhat puzzling why this kit is being so stubborn. Mine will run 100% with CCI SV, or Geco, for roughly 300 rounds and then need the feed ramp/breech face cleaned. All this with a 15 lb hammer spring.

That is exactly what i like to reach, too   ::)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 07, 2019, 04:47:53 PM
WRT the reshaping...remove material on the opposite side that's already beveled. You want the strike about .010-.015 inside the edge of the case,. Keep in mind that all ammo has variances, so be conservative. The idea is to not waste energy on crushing the outside of the rim.
The original FP i had modified (input from the forum) to turn it 180 degrees but trying it out it for a short time showed a much worse ignition rate. But i believe it was just to much away from the rim or something else did not work. Maybe the FP was bent. Regret having no pics of the dents in the brass to show.


Because of your post i found that telling site:
You can clearly see if you are hitting way out on the rim, you are hitting folded brass, diminishing the power of the strike.This is what target shooters do to their firing pins to get more reliable ignition:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1059114 (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1059114)

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545484 (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545484)

 A wide variety of 22 ammunition sectioned , photographed, and shared.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 08, 2019, 10:33:32 AM
Amused myself with practice shooting this rainy sunday gunday. 350 shots of three types of ammo. CCI sv i know pretty much. The other two where new to me. Let the first paper target hang until the end of the session. Just added a new one on top of it, from time to time, for better hit identification.
150 CCI Standard, the first 100 just 5 slide issues, no round delivered or stayed not open on the last rd (1). Probably just the spacer- reinforced 20 lbs hammerspring beeing to strong for some CCI standard velocity. The 2 light strikes came in the shots 100 to 150. Checked the drop in of a live round in the chamber. Not free falling like when freshly cleaned. So i scrubbed it. Ammo droped in like magnetic again.
100 shots of CCI Slect followed flawless into the black hole where the ammo gets lost. Imaging myself a better accuracy than other ammo.
100 shots of CCI Mag followed without cleaning but with just one ftfire, around no. 170.

350 shots 25 meters two handed
(https://i.imgur.com/52B4O4B.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 08, 2019, 10:56:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aDnbt2o.jpg)

Rimpressions of the above mentioned 350 shots. FP2 modified to avoid the massive brass area of the rim. Could move a very little more away and to the inside ?

Dents top down.
CCI sv            0-50     4 slide errors= ftfeed
CCI sv          51-100    1 slide error
CCI sv        101-150    1 slide, 2 ftfire
CCI Select   151-250    as it should be (cleaned chamber and breech face beforehand)
CCI MiniMag 251-350    1ftfire

Target-setting will be now, to get rid of the "stop and go" - rattling down hammer. It is prior to fixing that. Than testing the original FP with a free moving hammer and different ammo. Then maybe testing modified FPs again.

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 09, 2019, 01:20:57 PM
Luckily this was an easy to fix one. My local gunsmith kindly showed me the cause-and-effect chain. Because i adjusted my (self installed SA) trigger set screw in a too tight way, the movement of the trigger was to little for its entire task : To lift the sear enough to get it completely over - and out of the way of the second (half cock) notch. He just opened the little hex grub screw about one to two turns. And the hammer is freely moving down. Will see if this nullify the ftfire with the .22 ammo.

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1taTIi.jpg)

The hammer (left) i took out some months later in july 2020. The toothpick is pointing on the half cock notch / disassembly notch. Right: Tactical Sports hammer to compare size and wight.
(https://i.imgur.com/zyI6531.jpg)

Damage can be seen where the sear rattled over the second notch and took away some hammer force on the way to the firing pin.
(https://i.imgur.com/Jn0kzl5.jpg)







Adustment of the over travel screw due to that description :

https://czcustom.com/knowledge-base/general/how-do-i-adjust-the-over-travel-screw-on-cz-pistols.html (https://czcustom.com/knowledge-base/general/how-do-i-adjust-the-over-travel-screw-on-cz-pistols.html)

 ::)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: DenStinett on September 10, 2019, 07:36:38 PM
How great would it be if that was actually it all-along
Great learning experience though
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 11, 2019, 12:15:54 PM
How great would it be if that was actually it all-along
Great learning experience though

Would be a great release. And proofing my reckless stupidity how to set challenges to learn from.  ::)
I`am just not sure with the course of changes. Was there the installing and missadjusting of the SA trigger causing the ftfire ? Or did i had the .22lr light strikes before shifting to that useful graded up piece of aluminum.
Looking forward to find out by substantial shooting..
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 12, 2019, 04:52:01 PM
Another item to check...make sure the roll pin that retains the barrel has not broken. That would allow the barrel to move forward when the case gets struck by the pin. If you want to get a replacement beforehand, the size is 3 x 12 mm.
Pay attention to the orientation of the split in the pin. It matters.

Hello Painter,
could you  have a look on my Kadets pin and be so kind to help me to understand in what way the orientation of the split matters ? In what orientation is it more durable maybe ? The split is on 6 o`clock downward to the barrel..

(https://i.imgur.com/A7lhSM7.jpg?1)
other side view
(https://i.imgur.com/qxoqG6T.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 12, 2019, 05:33:19 PM
485 rounds in a row and no missfire. Happy!

Just one failiure to feed. For that i blame my 1,6mm = 0.0629inch spacer prestressing the 20lbs. hammerspring in combination with a little weak CCI sv and too short slide kick back travel, may be. No cleaning in between.
300 CCI select, 85 Blazer and 100 CCI sv ignited as desired. For sure what i like to hear. YYhaaa !

I hope it will stay like that in genearal. When i remove the added spacer. And in a second step i`ll try FP1 and FP3.

I-dent-ification pic (CCI select / FP2, 200 rds fired)

(https://i.imgur.com/LdunjwV.jpg)



Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 12, 2019, 06:17:29 PM
Todays others big relief was the premiere of using the - thank you - DenStinnet style modified uplula.
Filling the magazine is very quick and truly recreational now. To complete the gift pack, a shootings club member handed me down his 1950`s/1960`s estimated Anschütz single loader. Out of his uncles heritage who was a hunter like he is. Probably his uncles first rifle he told me. Like a wave through time it is my first rifle too.

(https://i.imgur.com/eGEholD.jpg)

To embellish that days positive vibration on a grand scale, another club member offered for free a Rossi Puma 92. With a bucket of brass .44 magnum for reloading. Just have to pay the dues to list it of their licences to mine.

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=24310.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=24310.0)
 link mod uplula DenStinnet

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 12, 2019, 07:04:26 PM
Another item to check...make sure the roll pin that retains the barrel has not broken. That would allow the barrel to move forward when the case gets struck by the pin. If you want to get a replacement beforehand, the size is 3 x 12 mm.
Pay attention to the orientation of the split in the pin. It matters.

Hello Painter,
could you  have a look on my Kadets pin and be so kind to help me to understand in what way the orientation of the split matters ? In what orientation is it more durable maybe ? The split is on 6 o`clock downward to the barrel..

(https://i.imgur.com/A7lhSM7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qxoqG6T.jpg)
6 or 12 is correct.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 13, 2019, 09:11:23 PM
         Just to compare the dephts of FP strikes on different brass rimfires

left side with missfires, 350 rds                                 hammer free moving
Hammer was irritated by rattling over
the half cock notch                                             right side no missfires 485 rounds in a row
                                                                       
Dents top down.
CCI sv            0-50     4 slide errors= ftfeed                     CCI select   0   - 100
CCI sv          51-100    1 slide error                                 CCI select   101- 200
CCI sv        101-150    1 slide, 2 ftfire                              CCI select   201- 300
cleaned chamber and breech face                                    CCI Blazer    351-350               
CCI Select   151-250    as it should be                              then i went on with CCI sv and Blazer without sampling
CCI MiniMag 251-350    1ftfire

(https://i.imgur.com/CRL62xa.jpg)


For me the right side`s dents on the brass are over all deeper. And the metal is bent more around the strike area. The right side fourth row Blazers
impacts all seem less deep than on all the select ones above.
All of the select and mini mag cases apperently have deeper impacts than in the Blazer or CCI sv rims.

same cases other angle
(https://i.imgur.com/FbYBHpq.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 14, 2019, 09:29:45 AM
I'd take just a touch more off that firing pin.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 15, 2019, 01:57:37 PM
I'd take just a touch more off that firing pin.

Hello Painter, thank`s for amplyfying ! I ´will do so.
Also shot the kadet today, removed the spacer under the hammer spring (20 lbs) to see how reliable the ignition is. And in a first step consolidating findings for the lightest possible hammer spring with a optimized FP. Without the spacer but the 20lbs HS where some failiures. With the cheap ammo only. Next categoriy up ammo CCI select worked just fine.


Dents top down

Blazer    15 rds,  fine
CCI sv    50 rds  1 stove pipe, slide closed on last rd, oiled the slide rails more
CCI sv    50 rds  1 missfire, 3 times the slide closed on the last round
CCI sv    50 rds  3 rds not delivered out of mag , 2 slide closing last rd, cleaned it
CCI select100 rds, fine
CCI Blazer 50 rds, 1 missfire

last row 3 cases fired from range neighbor with a full pistol kadet with the old FP

(https://i.imgur.com/PIcMTTu.jpg)

Summary; Loading with the, thank you, DenStinnet - style modified uplula is a pleasure. Especially reminiscent to the two thumbs method before.
With the CCI SV 250 rds, 2 missfire, but (as usal) in the triple-digit, from 150 to 200 on, when cleaned in between the next pack without. Some slide issues with the CCI SV too, not delivering the next round, stayed not open. May be i can use a lower lbs hs to get the slide always cycling well and strip all rounds out of the mag every time ? If the strong 20 lbs HS is responsible for that..? When the wolff extra power springs arrive i will give them a try too.
For now i will go on without the HS spacer and modify the FP just a touch more. To have more impact power besides the solid rim.
For tournaments i will have ready the CCI select to avoid stress through uncalled malfunctions.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 15, 2019, 02:47:13 PM
I also shot the first time with a "slide spacer " on the recoil spring housing to conserve the barrel pin. Found the topic here:
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=39826.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=39826.0)

Tryed to size it to have the same time contact of slide to "upper",  and contact area over breech face to barrel.  ::)
I am not a native english writer. Help with gunsmith nomenclature is appreciated..
0,35mm = 0.0137 inches improvised combo of some random but sturdy materials.

Rough-and-ready spacers, outlasted testing.
(https://i.imgur.com/QdnTCC2.jpg)

same time contact area 1 (0,35mm = 0.0137 inches feeler gauge)
(https://i.imgur.com/69LPUJ6.jpg)

same time contact area 2 (closed and without toothpick)
(https://i.imgur.com/kSD1MUc.jpg)


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 15, 2019, 05:38:07 PM
If you want to get a replacement beforehand, the size is 3 x 12 mm.
Good idea! I orderd some not holow hardened steel pins. 3x12mm, Stahl DIN7 ,Passstifte. They are made for a tight fit.
Will share pins and knowledge with other Kadet shooters i know.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 16, 2019, 12:13:21 PM
I'd take just a touch more off that firing pin.
Thats the way round to the new FP2 pinch area. Took a used jacket to get the dents. The end result is aside the toothpick. May be i overdid it a bit - it was more than just a touch what is removed. Will hear if it is to narrow, now it is avoiding the full brass area for sure. Like the round dent, which is from a old style Kadet FP. Looking forward to try the mod out.

(https://i.imgur.com/OzVrNfe.jpg)

A untouched FP is waiting to be compared for reliability. And possibly to get the 2 mods who have worked out for this kadet if it is necessary. The the reshaping, removing material on the opposite side of that's already beveled. And a little shortening of the rear shoulder.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 17, 2019, 06:51:29 AM
It possible that the heavy stock spring is responsible for some of the failure to feed, and no hold back on empty.

Can you get a 17 lb spring?

Wolff ships overseas if none are available locally... https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=International-Orders
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 17, 2019, 12:46:53 PM
It possible that the heavy stock spring is responsible for some of the failure to feed, and no hold back on empty.

Can you get a 17 lb spring?

Wolff ships overseas if none are available locally... https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=International-Orders

Hello Painter,

thank you very much. Yes i will get a 17 lb spring. I started acting in that direction too and already removed the extra preloading spacer under the 20 lb HS to work down a little.

Trawling through many of yours and others posts, i found the 17 lb mainspring is recomended as the lowest possible with a highly reliable ignition rate. So i will give it a try for sure. Some needed a 22 lb or even stronger HS to restore the Kadet to normal function, i picked up. Concerning springs and firing. I still have missfires and slide errors. So i have to work on both to get it solid working with more than just one sort of ammo. And not only the expensive stuff. I like to test more variety of ammo too.

The wolff USA order was confirmed the 4 of september and hopefully is on the way over the big ocean. Three of the stronger xtra power hammer springs (22,24,26,lb) and a the hammer spring pack wich is including a 17 lb.

(https://i.imgur.com/CugaN0u.png)

 (Hammer Spring Pak For use in: Traditional configuration, standard (full size)  & longslide models.  This hammer spring pak contains 1 each of 16, 17, 18 and 19 pound reduced power hammer springs described above, allowing adjustment of the firearm to individual requirements.)
The wolff staff member i was mailing with, was also very helpfull to figure out what kind of spring is built in a 6" Nowlin (Senior) PPC 1911 in 9mm from around the year 2000. I got it used this year, but in good condition. And i like to have the proper springs in stock.

We also compared the measuring of my CZ Shadow 1 spring and he wrote it looks like the CZ 75 hammer springs (full size) will fit. The CZ 75 20 lb. (factory standard) spring we make measures as follows:
Wire - .045”
End OD - .264” & .262”
Body OD / ID - .258” / .168”
Length – 2.44 inches with 29 coils
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on September 17, 2019, 04:44:38 PM
I don't think std velocity 22 ammo will have enough power to move the slide all the way to the rear to feed the next round from the mag, or lock back with those extra power springs. I could be wrong.

If you shoot a steady diet of mini mags, or the very high velocity stuff like velocitors...maybe.

I think the right way to go is to put in the 17 lb spring, and shoot quality std velocity ammo, and go from there.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 17, 2019, 05:12:50 PM
Hello Painter,

i will use your hands-on experience starting spring trail and error with the 17 lbs .

Greetings
Joe

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 19, 2019, 04:28:30 PM
This afternoon i started with 50 CCI sv and 5 missing rounds in the chamber. The slide also did not stay open on the last round 3 times. The above mentioned slide spacer i did reduce in width for taking that out of the calculation for light strikes. When pushing the magazin release button the mag came out and unintentionally the slide closed at the same time. This happend more often today.  4 missfires on that first box brought me to the thougt i maybe did to much filing to the FP tip.

Then i shot a pack of 100 CCI select. With shot 50 came a missfire - the first ever with that type of ammo in my kadet.
Cleaning the chamber and breech face and the correlativ barrel face i finished the full box without trouble.

Went on with 50 Blazers with one time slide closing on the last rd and 3 missfires.

Following with 50 rds greasy Geco Semi Auto with surprisingly no issues. With the uplula the fingers stayed largely non fat.

Again i grabbed a box of CCI sv. 6 Missfires and one slide close issue.

Cleaned the chamber and changed to the brandnew and unmodified FP 3. Not a single missfire. 2 non chambering rounds, 2 times the slide did not stayed open with this 20 lb HS. No light strikes and that with 2 boxes of CCI sv ! 100 rds total of the ammo who gave me the most issues before. With the mod. FP2.

Also 50 Blazers followed with completely no issues. Just the mentioned slide closings when releasing the mags. That happend several times today.

Okay. I overtuned FP 2 maybe. Too far away from the rim. See pics above. This modification to avoid the strong, just solid brass rim area without priming compound in it, to be striked by the FP. In principle i think it is just logic and true. To have more momentum on the softer part of the rim.

On the other hand seeing the regular new FP 3 just thrown in, with its large chissel tip is working that well, is quite surprising for me. Happy ! it works. But don´t know why.  ::) Missing the logical explanation..


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 19, 2019, 04:45:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vYYLD1J.jpg)

Found some metal swarf between slide and recoil spring tube. Czechnology ? Cleaned it up, reassembling with Loctite 638.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 21, 2019, 02:55:38 PM
If you want to get a replacement beforehand, the size is 3 x 12 mm.
Good idea! I ordered some not holow hardened steel pins. 3x12mm, Stahl DIN7 ,Passstifte. They are made for a tight fit.
Will share pins and knowledge with other Kadet shooters i know.

(https://i.imgur.com/6LkMU2o.jpg)

Done.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 22, 2019, 02:29:48 PM
Top down i-dent-ification

50 CCI sv FP3=new+unmodified, no issues, cleaned breech face barrel contact surface before and after
50 CCI sv FP1 modified= shorter hit area, longer end for hammer (0,7mm), 1missfire, 1 rd not delivered
35 SK Pistol Match, FP1, 3 missfires, cleaned it afterwards
15 SK Pistol Match, FP3, 1 not delivered, 4th row 1st case not ejected-got second strike, only to remove with cleaning stick from front
50 Blazer FP3, no issues


(https://i.imgur.com/ggnyyvI.jpg?1)

Finally with no missfires but one rd missing and one slide not open on last rd another 50 CCI sv FP3. No brass picked to compare.
The SK Pistol Match where very oily but using the uplula the fingers stayed cleaner when loading the magazine.

Same motive without flash.
(https://i.imgur.com/mUhVj4m.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 29, 2019, 11:22:35 AM
Todays sunday gunday results, FP 3 - new and original, shortened FP spring as usual.
Still waiting for the wolff xtra power springs and calibration package. The shipment from wolff gunsprings needed only 2 days from them to Frankfurt/ Germany airport. For more than 10 days it is in transit for the further 165 miles. ::)

Duell training one and two handed:
100 CCI Select one missfire
200 CCI SV      one missfire, and on some the slide did not stayed open on the last round
Used thin oil (ceramic) on the rails as usual. The new solid barrel pin did not move.


The two missfires, light strikes, ejected them to see the dents, loaded in the mag again, worked then on the second strike
(https://i.imgur.com/kKL26lZ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/CQH049b.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/CQH049b)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on September 29, 2019, 11:59:05 AM
Reminder: Testing of stronger hammersprings additional with a shortened recoil spring to get it reliably working with SV ammo.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Bossgobbler on October 04, 2019, 07:27:17 PM
Have you tried to mill 0.030 off the face of the firing pin retainer where the hammer hits? Also, try to reshape the firing pin so it does not hit on the edge of the rim of the case.

Do you mean to remove the material of the complete surface of the FP retaining plate ?
Or just the area where the hammer hits, and not in the slot-areas where the plate is hold in the slide ?

Just the area where the hammer hits
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 10, 2019, 05:28:09 PM
Still waiting for the wolff xtra power springs and calibration package. The shipment from wolff gunsprings needed only 2 days from them to Frankfurt/ Germany airport. For more than 10 days it is in transit for the further 165 miles. ::)

The wolff spring set arrived today. 3 weeks (and 12 Euro) from Frankfurt Airport through customs to my adress.


(https://i.imgur.com/4ShJTQx.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 10, 2019, 05:47:09 PM
I don't think std velocity 22 ammo will have enough power to move the slide all the way to the rear to feed the next round from the mag, or lock back with those extra power springs. I could be wrong.

If you shoot a steady diet of mini mags, or the very high velocity stuff like velocitors...maybe.

I think the right way to go is to put in the 17 lb spring, and shoot quality std velocity ammo, and go from there.

Testing the 22 lb hs went quite well. And as expexted by painter.
In 200 rds of CCI standard velocity 7 times the slide did not lock back on the last round. 4 times the next round wasn´t feeded. But no missfire at all. Didnt clean the gun to go on with
200 rds of CCI Select. Everything worked fine. Blazer should work similar, i suppose. But leaving more dirt.

first row     CCI sv        22lb FP3 unmod
second row CCI Select  22lb FP3 unmod

(https://i.imgur.com/o4PfKef.jpg?1)

tending to modifiy the FP a little ..
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 10, 2019, 05:59:19 PM
todays dents

first row     CCI Select  22lb FP3 unmod
second row CCI sv        22lb FP3 unmod

compared to older brass dents (Sept.15)

third          Blazer  20 lb mod FP
fourth        CCI sv  20 lb mod FP

(https://i.imgur.com/1gEFnOd.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 10, 2019, 06:17:31 PM
todays dents

first row     CCI Select  22lb FP3 unmod
second row CCI sv        22lb FP3 unmod

compared to other older brass dents, mod FP 20 lb + spacer 1,6mm (Sept.13)

row 3-5 CCI Select
row 6 Blazer

(https://i.imgur.com/dtvrW3U.jpg)

I would like to shape the FP close to that. And test the hammersprings down from 22 lb to 17 lbs. Hopefully there is
 one working well with the sv CCI ammo.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on October 12, 2019, 11:54:21 AM
Joe, the best recommendation I can make to you, at this point, is to slow down and only make one change at a time. If you make multiple changes you'll never really discover what is doing what.

That said, if it were me, I'd put a 17lb spring and a re-profiled firing pin in the gun, and go from there. At that point, make one change at a time.

Good luck!
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 24, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
Installing the 17 lb hammer spring/main spring. Out of the reduced power hammer spring pack from wolff.
26506    CZ75/AT84/P9 9MM, RP HAMMER SPRING PAK
https://www.gunsprings.com/CZ/75%20Series/cID1/mID16/dID91#838 (https://www.gunsprings.com/CZ/75%20Series/cID1/mID16/dID91#838)

(https://i.imgur.com/pFHfbg5.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 24, 2019, 01:31:50 PM
Was shooting the kadet with the 17 lb hammer spring. In combination with the unmodified FP3. One handed.
100 CCI select worked 100 %.
  50  CCi sv not. Light strikes 4 times. And the slide closed on the last rd 2 times.
100 CCI Blazer had 5 light strikes. The slide stayed open on the last round always.

Maybe with the light strikes the slide is sometimes not cycling back in batterie completely with the CCI sv? But why is it happen with the stronger Blazers too ? And never with the CCI Select. Maybe the brass is harder on the Blazers ? And the priming compound more sensitive on the CCI Select ?

If i would shoot the Kadet only two handed i would be fine and stay with the stronger, cleaner and always working CCI select. But i prefere the soft shooting CCI sv especially when training and compete one handed. The gun jumps less, the muscles work less, the arm stays a longer time more stable to aim without shaking. I seem to get more precise target hits out of the CCI sv.


The foto shows
on the first row light strike unfired manual ejected rounds CCI sv
on the second row to compare fired cases CCI sv
on the third row light strike unfired manual ejected Blazer rounds
on the fourth row to compare fired cases of Blazer ammo

(https://i.imgur.com/cj8Cb22.jpg)

same motive from the left side

Bullets
Cases
Bullets
Cases

(https://i.imgur.com/1T69pYY.jpg)


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on October 24, 2019, 07:03:53 PM
Try the modified firing pin.

One thing at a time. ;)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on November 10, 2019, 11:58:30 AM
Some lightstrikes again today with CCI sv. And the 17lb hammer spring. So i started to modifiy the FP3 back at home. The new dent area on a used case besides the original is seen on the pic. Will test it next week. To get the CCI sv running flawless i will also try maybe a reduced recoil spring additional on the next step.

(https://i.imgur.com/usOeslc.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on November 10, 2019, 12:29:24 PM
On the range a member of the club showed me his original Kadet to discuss the loading errors.
It is a older model with the firing pin with the round tip, metall recoil spring guide rod and hard plastic grips. He bought the complete gun some months ago when it was nearly unused. Today we had a closer look to it. The round is hitting the feeding ramp out of the center axis to the left. The magazine and follower also is pointed to the left when inserted in the frame (and looking on it without the slide). Same with another mag. We also found lead chips around. Happy! it is not metal.

When examining for sluggishness and stress marks we found the FP stop broken twice. No probs with light strikes.

(https://i.imgur.com/J2Eodke.jpg)

We figured out that maybe; the hammer tension when get cocked by the slide shoved the FP stop up over the level of the slide. When rushing back it hit repeatedly the upper frame and broke on the weakest spots.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on November 14, 2019, 07:57:59 AM
Some lightstrikes again today with CCI sv. And the 17lb hammer spring. So i started to modifiy the FP3 back at home. The new dent area on a used case besides the original is seen on the pic. Will test it next week. To get the CCI sv running flawless i will also try maybe a reduced recoil spring additional on the next step.

(https://i.imgur.com/usOeslc.jpg?1)
That firing pin imprint looks excellent, Joe!
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on November 15, 2019, 04:12:14 PM
Due to the club`s yearly tournament i had to slow down the kadet project a little the last weeks. But this thursday i went to the range to test the kadets behavior with increasing the hammer spring force. Starting as recomended from the 17 lb hs i escalated pound by pound over 18, 19, 20 and finally 22 lb. Was the plan. Using the above shown FP3 and the CCI sv ammo which i would like to run my CZ with permanently and reliably. The rails where repeatedly oiled with a thin ballistol ceramic oil (CunCer).
To have some half-decent experimental set-up i thougt to shoot 100 rounds per spring. The 17 lb gave a lot of light strikes (12) which got less with the 18 lb hs. But here startet the slide not to stay open on the last rd occasionally. With the 19 lb hs just 3 light strikes, 3 slide isues and new - missing rounds (2) in the chamber. The have not been stripped from the mag.
Jumping to the 22 lb spring i had no light strikes, 3 slide isues, 3 missing rounds and two stove pipe surprises.
So the standard ammo was not strong enough for the strong hammer spring in combination with the regular recoil spring.
To reduce the amount of overall spring power which the ammo and the slide has to move, i started cutting down the recoil spring 3 windings and used the 20 lb hs. No light strikes but a slide closing one time on the last round, 2 missing rds and a stove pipe. Cuted down another 2 windings with the result of having a light strike, a slide, a missing rd and a stove pipe on 50 rds. With the shooting time running out i combined the 5 windings shorter recoil spring with the 22 lb hs with 50 rds - 5 light strikes, but nothing else.
As stated by painter the sv ammo has not enough power to move the slide all the way to the rear to feed the next round from the mag, or lock back with those extra power springs.
Back home in a sort of displacement activity, i completely cleaned, degreased and dryed the gun with pressurized air to prepare it for the treatment with an new and other sort of lubricant. A solid, dry and residue free ceramic lubricant (Fluna). Have a original length replacement recoil spring in stock too.


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on November 21, 2019, 04:47:44 PM
Today i tryed another time combinations of springs and firing pins. CCI sv in 50 cartridges paper boxes. 450 shots.
I ended up with FP3 (with a little reduced hit area), the original 20 lb hammer spring of the SP-01 Shadow1 and a reduced Kadet recoil spring. Minus 6 coils. In that combo i only had to accept that the slide did not open on the last round. But no light strikes. To get the slide lock back i could try to cut of annother winding or try that fix described by Joe 75 plus.
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=22581.0

Before cutting of coil number 6 from the recoil spring i had the same slide issues and 3 times an empty chamber because the rd was not stripped down from the mag. With the 19 lb hammer spring in the grip i still has 3 light strikes on a box of 50. With the 18 lb hs 3 light strikes and a slide issue.

The Fluna tec gun coating stayed quite good on the rails, no relubing was needed. Cleaning the gun at home showed less powder residue in some areas. I credit that to the Fluna too. Or the CCI sv ammo is cleaner now.
 
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on November 21, 2019, 05:08:44 PM
Pic and delineantion to post above
(https://i.imgur.com/BksjdZ1.jpg?1)
testing CCI sv,Top down

First row: FP2, 17 lb hs, rec.s -5 coils. Every second shot a light strike.
2 row:     FP1, 17 lb hs, rec.s -5 c. 10 light strikes in 35 shots.
3 row:     FP3, 17 lb hs, rec.s -5 c. 2 light strikes on 50.
4 row:     FP3, 17 lb hs, rec.s original length, 3 light strikes, 3 slides, 1 stove pipe
"5 row":   FP3, 18 lb hs, rec.s orig. , 2 light strikes, 2 slides, 7 missing rds in chamber - not stripped from mag
6 row:     FP3, 18 lb hs, rec.s -5 coils, 3 light strikes, 1 slide,
7 row:     FP3, 19 lb hs, rec.s -5, 3 light strikes,
"8 row":     FP3, 20 lb hs orig., rec.s -5, no light strikes, 5 slides, 3 missing rds,
"9 row":     FP3, 20 lb hs orig., rec.s -6, no light strikes, 6 slides, no missing rds,
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on November 28, 2019, 03:02:03 PM
Tested the combo who worked at the end of the last range day. CCI standard velocity, the lightly reshaped FP3, original hammer spring and cut down (-6 coils) recoil spring. In the first 200 shots only one light strike and one stove pipe. With the fifth 50 cartridges paper box i got 4 light strikes and one time the slide not locking back on the last round. After cleaning the chamber and the contact areas from slide to barrel - zero malfunctions for another 100 rounds.


(https://i.imgur.com/jtGSAdA.jpg)

new and old layout
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on November 28, 2019, 05:47:56 PM
All the CCI SV I have looks similar to the box on the right. Instead of saying 35EU, it says 0035. I wonder if they make it differently for Europe?

Your last set of results are approximately what I get, but I can use a lighter hammer spring and an unmodified recoil spring. I do have a lighter firing pin spring that I got when CGW had them available. The light hits are caused by the wax lube getting between the rim and the barrel face. I might be able to go a few more rounds before a light hit, and I rarely get stove pipes. I will occasionally have a failure to strip off the next round in the mag, but that's just a weak round.

The only other thing I can suggest is to try a weaker firing pin spring, not shorter, weaker. Some have used the spring from a ball point pen.

Unless you want to try a different brand of ammo to see if it will go longer, or perform with lighter springs, I think you've gotten as close as you're going to get.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 05, 2019, 06:17:06 AM
All the CCI SV I have looks similar to the box on the right. Instead of saying 35EU, it says 0035. I wonder if they make it differently for Europe?
The new design is new to me too. (I think it is the same ammo inside). I used the old and new packed boxes alternating the last two range sessions.


Your last set of results are approximately what I get, but I can use a lighter hammer spring and an unmodified recoil spring. I do have a lighter firing pin spring that I got when CGW had them available. The only other thing I can suggest is to try a weaker firing pin spring, not shorter, weaker. Some have used the spring from a ball point pen.
I will give ball point pen springs a try, replacing the shortened FP spring !
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 05, 2019, 06:28:42 AM
Due to getting another box from the czech republik with new firing pins made in USA i have new spare ones now. So i additional narrowed the flanks of my FP3 a little to maybe have more impact "force" on the priming compound and to see what happens.

Left to right, modified firing pin tips, FP1 - FP3.  FP4 new original size.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q6VJsIQ.jpg?1)

New FP4 from
https://www.cz-spare.parts/firing-pin-cz-75-kadet-usa-no-54
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 05, 2019, 06:31:47 AM
Left to right, modified firing pins, FP1 - FP3.  FP4 in new original.

(https://i.imgur.com/D033Cpq.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/NJjhqfs.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 05, 2019, 02:14:48 PM
Tested the FP3 with the reduced hit area on the flanks. And compared the shortened FP spring to the use of a ball pen spring. Cut down Kadet recoil spring, minus 6 or 7 coils.  Original 20 lb hammer spring in the grip. Alternating new and old design paper boxes of CCI SV.
On the first box (new design) i had 1 light strike, 1 time the slide stayed not open on the last round, 1 missing round in the chamber wich was not stripped from the magazin.
Second box (old design) one light strike. Cleaned the contact areas barrel face and slide, rim, ramp and chamber then.
Third box (new d.) i changed to the ball pen spring. No issues.
Fourth box (old d.) one time slide closing on the last round of the mag. Cleaned the contact areas barrel face and slide, rim, ramp and chamber then.
Fifth box (new d.). I put in the new unmod. FP 4 and kept the ball pen spring. No issues.
Sixth box (old d.) one light strike and one missing round on the last 3 shots.

Looks like the ball pen spring reduces light strikes compared to the shortened FP spring. Will go on with it and FP3.


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 05, 2019, 03:01:57 PM
First row   FP3, shortened FP spring
Secnd row FP3, ball pen spring
Third row   FP4, ball pen spring

(https://i.imgur.com/D4k1efW.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on December 05, 2019, 03:04:12 PM
Try a lighter hammer spring now. That should eliminate the slide closing on the last round.

What happened to the FP that had the strike off the outside edge of the rim?

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 05, 2019, 03:36:45 PM
Try a lighter hammer spring now. That should eliminate the slide closing on the last round.

What happened to the FP that had the strike off the outside edge of the rim?

It is FP3. But somehow the rim of the case is now hit too ? Or it just looks like so due to optical adverse conditions.
Before (top) and after (down) shaping the flanks of FP3.

(https://i.imgur.com/PFkLc8B.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 05, 2019, 03:43:33 PM
Left to right:
Firing pin original, FP spring original length, shortened FP spring (in use) , ball pen spring (in use now)

(https://i.imgur.com/qyZ2E04.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on December 05, 2019, 06:25:24 PM
Try a lighter hammer spring now. That should eliminate the slide closing on the last round.

What happened to the FP that had the strike off the outside edge of the rim?

It is FP3. But somehow the rim of the case is now hit too ? Or it just looks like so due to optical adverse conditions.
Before (top) and after (down) shaping the flanks of FP3.

(https://i.imgur.com/PFkLc8B.jpg)

I'd take a bit more off that pin to get the entire strike on the flat part of the case
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 09, 2019, 05:42:11 AM

I'd take a bit more off that pin to get the entire strike on the flat part of the case

Did this to FP two some time ago, but the ignition rate got worser. In the moment i  just go with the idea to smaller the chissel style FP at the flanks. To get the little bit stronger hit and also at the bevelled area of the brass. Somehow i got the impression the rimfire works better with hitting this area. Maybe to have the priming compound sqeezed between brass and brass in the smallest compound volume area inside the rim. To have the hammer-anvil effect there between brass and brass.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 09, 2019, 05:49:15 AM
FP dents from 1-4, original 20 lb hammer spring, ball pen spring with the firing pin

(https://i.imgur.com/65LwKeb.jpg?1)

same motive, different light and zoom
(https://i.imgur.com/rt4c85h.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on December 09, 2019, 08:01:53 AM
Pin #2 is definitely too small of a print.

#3 is very close. I'd take a little more. When I profiled my pin I was trying for 1 1/2 times case thickness from the edge.

This is Eley...the brass seems very soft.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/719/33118170456_ddfb6fb7e3.jpg)

and some CCI before, and surplus S&B after...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/3771/32480883233_7c20dc87e7_b.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 11, 2019, 03:26:43 AM
Hello Painter,
how many lb is the hammer spring used for these dents ?
Do you have missfires ?
What FP spring is used ? Original, shortened, ball pen ?
Greets,
J
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on December 11, 2019, 03:55:24 PM
The CCI and S&B marks were made with a 17lb spring. The Eley cases were fired in a CZ rifle.

I have occasional misfires. I had two or three light hits today in 70 rounds. They both went bang on the second hit. It always means it's time to clean There are about 230 rounds since the last cleaning.

The firing pin spring is a CGW spring that isn't available any longer. I'll take a picture of it the next time I clean the gun, which will be soon. I also run a CGW Race hammer, which is heavier than a stock hammer.

Pretty much everything I've done is in this thread... https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=86684.msg649425#msg649425
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on December 12, 2019, 10:07:32 AM
Picture of FP and spring...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49208769306_b4a6e2368c_b.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 12, 2019, 01:17:24 PM
Try a lighter hammer spring now. That should eliminate the slide closing on the last round.

Tryed today some lighter hammer springs. As before i used the ball pen spring in the FP channel and the shortened recoil spring (-6coils). With FP3. I changed from the original 20 lb hs to the 19 lb wolff spring. Shooting one handed 25 meters  CCI SV as it is my will to get it running reliable. I like the precision for the price. Because it leaves dirt i cleaned 3 times.
So in 50 rounds had 5 missing rounds in the chamber, one time the slide did not stayed open. One time the case was extracted only half way out of the chamber. I think the new 19 lb wolff spring is as more more powerfull than the original and used 20 lb mainspring. Dents row one.
So i inserted the 18 lb wolff spring. That went quite well. With 100 shots one missfire. Dents row two. The empty cases where thrown out more to the forward than to the side as used. Also with the 17 lb wolff spring i pluged in. On 100 shots 4 light strikes. One slide, one missing round and one stove pipe.Row three. Changing back to the 18 lb hs gave me 50 flawless working shots. Row 4.

19 lb
18 lb
17 lb
18 lb 

(https://i.imgur.com/yFi72W6.jpg)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 12, 2019, 01:28:24 PM
Picture of FP and spring...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49208769306_b4a6e2368c_b.jpg)

That spring looks preferable because stronger / longer than to the ball pen spring i use in the moment. With that ball pen spring i suspect a occasional doubling of the FP hit on the brass, what i can guess looking to the pics magnificating the dents.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on December 12, 2019, 02:05:59 PM
When you install the FP is the spring preloaded? You could make a small spacer to fit on the small diameter of the spring pin. That would effectively lengthen the spring without adding spring weight. Those other springs you showed have much heavier wire. Shortening a spring does not make it weaker. Lengthening it doesn't make it stronger. It's about the wire diameter and the number of coils.

I don't think it's possible to double hit. I could be wrong.

I still think you could take a bit more off that pin Joe. Don't go as far as pin #2, but try to mimic the strikes in my pics.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on December 15, 2019, 10:42:42 AM
Hello Painter,
yes the spring is preloaded. I had no problems so far within a radius of fishing for the spring outside of the slide.
If it ever happens i will give the spacer you mentioned a try. Or i will find fitting springs somewhere.
When looking to the second case in the fourth row on the last pic i posted, i assume a doubling. But can be something else. I just keep an eye on it when checking the dental imprints in future.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: DenStinett on December 15, 2019, 01:37:16 PM
Haven't been keeping-up with your progress guys, but have you thought to contact Wolff directly and ask if they have a line on a;
Correct length but MUCH lighter Firing Pin Spring ?
I'd bet their Engineering Department could be a great source for you, given that; You've done / are doing a majority of the R&D ? And if they do come-up with the right Spring, they'd sell a ton of them !

Given (in this case), the only real need for the Firing Pin Spring, is to keep enough of the Pin back, to keep the Stop from falling out out of the Slide
Especially when you consider the number of Semi Autos out there that don't even use a Firing Pin Spring .... And that design; it helped win a World War !
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on December 15, 2019, 02:26:13 PM
Next time I have mine apart I'll measure the details of my spring...wire diameter/length/od.

I bet there's thousands of them sitting in warehouses. ;D
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on January 30, 2020, 03:45:43 PM
Quite reliable shooting with the kadet today. Compared to other days with this .22 lr.
A gunsmith examined and maybe reduced the headspace a very little bit. He told me that the cartridge rim now sets better against the barrel / chamber when delivered by the slide. Before there was maybe a little more play wich could lead to missfires when the FP hits the cartridge rim and the rim has no contact to the chamber/ barrel face. Gets just shoved against the barrel face with the light strike and fires with the second strike the primered rim having its barrel face anvil now. In theory.

18 lb hammer spring, ball pen FP spring, FP3, sometimes shortened sometimes original recoil spring i used today.
Only one light strike on 70 shots with the CCI select and 200 CCI sv with not one light strike.
I will try the lighter hammer springs next times. And the shortened original FP spring. Today was the first time the FP stop loosened with the ball pen spring in use. The FP stop moved out of its position and sticked over the slide. But did not completely left the slide.
3 stove pipes. Maybe one day i try a new ejector and do a lighter angle modifikation. https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=7863.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=7863.0) The current one i filed extensive angles on wich helped a lot. But sometimes there is a stove pipe appearing..
Todays dents..

(https://i.imgur.com/i9sODl6.jpg?3)

To reduce friction and fouling plus easy cleaning i use that Anschütz/ Fluna stuff. The gunsmith Jan Bruder
https://www.buechsenmachereibruder.de/ (https://www.buechsenmachereibruder.de/) introduced it to me and my kadet.

https://shop.ahg-anschuetz.de/en/weapon-care-safety/cleaning/463/anschuetz-gun-ceramic-coating (https://shop.ahg-anschuetz.de/en/weapon-care-safety/cleaning/463/anschuetz-gun-ceramic-coating)

https://ahg.anschuetz-sport.com/dateien/Downloads%20(eng)/Anschuetz-gun-products.Eng.pdf

I had to degrease and dry the complete gun first. I used break cleaner and Loctite 7063 degreaser, cloths and compressed air. Alfresco.
Then i sprayed Fluna on and wiped it down. Also in the barrel. And not to forget the kadets FP and its spring and channnel. Mags. Home from the range i now clean the barrel with Fluna, a nylon brush and patches.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on January 30, 2020, 04:09:10 PM
On every 50 shots i had 3 slide not locking back on the empty mag issues. Reading this https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=22581.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=22581.0) let me have a look to the slide stop and magazin follower interaction. Upper removed.
As recogniszed and shared by 75 plus the magazine spring was to weak to lift the slide stop spring. I pushed the slide stop spring retaining pin with a little punch to the inside of the frame to get the spring out. Holding it with pliers i flattened it just a little, feeling it bending i stopped. Back in, the mag follower now can move the slide stop easy. Looking forward for testing and forgetting that slide issue on the range next time.

toothpick pointing on slide stop spring retaining pin on a SP-01 Shadow frame

(https://i.imgur.com/ZwcQQvk.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 01, 2020, 04:11:35 PM
Used confetti from my desktop hole puncher to form a concept of how much headspace / rimspace is left with a round loaded in the chamber and the slide closed. The thought to it is, if the rimfire sits not tight against the chamber, the kadets firing pin can shove the cartidge forwards and looses its momentum to ignite the primer on the first strike.
Used a calliper to measure the confetti thickness and height of the empty headspace. And the brass rim height. And a feeler gauge to measure the crack between slide and upper in the area where the recoil spring housing is.
For example with one confetti between brass and breechface the slide just touches the upper chamber area metal to metal. With two confetti not. With a drop of oil the confetti stays on the breechface. Removed the extractor claw for better handling. I do not post numeric values with intend. Just like to show the "method" with some pics.

confetti placed
(https://i.imgur.com/cZ0abCk.jpg)

confetti and round placed
(https://i.imgur.com/1s1WcLh.jpg)

toothpic(k), pointing to contact area with improvised feeler gauge
(https://i.imgur.com/ptOAMsQ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wEqanol.jpg)


To reduce the stress on the barrel pin,
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=39826.msg823843#msg823843 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=39826.msg823843#msg823843)
pre headspace/rimspace reducing i could add the two of these improvised spacer rings. To have the same time contact at both points when the slide closes. The slide and slide housing where these spacers are and the lock up point from slide at the breech face to the barrel face.
 Now with the reduced space for the cartridge rim i only can use one spacer to have the contact in the same time.

(https://i.imgur.com/QdnTCC2.jpg)

Barrel pin  3x12mm, quick and permanent fix
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=51323.msg313472#msg313472 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=51323.msg313472#msg313472)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 02, 2020, 04:24:39 PM
Todays dents FP 3, FP ball pen spring
row 1, 18 lb hs    (original recoil spring)
row 2, 17 lb hs    (original recoil spring)
row 3, 17 lb hs    (shortened recoil spring)

(https://i.imgur.com/bB4YF4B.jpg?1)

Best thing first - no light strike on 300 CCI sv.
First box of 50 rds i had no slide not staying open on the last round issues. But 3 times a missing round not striped from the mag into the chamber.
Second box 2 slide issues. After that first 100 shots i switched from the 18 lb hs to the 17 lb hammerspring - which gave me light strikes the first time i used it some weeks ago. No light strikes but 3 slide issues on pack three. Box 4 one slide, box 5 i additonal switched to the shortened recoil spring. To give the slide a little more power to go further back. No slide issues for that fifth box. One on the sixth pack.

 I had hoped that slide not locking back on the last round to be solved with the tension reduction of the slide catch release spring, to help the folower of the kadet mag to push the lever up. Then i took a closer look inside with removed upper.
Bingo. The follwer is touched and slowed down by the slide catch to early on a wrong spot.

(https://i.imgur.com/ov5qVUG.jpg)

Same thing with the second mag. It looked already filed on that spot. So just enough metal had to vanish to give untroubled way to the red plastic. Hope it proves right next time on the range.  ::)


Cleaning the upper i found stress marks again.

(https://i.imgur.com/Is7dTmu.jpg)

The backwards moving slide gets pressed up when cocking the hammer and rubs against the upper.
The firing pin retaining plate i already had shortened last year to get it on a equal hight to the slide - also when pressed up by the hammer.
It is easy to see, holding the assembled pistol against light, if there is a contact area. The files where still on the table..

(https://i.imgur.com/ZcBqks0.jpg)



Puzzled we found last year a club members Kadet´s FP retaining plate shatterd to pieces - but still in place and working.

(https://i.imgur.com/J2Eodke.jpg?1)

 Belike it repeatedly hit the upper on its way back because it was sticking up the slide.




Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 02, 2020, 04:34:53 PM
The conversion kit is truly a conversion kit.
Converts me into a wannabe gunsmith.
 ::)

Like it !
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 04, 2020, 07:57:38 AM
From  https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546664#/topics/546664?page=1 (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546664#/topics/546664?page=1)

...case rim will be pinned flush against the barrel face, and hit hard enough to detonate the primer.

If you get poor ignition because of excess headspace it's better to fix the headspace on the rifle rather than measure hundreds of cartridge cases.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 04, 2020, 02:41:51 PM
How to calculate a matching front sight and how to adjust an iron sight

I hold my sights under the targets black into the white paper area for the contrast. And, real cause, it was explained to me like that. Meanwhile my convercion kit`s rear sight is completely screwed in direction to up. And the point of impact could still be higher. The white stripe between front sight and target black could be more obvious too, for visual hamonics as wide as the light passing by the front sight vertically. I searched for informations on iron sight adjustment. And if i would need a longer - or shorter front sight to correct the POI. And to get the rear sights centered additionally.

I liked that explanation:   https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/How_to_adjust_an_iron_sight (https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/How_to_adjust_an_iron_sight)

If your shot is below (needs to be higher) your target using both sights facing directly at your target, the rear sight should be moved higher or your front sight should be moved lower.

 Always remember: Move the rear sight in the same direction you want your point of impact to move & your front sight the opposite direction you want POI to move.



My special-needs teacher here
https://stores.kensight.com/front-sight-height-guide/ (https://stores.kensight.com/front-sight-height-guide/)
got me to understand that i can calculate the height difference for a matching new front sight with the shown formula.

So in my case i will go down with the front sight - install i shorter one. To calculate the new front post height i would have to center my rear sights, go shooting holding my point of aim with the sights, and measuring how much i shoot low. Put it in the formula..  Thats how i understand the theory. To be proofed..


 
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 06, 2020, 03:27:27 AM
Next time I have mine apart I'll measure the details of my spring...wire diameter/length/od.

I bet there's thousands of them sitting in warehouses. ;D

That is a very kind offer. I looking forward for details. Sure get it within a radius of a nice motorcycle ride. Here at the Black Forrest area out of a cuckoo clock or from another major branch of industrie.

https://vimeo.com/152027144 (https://vimeo.com/152027144)

slightly modified cuckoocadet
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 06, 2020, 05:09:00 PM
Today i tested the 16lb hammer spring and FP3 with other components. Again with the CCI sv. The 17lb had avoided light strikes completely, with a ball pen spring for the FP and the cut down recoil spring. And in vain i hoped the slide issue was fixed with loosening the slide catch release spring and clearing the mag folower from rubbing on the slide catch bevore getting lifted after the last round.  I started the 16lb main spring in combination with a shortened kadet firing pin spring and the shortened recoil spring. 9,3cm left from the uncut original length wich i have in 10cm and 10,3cm. Two times in beteen the 650 shots i cleaned the locking areas, slide to barrel.
First box of 50 with 3 light strikes and 2 rounds not striped from the mag. 1 slide issue. Row 1.
Second box 2 light strikes. So i wondered if the reason is the weaker 16lb hs, the stronger cut FP spring compared to the light ball pen spring or if the shortened recoil spring is may be not closing the slide complete. So i tested some combinations.
Third and fourth package ran just fine with the ball pen spring on the FP. Row 3.
Box five i put in the orig. length FP spring - explicitly 14 missfires. Row 4.
Box six i put in 2 ball pen springs in a row in the FP channel. 1 light strike 1 slide. Box 7 one light strike one stove pipe . Row 5
Box 8 i changed to the orig. length recoil spring to get on light strike and one slide issue. Still two ball pen springs with Box 9 no light strike but one slide. Row 6.
Box 10 back to one ball pen fp spring. Still the orig. rec. spring. One light strike, 2 stove, 3 slide. Box 11 back to the minus 6 windings shortened rec. spring. No light strikes, no slide. One case gets ejected poorly, scraping out of the side.
And i realise that the first round chambering from the mag is doggerel.
So box 12 i install a fresh recoil spring just cut down minus two windings. Gives 4 slide issues and one rd is not chambered. Round one chambering feels slick.
So box 13 i cut it down on minus 4 windings still earning 3 slide issues.

Will go back to the 17lb hammer spring. Playing with cuting down the recoil spring and try an all original FP will come next time. Some more FP modifying maybe. The importance of the lightness of the FP spring astonishes me. Good result.
The feeling with the orig. length rec. spring is better but the cut down exemplar to in the moment 9,3cm, worked much better. Funambulation.  ::)

todays dents
(https://i.imgur.com/JMh68nM.jpg)

rows from the side, cases and missfires
(https://i.imgur.com/Kqa5Jpx.jpg)

personal record 650 - thanks to Den`s UpLula mod ! more trigger time
(https://i.imgur.com/JHJk6Zx.jpg)

some hits getting centered, hope repeatable
(https://i.imgur.com/rq6a1PV.jpg)
25m two handed, shooting glas on dominant eye
 



Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on February 06, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
One old man's perspective...

you're wasting a bunch of firing pin energy on the part of the rim that contains no priming material.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 08, 2020, 12:37:56 PM

How to calculate a matching front sight
      goto   https://stores.kensight.com/front-sight-height-guide/      (https://stores.kensight.com/front-sight-height-guide/)
did it in the metric unit, mesuring

front sight hight  5 mm
sight radius        16 cm
impact distance  18 cm (with centered rear sight, complete amount of clicks is 51. So 25 clicks for centering the rear sights starting at one end position)
target distance   2500 cm

(16 multiplied 18) divided by 2500  = 0,1152 cm = 1,152 mm So my front sight should be 1,52 mm less than now 5 mm.
Desired size is 3,848 mm. Would be cutting the dot on the front sight in half. I stopped filing at 4,2 mm just scratching on the white dot.To have scope for design.

Now i can use my rear sight`s adjustability again to level in my holding area. Had to go up 3 clicks trying it with the scatt dry firing at home.
 ( https://tec-hro.de/schiesssport/de/scatt/576-scatt-mx-w2.html (https://tec-hro.de/schiesssport/de/scatt/576-scatt-mx-w2.html)  )

 To be proofed on the range..
 ::)




Shortened front sight on Kadet 2 conversion kit to get impacts higher, scatt on scatt rail picatinni clamp on CZ 75 SP-01 rail
(https://i.imgur.com/fawtfWR.jpg)

https://www.scatt.com/picatinny-rail-mount


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 08, 2020, 12:50:00 PM
One old man's perspective...

you're wasting a bunch of firing pin energy on the part of the rim that contains no priming material.

I like your perspective! I will work on the FP shape again !
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 09, 2020, 01:06:40 PM
One old man's perspective...

you're wasting a bunch of firing pin energy on the part of the rim that contains no priming material.

I like your perspective! I will work on the FP shape again !

Modified FP3 to avoid the rim a little bit more. Should work it away from the rim more again. Still 1 light strike in a box of 50 CCI sv. Ball pen FP spring and 17lb hammer spring. Remember your words:
You want the strike about .010-.015 inside the edge of the case,. Keep in mind that all ammo has variances, so be conservative.
Metric 0,25 - 0,30mm.


First row case, filing, testing on empty case
Second row shooting it
Third row, old style Kadet pistol FP dents, very probably the origina HS 18-20lb  - avoids the rim pretty much. Will try a FP4 copying that pattern - away from the rim but not filing the tip smaller, to have some coverage of the primer area. May be i should try a old style FP one day. If i can`t get rid of light strikes by filing.
Fourth row, light strike, ejected and loaded again -second fired.

(https://i.imgur.com/Egptm6X.jpg)

Not only light strikes. It is even more interesting like that.
First box 1light strike, 2 missing rounds, one stove pipe . Ball pen FP spring and a only -4 coils shortened rec. spring.
Sec. box 1 light strike, 1 stove pipe.
Third box i changed to the minus 6 coils rec. spring. 50 shots no issues.
Fourth box 1 light strike, nothing else
Fifth box fine.
Sixth box one light strike.

Just one slide issue on 300 rounds. These modifikations worked. To ease the slide stop spring and to give way for the magazine follower when moving up on the last round. At least operated with the minus 6 windings recoil spring and 17lb hammer spring.

The filing of the front sight proofed as right on the range today.With one click up i could realise the desired sub 6 O’clock hold in the bright area. What helped me a lot to follow and cunduct my sights while pulling the trigger.

(https://i.imgur.com/WqqpkfG.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/T6AzGXo.jpg?1)
                                            sub 6 hold A-ming, A better group with - seeing an even white A



Checking when cleaning i found some more rubbing marks from the slide/ already shortened FP retaining plate.

(https://i.imgur.com/50KsrNr.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 10, 2020, 12:36:09 PM
One old man's perspective...

you're wasting a bunch of firing pin energy on the part of the rim that contains no priming material.

I like your perspective! I will work on the FP shape again !

Modified FP3 to avoid the rim a little bit more. Should work it away from the rim more again. Still 1 light strike in a box of 50 CCI sv. Ball pen FP spring and 17lb hammer spring. Remember your words:
You want the strike about .010-.015 inside the edge of the case,. Keep in mind that all ammo has variances, so be conservative.
Metric 0,25 - 0,30mm.

Now FP3 and FP4 have the .010 inch (0,25 mm) distance from the rim.
FP4 is unshot. Want to keep the width for covering more priming area than on FP3. And try it out if it leads to alltime ignition. Was thinking of a new FP shape. Turned just a quarter to get more covering of the priming area away of the rim ?

Clockwise, FP3 first mod, FP now shaped, original FP4, FP4 mod
(https://i.imgur.com/q4yQxlE.jpg)
Rim split from impacts.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 11, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
That FPins 3 and 4 i will test with 17lb and 18lb hammer spring.
Another experiment would be to use other manufactuers cheap ammo, like Aguilla and so on, with the 17lb and 16lb hs, ball pen spring and shortenend Kadet FP spring. To find the 99.99% reliable sv combi. Maybe because of different Primer sensitivities.
Still like to have the advantage of missfires for checking steady hold vs anticipation, for the enquiring eye surprised by just  a click. Like flinching or milking the grip when pulling the trigger. Or pulling the sights out of alignment just to the hammerfall.  ::)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 14, 2020, 11:35:32 AM
Only 50 shots with FP4 yesterday in the Kadet. Still one lightstrike and one failure to feed right in the beginning.
17lb hs. Ball pen FPspring. Plastic spacer removed.

first time firing FP4
(https://i.imgur.com/aruoGix.jpg?1)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on February 14, 2020, 12:22:33 PM
What are you using to lube, and how much?
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 14, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
Hello Painter,

after cleaning the firing pin channel and firing pin, the pin and spring gets a little bit of lube wich i instantly remove with a cloth or Q-tip. The rails i keep lubed but only with the thin lube. No grease.
On the Kadet i started with Gunnex by Ballistol. It is a middle thin oil modern variant. I tryed Brunox Turbo.Very thin lubricant and good for cleaning too. I switched to the Ballistol CunCer wich is also very thin and has ceramic additives.
Then the gunsmith Jan Bruder showed me the austrian Flunatec. A not oily not sticky ceramic lubricant wich is also adopted branded by Anschütz after testing. I degreased the gun and treated it with Fluna GunCoating. I use it as adviced for cleaning and lubing. As before the FP and its channel gets the same cleaning and "invisible" lubing. So no over lubing there. On the Shadow 1 the Kadet 2 slide has a lot of play in the rails, and is also not slowed down by over lubing. My Kadets mechanics are much more smoother and lighter operating than the ones of a club member.



Kadet lubing history in order of appearence
(https://i.imgur.com/vJyWTEP.jpg)



 
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on February 14, 2020, 04:54:08 PM
Just wanted to check. ;D

You don't lube the firing pin... right?
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 15, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Right. I do lube for cleaning and do remove the lube before installing. Also in the FP channel.
 I´ve read of someone here who`s firing pin is not working properly if only one drop of lube is involved or creeps in from somewhere else of the pistol.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on February 15, 2020, 03:57:12 PM
Right. I do lube for cleaning and do remove the lube before installing. Also in the FP channel.
 I´ve read of someone here who`s firing pin is not working properly if only one drop of lube is involved or creeps in from somewhere else of the pistol.
That might have been me. I was having light strikes well before the gun was due for cleaning.

I had over oiled the hammer pin and oil had migrated up to the retainer plate. It was enough to cause issues.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 15, 2020, 04:50:51 PM
Right. I do lube for cleaning and do remove the lube before installing. Also in the FP channel.
 I´ve read of someone here who`s firing pin is not working properly if only one drop of lube is involved or creeps in from somewhere else of the pistol.
That might have been me. I was having light strikes well before the gun was due for cleaning.

I had over oiled the hammer pin and oil had migrated up to the retainer plate. It was enough to cause issues.
Thank you for the pointer painter -
i will have a look on this.
Could it be that superfluous lube on my Kadet from the rails is translatory motioned under the firing pin retaining plate ?
 And then gets pumped into the FP channel too ? Where it affects the movement of the FP. I will check it by shooting with dryed rails with excess Flunatec wiped of completely. And will check the FP area for adsorbed lube.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 20, 2020, 04:08:43 PM
Only one light strike today on 350 CCI sv. The missfire was around 340. The dent on the manual ejected round was fine. Worked with the second hit. 17lb hs, shortened recoil spring length 92mm= 3.62inches, FP4, no spacer.
I started with a cleaned Kadet. Every liquid rest of Fluna lube i could find i wiped of. I sprayed lube rests out of the hammer area with a compressed air can. Wiped the rials down. With the Fluna the slide is still gliding lubricated even there is no residue of it.
I checked the FP4 and its retainer plate for materializing lube out of other spaces of the mechanics every box of 50 shots. Wiped the plate down two times. Did not clean other parts.

first row- first box, second row- fifth box
(https://i.imgur.com/iA06D07.jpg)

dirt from 350 shots CCI sv
(https://i.imgur.com/AI7qsP8.jpg)

cleaned
(https://i.imgur.com/kIJ0On6.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on February 20, 2020, 05:14:59 PM
Good results.

Does the CCI SV leave a lot of wax on the feed ramp? I can't tell from the picture.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 21, 2020, 06:11:26 AM
Haven't been keeping-up with your progress guys, but have you thought to contact Wolff directly and ask if they have a line on a;
Correct length but MUCH lighter Firing Pin Spring ?
I'd bet their Engineering Department could be a great source for you, given that; You've done / are doing a majority of the R&D ? And if they do come-up with the right Spring, they'd sell a ton of them !

Some weeks ago i mailed to CGW asking for the FP springs dimensions they have been used to sale. No response so far.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on February 21, 2020, 06:49:36 AM
I'm getting close to needing to clean my FP channel. I haven't forgotten about the spring dimensions I said I'd provide.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 22, 2020, 07:37:07 AM
Good results.

Does the CCI SV leave a lot of wax on the feed ramp? I can't tell from the picture.

Hello Painter thanks for asking,
why are you asking especially for that?
Yes there is some dirt. Like on the other areas who are visible on the picture.  Next time i will try to examine what kind of dirt it is. Are you suspect the dirt from the feed ramp to provoke light strikes ? Like getting between rim and chamber face ? Or inhibit the cartridge getting fully seated ?

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 22, 2020, 07:44:23 AM
I'm getting close to needing to clean my FP channel. I haven't forgotten about the spring dimensions I said I'd provide.

When cleaning sometimes i use "ever glo" polish on a Q-tip trying to smooth the FP channel`surface  ::)  .
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on February 22, 2020, 05:49:15 PM
Good results.

Does the CCI SV leave a lot of wax on the feed ramp? I can't tell from the picture.

Hello Painter thanks for asking,
why are you asking especially for that?
Yes there is some dirt. Like on the other areas who are visible on the picture.  Next time i will try to examine what kind of dirt it is. Are you suspect the dirt from the feed ramp to provoke light strikes ? Like getting between rim and chamber face ? Or inhibit the cartridge getting fully seated ?
The CCI SV I have is very waxy. Most of it is several years old, and bought for too much money...lol.

Sometimes you'll see chunks of wax break loose. I think they come from the feed ramp, because in Bullseye league we have to use OBI's before anyone goes down range, and I think those pieces are loosened up by the OBI being inserted. My theory is those chunks get between the rim and the chamber face and cause light hits.

Next time you clean your kit, use a toothpick, and see if the residue is waxy. You can scrape it off, and it will stick together in clumps. It will also build up on the breech face, and partially block the firing pin hole.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 23, 2020, 11:48:17 AM
450 shots of CCI SV without light strikes !
In box 6 one time the slide did not stay open on the last round.
I started with a Kadet reviewed to have no uncalled lube on the rails or hammer area. To avoid the FP getting disturbed by any fluid.
Same setting with 17lb hs, ball pen FP spring, FP4, two handed. With the last box i could hold all hits inside the nine ring on the target.

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 23, 2020, 11:53:26 AM
Hello Painter,
thank you for the patronage.
As you saw on the pictures there is some dirt. When i scrape it off it is more like compressed dust in contact areas like slide to barrel. Or less compressed dust in the other areas. These chunks could also cause lightstrikes getting to dirt sensitive areas. I think i also understand what you describe as waxy. Because i had tested Gecko Semi-Auto wich was very waxy. Another brand was more like very luby.. Both sorts displeasing to handle. The CCI`s are tactile unremarkable.

Feed ramp and barrel face after 450 shots CCI SV
(https://i.imgur.com/s03Tm6Y.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 23, 2020, 12:03:02 PM
First time ever i found a deformed round in the CCI `s.
(https://i.imgur.com/W3fBmx8.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 27, 2020, 04:23:51 PM
No light strikes also in todays shooting. Same configuration with 17 lb hs, FP4 in ball pen spring, recoil spring 92mm. One and two handed holds.
In the first box of 4 CCI SV i had one failiure to feed and one stove pipe. In 100 shots RWS Target Rifle no issues. As always faultless working shooting
with the 9mm shadow 1 upper.

FP4 dents in rims of CCI SV and RWS Target Rifle

(https://i.imgur.com/jA3XBFc.jpg)


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on February 28, 2020, 07:46:01 AM

 light strikes


For all interested in curing light strikes i give a résumé here out of the previous pages. Of the current measures i took on my Kadet 2 conversion kit on a SP-01 Shadow frame. Until here. Also i was heading to get it working with the CCI SV.  Every gun is a law unto itself it is said. On your gun something else could be the cause. All hints where given by or found in the Kadet Klub forum.

-  Because i adjusted my (self installed SA) trigger set screw in a too tight way, the movement of the trigger was to little for its entire task : To lift the sear enough to get it completely over - and out of the way of the second (half cock) notch. The gunsmith opened the little hex grub screw about one to two turns. And the hammer is freely moving down. Before he was delayed on the way down to hit the firing pin. That´s reduced it`s force hitting the FP.

- Hammer- / mainspring. I am using a 17 lb or stronger one. Standard is 18-20 lb.
I think the kadet conversion kit was made for work with the stadard hs. With standard velocity ammo, i use CCI SV, it could be helpfull to go down to 17 lb to avoid other issues. Like slide not staying open on the last round. Ammo not getting striped from the mag into the chamber. Maybe stove pipes.

- I cut down the recoil spring to 92 mm/ 3.62 inches.

- Improvements to make the slide gliding well. Looking for places, springs, parts connected with the movement of the slide. My FP retaining plate was scratching on the upper. The magazine follower was disturbed by a to long edge of the slide stop. The slide stop spring was to ease too.

- Shortened firing pin spring or a ball pen spring. Not all fit in.. Or another lighter sping. If it is too light the FP retaining plate and the FP get ejected while shooting.

- Reshaped firing pin. FP4 is my favorite in the moment. Kept the wideness to cover priming area but avoid hitting the pure brass rim area. Thank you painter.

- Straight FP. Once i found a bend FP in the FP channel. Probably happend when polishing it in a dril press..

- Absolutely no residues of oil or lube around the FP area, in the channel, under the FP retaining plate or on areas from where it could get moved close to the FP assembly. Not leaving superfluous lube on the rails. It possibly gets translatory motioned under the firing pin retaining plate. And then gets pumped into the FP channel too. Where it affects the movement of the FP. Thank you painter.

- A gunsmith checked and maybe reduced the headspace.

- Keeping the contact area from slide to barrel face clean
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 01, 2020, 02:43:12 PM
In todays shooting no light strikes, again! Same combo of springs as before. Also started with a lube thouroghly wiped of Kadet again.   
3 boxes of RWS Target Rifle and 2 boxes of CCI SV went through with no issues. 2 or 3 times i saw the spent case snuggish rolling out of the ejection port. The brass was not ejected properly. Not sure if it was on the last round only. Will have a look on this. Fell down just aside the pistol. Where is that coming from ? Maybe i modified the ejector to much.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on March 01, 2020, 05:04:23 PM
If it were I, I'd call it success and enjoy the fruits of my efforts.

That's just me.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on March 03, 2020, 06:54:29 AM
 Just for loughs and giggles try to convert your Shadow to SA using TS original hammer. I have the same Kadet, bought used, manufactured in 95, with round FP. Ended up moding about everything. New style chizzle head FP, moded retaining plate, extractor, ejector etcetc. If you have original SADA hammer, examine if hammer hits upper part of Kadet. CZ SA hammer https://www.cz-spare.parts/cz-hammer-sa-sw-ts-cz while it works well in 9mm, hits Kadet FP little low. TS original hits right where it should hit. Also- TS original weighs 1 gram (dunno about your Imperial stuff) and mass seems to matter. Alot. Lighter hammer seems to lack good old oomph. Heavier hammer all things being equal, dents the primer kinda more deeply. I am using 13 pound (DUH your Imperial) hammer spring just to be sure, but even 11 ignites SB SV about 100 percent. Besides TS hammer is much more better made than Shadow one.
 Just my metric 2 cents:) Greetings from Estonia.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on March 03, 2020, 03:46:03 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49615233596_43c26df8df_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49614718783_dc7d974619_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49615489942_57d954734f_b.jpg)

I couldn't get an ID.

Hope it helps you find a spring.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 05, 2020, 04:56:30 AM
Hello Painter,
thanks for posting. The inner diameter (ID) should be 2,7-2,8 mm following the firing pin and the original spring?
Thanks for using the metric switch on your sliding caliper. In wich i write down the findings (dimensions offer without obligation).




                     Original              CGW              ball pen                           possible fromto    looking for from to
length             33                    28,5               24                                  24 - 33                24-33       
wire dia           0,5                   0,38               0,3      (size of material)     0,4 - 0,2              0,3 - 0,25       
OD                  3,85                 3,77               4,1                                 3,3 - 4,1              3,4 - 3,9
ID                   2,8         approx.2,8(+)            3,45                                2,8 - 3,4              2,8 - 3,4
coil count         27                    20                 12                                  10  -  33              12  -  25


                               


Harvesting a few ball pen springs i may report that not all fit in the FP channel because of the outer diameter. The choosen one i stretched a little to have more tension for keeping the retaining plate in place. I was asking myself if the inner diameter is also a sort of assisting guidance to hold the FP in a defined place to hit the rimfire constantly in the exact same place. But then i decided that the necking in the end of the channel will guide the FP tip mainly.

mm to inch conversion chart
https://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm (https://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm)

           
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 05, 2020, 07:33:31 AM
Just for loughs and giggles try to convert your Shadow to SA using TS original hammer. I have the same Kadet, bought used, manufactured in 95, with round FP. Ended up moding about everything. New style chizzle head FP, moded retaining plate, extractor, ejector etcetc. If you have original SADA hammer, examine if hammer hits upper part of Kadet. CZ SA hammer https://www.cz-spare.parts/cz-hammer-sa-sw-ts-cz while it works well in 9mm, hits Kadet FP little low. TS original hits right where it should hit. Also- TS original weighs 1 gram (dunno about your Imperial stuff) and mass seems to matter. Alot. Lighter hammer seems to lack good old oomph. Heavier hammer all things being equal, dents the primer kinda more deeply. I am using 13 pound (DUH your Imperial) hammer spring just to be sure, but even 11 ignites SB SV about 100 percent. Besides TS hammer is much more better made than Shadow one.
 Just my metric 2 cents:) Greetings from Estonia.


Hello Andres,
thank you for the references using and modifying the Kadet !
From the shop from your link i also got spare parts from. Ordering the heavier TS hammer i follow you is the right action for the oomph. It is more then hundred Euros to get it on my table. For now i put in on my wishlist. Is the link the hammer you go for ?
The SA conversion is done. The hammer of my shadow 1 where i run the Kadet2 kit on it (chisel style tip FP), hits the FP end and its retaining plate first. Maybe the upper got touched also a little bit in the end of the movement. I was ignoring that widely until now. Thanks for bringing that into focus !
Wat kind of mods you made to your retaining plate, extractor, ejector ?




Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 05, 2020, 09:10:26 AM
SP-01 Shadow hammer hitting slide housing (upper) on kadet2 conversion kit

(https://i.imgur.com/FukbCJq.jpg)

Hammer hits the FP end and its retaining plate first ? Maybe the slide housing gets then touched also a little bit in the end of the movement ?

(https://i.imgur.com/1ilkXXy.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 05, 2020, 09:37:05 AM
The work on improofing the dents in the rimfire brass gets more dental.  ::)
Colouring the area with contact points indicating spray..

Prosthetic work occlusion spray

(https://i.imgur.com/YJOjmnO.jpg)



sprayed on in minty condition

(https://i.imgur.com/hu1syXz.jpg?1)



contact points after one hammer fall, yes, the upper is stricken

(https://i.imgur.com/wesZF4x.jpg?1)



contact points after 5 hammer falls, just wanted to try if there is a difference, which is not obviously

(https://i.imgur.com/bFsYyBY.jpg)



Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 05, 2020, 11:08:04 AM
had a tool with just the right width around to work with, then
check 1 markings, dentally conclusion:

still a little hammer overbite
(https://i.imgur.com/mw9lqIX.jpg)
just a little more clearing
then
a minty fresh layer marking spray
(https://i.imgur.com/aQZN0qM.jpg)

check 2 markings
(https://i.imgur.com/CoArHQP.jpg)

Successfull neutral occlusion - normal hammer bite.  ::)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on March 06, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
 TS hammer is the older style, https://www.ipscstore.com/et/cz-75-tactical-sports/505-cz-75-ts-kukk.html , it is about 1 gram heavier than CZ SA hammer, by added bonus it makes racking the slide easier compared to stock hammer. Also makes trigger MUCH better, compared to stock.
Basically I made same mods mentioned in this thread. Also made FP protrude little more from the retaining plate by chamfering FP part, which rests against retaining plate. And retaining plate corresponding surface.
 Ejector mod was probly in the same forum? Reshaping it, so spent casings will eject higher. Thats about it.

 Cheers
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 06, 2020, 03:22:12 PM
Good results.

Does the CCI SV leave a lot of wax on the feed ramp? I can't tell from the picture.

Hello Painter thanks for asking,
why are you asking especially for that?
Yes there is some dirt. Like on the other areas who are visible on the picture.  Next time i will try to examine what kind of dirt it is. Are you suspect the dirt from the feed ramp to provoke light strikes ? Like getting between rim and chamber face ? Or inhibit the cartridge getting fully seated ?
The CCI SV I have is very waxy. Most of it is several years old, and bought for too much money...lol.

Sometimes you'll see chunks of wax break loose. I think they come from the feed ramp, because in Bullseye league we have to use OBI's before anyone goes down range, and I think those pieces are loosened up by the OBI being inserted. My theory is those chunks get between the rim and the chamber face and cause light hits.

Next time you clean your kit, use a toothpick, and see if the residue is waxy. You can scrape it off, and it will stick together in clumps. It will also build up on the breech face, and partially block the firing pin hole.



Here we use something like Open Bolt Indicators (OBI) or Empty Chamber Indicators (ECI). It is a plastic thread from a brushcutter we stick in the barrel.
It has to be seen on both ends. It`s thinness maybe helps to prevent loosening chunks ? Removed from a spool it is curved what helps to thread in the barrel from the chamber side without touching residue. Or put in from the front it just comes out of the ejection port.




Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on March 06, 2020, 03:31:59 PM
I've used that as well as a long zip tie, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

By the time you get to 3-400 rounds, it needs a cleaning.

I can live with that.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 07, 2020, 02:56:57 PM
TS hammer is the older style, https://www.ipscstore.com/et/cz-75-tactical-sports/505-cz-75-ts-kukk.html , it is about 1 gram heavier than CZ SA hammer, by added bonus it makes racking the slide easier compared to stock hammer. Also makes trigger MUCH better, compared to stock.
 Cheers

Hello Andres B,

so wich one of both mentioned hammers you recomend for better rimfire ignition ?

https://www.cz-spare.parts/cz-hammer-sa-sw-ts-cz
or
https://www.ipscstore.com/et/cz-75-tactical-sports/505-cz-75-ts-kukk.html

Thanks

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on March 07, 2020, 03:03:47 PM
Second one.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 07, 2020, 03:16:19 PM
Second one.
Thanks for the quik response!
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 07, 2020, 03:35:28 PM
Second one.
Thanks for the quik response!

That hammer they write it is part no 16 and it is the same in the shadow 1 and Tactical Sport .40 sw.
Simplyfiying for me it is the same hammer wich is my shadow 1 frame already equipped and i use my kadet conversion kit with.

https://www.ipscstore.com/catalogs/ipscstore_czsp01shadow_ts40sw_oemparts.pdf (https://www.ipscstore.com/catalogs/ipscstore_czsp01shadow_ts40sw_oemparts.pdf)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on March 07, 2020, 03:56:23 PM
 Nope. TS and Shadow use different hammers.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 08, 2020, 11:56:31 AM
Nope. TS and Shadow use different hammers.

Orderd the recomended TS hammer for affordable 28,10 Dollar / 24,90 Euro inclu shipping in Europe. It is an offer at the present.

https://www.ipscstore.com/en/cz-75-tactical-sports/505-cz-75-ts-hammer.html (https://www.ipscstore.com/en/cz-75-tactical-sports/505-cz-75-ts-hammer.html)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 08, 2020, 12:09:43 PM
65 shots without lightstrikes or other issues on a "one hand 50 Meter Bullseye match". RWS Target Rifle ammo. Was my second retry on that distance.. Average was a 6,6 ..  ::)
 Regardless of the results i like the exercise.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 11, 2020, 01:56:28 PM
Hello Painter,
thanks for posting. The inner diameter (ID) should be 2,7-2,8 mm following the firing pin and the original spring?
Thanks for using the metric switch on your sliding caliper. In wich i write down the findings (dimensions offer without obligation).




                     Original              CGW              ball pen                           possible fromto    looking for from to
length             33                    28,5               24                                  24 - 33                24-33       
wire dia           0,5                   0,38               0,3      (size of material)     0,4 - 0,2              0,3 - 0,25       
OD                  3,85                 3,77               4,1                                 3,3 - 4,1              3,4 - 3,9
ID                   2,8         approx.2,8(+)            3,45                                2,8 - 3,4              2,8 - 3,4
coil count         27                    20                 12                                  10  -  33              12  -  25


                               


Harvesting a few ball pen springs i may report that not all fit in the FP channel because of the outer diameter. The choosen one i stretched a little to have more tension for keeping the retaining plate in place. I was asking myself if the inner diameter is also a sort of assisting guidance to hold the FP in a defined place to hit the rimfire constantly in the exact same place. But then i decided that the necking in the end of the channel will guide the FP tip mainly.

mm to inch conversion chart
https://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm (https://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm)

         


Leesprings.de was so kind to send me a preselection list.Already set variables are OD with maximum 3,9mm, ID minimum 2,7mm and length from 23-33mm.
First part of the list from where i choosed :
(https://i.imgur.com/gm7yeJY.png)

I marked the 4 springs i am interested to try instead of the ball pen spring i actually use.
(https://i.imgur.com/6o9IMOf.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on March 11, 2020, 05:30:03 PM
I would choose the second one from the top that you highlighted.

Keep in mind that wire diameter is one of the most important factors in the 'strength' of a spring. Lighter springs are typically longer than stiffer springs.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 18, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Hello Painter,

i work on getting that spring. But the present vendor i found wants to have quite a lot of extra money just to work on the order, because i just need a little quantity of two. Besides the shipping costs and the higher single unit price.. Maybe i get it somewhere else.

But there is no need for speed actually. My surrounding region germany is ruled by the "discovery of slowness". Because of the goverments reactions to the epedemic flu all gun ranges are closed at least from today on. And schools, kindergardens, my workplace, clubs, some borders, some shops. To stay at home is recommended even it is no official curfew at the moment.

 So the shooting training is at home and in dry fire modus only. With the SCATT mounted i can practise at home and see the computed hits and the path of aiming on the screen. Seeing the ball of wool like aiming line i can try to get it tighter. And realising the meanderings and deviations when pulling the trigger in replay helps trying to correct towards a better neutral hold. I started shooting in my late fourties and decided to nerd in a little to catch up to the level of my shooting colleagues with decades of experience. I am sure that all can be learned with the same amount of training without the SCATT in regular dry fire and hot fire exercises. But i like the graphics aid and revelation what is happening watched in this way.



SCATT mounted on air pistol Steyr evo 10, home drill distance set on 4,8 meter
(https://i.imgur.com/FC8EGx9.jpg)


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: painter on March 18, 2020, 02:48:40 PM
Too bad about the springs.

That SCATT unit is a pricey unit over here. :o
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 19, 2020, 03:34:33 PM
It is pricey here too. Especially in relation to my income.. ::)
So it is quite special to me and i use it more often happy to have it. And to legitimate the holding to myself..


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 20, 2020, 08:54:30 AM
Too bad about the springs.


It is even getting worser. Because of just two springs and for hobby use i asked for a cheap envelope shipping and drop of the 15 Euro additional charge for orders under 50 Euro. The retailer wrote it is cash before delivery and sent me a acceptance of order without the 15 Euro in the summation, a total of 4,83 Euro.  Then i did prepay the total invoice price due to the sellers acceptance of order. 4,83 Euro, wich is not a low but a fair price. Yesterday they mailed me a bill including the 15 Euro, the springs are on the way. I refused in my answering mail to pay a additional rise of the price. Today they wrote i have to pay it when keeping the parcel. I answered i haven`t because the accepted my bank transfer due to their acceptance of order and confirmed it with starting shipping.

this years crazy spring time
 ::)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on March 24, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
Nope. TS and Shadow use different hammers.

Orderd the recomended TS hammer for affordable 28,10 Dollar / 24,90 Euro inclu shipping in Europe. It is an offer at the present.

https://www.ipscstore.com/en/cz-75-tactical-sports/505-cz-75-ts-hammer.html (https://www.ipscstore.com/en/cz-75-tactical-sports/505-cz-75-ts-hammer.html)

CZ 75 TS hammer

(https://i.imgur.com/Od8nIIo.jpg)


CZ 75 TS hammer along almost original CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow hammer (edge rounded to not interfere with the FP retaining plate)

(https://i.imgur.com/zpxMga7.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on March 25, 2020, 04:06:18 AM
That's the one. When you put them side by side, differences will become more obvious. Very different animal. You must fit the sear, tho, to make safety operational. Nothing too difficult. Lots on info in this forum. TS hammer hooks are cut very similar to other aftermarket SA ,,sport'' hammers, hooks are much lower etc. SA trigger needs adjustment too.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on April 03, 2020, 04:21:09 AM
Do you notice any difference in precision shooting the heavier hammer ?
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on April 14, 2020, 10:35:52 AM
Still all the shooting ranges are closed in my living area in south germany. Besides many other things. So dry firing training is still prioritized.
To make it more diversified i also try 50Meters one handed.

(https://i.imgur.com/1HL9jCi.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 17, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
8 weeks (shut down) shooting range pausing ended this week. Todays kadet setting; FP spring 0,25mm wire gauge, length 32mm. And a little shim of 0,1mm between upper and slide on the recoil spring housing. CCI SV. 400 shots one and two handed on 25 meters.
Started the first box of 50 rounds with a original length recoil spring - but got 5 failiures to feed. The slide did not strip the next round from the magazine. 2 times the slide did not stayed open on the last shot, also. Exchanged the recoil spring with the shortened variant and everything was fine for the next 3 packages. Light strike number one with box number 5 and a stove pipe. Had a look inside. Quite dirty. I kept on shooting without cleaning. Box 6 ran fine. But some of the first rounds of a new inserted mag did not chamber well wich appeared more often now. Box 7 one light strike and box 8 four light strikes. Will try to install the TS hammer some day, for testing how far i get it running without light strikes and without cleaning in between.


CCI SV dirt after 400 shots, ramp blockade

(https://i.imgur.com/9kROVtS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/J1wCwAT.jpg)


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 24, 2020, 09:26:32 AM
Sunday gunday. Not a single light strike today with 320 shots of CCI SV ammo.
On the first shots a failiure to feed. The lead nose of the round hang up on the ramp. My mags can not take 10 rounds. Usually i take maximum 7 or 8. But the number eigth already sits very tight in the mag.
On the last shots one time the slide did not stay open. In between the second pack of fifty, i thought having a light strikes with one cartridge. Tryed it two times. Then ejected it manually to check. There was no hit mark on the rim what lead me to check my firing pin. Because of the weak fp-spring i use since last time the fp-stop loosened, went over and blocked the FP. Built in the sping strechted a little, and went on.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 06, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
That sunday i started with a original length recoil spring to use the kadet two handed with hv .22 ammo.
The firing pin stop got loose and blocked the FP. So i changed the ball pen FP spring back to the much stronger original but shortened FP spring. The gun worked as well with the CCI HV as the CCI SV. In our half open space urban gun club on sundays only .22 lr is used to avoid noise load.
I shot the kadet with the scatt mounted to have a look on the trace of my aiming and trigger pull when life-firing it.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 06, 2020, 11:34:57 AM
Some quick shots of the setup Kadet + SCATT
(https://i.imgur.com/S4ktzLw.jpg)
You can understand the tracing line intuitively an try to correct your handling.
When calibrated with a few shots and the spotting scope there is no need to change the target any more, the hits are shown on the monitor. And a lot of statistics.

DenStinnet`s modification is done to get the UpLULA-KADET
(https://i.imgur.com/jNkmlkn.jpg)

Scatt mounted on a scatt Picatinny clamp on the Shadow 1 rail. We had to shim, modify, helicoil and glue the clamp with Loctite 638 to the rail to stay there even shoting the Shadow in 9mm. Probably the other, the new Picatinny PRO clamp is working better.
(https://i.imgur.com/RdP9Tz8.jpg)

Distance 25 meters.
(https://i.imgur.com/adpjSlf.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 18, 2020, 10:26:18 AM
Just for loughs and giggles try to convert your Shadow to SA using TS original hammer. I have the same Kadet, bought used, manufactured in 95, with round FP. Ended up moding about everything. New style chizzle head FP, moded retaining plate, extractor, ejector etcetc. If you have original SADA hammer, examine if hammer hits upper part of Kadet. CZ SA hammer https://www.cz-spare.parts/cz-hammer-sa-sw-ts-cz while it works well in 9mm, hits Kadet FP little low. TS original hits right where it should hit. Also- TS original weighs 1 gram (dunno about your Imperial stuff) and mass seems to matter. Alot. Lighter hammer seems to lack good old oomph. Heavier hammer all things being equal, dents the primer kinda more deeply. I am using 13 pound (DUH your Imperial) hammer spring just to be sure, but even 11 ignites SB SV about 100 percent. Besides TS hammer is much more better made than Shadow one.
 Just my metric 2 cents:) Greetings from Estonia.

Hello Andres,
built in the heavier Tactical Sports (TS) hammer today. Will test it tomorrow,for (not having) light strikes with the CCI SV.

left: TS right: original

(https://i.imgur.com/zCGmlcy.jpg?1)

The hammer strut pin i had to press in with the vice.
TS hammer without disconnector. I use a single action trigger anyway.

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 18, 2020, 10:37:17 AM
For disassembly and reassembly i had a look on these helpfull sites:

https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/break-down-and-polish-of-cz-75-sp01-tactical-75-bd-p01.30231/ (https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/break-down-and-polish-of-cz-75-sp01-tactical-75-bd-p01.30231/)

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=14688.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=14688.0)

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=17104.0 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=17104.0)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635FY1ituzM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635FY1ituzM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnixFxN6Kec (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnixFxN6Kec)


It worked out, all parts on the table. HS 17lb wolff.

(https://i.imgur.com/FtOYJXz.jpg)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 18, 2020, 11:02:44 AM
Adustment of the over travel screw due to that description :

https://czcustom.com/knowledge-base/general/how-do-i-adjust-the-over-travel-screw-on-cz-pistols.html (https://czcustom.com/knowledge-base/general/how-do-i-adjust-the-over-travel-screw-on-cz-pistols.html)

 ::)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 18, 2020, 11:22:31 AM
The new TS hammer also has a edge wich is rattling a little

(https://i.imgur.com/GMDhrRC.jpg)

rattling slightly where hammer, slide and firing pin stop are meeting
(https://i.imgur.com/UjfikiN.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 19, 2020, 09:44:40 AM
NO light strikes with the TacticalSports hammer on 300 CCI SV today. Thanks for the recommendation by Andres B.  8)

Wolff hammer spring 17 lb, standard length kadet recoil spring, shortened original firing pin spring with 0.95 inch/24mm , FP4 with modified tip (page 9) see dents . Two hand grip.
 The trigger pull feeling changed a little because the notch in the hammer is not modified like in the original hammer notch who was worked over by the gunsmith. The creep is now a little bit longer but very steady and predictable. Allows me training what i picked up reading articles from Brian Zins. Gives time to watch the front sight while pulling. To correct the trigger pull to hold or to move the front post in the desired position. By the active finger. So i can use the creeping way for training my abductor indicis muscle coordination.
The shot breaks slightly over 1 Kg = 2,2 lb. Wich is the minimum allowed by my clubs rules. A lighter trigger spring is built in.
With the fifth box i tried to simulate a 9mm strong grip and instantly gained two times the slide not staying open on the last round. Until i noticed pressing the slide release lever too strong with the left thumb.
 ::)

TS Hammer cases top 3 rows    vs    SP-01 shadow hammer dents (same FP, HS)

(https://i.imgur.com/TRC7gSF.jpg?1)

Ordinary residue with 300 shots CCI SV

(https://i.imgur.com/xTk1Ss5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DiXK5mu.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on July 19, 2020, 03:04:14 PM
Cool. You can clean this little bump up a bit and polish. Mine works fine, but guns are different and mine is much more modified.
Now, just for loughs and giggles, try SB SV ammo and 13ish lbs main spring.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on July 19, 2020, 03:32:15 PM
 And if you have SA trigger like this https://www.cz-spare.parts/trigger-sa-tactical-sport-black  then it has 2 adjustment screws, 1 outside adjusts overtravel, other one, accessible from inside of frame, adjusts pretravel. Total trigger travel measured from the tip of the trigger, could be around 3mm.
 Did the safety need fitting?
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 19, 2020, 06:33:04 PM
Hei Andres B,

more and more good ideas i get here in the KadetKlub.

Using Sellier & Bellot ammo would be the most logic and close geografical .22 lr´s to use in the CZ.
Maybe it is also very precise like often in the CZ guns ammo tests the standard S&B ammo performs quite well.
What is your experience with S&B ? What types you use ?
I will try weaker mainsprings. First test are to find out how reliable that hammer is with the standard hammer spring - in relation to the dirt. How many hundred rounds of CCI SV until light strikes appear.

I was thinking about polishing the cocking notch but didn`t for the first try. The half cock notch i reduced before building in, by rule of thumb and it worked out well, to not interfere with the adjustment of the over travel screw.
I have exactely the trigger built in you linked. But i didn`t had a clue that there is the possibility for setting the pretravel ! But the thread is there and ready to take a (hex) socket head screw. That is nice because one handed my grip is diffrent to two handed and my trigger finger could need a more backward trigger to get a better position.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on July 20, 2020, 03:13:30 AM
It is just the cheapest Sellier .22 ammo. Standard written on the box, goes for around 8 eurocents per 100 here in Estonia. LRN, 330m/s. And yeh, it's dirty, but the dirt is different. Bullets are covered with some kind of grease, probly moly, not wax. Otherwise, feeds well, works well etc. Dunno about accuracy.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on July 20, 2020, 09:41:14 AM
 And do this https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=85892.0
 Thanks, Tok, what a simple, yet effective mod. I used a broken 2mm drill bit. Zero cost. Sweet.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 21, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
Excellent idea - description and pics in the link.  8)
Will give it a try to feel if it gets better indeed.

Did first measurements, all approx.

dia original pin 2,19 mm (0.086 inch) but it is a kind of a loose fit, will give it a little bit more radius for a snug fit maybe 2,22 mm (0.087 inch)
length orig. pin 6,75 mm (0.265 inch)

new length to customize 13 mm (0.511)

dia drill end 2,47 mm

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 22, 2020, 05:08:30 PM
Hello Andres B,
added a makeshift 3 mm metric threaded bar to the trigger to reduce pretravel. Much better now to get a good trigger finger position one handed.  8)
With a allen set screw it maybe would be possible to adjust it from the inside of the frame with a ball hex.

(https://i.imgur.com/5hpAnxE.jpg)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 22, 2020, 05:26:35 PM
Hello Andres B,
followed the lovely and detailed Loose Sear Cage Fix link you`ve revealed.  8)
In the lunch hour i visited a workplace close mechanical camera workshop and assorted two boxes with used parts. Found a pin who was partially half split in length. Reduced the filing time and fitted fast.

rock solid sitting sear cage with custom hammer pin retaining peg
(https://i.imgur.com/vejZKTD.jpg)

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=85892.msg641223#msg641223 (https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=85892.msg641223#msg641223)

Way better pics in the link !
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 22, 2020, 05:44:30 PM
The trigger is still traveling before the click. The sear cage was originaly also sitting tight, to praise CZ. I just like to work on these mechanics myself.
I use the creeping trigger trying to focus on the sights shooting precision targets. So i have time to watch the front post and adjust my hold and pull to keep it more steady.
Later, when in better control of the sights, i maybe will work to get a cleaner "glass like" "solid wall" break.
In the meantime i can gather information how to file the notch. About the angles. Suppose it has to do a lot with experiance.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 23, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
Even stove pipes are very rare with the stove pipe mod i am interested in what way the spent shells take out of the ejection port. And if there is a modifikation necessary of the angles i filed. To may be get the brass thrown out directly without hitting the metall surface before reaching the outer ballistic area.

Modified ejector and tootpick pointing to assumed engaging area.
(https://i.imgur.com/zPt01ha.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qVJpYT6.jpg?1)




A thin layer of the dental occlusionspray on the ejection area showed me the contact points of the empty .22lr cases in that area and on the ejector.

First ejection of CCI SV
(https://i.imgur.com/RQwMQBj.jpg)

More brass hits of CCI SV (and stains)
(https://i.imgur.com/yu66ErR.jpg)

Faster ammo (and stains)
(https://i.imgur.com/DTwaXOf.jpg)

On the ejector
(https://i.imgur.com/DlKz3aY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/66lvBsR.jpg)




Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 23, 2020, 03:34:26 PM
No light strikes today. Just one failiure to feed on the very first rounds. 200 CCI SV plus 50 RWS Target Rifle.
Tested some firing pin springs and sampled the cases to compare dents. Tactical sports hammer, FP4, Wolff hammer spring 17 lb, sear cage mod.

Top down
no cases  original length standard FP spring
CCI SV cases ignited with shortened original FPspring
CCI SV cases ignited with this ball pen spring, unusual and rare the firing pin stop loosens and blocks the FP (one in thousend +)
CCI SC cases ignited with to fine spring, FP and FP stop flew out (one in 20)
RWS Target Rifle ignited with shortened original FPspring
CCI SV cases ignited with shortened original FPspring again
Ruler in mm

(https://i.imgur.com/ZUFHqwv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/on3z8BS.jpg)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on July 24, 2020, 10:06:23 AM
 And, yeah, try Sellier.
 Went shooting Kadet with some Lapua SV ammo I got for cheap. It was in the tin can and they don't produce it any more. Hollow points with kinda squared tip. Very old can it was. Ammo looked good, tho. And burned exceptionally clean. No residue whatsoever.
 While this same ammo worked quite well with old recoil spring came with Kadet (1994), occasional FTF, it started developing fails with brand new original CZ recoil spring. All of them fails. Except for FTF. If it feeded, it fired. Shortstroking after shortstroking. Very annoying, goddamit. Sellier, being quite dirty, on the other hand, worked 100 with both springs. Go figure. At first I thought, my 12 yr old daughter was limpwristing, very fresh shooter she is, but I wasn't, right:) How can grown up man limpwrist freakin .22. Even midget, holding his .22 with two fingers, can't accomplish this.
 I don't mind cleaning my toys. To get dirty, first they have to work.
 Conclusions - probly mentioned ammo is underpowered or uses very slow burning powder meant for bolt action rifles. Or is just plain old. Lapua is quality brand after all. And recoil spring weight plays much more role than expected in .22LR pistol. And LRN seems to feed better than HP. Ancient original recoil spring is shorter than new (but used couple of hundreds for now) by 10-12mm.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on July 24, 2020, 10:30:02 AM
 So, being gobsmacked by dramatic effect of recoil springs, measured both, old and new spring. Difference on lenght is 6mm, wire thickness being 0,9mm both. Didn't count the coils tho.
 Dunno bout your imperial weird inches and feet.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 25, 2020, 10:38:33 AM
Differences in 3 fresh recoil springs, ruler in mm centimeter
(https://i.imgur.com/FpXMdla.jpg)

Also have a new one with 113 mm.

Testing cut down recoil spring lenth for CCI SV
(https://i.imgur.com/8rgQBsI.jpg)

Actually i use the original length recoil spring with "100" mm with the CCI SV ammo,
90mm was too short, and with 93mm i am still not sure if something in the gun gets forged or dammaged.
To have a better ejection trajectory i could test the shorter springs. But at the moment i think the angle of my ejector needs to be filed different. I have to check this with empty cases as it was suggested. And to think into.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 26, 2020, 09:01:12 AM
Tested the TS hammer with a 16lb hammer spring, wich is the lowest lb i have, and my standard ammo CCI SV.
Prooven FP4 and the shortened original FP spring installed. Plus the original length recoil spring.
On the first 5 shots loaded in the magazin i got 3 stove pipes, some light strikes and failiures to feed. Sometimes troubles just come within the first few shots and disappear.
Maybe because of the diss-and reassembly and cleaning. So i went on. The next 250 something shots it worked fine. Maybe the brandnew spring was not completely seated on the ground of the spring housing. In the last box i had 2 light strikes. Between round 250 and 300. Maybe a little bit early but not bad considering the shortened but strong original FP spring. Built it back to the 17 lb hs. Somehow i like the effectiveness of 17 
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 26, 2020, 09:30:27 AM
No visual differences to see for me. Measurements of imprint depht would be more meaningful.. ::)
First and second row 17lb hs
third and fourth row 16lb hs
(https://i.imgur.com/kADpsto.jpg)
samo shot with flash
(https://i.imgur.com/deaSGur.jpg)

Measurements of imprint depht: Would have to downsize the tip of the caliper to get into the dent..
Or add a needle..
 ::)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Metal Wonder Nine Guy on July 26, 2020, 10:16:33 PM
And here was I about to ask if the 16 lb hammer spring had some reliable ignition. Thanks for the pics.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 27, 2020, 06:33:52 AM
And here was I about to ask if the 16 lb hammer spring had some reliable ignition. Thanks for the pics.

I`d would say - depends on the gun,the mods done to, the ammo, ...
I´ve read on the pages from some Kadets running with the 13 lb hs reliable.
I´ve read that the rule is 17 lb minimum, for my Kadet i would confirm that for the moment.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Joe L on July 27, 2020, 07:27:48 AM
joerchi69--After cleaning the barrel and chamber, the chamber is dry and it will drag some because it is a tight chamber compared to US pistols.  I usually add a drop of oil to the top round brass case in the first magazine to get a little lubrication in the chamber after cleaning when I get to the range.  If you don't do that, it takes a while for some of the wax or whatever is on the bullets to build up in the chamber so that the chamber drag is minimized.  You could also finish off the cleaning session with a q-tip and a drop of oil and just apply it to the chamber itself before heading to the range. 
Joe
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 27, 2020, 08:03:55 AM
Little intro "how i handle de- and installing the firing pin"

I put the slide on the table upside down, i take a deep breath and imagine the universe in perfect balance

Left palm is pressing slide down to the table (righty) while left thumb and left pointer finger reach the firing pin stop.

The special firing pin disassembly and Kadet tuning tool (ball pen) or its plastic guide rod presses the FP as straight as possible into the FPstop and lifts him slowly up to get secured by the two fingers feeling the movement up. Until the spring loaded FP pops out and gets stopped with intend by the right hands fingers holding the tool too. For the first "shots" i would recomend a barrier.  ::) The use of a ball pen was more easy in the beginning than the guide rod. Until i was able to push in the firing pin straight without slipping of the back end of the FP when pushing him in. Especially when reinstalling  ::)

For installing i put in the spring and insert the FP with the flat end up.
Left palm pressure is finding a place on the slide to alow the thumb-pointer- tweezers to hold the FPstop at it`s channel.

From the right side i press the FP as far in as i can place the FPstop on the biggest diameter of the FP or already on the flatted end. While holding the FP upright and pressing him down on the FP - i push the FP with the tool against the springforce linear completely down in its channel. Until the stop and pin clicking into the contemplated position. With a little routine it can be done unobserving randomly.
If you can do this on the first try - you are my hero. Better have a barrier..


Pics mixed tools but in right order, incomplete, but you get it

Dissassembly
(https://i.imgur.com/rANLVOv.jpg)

Finger tweeze the FPstop as you press in FP and lift up FPstop with the tool -
 be aware of sudden spring supported release of the FP  ::)
(https://i.imgur.com/OlUXWgM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/yWppXuz.jpg)



assembly- imagine your fingers beeing part in the process

against the springforce linear
(https://i.imgur.com/JTaIvU3.jpg)

Place FPstop on the biggest diameter of the FP or already on the flatted end
(https://i.imgur.com/RWlLNP5.jpg)

press the FP in to place the FPstop on the biggest diameter of the FP
(https://i.imgur.com/hbbfJeg.jpg?1)

finger tweezers to hold the FPstop at it`s channel
(https://i.imgur.com/ODNDBZ7.jpg)

push FP completely down its channel
(https://i.imgur.com/MEy9iOM.jpg)

stop and pin clicking
(https://i.imgur.com/5Lr8x63.jpg)

No oil or liqid fluna in the FP channel  ::) Wiped and Q-tiped it off before.





Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 27, 2020, 08:12:51 AM
joerchi69--After cleaning the barrel and chamber, the chamber is dry and it will drag some because it is a tight chamber compared to US pistols.  I usually add a drop of oil to the top round brass case in the first magazine to get a little lubrication in the chamber after cleaning when I get to the range.  If you don't do that, it takes a while for some of the wax or whatever is on the bullets to build up in the chamber so that the chamber drag is minimized.  You could also finish off the cleaning session with a q-tip and a drop of oil and just apply it to the chamber itself before heading to the range. 
Joe

Hello Joe,
thanks a lot - i will give that a try, that could have been the troubles with the first 5 rds. On the other hand i clean my complete gun only with Fluna dry lubrication. Inclouding the barrel/chamber/ramp. So there is or should be reduced chamber drag also on the first rounds. The next time i hav probs in the beginning i will add a little Fluna as advised to see.
Greetings
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Metal Wonder Nine Guy on July 27, 2020, 10:23:35 AM
I`d would say - depends on the gun,the mods done to, the ammo, ...
I´ve read on the pages from some Kadets running with the 13 lb hs reliable.
I´ve read that the rule is 17 lb minimum, for my Kadet i would confirm that for the moment.

17 lbs minimum is what I heard is the minimum for a kadet 75.

Strange that some people can get the 13 pound hammer spring to run.... but I have to wonder if those people are running an extended firing pin and extra power firing pin spring.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 27, 2020, 12:59:59 PM
I`d would say - depends on the gun,the mods done to, the ammo, ...
I´ve read on the pages from some Kadets running with the 13 lb hs reliable.
I´ve read that the rule is 17 lb minimum, for my Kadet i would confirm that for the moment.

17 lbs minimum is what I heard is the minimum for a kadet 75.

Strange that some people can get the 13 pound hammer spring to run.... but I have to wonder if those people are running an extended firing pin and extra power firing pin spring.

I´ve read of extended FP`s. I´ve read about shortened shoulders of the biggest dieameter of the FP to give it more travel (in both directions). But not too much - hitting the chamber when having a malfeed or dry fire is to avoid.
I´ve read about FP-tip modifing and copied that to my pins - can help definitely.

I assume you ment a less power firing pin spring. Wich i am still experimenting with. Shortened original. Or springs with a thinner wire. Some ball pen springs fit into the FP channel but sometimes they did not hold the FPstop in my conversion kit, pulling it a little bit longer helped for a certain time. Present wire thickness i try is not under 0,3 mm = 0,011 inch ( wear safety goggles). Better 0,32mm=0,0125inch up to 0,4mm=0,016inch.
If interested there are more threads to find.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on July 30, 2020, 04:53:27 PM
Inserted a new firing pin spring light today for shooting. It held the FPstop in place. Will see if it works for a longer time. No light strikes with 250 CCI SV.
Favorised 17 lb hammer spring. FP4 and original length recoil spring. One stove pipe within box three. May be I will work on the ejection some time. In fall.


                          wire gauge                       outer dia                        length

Original                 0,5mm/ 0,0195inch           3,88mm/ 0,1525inch          33mm/ 1,300inch   

Orig. shorted                "                                       "                          24mm/ 0,950inch

ball pen                0,35mm/ 0,014inch            4,15mm/ 0,1635inch          27mm/ 1,070inch                           

today´s new         0,32mm/ 0,0125inch           3,48mm/ 0,137inch           29mm/ 1,150inch

other new             0,30mm/ 0,012inch            3,95mm/ 0,155inch           37mm/ 1,450inch 

(https://i.imgur.com/M2gF3jb.jpg)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 02, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
Three light strikes today - but with a 13lb hammer spring set in and on 450 shots without cleaning in between. Not bad.
With a little brushing after 250 shots or clean ammo i would expect it running without failiure.

Even i had light strikes with the 16lb hs i couldn`t resist to follow the idea of Andres to test the 13lb.
FPspring light from last time, July 30,( 0,32mm/ 0,0125inch, 3,48mm/ 0,137inch, 29mm/ 1,150inch). FP4. Also i now have installed a loctited hex set pretravel adjusting screw wich i can employ from inside of the slide. It is very relaxing for my trigger finger and shooting hand to get alwas a good position. And i have a better chance to find the appropriate holds on the grip two and one-handed.
With installing the TS trigger i polished some areas like trigger bar and where it is sliding, where the trigger bar springs glide,etc. That, and the procedure of reinstalling that spring maybe, reduced the trigger pull from short over to short under 1 kilo/ 2,20462 lbs, wich is the limit. Trying to lift and shim the trigger spring with a tooth pic segment was not enough to get over 1000g pull wight. So i have to install back the regular trigger spring, to not be disqualified before a match.
With the 13 lb main spring the recoil appeared to be a little bit stronger. 9 boxes of 50 CCI SV emptyed. Within the first 5 shots the one and only stove pipe. On the first box of fifty the ejection of the cases looked short. With the other packages better and mostly far. The next to last round on box six, no. 298 was the first light strike. Dirt supposedly. On the next 2 boxes two more. Box 9 fine.

First row: dirt, wax and residue, as sticking here on the ejected rimfire case, supposedly caused some light strikes trying the 13lb hammer spring
second row: dents no light strikes

(https://i.imgur.com/JqPdfjj.jpg)

two hammersprings/ mainsprings
17lb wolff CZ 75, wire 1,1mm/ 0,0445inch, lenth 63,5mm/ 2,5inch, 29 windings
13lb Hobdell SP-01, wire average "1,07mm/ 0,04inch", length 69mm/ 2,7165inch, 29 windings

(https://i.imgur.com/0oKKAUz.jpg?1)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 02, 2020, 12:51:11 PM
Trigger springs
I realised having not istalled a weaker spring, so i will try a new original wire dimension spring to get over the given trigger pull weight limit of 1000g/1Kilo/ 2,20462 lbs. If it is not working i have to pre bend it a little.

first row original springs 
(https://i.imgur.com/VPHgQyx.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Andres B on August 03, 2020, 01:03:28 AM
You can also try Tanfoglio sear spring, it is little stiffer than CZ one.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on August 04, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
You can also try Tanfoglio sear spring, it is little stiffer than CZ one.
Hi Andres,
thanks again. That thought is new to me. You have some fundamental interactive knowledge !
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 09, 2020, 05:14:45 PM
Yesterday i shot the clubs tournament in 3 disziplines. Two and one handed with the CZ75 SP-01 Shadow with the 9mm barrel. Also one handed with the conversion into the .22lr Kadet on 25 meters using CCI SV ammo, with no issues.
Setting in the CZ was the 17lb hammer spring, tactical sports hammer, regular length recoil spring, the modified FP 4 and the new light FPspring (0,32mm/ 0,0125inch; 3,48mm/ 0,137inch; 29mm/ 1,150inch)
Later i had time to try the first time one box each of Aguilla and S&B. Both ran fine. One light strike with the Sellier&Bellot, wich needed a additional second and third strike to fire. The Aguilla seems less waxy than the other two types. But the burning smells like super glue. The S&B shows fire when leaving the barrel.


(https://i.imgur.com/9W16ML8.jpg?1)


Shooting also a theme somehow on my this years motorcycle tour

Old school steel twisting barrel making method (museum)
(https://i.imgur.com/oVhYB3R.jpg)

old and corrodet double shotgun barrel (museum)
(https://i.imgur.com/qooJVIx.jpg)

Bow and arrow clouds having an coffee break
(https://i.imgur.com/wI3Yyhl.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: DenStinett on October 09, 2020, 06:26:09 PM
Bow and arrow clouds having an coffee break
(https://i.imgur.com/wI3Yyhl.jpg)

Very cool Pic Joe

Waxy Lead .... can't say I've ever used them in any of my Semi Autos
Sounds like you've just about got the KADET sorted-out though
You've really put in the overtime on this   8)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: eastman on October 09, 2020, 09:21:58 PM
the superglue smell is just part of the fun with Aguila .22 ammo. The other part of the fun is that they work very reliably.

Moka pots work great on camping stoves. I use one on a Coleman stove.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 28, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
the superglue smell is just part of the fun with Aguila .22 ammo. The other part of the fun is that they work very reliably.

Hi Eastman,
thanks for the info - i am looking forward to proof the reliability of the Aguila on the range in my Kadet.
Greets
Jörg
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 28, 2020, 10:13:35 AM


Waxy Lead .... can't say I've ever used them in any of my Semi Autos
Sounds like you've just about got the KADET sorted-out though
You've really put in the overtime on this   8)

Yes Den,
it looks like the main part to get my Kadet system running is done.
I would like to swap the ejector to a new, only slightly filed. To get a better ejection timing. But i need some sort of press and it is not urgent.
In the eyes of experiancing a critical undersupply of learning gunsmithing operations -
mercifully some odd and may be broken looking parts came out of the Rossi 92 Puma .44 Rem Mag when starting disasembling and cleaning it. (Had a look in the gift horses mouth.) In a first quick research i found many smoothing manuals of Rossi owners. And hints for a worldwide shortage for purchasing the easy breaking extractors as a spare part.


Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Joe L on October 28, 2020, 02:26:39 PM
joerchi69--When I first saw the museum rifle tools and before I read the caption, I thought you had found some of my Kadet parts!
Joe
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: DenStinett on October 28, 2020, 06:37:13 PM
I would like to swap the ejector to a new, only slightly filed. To get a better ejection timing. But i need some sort of press and it is not urgent.
In the eyes of experiencing a critical undersupply of learning gunsmithing operations
Hey Joe:
I believe all you need is the correct Pin Punch to push out the Ejector's Retaining Pin and a Drift Punch to push the Ejetor out to the rear of its Dovetailed Slot
Then a Full Faced Punch to drive the new Ejector back into place
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: Joe L on October 28, 2020, 07:08:37 PM
Hey Joe:
I believe all you need is the correct Pin Punch to push out the Ejector's Retaining Pin and a Drift Punch to push the Ejetor out to the rear of its Dovetailed Slot
Then a Full Faced Punch to drive the new Ejector back into place

Den is correct here.  Just be very careful not to apply any bending forces to the ejector.  It is very brittle and will not bend, it will snap off. 

I moved my original ejector to a new barrel when I installed it a couple of years ago.

Joe
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: DenStinett on October 29, 2020, 12:05:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7060dzi.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on October 31, 2020, 04:28:05 PM
Thanks to you folks for the installment advices. I appreciate that very much, indeed.
I will report when i went on with that. Looking forward.
Greets Joe
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: st.attila on December 23, 2020, 08:13:53 AM
Thanks for sharing this journey in such great detail.  I know it was not embarked upon intentionally.
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on January 26, 2021, 08:57:24 AM
Welcome ! Detailed description is getting the pro`s in the boat. Their help led to success. Wich can not be enjoyed because of months and months of lockdown here in Germoney.. quite a 1984 style of odyssey for freedom for all the peoples of the world, i guess.  ::)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 02, 2021, 11:28:34 AM
First range training day this year. Last was more than a half year ago.. guess why  ::)
Did some dry fire and SCATT training at home so it was not too desastrous. But far away from former outcomes.
The kadet however showed 100 % reliability in igniting 4 different sorts of ammo. Cant rate accuracy of the ammo because of my not available groups.
The setting in the CZ was as last time in oktober, the 17lb hammer spring, tactical sports hammer, regular length recoil spring, the modified FP 4 and the new light FPspring (0,32mm/ 0,0125inch; 3,48mm/ 0,137inch; 29mm/ 1,150inch).
Circa with shot number 280, loaded the days fastest/strongest ammo CCI select 1200 FPS, the FP plopped against my chest indicating to stop, not move the feet and lighthousing around to radar the ground leveld parts. Lengthened the FPspring a little bevore assembling and proceeding. So i revalue that wire dia as the very minimum or less, in the moment, in that Kadet.

(https://i.imgur.com/jbE66kO.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/Sn3106M.jpg?1)
S&B,CCI SV, Aguila
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 19, 2021, 02:52:31 AM
Past sunday the Kadet also gave me a troublefree experience with three packages of Sellier&Bellot (Standard LRN 40grs. 2.5g). It leaves the same amount of residue in the gun as the CCI SV. With one last shot of a mag the slide didn`t lock back. Which was pobably me, touching the slide with the left thumb with the two hand grip.
The new lens in my 2hand shooting glasses shows the sights clearly effortless now, what is a big relief for my dominant eye. Bought two used shooting glasses frames and found an optometrist not far away who is a sportshooter and skilled to measure it right. He uses a fully adjustable shooting glasses clip on frame to fine tune with different caliberd glases - at the same time i am aiming with the gun. Because of the different stance and head/eye position the glas would need repositioning in its orientation towards the sights, when changing the feet position. So hopefully i will have adjusted shooting glases for the one and two hand stance.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_glasses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_glasses)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 30, 2021, 08:09:37 AM
It went quite good today. Especially in the beginning i could bring 5 in a row into the center of the target 25 meter. The new glas in the shooting glases results in a very clear sight picture. Later on i had a light strike, also with cocking the hammer a second and third time (tooth-pic ::)).Checking the firing pin retaining plate i realised the firing pin had turned a quarter and was blocked in the hole of the retaining plate. Rearranged it worked fine again. Because it was more than one time that it has happened with that lighter firing spring i will have to go on searching for a better one.
 At home i removed it. Wire dia was 0,31 mm/ 0,012 inch. Length was 30 mm/ 1,2 inch. I found nothing with a little more wire diameter so i put in the shortened original FP spring with wire dia 0,48 mm/ 0,019 inch length cut down to 24 mm/ 0,94 inch. So i will give it a try next time. Maybe with the built in components it will work out as reliable. The heavier tactical sports hammer, the reduced power 17 lb wolff hammer spring and the optimised FP4. But also between the nearly reliable wire dia of 0,31 mm/ 0,012 inch up to the original wire dia of 0,48 mm/ 0,019 inch it should be possible to find some more springs for testing. Outer dia from aproximately 3,77 mm to 4,0 mm.

very light strike with blocked FP (tooth pic pointing at)
(https://i.imgur.com/CFfcRWA.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 30, 2021, 10:53:27 AM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49615233596_43c26df8df_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49614718783_dc7d974619_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49615489942_57d954734f_b.jpg)

I couldn't get an ID.

Hope it helps you find a spring.

Looks like a right wire diameter was already mentioned by painter some time ago..
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 30, 2021, 02:02:38 PM
Realizing there is a little noodeling between the kadet conversion kit and the frame - i got curious.
Upper to frame has a play of 0,5 mm / 0.23 inch. Not at the front sight, where the fitting is in the rails. Only at the rear end at the rear sight. The rear sight blade in itself is a little wobbly too. But here i mean the complete rear end, that can be moved up and down. Did some messuring with the feeler gauge 0,10 mm / 0.196 minimum and 0,6 mm / 0.236 max. Did a calculation using https://stores.kensight.com/front-sight-height-guide/ (https://stores.kensight.com/front-sight-height-guide/). On the 25 Meter / 27,34 yard target it can add up to a impact distance height variable of 7,8 cm / 3,075 inch. Nice exculpation for poor grouping too.  ::)
Also did measure with the caliper. So the conversion kit borehole is widened - where the upper is fixed within the frame by the slide stop. The bore holes in the frame and the slide stop dia match quite good. Same with the 9 mm slide stop.
Provisionaly i tested and glued in a piece of plastic to take out the play. I dont expect it to be a long term solution. Also the fitting is a little too tight, the slide stop is not moving freely enough axial to catch the slide on the last round, when it should be lifted up by the magazin follower.

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 30, 2021, 02:04:26 PM
minimum play
(https://i.imgur.com/wAIJyDl.jpg)

maximum play
(https://i.imgur.com/WpCoDHk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xghfo0w.jpg)

Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on May 30, 2021, 02:08:03 PM
provisorily plastic shim material
(https://i.imgur.com/s3zQpOf.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on June 01, 2021, 06:38:06 AM
Got a new lighter FP spring, wire die 0,40 mm/ 0.0157 inch, length 30 mm/ 1,2 inch. outer dia 4mm / 0.157 inch. Will test it next time on the range too. Did not get one with the exact wire dia of painters FP spring. But close.

.22 lr casing as scale
wire dia 0,31 mm/ 0,012 inch, length 30 mm/ 1,2 inch - FP reetaining plate loosened an FP turned a quarter
wire dia 0,48 mm/ 0,019 inch, original kadet FP spring
wire die 0,40 mm/ 0.0157 inch, length 30 mm/ 1,2 inch - next shoo-in
(https://i.imgur.com/lHoYDYR.jpg)
Title: Re: light strikes FTF- odyssey of a kadet
Post by: joerchi69 on June 06, 2021, 09:03:53 AM
Had have only 100 shots of CCI SV today. Tested the shim. And had no light strikes with the shortened original FP spring with wire dia 0,48 mm/ 0,019 inch length cut down to 24 mm/ 0,94 inch. With the same other configuration as the last months since October 09, 2020 :  the heavier tactical sports hammer, the reduced power 17 lb wolff hammer spring and the optimised FP4. And the slightly lighter trigger spring with wire dia of 0,8mm / 0,0315 inch. The trigger pull wight is estimated around 1,1 Kg / 2,5 lbs .

With the shim i recon a better accuracy then before. The sight picture reproduces more exactly on the paper target. But i have to make more shooting for a summary. With the plastic shim the slide stop sits very tight and so the slide is mostly not getting catched on the last round. With the plastic glued in just on one side in the borehole, i assume the upper pressed in a to high position - so the slide is maybe rubbing a little more in the rails. And i found fresh rubbing marks on the "underside of the rear sights". So a shimming wich is centering the slide release would be the better option.. Starting a apprenticeship at a gunsmith would be a nice option. Wish  ::)