The Original CZ Forum

CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols, the new wave => Topic started by: briang2ad on September 08, 2019, 04:22:37 PM

Title: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 08, 2019, 04:22:37 PM
Its JUST SO EASY to shoot the P07 well - it just flat out locks into the hand and provides SUCH an accurate pistol even at speed.

If it had the LONG PADDLE mag release like a P99 AS, it would be perfect.  Oh, that we could see more paddles...
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on September 08, 2019, 06:50:55 PM
If it had the LONG PADDLE mag release like a P99 AS, it would be perfect.  Oh, that we could see more paddles...
But then it would be like wulther and wulther is german for tooris.  You ain't gettin CZ to re-engineer their lines to paddle releases.Not going to happen. But hey give them a call and put in a request. Or just buy a wulther or even an HK which is short for Holy Krap this gun has a lousy trigger.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: radagast on September 08, 2019, 07:51:21 PM
Hi folks !
     After a 40 year hiatus I accompanied a friend to the range, rediscovered pistols, and started the quest for a reliable,defensive handgun. I handled about 20, rented 11, and definitely preferred hammer fired weapons. I liked the Sig P229, Beretta 92 compact, and the HK P30, but wanted to try a CZ before deciding. Travelled the 125 miles, and the wife and I rented a P07 and P09.  Case closed !
     I grouped better with the 09, but was more comfortable with the 07; and decided time and practice would close up those groups. The P07 Just felt absolutely perfect in either hand..... and yes, those groups have closed up !
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: Winkel on September 08, 2019, 08:47:12 PM
Hi folks !
     After a 40 year hiatus I accompanied a friend to the range, rediscovered pistols, and started the quest for a reliable,defensive handgun. I handled about 20, rented 11, and definitely preferred hammer fired weapons. I liked the Sig P229, Beretta 92 compact, and the HK P30, but wanted to try a CZ before deciding. Travelled the 125 miles, and the wife and I rented a P07 and P09.  Case closed !
     I grouped better with the 09, but was more comfortable with the 07; and decided time and practice would close up those groups. The P07 Just felt absolutely perfect in either hand..... and yes, those groups have closed up !
Good choice!  I LOVE my P-09 but the P-07 is a bit more convenient when you consider size.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 08, 2019, 09:45:16 PM
Yes, just got a P30 recently and it’s great, and love the paddles.  Superb weapon.  Makes me want a lighter DA on the HK and paddles on the CZ. 
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: Indy_Tim on September 09, 2019, 09:46:44 PM
Hi folks !
     After a 40 year hiatus I accompanied a friend to the range, rediscovered pistols, and started the quest for a reliable,defensive handgun. I handled about 20, rented 11, and definitely preferred hammer fired weapons. I liked the Sig P229, Beretta 92 compact, and the HK P30, but wanted to try a CZ before deciding. Travelled the 125 miles, and the wife and I rented a P07 and P09.  Case closed !
     I grouped better with the 09, but was more comfortable with the 07; and decided time and practice would close up those groups. The P07 Just felt absolutely perfect in either hand..... and yes, those groups have closed up !

Welcome back to shooting.  Every time I take new shooters out to try different style handguns, they always come away preferring the P07.  The bench will have Glocks, CZ 75s, 1911s and even the occasional Bersa but in the end, it’s the P07 that they preferred.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: MadDuner on September 09, 2019, 09:54:53 PM
Congrats on getting back into handgun shooting and on the choice of weapons!

I am just now getting completely comfortable with my new P-07.  I love how it shoots - but I don’t shoot it as well as I do my SP-01 Tac or my P-01.  I’m pretty sure it’s all a matter of comfort after putting rounds down range.  As the round count goes up - the group spread shrinks!

Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: Hammer Time on September 10, 2019, 12:48:37 AM
It's funny, I own some DA/SA pistols that are twice the price of the P-07, and certainly in some ways are more refined, but the reality is that there is just something about the P-07 that I love. And, I tend to shoot it better than those fancier guns as well.

I got lured by something else this past Spring, and traded my original P-07 in. I ended up missing it so much I recently had to pick up another one!
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: M1A4ME on September 10, 2019, 07:12:09 AM
The perfect pistol?

It would shoot like my P07 DUTY.  It would be as reliable as my P07.  It would be as easy to carry concealed as my P07.  It would feel like my P01 Omega in my hands.

I'm not stuck on the .40 or the 9, but it's got to shoot like the .40 S&W P07 DUTY and be as reliable as that and be as easy to carry as the P07.  I've just never gotten around to buying/keeping a P07 in 9MM.  Got carried away with the CZ75 Compacts, P01s, etc.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: Claymore504 on September 10, 2019, 08:11:44 AM
It's funny, I own some DA/SA pistols that are twice the price of the P-07, and certainly in some ways are more refined, but the reality is that there is just something about the P-07 that I love. And, I tend to shoot it better than those fancier guns as well.

I got lured by something else this past Spring, and traded my original P-07 in. I ended up missing it so much I recently had to pick up another one!

This is how I feel about my P-09 UG/SR. I have owned it for a while now and it is just awesome. I keep ptting it up against other guns expecting me to like it less, but I just dont. Recently took it to the range with my Beretta LTT Elite and 92A1 (with trigger work) and I was blown away how it was not shadowed by the Berettas. Don't get me wrong I LOVE the LTT Elite. I is a work of art. On paper it blows the P09 out of the water, but when shooting, for me, the P09 just does something for me.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: M1A4ME on September 10, 2019, 08:33:51 AM
One of the beautiful things about the P07/P09....how can something that cheap shoot those small groups.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: DOC 1500 on September 11, 2019, 08:33:49 AM
One of the beautiful things about the P07/P09....how can something that cheap shoot those small groups.
Ask Joe L., he's probably got more Bullseye time with the po7 and the po9 than any of us.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 11, 2019, 01:55:18 PM
It is weird, but the shorter grip makes the hold easier and steadier - just locks it in - even better than the P09.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: Hammer Time on September 12, 2019, 02:50:56 PM
How did we get this far in the "perfect pistol" thread without a single pic?  8)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/Ki9tM6.jpg)


[Mods re-sized photo]
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 12, 2019, 07:47:37 PM
Nice!  Thanks for a great P07 pic!
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: coolbox on September 13, 2019, 03:08:56 AM
The P series is surprisingly accurate.
My perfect pistol would be a P09 on a SP01 frame, converted SAO. If only they made a long slide version of the P09 !!
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 14, 2019, 08:59:49 PM
The perfect pistol MUST include a P99AS style paddle mag release.  If you never shot/manipulated a gun with them, you are missing out on what a mag release was meant to be. 
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on September 15, 2019, 06:33:06 AM
The perfect pistol MUST include a P99AS style paddle mag release.  If you never shot/manipulated a gun with them, you are missing out on what a mag release was meant to be.
I've shot guns with the paddle and I do not like it. Most recently an HK P30SK. I didn't like the gun or the release.  If you do that's your preference, If it was that great we'd have them on all our guns. I like the button just fine. To each his own.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: Hammer Time on September 15, 2019, 04:35:32 PM
I'll also add that my newer P-07 has a significantly better trigger than the last one I owned. Not sure if I just got lucky this time, or if CZ is improving their finishing of the internals, but it really is way better.

I still went ahead and added a reduced power TRS, #18 hammer spring and DA roller from CGW. And polished the trigger bar and de-tensioned the trigger bar return spring, and couldn't be happier with it now.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 15, 2019, 06:32:20 PM
Paddles in a SHORT grip can be a challenge - I like paddles but not in the PPS for example. 

In a regular sized guns long P99 style paddles are better in the following ways:

1. They offer a mag release with NO shift is grip at all to most users.
2. They are completely ambidextrous with no compromise (a la P10C)
3. More leverage for sticky mags.
4. No holes needed in the mag (see your P30). 
5. 1-3 make them generally faster for mag changes and getting back on target. 

The only downside and reason for buttons is convention.  They can lead one to 'do the wrong motion' when you switch back to the (dumb slower) buttons. 

It took me about 2-3 mag changes on the range to adapt and say 'wow this is MUCH better'.  I'd say they are objectively better for 1-3.  Not shifting your hand at all just makes them better - period.  If one has orangutan thumbs, OK you can be almost a fast, but still don't have the same leverage. 

The only reason for buttons is convention.  It 'got fielded first' - that's it. 

Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: 01svtL on September 16, 2019, 05:49:55 PM
It sounds like a lot of you, who want to mix aspects of various CZ guns, are describing a SP-01 Phantom with a little Cajun love, no?
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: MadDuner on September 17, 2019, 07:17:03 AM
We just can’t leave stuff alone.....
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 17, 2019, 06:11:26 PM
We're Murican.   :)

Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: M1A4ME on September 18, 2019, 07:10:13 AM
Sounds like work (where I worked for 30 years before retiring).

The (right) engineers spend a lot of time developing a new piece of equipment or process, test it out, go back and work out the bugs, test it out again, work out some more bugs and finally decide it's ready for installation/use.

It's bought/built/installed and put into service.  The darn thing works, just like they said it was (remember, that takes the right engineers, not just any or all or every engineer, the right engineers).

Then, after it's proven to work as advertised the process/production engineers along with maintenance decide they can "make it better."

That is followed by more money spent to change a well working piece of equipment/process-to make it better, of course.

At some point, things begin to fall apart, the process/equipment won't run, finger pointing, meetings, shouting matches ensue and after a few weeks/months of this management calls in the original (good) engineers who show up, look at the mess their design has become with great alarm and lots of questions.  Which results in more finger pointing, meetings and shouting matches.

The equipment is "restored" to it's original form/function and runs like a top once again.  Just as advertised.

Then, of course, the same cast of characters begins to "improve" on it and the cycle repeats.

I got to watch that from a distance many times over the years.  Fortunately, for me, no one saw the value of my area and no one wanted to spend money to make it better and I was seldom bothered by any outside engineers, good or bad.  The "good" ones would come from overseas, look things over, marvel at the way things ran, the quantity and quality of what we made and even ask if we could make product for overseas plants (which we could not due to the before mentioned lack of money spend to improve/expand our area/equipment over the years.)

It's fun, from a distance.  When you're in the middle of it, it's a PITA.  Big time.

I wonder if the CZ design engineers read internet forums and what they think about complaints (when their pistols work just like they were designed) or suggestions for improvement.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 18, 2019, 10:53:48 AM
All good points.

First - as mag releases go, SOME buttons are better than others.  The P07 because of its skinny grip allows a decent shot at the mag release.  The PPQ M2 also offers a fairly decent purchase.  They don't compare to the PPQ paddle, but not bad.

The P series has been in production for 10 years.  Might be a chance to make changes based on equipment recap depending on life cycle - but maybe not worth it based on CB analysis. 
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: Hammer Time on September 18, 2019, 05:34:26 PM


In a regular sized guns long P99 style paddles are better in the following ways:

1. They offer a mag release with NO shift is grip at all to most users.
2. They are completely ambidextrous with no compromise (a la P10C)
3. More leverage for sticky mags.
4. No holes needed in the mag (see your P30). 
5. 1-3 make them generally faster for mag changes and getting back on target. 


I could see how those things could be advantageous for some who either have hand size challenges, or have purchased a gun that fits their hands poorly. But I've never found a need for a paddle release, primarily because;

1) I don't buy, and I certainly don't carry, guns that require me to shift my hand to release the mag.
2) Ambidexterity of the mag release isn't a concern of mine.
3) Just like poor-fitting guns, I don't carry mags that don't release cleanly.
4) Can't see how mag catch holes are an issue.
5) 1-3 are factors I completely avoid through choice, so I doubt my mag changes aren't any slower as a result.

Not saying that mag paddles might not be helpful for some people, but I wouldn't say they are superior in general.
Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: coolbox on September 19, 2019, 03:20:12 AM
Sounds like work (where I worked for 30 years before retiring).

The (right) engineers spend a lot of time developing a new piece of equipment or process, test it out, go back and work out the bugs, test it out again, work out some more bugs and finally decide it's ready for installation/use.

It's bought/built/installed and put into service.  The darn thing works, just like they said it was (remember, that takes the right engineers, not just any or all or every engineer, the right engineers).

Then, after it's proven to work as advertised the process/production engineers along with maintenance decide they can "make it better."

That is followed by more money spent to change a well working piece of equipment/process-to make it better, of course.

At some point, things begin to fall apart, the process/equipment won't run, finger pointing, meetings, shouting matches ensue and after a few weeks/months of this management calls in the original (good) engineers who show up, look at the mess their design has become with great alarm and lots of questions.  Which results in more finger pointing, meetings and shouting matches.

The equipment is "restored" to it's original form/function and runs like a top once again.  Just as advertised.

Then, of course, the same cast of characters begins to "improve" on it and the cycle repeats.

I got to watch that from a distance many times over the years.  Fortunately, for me, no one saw the value of my area and no one wanted to spend money to make it better and I was seldom bothered by any outside engineers, good or bad.  The "good" ones would come from overseas, look things over, marvel at the way things ran, the quantity and quality of what we made and even ask if we could make product for overseas plants (which we could not due to the before mentioned lack of money spend to improve/expand our area/equipment over the years.)

It's fun, from a distance.  When you're in the middle of it, it's a PITA.  Big time.

I wonder if the CZ design engineers read internet forums and what they think about complaints (when their pistols work just like they were designed) or suggestions for improvement.

A very true projection of what happens, at most engineering/operations related setups at least. It does take the right engineers, and when they are motivated, they do bring about minor improvements and fine tuning. Which we have been observing in pistols, bolt actions, revolvers etc etc over the entire last century!


Title: Re: The perfect pistol
Post by: briang2ad on September 19, 2019, 01:54:53 PM
Quote
1) I don't buy, and I certainly don't carry, guns that require me to shift my hand to release the mag.
2) Ambidexterity of the mag release isn't a concern of mine.
3) Just like poor-fitting guns, I don't carry mags that don't release cleanly.
4) Can't see how mag catch holes are an issue.
5) 1-3 are factors I completely avoid through choice, so I doubt my mag changes aren't any slower as a result. 

If you have LONG thumbs and are pre-arthritic - great.  I have large hands, but have to shift my hand slightly for all buttons. MOST people do.  Paddles are better for most.   Mag releases don't normally get stuck - dirt/sand have a vote.  Ambi could become important, and more leverage is good.