The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols, the new wave => Topic started by: anach on February 28, 2020, 02:38:37 AM
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I bought a P10F suppressor ready because it was on sale and in stock. I decided it was finally time to cover up the bare threads so I started shopping for gun
bling accessories.
I wasn't convinced I was going to like a comp'd gun, or if it would be reliable with the ammo I shoot, so I initially looked at cheap-o micro comps on ebay. For around $35, you can get a teeny-tiny KKM ripoff single port glock comp (shaped like a brick). The small size was tempting as was the price. Google-fu also turned up two P10 specific compensators: the Primary Machine Micro Stealth Comp and the Parker Mountain Machine P10C Compensator.
Both comps are effectively the same price: the PM micro stealth was $90 and PMM P10C $100, both before shipping and tax. Both are specially shaped for the P10 slide chamfers and both are single port designs. The only "real" difference as far as I was concerned was the mounting system: PM uses setscrews while PMM uses timing shims. Both require threadlocker or else the comp will work loose. The PMM has a guide rod cover and "ears" that are designed to keep the comp from spinning off if/when it works loose.
After weighing the cost and appearance, I decided to spluge and go with the PMM compensator. I think the ears and timing shim mounting system, as well as the overall appearance pushed me over the edge. I feel like the PMM comp looks more like a finished package from the factory and less "gamer" or "race" than the usual comp'd gun.
PMM took 5 days to ship the package (they warn you about delays in handling due to volume) but USPS got it to my home in 3 days once they got it out the door. They ship in a small flat-rate box with a bit of packaging to keep the goodies from bouncing around inside the box.
I don't have much range time with it, but these are my first impressions. I have no affiliation with PMM, PM, or sketchsville ebay sellers and paid for the product with my own money.
First Impressions
Upon opening the package, I was pretty happy with what I saw.
(https://i.imgur.com/5tLmeiv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0Q0gH8A.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G7RIqwi.jpg)
Nice machining, generous radius and chamfers on edges and corners, except for the "ears". The "ears" are almost blade sharp so you really do not want to catch your finger between the front of the slide and the back of the comp when the slide returns to battery. Some pictures for scale...
(https://i.imgur.com/uj6R9Vm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/t8pv4MK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7M0NIzL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aRTIRB8.jpg)
The comp serrations match the slide serrations, but let's be honest, those are purely cosmetic. You can't rack the slide with the barrel and they really only give an assailant a better grip on your gun. That said, they look perfect and contribute to the overall cohesive look and feel.
(https://i.imgur.com/n4unMHr.jpg)
The threads are clean, but the lead could probably serve to be higbee'd to eliminate cross threading into the aluminium. It hasn't been a problem yet, but it would be nice to see on all muzzle devices.
The anodization is supposed to be hard anodization which I can't say I've ever explicitly felt, so I wasn't sure what to expect. The matte texture feels more like rattle-can than traditional color anodize, but from what I've read, that's normal for hard anodization. The weak point in the finish is at the edges of the ears where the anodization on the knife edge is already starting to flake off. Everywhere else, the anodization looks even and solid. I do wish the finish matched gloss of the nitride of the slide, but I think the hard anodization will wear better at the end of the day and i can live with it.
(https://i.imgur.com/G16Nxz4.jpg)
The blind bore for the guide rod is oversized, probably to allow for timing misalignment, but they could probably have made it tapered to better align the comp on the guide rod if it breaks loose during firing.
The PMM logo is laser etched into the anodization on the front of the guide rod block. It's a little gritty, but what can you do, eh?
All in all, everything is solid and with no moving parts, not a lot can go wrong here.
PMM include 3 each of 9.9, 2.0, and 5.5 thou shims and a teeny-tiny vial of rockset.
Installation
So, despite the internet complaints about having to shim-time a muzzle device, it really wasn't that hard. Out of the box, the comp was timed almost perfectly, but was 1 revolution too close to the chamber for the breech block to return to battery. Some quick math showed I needed at least 36 thou (0.036") worth of shims to get the comp to back out one rev. Using 3x 9.9 and 3x 2.0 shims I got to about 10 degrees off 12'oclock in the right direction. The installation instructions say to shim to 15 degrees then crank to 12'oclock, but I figured the threadlocker was doing all the work so there was no need to go ham. 10 degrees to 12'oclock took about all my hand strength without resorting to a vise or wrench and then lined up perfectly.
(https://i.imgur.com/kOCzJiL.jpg)
While the shim stack is kind of excessive, I would much rather they cut the thread seat too deep like they have, rather than too shallow. This way, the comp can be placed as close to the front of the slide rather than leaving an unsightly gap if your barrel threads end further from the front of the slide.
(https://i.imgur.com/CYwWqq4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/t8r8iuz.jpg)
I cleaned the threads up with IPA, applied an insufficient amount of blue loctite (242), and spun the comp on. I plan on cutting a 37 thou brass shim for the permanent installation in a week or two, so I didn't want to have to fight too hard to get the comp off just yet. I don't know what people are on about, but timing with shims really isn't voodoo. Set screws seem like a poorer alternative in every way, but that's just me.
(https://i.imgur.com/PyCSFX5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E62eHQD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mQVH5nJ.jpg)
On a side note, Primary Machine doesn't seem to be impressed by timing shims, but I can't say I agree. If red loctite is enough to hold on a PM comp without setscrews, why wouldn't the same hold true for the PMM comp? I imagine he has a wealth of experience that I could never hope to match, but I have to call BS when I see it; I understand he has a product to sell, I just wish he didn't have to resort to ragging on a competitor's product over a non-issue.
Bump on this I'm very interested in this comp, they make some models with multi ports but the p10 comp only has 1, I think that's one of the reasons the primary machine one is so effective because it has 4 holes cut in it, however I hate set screws on my comp and would vastly prefer the pmm type of mounting style. Any other opinions out there?
Do a little digging on their mounting. It's not all it's cracked up to be and a lot of people are having issues with it. You can use the Primary Machine comp without set screws and it will never come loose if it's that much of an issue. Make sure barrel threads are degreased and use all the red loctitie included with it and it will never come off until you want it to.
To be entirely fair, the PMM comp ships with rockset, and Raining_Brass doesn't seem to hold rockset in very high esteem. I did find a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-nVK1s3AxE) of someone who had a glock comp break loose during firing but the guide rod retention did its job and the comp didn't fall off. It could just be the rockset isn't up to the job.
At the Range
I took my shiny new comp to the range and put 100 rounds of Winchester W Train, 147 gr @ 950 fps (140 PF) through it. I was slightly worried that the gun wouldn't run reliably with the larger, slower bullets: a lot of the roland special guys warn about using anything less than hot +p. I was all ready to have to go home and rip the comp off in frustration.
Much to my surprise, the gun ran like a top. No issues whatsoever in 100 rounds. 100 rounds isn't very many, but seeing as the gun only has 350 rounds through it, I would expect the gun to freak out more during the break in period. I checked the comp after firing, and the loctite seems to be holding strong. I probably won't get around to making the new shim before my next range trip, so I hope I can put at least another 200 through it with the blue loctite and see if it breaks free.
(https://i.imgur.com/vQt6C3o.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h8iEyV0.jpg)
It might be placebo, and I don't really have a way to A/B test, but I think I could feel a difference. You can definitely see the hot gases shoot up out of the port (the W train powder runs pretty clean in the barrel and internals, but has lots of very gritty smoke) and all that gas has to be doing something. I'm no speed shooter, but I would describe the overall effect as a gentler total experience. The closest thing I've shot to a race gun was a RDS Canik TP9SFx, and the P10F with the comp blew it out of the water. (to be fair, the stock P10F blew the Canik out of the water when I tried them together before the comp).
For anyone who cares, here are the dimensions:
Comp length (w/o ears) = 1.119"
Comp length (w/ ears) = 1.233"
Comp width = 1.025"
Thread bore = 0.586"
Thread seat depth = 0.301"
Thread = 1/2-28
Comp barrel exit bore = 0.378"
Comp weight = 29.19 grams
0.036" shim stack weight = 0.27 grams
Overall length (comp to back of slide) = 8 5/8"
(I apologize for mixed units and presentation.. but it doesn't bother me enough to convert them :P)
On a side note, with the comp and the rentention block on the second rail slot, the gun barely fits in the Blackhawk Omnivore.
(https://i.imgur.com/awCGIQh.jpg)
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Nice review! I had a m&p ported performance center I loved but the design got incredibly dirty after a few rounds and would black out the front sight.
Too bad I cant have a threaded barrel here. P10f comped would be interesting.
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thanks for the write up! I am considering one of these for my p-07. I just dont know if it is worth it for me.
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thanks for the write up! I am considering one of these for my p-07. I just dont know if it is worth it for me.
Unless you are actually using it for race gun purposes, I don't think any comp will ever be "worth it" in the sense that it will change your entire outlook on life or make you the next Jerry Miculek. At $100, it's gun bling you could instead spend on ammo and range time (or flowers and chocolate for your wife) and probably be just as happy. That said, it's pretty cool gun bling.
Nice review! I had a m&p ported performance center I loved but the design got incredibly dirty after a few rounds and would black out the front sight.
I hadn't thought about that, but having the ports behind the front sight does seem rather stupid. And you loose out on mechanical leverage.
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thanks for the write up! I am considering one of these for my p-07. I just dont know if it is worth it for me.
Unless you are actually using it for race gun purposes, I don't think any comp will ever be "worth it" in the sense that it will change your entire outlook on life or make you the next Jerry Miculek. At $100, it's gun bling you could instead spend on ammo and range time (or flowers and chocolate for your wife) and probably be just as happy. That said, it's pretty cool gun bling.
Nice review! I had a m&p ported performance center I loved but the design got incredibly dirty after a few rounds and would black out the front sight.
I hadn't thought about that, but having the ports behind the front sight does seem rather stupid. And you loose out on mechanical leverage.
While I agree with you, I kinda just want the gun bling. I will make up for the flowers somewhere else. Now. How do I save for the primary machine barrel/rmr/milling (for said rmr)
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Nice write up. I have a PMM on my G45 and can definitely tell the difference shooting it next to an uncomped G19. I was toying with the idea of adding one to my P10c, glad to see it’s an equally good fit and function in the P10 line.
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Just an update:
I made a few 36 thou brass shims but haven't had a chance to try them out yet.
(https://i.imgur.com/VmDRgkr.jpg)
I went to the range yesterday and put another 200 rounds through the comp. The weather was a little warmer (a little) and the vertical cloud of smoke was less defined than the last time. The comp is still nice and tight, contrary to what I was expecting (and what the internet told me). I'll run the blue loctite and steel shim stack until it fails and report back round count when it does.
With the correct amount of red loctite, I would imagine this comp would be rock solid for pretty much forever.
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Those look awesome. I just ordered one for my p07
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Those look awesome. I just ordered one for my p07
I think you'll really like it. I would recommend doing what I did and using less torque, really just enough to go from 11'oclock to 12 or whatever you can do by hand. Use red loctite, and plenty of it, to do the actual fixing in place.
If you end up using the rockset, use the entire vial and I'd love to hear how well it works. Removal seems a heck of a lot easier than the red loctite.
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Those look awesome. I just ordered one for my p07
I think you'll really like it. I would recommend doing what I did and using less torque, really just enough to go from 11'oclock to 12 or whatever you can do by hand. Use red loctite, and plenty of it, to do the actual fixing in place.
If you end up using the rockset, use the entire vial and I'd love to hear how well it works. Removal seems a heck of a lot easier than the red loctite.
I will probably be going the rockset way, just because I may end up ordering a primary machine barrel in the somewhat near future and don't want the swap out to be awful.
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I had tried rocksett several times and while I understand in theory why it makes so much sense for installing muzzle devices in my experience it doesn't hold. Great write up thank you for the info
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I’ve had one on mine for 3-4 months now, and I love it. I actually enjoy the gun more than the SP-01 I had now. I put the comped upper on a F lower, and that’s how I use it in the gun games. Zero noticeable blast. No malfunctions. Definitely shoots flatter with it.
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I’ve had one on mine for 3-4 months now, and I love it. I actually enjoy the gun more than the SP-01 I had now. I put the comped upper on a F lower, and that’s how I use it in the gun games. Zero noticeable blast. No malfunctions. Definitely shoots flatter with it.
I would love to see a pic of it on the f lower.
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I’ve had one on mine for 3-4 months now, and I love it. I actually enjoy the gun more than the SP-01 I had now. I put the comped upper on a F lower, and that’s how I use it in the gun games. Zero noticeable blast. No malfunctions. Definitely shoots flatter with it.
I would love to see a pic of it on the f lower.
I’ll see if I can figure out how.
What I’d really like to have is a comped S upper on a C lower for concealed carry, but I think there’s something different about the S that doesnt allow it to function on a C frame.
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I’ve had one on mine for 3-4 months now, and I love it. I actually enjoy the gun more than the SP-01 I had now. I put the comped upper on a F lower, and that’s how I use it in the gun games. Zero noticeable blast. No malfunctions. Definitely shoots flatter with it.
I would love to see a pic of it on the f lower.
Just go to Parker's website. The only pictures they have of it on a gun is a C slide on an F frame.
https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/store/p387/PMM_CZ_P10C_Compensator_.html
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Just go to Parker's website. The only pictures they have of it on a gun is a C slide on an F frame.
https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/store/p387/PMM_CZ_P10C_Compensator_.html
Thanks for that!
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annnnnd boom. thanks for the encouragement to get one
(https://i.ibb.co/km6YZh4/IMG-3521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qJFb6RN)
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annnnnd boom. thanks for the encouragement to get one
(https://i.ibb.co/km6YZh4/IMG-3521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qJFb6RN)
Man, that looks sweet. PMM really did a good job with their captured guide rod design, it looks like it's supposed to be there.
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Good information. I'm looking to add one to my suppressor ready P09. I used to shoot USPSA/IPSC, but have retired from that sport for over 15 years. I picked up the P09 as a range gun for plinking and possibly some low-key competitions/fun shoots.
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I've been interested in one of these but every chance they get pmm seem to be bleeping bleepers to their customers. Their website says shipping delays if that bothers you don't order. Their fb message page says we don't respond to fb messages bleep off. Their website has no way to contact them.
Not terribly reassuring, I think I'll just hope/wait for killer innovations to make an 09/07 comp and will buy their p10s comp/barrel when it's available
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I have not researched PMM from a customer approval angle. Interesting to hear they may have some customer service issues. I need to reach out to them and see if I get a response. Thanks
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I've been interested in one of these but every chance they get pmm seem to be bleeping bleepers to their customers. Their website says shipping delays if that bothers you don't order. Their fb message page says we don't respond to fb messages bleep off. Their website has no way to contact them.
Not terribly reassuring, I think I'll just hope/wait for killer innovations to make an 09/07 comp and will buy their p10s comp/barrel when it's available
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Yankchef, could you actually post some links to people with problems with PMM? You are the only one I've ever seen with anything to say about them, negative or otherwise. I quoted you in the review, but all you said was the system isn't good if you google around. Well I did, and couldn't find anything beyond what was in my review that wasn't a reference to you. If you don't like PMM as a nebulous concept, fine, but it doesn't even seem like you have purchased something from them, so why the hate? If there isn a legitimate concern, I want to know about it. I bought the comp blind, so any information would be great. But at first glance, your concerns seem... artificial.
So they don't like facebook? I don't like facebook. There is an actual "contact us" page on their site. It's nested under "About+" which seems reasonable to me and i found in about 10 seconds. They don't have a sitemap, but it's a weebly site, I can live with that if it keeps costs down. https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/contact.html
They say they will ship in their window, and in my experience, they did.
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I've been interested in one of these but every chance they get pmm seem to be bleeping bleepers to their customers. Their website says shipping delays if that bothers you don't order. Their fb message page says we don't respond to fb messages bleep off. Their website has no way to contact them.
Not terribly reassuring, I think I'll just hope/wait for killer innovations to make an 09/07 comp and will buy their p10s comp/barrel when it's available
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Yankchef, could you actually post some links to people with problems with PMM? You are the only one I've ever seen with anything to say about them, negative or otherwise. I quoted you in the review, but all you said was the system isn't good if you google around. Well I did, and couldn't find anything beyond what was in my review that wasn't a reference to you. If you don't like PMM as a nebulous concept, fine, but it doesn't even seem like you have purchased something from them, so why the hate? If there isn a legitimate concern, I want to know about it. I bought the comp blind, so any information would be great. But at first glance, your concerns seem... artificial.
So they don't like facebook? I don't like facebook. There is an actual "contact us" page on their site. It's nested under "About+" which seems reasonable to me and i found in about 10 seconds. They don't have a sitemap, but it's a weebly site, I can live with that if it keeps costs down. https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/contact.html
They say they will ship in their window, and in my experience, they did.
Are you sure it was me that said the system isn't good if you look around because I have not owned a pmm product and I believe I was quoting a raining brass (primary machine) response and whatever I'm thinking of was a long time ago. All I said was I find their general attitude to be rude and a bit elitist or specifically the messages they have on their fb messanger and website. I have not used their products
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I've been interested in one of these but every chance they get pmm seem to be bleeping bleepers to their customers. Their website says shipping delays if that bothers you don't order. Their fb message page says we don't respond to fb messages bleep off. Their website has no way to contact them.
Not terribly reassuring, I think I'll just hope/wait for killer innovations to make an 09/07 comp and will buy their p10s comp/barrel when it's available
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Yankchef, could you actually post some links to people with problems with PMM? You are the only one I've ever seen with anything to say about them, negative or otherwise. I quoted you in the review, but all you said was the system isn't good if you google around. Well I did, and couldn't find anything beyond what was in my review that wasn't a reference to you. If you don't like PMM as a nebulous concept, fine, but it doesn't even seem like you have purchased something from them, so why the hate? If there isn a legitimate concern, I want to know about it. I bought the comp blind, so any information would be great. But at first glance, your concerns seem... artificial.
So they don't like facebook? I don't like facebook. There is an actual "contact us" page on their site. It's nested under "About+" which seems reasonable to me and i found in about 10 seconds. They don't have a sitemap, but it's a weebly site, I can live with that if it keeps costs down. https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/contact.html
They say they will ship in their window, and in my experience, they did.
Are you sure it was me that said the system isn't good if you look around because I have not owned a pmm product and I believe I was quoting a raining brass (primary machine) response. All I said was I find their general attitude to be rude and a bit elitist or specifically the messages they have on their fb messanger and website. I have not used their products
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I just checked and apologise. It was Raining_Brass from PM that expressed concerns with PMM. We may disagree, but I'd rather they be upfront about shipping delays and handle things FIFO, rather than rush someone's order just because they complain loudly enough. If you are LEO or Mil, I'm sure they will fast track whatever you need, and they even have a special email for that. That doesn't say elietist to me, that says fair and principled.
Also, compared to my experience with some other small American manufacturing companies, PMM gets an A+
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I just checked and apologize. It was Raining_Brass from PM that expressed concerns with PMM. We may disagree, but I'd rather they be upfront about shipping delays and handle things FIFO, rather than rush someone's order just because they complain loudly enough. If you are LEO or Mil, I'm sure they will fast track whatever you need, and they even have a special email for that. That doesn't say elitist to me, that says fair and principled.
I mean sure that's fair but as someone who has co-owned a small business I would never say our sandwiches come with pickles on them if you don't like it don't order our sandwiches! I just think it's a bad look. I completely understand shipping delays with the current situation and have no problem waiting for things. I have had a pre order for a holosun 407k for months and I know others have been waiting far longer
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I mean sure that's fair but as someone who has co-owned a small business I would never say our sandwiches come with pickles on them if you don't like it don't order our sandwiches! I just think it's a bad look. I completely understand shipping delays with the current situation and have no problem waiting for things. I have had a pre order for a holosun 407k for months and I know others have been waiting far longer
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Totally fair, but it's more like telling the customer the steak will take 15 minutes and if that's too long, you'll need to find somewhere else to eat. BTW, the shipping delays were a problem long before covid. I think they just have a small company and don't see a need or feel a desire to expand. I can respect that.
I think you should give their stuff a shot. It seems well thought out and they test their stuff, or at least the comps (can't speak to anything else they make). Check out their youtube channel, they have moderately empirical tests in a ransom rest which is so much better than some dude on YT saying "yeah, this gun feels like it kicks less."
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I may try one, I have a p09 with a factory threaded barrel that would be a good match. I've been really interested in the killer innovations products lately but haven't seen much info on them but they seem like they are on the come ups. I kinda want a comp for my q5 sf and p10s but I would need to buy barrels for them first. I had great results with a pm barrel and comp and iffy results with a pm comp on a factory barrel on my p09, but it was probably me screwing it up lol. I also had a pm comp on a cz barrel on a different gun that was good but I didn't shoot it nearly as much as the p09.
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Just an update, another 400 rounds and still no loosening of the comp. PMM sells a comp tool now, but you really don't need it and I think their torque spec might be a little high. Blue locktite seems to be a solid performer (in combo with the right shim stack) and I'd recommend it to anyone who has used up their vial of rockset.