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GENERAL => Ammo Questions and Handloading Techniques => Topic started by: Grendel on September 08, 2019, 10:19:38 PM

Title: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 08, 2019, 10:19:38 PM
What bullets/powders do you like?

Any good recipes?
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: skin on September 08, 2019, 11:34:24 PM
 I load for a ruger super black hawk and a Desert Eagle.  Both love this load.
Winchester or Starline case. Win lp primer. Any 240 gr jacketed bullet. 22.8 gr H110. Never tried this in a rifle.
It gives good velocity and really good accuracy. Good shooting.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 09, 2019, 12:04:04 AM
Thanks. Ever try cast bullets? (This is also for a Super Blackhawk I have on order)
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: larryflew on September 09, 2019, 01:00:26 AM
Sorry, not giving my recipes but making a simple point.  Don't load in 44 special brass if you don't have to. Load 44 special loads in 44 mag brass. Less revolver clean-up but still lower power. Help your light revolvers stop beating up on your hand and wrist.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on September 09, 2019, 06:43:22 AM
Thanks. Ever try cast bullets? (This is also for a Super Blackhawk I have on order)
I cast my own in the Lyman 429421 mold. This is the old Elmer Keith swc design. I'm using 6.0 grains of Unique and in My S&W 29  6.5 inch gun it is extremely accurate and in that heavy gun the recoil is nill.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 09, 2019, 09:31:43 AM
Sorry, not giving my recipes but making a simple point.  Don't load in 44 special brass if you don't have to. Load 44 special loads in 44 mag brass. Less revolver clean-up but still lower power. Help you light revolvers stop beating up on your hand and wrist.

Which begs the question: why bother to post in the thread and answer a question that wasn't asked?
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Gator89 on September 09, 2019, 10:14:04 AM
44 special

Bayou Bullets coated 215 gr SWC & Trail boss powder for a pleasant range session.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 09, 2019, 10:26:37 AM
44 special

Bayou Bullets coated 215 gr SWC & Trail boss powder for a pleasant range session.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: lewmed on September 09, 2019, 11:59:32 AM
 I've been loading my 44 spl. and 44 mag. with Bayou coated 240 gr bullets over a mild charge of Univ. it's much cleaner than Unique and meters better. I keep most of my loads mid range from 850 fps to 1025 fps for my vintage S&W revolvers. Most of my revolvers like .429"/ .430" bullets but one of them shoots best with .431"  I buy the larger bullets and size them down with a Lee sizer die when needed.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 09, 2019, 01:39:00 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Wobbly on September 09, 2019, 02:27:11 PM
Win lp primer. Any 240gr jacketed bullet. 22.8gr H110.

I believe a magnum primer is recommended with H110.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: larryflew on September 09, 2019, 05:32:56 PM
Sorry, not giving my recipes but making a simple point.  Don't load in 44 special brass if you don't have to. Load 44 special loads in 44 mag brass. Less revolver clean-up but still lower power. Help you light revolvers stop beating up on your hand and wrist.

Which begs the question: why bother to post in the thread and answer a question that wasn't asked?

In case you where not aware of the extra cleaning required to go back to magnums after using specials in your revolver but I guess people don't want that info so feel free to do the cleaning and ill quit posting what isn't asked for rather than trying to provide info.  BTW same applies to 357 after using 38 in case ANYONE might want that info.  Movin' on........

BTW was planning on posting my recipes once I got back home.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Earl Keese on September 09, 2019, 06:00:48 PM
Grendel- why is it nearly every time you post a question on this forum you reply to at least one poster with snark? As a moderator it would be nice if you held yourself to the same standard of decorum that is expected of others. larryflew actually offered you some helpful advice. That's what people do here. Further, posting of recipes here(especially w/o OAL) has generally been dissuaded.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on September 09, 2019, 06:10:51 PM
In case you where not aware of the extra cleaning required to go back to magnums after using specials in your revolver but I guess people don't want that info so feel free to do the cleaning and ill quit posting what isn't asked for rather than trying to provide info.  BTW same applies to 357 after using 38 in case ANYONE might want that info.  Movin' on........

I never knew that.   So thanks.   Recently got my first revolver that isn’t black powder.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Earl Keese on September 09, 2019, 06:23:33 PM
Sorry, not giving my recipes but making a simple point.  Don't load in 44 special brass if you don't have to. Load 44 special loads in 44 mag brass. Less revolver clean-up but still lower power. Help your light revolvers stop beating up on your hand and wrist.
Posts like this are why I've learned so much about reloading from this forum. Makes this forum better than other reloading forums, hands down.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: M1A4ME on September 09, 2019, 08:36:29 PM
I used to load/shoot .44's a lot.  Ruger Super Blackhawk 7.5" and a S&W M29 4".

I used mostly .44 magnum brass and some .44 Special brass.  I used Unique for all the lead bullet loads.  It's been working fine for many years more than the 42 years I've loaded it.

Never noticed any issues when shooting .44 Special then shooting .44 magnum brass.  Same for using .38 Special first/middle/last in my S&W 586 or Ruger Speed Six.  Non-issue for me.  I mean, I read about it, but it never happened.  Sort of like all the "1911's are unreliable" threads.  I read them, smile and go on doing what I've been doing.

Now, for the real magnum loads is was mostly 240 grain jacketed hollow points and 2400 powder.  I used some WW296 but mostly it was 2400.  Might have been some H110, too, but people say it's the same as WW296 (but the H110 didn't split cases like the WW296 did - this was later in my Dan Wesson .44 magnum.)

I tried some 180 grain bullets but never got the accuracy of the 240 grain bullets (jacketed or cast).

I used the soft lead bullets (like those greasy Speer and Hornady bullets) with Unique and light loads with no leading issues.  I only used 2400 with the hard cast 240 grain loads which were travelling quite a bit faster than the Unique/soft lead loads.

.44's are fun.  They are good for breaking up rocks, shooting through small trees and appliances, car doors, etc.

One day I was shooting an old water heater tank.  The 230 grain .45 acp loads would dimple the front and I'd find some of them in the dirt in front/under the tank (lying on it's side).  The .357 magnum loads would punch through the front and dimple the back side.  The .44 magnum loads would punch through both sides and go on down range to the dirt bank.  Don't think you can hid behind a chunk of moderately thick iron and be safe from a .44 magnum.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 09, 2019, 08:37:29 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 11, 2019, 03:54:21 AM
So far, the loads I've got from Hogdon (both 44sp & 44Mag) for HP38, CFE pistol, and Trailboss have specified large pistol primers, no mention of magnum primers. However, they all seem to refer to 8" or greater barrel lengths. Would I be right in thinking this has reference to the velocity achieved with the particular load detailed and just means the muzzle velocity will be different using a shorter barrel?
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Tenbones on September 11, 2019, 10:13:44 AM
Yep!  MV will vary some depending on barrel length and the type of primer, ie., large vs. magnum, with the magnum primer causing a slight to moderate increase in MV over the large primer.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on September 11, 2019, 10:24:39 AM
Yes, the longer barrel will give greater velocity.
Title: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Ruber on September 11, 2019, 10:58:43 AM
I used to load 44 mag for silhouette in Blackhawks but recently started to carry a SW 69 (an l-frame 44 magnum thats a bit smaller and lighter than a GP100).  Handloader magazine has a whole issue dedicated to S&W 44’s, but many loads work very well in the Blackhawks too.  Lots of cast and jacketed options.  If you get the chance, pick up a copy through Wolfe Publishing: December 2014 issue, #293.

Out of those, my favorite are max loads of H110 & 240 XTP’s ( Nice in the 69 and also cycle my Ruger Carbine); 250/254 Keith with Power Pistol (great reduced load that is very accurate and still packs a punch from a short barrel);  300 cast performance wfngc over a max charge of H110 and heavy crimp (awesome load in the longer barrels, great out of my Blackhawks, but still decent out of the 69).

I still like using Unique in specials, but Power Pistol is slowly becoming a favorite.

But I do highly recommend getting a backcopy of that issue and reading it cover to cover a couple times.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 11, 2019, 11:25:32 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Wobbly on September 11, 2019, 08:44:49 PM
So far, the loads I've got from Hogdon (both 44sp & 44Mag) for HP38, CFE pistol, and Trailboss have specified large pistol primers, no mention of magnum primers.

Magnum Primers are NOT for loads just because "magnum" is in the name of the gun. They are for powders that need extra help with ignition. H110 (aka Win 296) is one that's famous for always needing Magnum Primers. So you could conceivably have a 38Spcl load that used H110, and it would require a Magnum Primer.

Your Lyman load manual should tell you which powders do better with them.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: skin on September 11, 2019, 09:17:09 PM
 Winchester lp primers are for Std and mag loading. Winchester to my knowledge only makes one lp primer. Hope this helps some.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 11, 2019, 09:39:38 PM
So far, the loads I've got from Hogdon (both 44sp & 44Mag) for HP38, CFE pistol, and Trailboss have specified large pistol primers, no mention of magnum primers.

Magnum Primers are NOT for loads just because "magnum" is in the name of the gun. They are for powders that need extra help with ignition. H110 (aka Win 296) is one that's famous for always needing Magnum Primers. So you could conceivably have a 38Spcl load that used H110, and it would require a Magnum Primer.

Your Lyman load manual should tell you which powders do better with them.

Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 11, 2019, 09:39:59 PM
Winchester lp primers are for Std and mag loading. Winchester to my knowledge only makes one lp primer. Hope this helps some.

Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 11, 2019, 09:52:15 PM
Grendel- why is it nearly every time you post a question on this forum you reply to at least one poster with snark? As a moderator it would be nice if you held yourself to the same standard of decorum that is expected of others. larryflew actually offered you some helpful advice. That's what people do here. Further, posting of recipes here(especially w/o OAL) has generally been dissuaded.

Well, I'll tell you why in this case. It was because of this:

Quote
Sorry, not giving my recipes
...and then a bit about this and that concerning magnum brass.

It rubbed me the wrong way, since my post was a specific request about suitable loads, (and Larry was making a point about not sharing his) and not a general question about whether to use this brass or that brass. While valuable information, it was not germane to my question and probably would have been better in a thread of it's own if it's that crucial.

Anyway, I was probably a bit 'quick on the trigger there', and for that, I apologize to Larry.

My point though, is still valid.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: larryflew on September 11, 2019, 11:55:11 PM
Kind of like the other info like Win primers that no one asked a question about.  As I said I wasn't home and would have added my 4 recipes when I got back.

If your point is still valid it apparently isn't an apology.  I'll make it a point to stay out of your posts.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 12, 2019, 06:13:47 AM
Kind of like the other info like Win primers that no one asked a question about.  As I said I wasn't home and would have added my 4 recipes when I got back.

If your point is still valid it apparently isn't an apology.  I'll make it a point to stay out of your posts.

Okay.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: skin on September 13, 2019, 12:20:16 AM
Win lp primer. Any 240gr jacketed bullet. 22.8gr H110. 


I believe a magnum primer is recommended with H110.


Just clarifying  :)
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 13, 2019, 07:23:50 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: 9mmsubgun-m11 on September 13, 2019, 08:52:50 PM
240gr Keith style powder coated bullets from Missouri Bullet Company over 5.5gr Winchester 231 in magnum case running about 830 fps. Using this load in all my vintage Smith's. Some loading manuals call this a special load and others call it a magnum load. Easy on me and the guns.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 13, 2019, 09:14:29 PM
Thanks
Title: Magnum primers and such
Post by: Grendel on September 16, 2019, 05:33:27 PM
If I'm loading for 44special using Trail Boss or CFE, and just have large pistol/magnum primers, does it matter?

It will still go bang right?
Title: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Ruber on September 16, 2019, 07:51:30 PM
If I'm loading for 44special using Trail Boss or CFE, and just have large pistol/magnum primers, does it matter?

It will still go bang right?
Short answer:  Yes.  At room temp with a firm crimp, properly sized bullets, and quality components... there should be only a minimal difference in performance.

That said, changing primers could amplify any inconsistencies in those.

For example, I had a blackhawk with super tight throats and a redhawk with super loose throats.  Using smaller sized bullets, I always needed a mag primer to get complete combustion with light/special loads in the Redhawk.

But as always, when swapping out components, be sure of your reason for doing so, and start low and work up.

Also, I used to always use either standard primers or mag primers to penny pinch the costs.  Now my time is worth more and I stick to WLP’s to simplify my process (they run in between CCI 300’s and 350’s in my guns)..

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 16, 2019, 08:09:10 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: JD Miller on September 16, 2019, 08:13:43 PM
I load 44 mag. I use the 250 gr Keith cast bullets from Magnus and Silver State Bullets . Aliant 2400 for heavy High Vel loads, Unique for light loads. Also used blue dot and herco for lighter loads
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 16, 2019, 09:10:53 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Wobbly on September 17, 2019, 05:51:45 AM
Short answer:  Yes.  At room temp with a firm crimp, properly sized bullets, and quality components... there should be only a minimal difference in performance.

That said, changing primers could amplify any inconsistencies in those.

For example, I had a Blackhawk with super tight throats and a Redhawk with super loose throats.  Using smaller sized bullets, I always needed a mag primer to get complete combustion with light/special loads in the Redhawk.

But as always, when swapping out components, be sure of your reason for doing so, and start low and work up.


There's the answer. When you upgrade components from a published load, then you need to drop back and work up again. If (say) you are using one powder and pretty much understand how it behaves over several loads and many, many rounds, and you want to upgrade to Magnum Primers, then you don't need to go all the way back to the Starting Load. But you should step back.

The whole idea of an upgrade is to expect a change. You would and should expect an increase. But how will it show up: Increased efficiency ? Increased velocity ? Increased pressure ?

Questionable areas like this is where a chrono really comes in handy. Was the increase 10fps (negligible) or 100fps (dangerous) ??


Grendel -
I'm really happy to see you growing in reloading, and asking questions.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 17, 2019, 06:00:13 AM
Thanks. So what I'm getting from this is: There may be a small difference, but all other things being equal, it should be safe enough.

As I'm using 44 magnum cases, but using 44 special load data, I'm correct in using the 44 magnum OAL measurements - about 1.595 to 1.61?
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 17, 2019, 06:39:18 AM
Thanks again for all the help here
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: M1A4ME on September 17, 2019, 07:18:40 AM
One time (for 100 rounds) I loaded some lead balls meant for muzzle loaders.

I think they were Hornady (the red/white box sticks out in my memory.

I saw the load data in some gun magazine and since the lead balls were lighter and soft lead they were cheaper than bullets.  I thought it would be cool to make the Super Blackhawk shoot round balls like the old black powder revolvers.

Nah.  Accuracy just wasn't there as compared to regular bullets.  But it was a pretty light/easy to shoot load.

I never adjusted overall length just because of heavy or light powder loads.  I just seated to the canelure and crimped.

That big Ruger, with the right loads, is capable of some seriously nice groups.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 17, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 17, 2019, 11:22:24 AM
How about these first 4? All loaded using 44 special data: 4.0gr Trailboss, Win 44 magnum cases, large pistol/magnum primers, 240gr Lightning cast bullets.

The two on the right are slightly shorter in OAL 1.950, 1.597 & the two on the left are 1.612. The book says 1.610 minimum length for Magnum cartridges.

(https://i.imgur.com/AynNkAi.jpg)
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: M1A4ME on September 17, 2019, 12:57:32 PM
In light loads I wouldn't think you'd have an issue with bullets moving forward in the unfired rounds in the cylinder.  With heavy loads it can happen.

You won't have feed issues from cartridges too short or two long.  You won't have chambering issues from cartridges too long (at least not due to the bullet contacting the lands/end of the leade like we something do in out CZ pistols and that Beretta my youngest son has).

I actually "like" the bullet 3rd from the left.  It is closest to the case mouth actually crimping in right at the top of the crimp groove.  You don't have a heavy crimp on these (probably don't need it with a light .44 special load in a longer .44 magnum case).

I don't think you'll have pressure issues from seating one as deep as #3 vs. 1 and 2, not with a .44 special powder charge in the longer case.

If I were loading those bullets, for .44 magnum loads, I'd have that 3rd bullet just a bit deeper so that case mouth crimped in just below the top of that crimp groove. 

I'm kind of curious why the crimp "groove" in those bullets is long and tapered like that. 

All I ever used, years ago, was the standard Pacific and RCBS .44 magnum dies that did a roll crimp.  Never heard of taper crimp or factory crimp in those days.
Title: Re: Anyone load for 44 Mag and 44 special?
Post by: Grendel on September 17, 2019, 01:19:41 PM
Thanks again