The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ SP-01 and variants => Topic started by: Chef1515 on May 22, 2020, 07:18:48 AM
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I bought an sp01 tactical and was thinking of sending it to cajun gun works for a pro package upgrade. Im curious if it will shoot as well as a shadow 2 after ?
My other option would be returning my walther ppq match if i dont like it and buying a shadow 2.
I want a home defense gun And a range gun so its either
Cajunized sp01 and walther or
Sp01 and shadow 2.
All opinions are welcomed. Thank you.
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Any of the three guns could make an excellent range gun.
For home defense, look at a P-07, Glock 19, FN 509, etc.
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All I will say is that a factory stock handgun will retain more of its value when you want sell it than a non-factory modified handgun.
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I only have experience with one Cajunized SP-01 tactical and one Shadow 2, none with the Walther. To me the SP01 has a crisper trigger than the Shadow in single action but the DA pull is smoother on the Shadow. The Shadow is factory. Both are more accurate than I can consistently shoot. Other than that, to me six of one half dozen of the other.
The SP01 fits my hand better but both are great, just the SP01 a little better.
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I only have experience with one Cajunized SP-01 tactical and one Shadow 2, none with the Walther. To me the SP01 has a crisper trigger than the Shadow in single action but the DA pull is smoother on the Shadow. The Shadow is factory. Both are more accurate than I can consistently shoot. Other than that, to me six of one half dozen of the other.
The SP01 fits my hand better but both are great, just the SP01 a little better.
This is exactly what i wanted to hear. Im going to cajunize my tactical and roll with the walther for home defense. Might also pick up a p09 for home. Thank you.
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I have an SP-01 that has had the Villain package from CJ Maven. It has a slightly lighter trigger than my Shadow 2 with a 13lb hammer spring.
I think that shooting freestyle with two hands, the Shadow 2 is still a better shooter due to weight, sight radius and I prefer the flatter trigger curve of the Shadow 2. However, I think that I might be able to shoot the SP-01 better when I have to shoot one handed in competition due to the feel and the lighter weight and shorter barrel. It is just a bit easier to control with one hand.
Of course, if I have trigger work on the Shadow 2, it will exceed the trigger weight of the SP-01. My SP-01 also now has target sights with a fiber optic front post and G10 grips. These add ons and trigger work really make it shine.
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All I will say is that a factory stock handgun will retain more of its value when you want sell it than a non-factory modified handgun.
While I agree you will not likely get what you put into the gun back, it seems many guns have been sold here that are priced higher (and I assumed sold for higher) than stock due to upgrades (regardless of who installed them). All of the upgrades I have installed (or had installed) from CGW or CZC involved parts that were equal or, in most cases, higher quality than the originals. If you're selling to someone who is familiar with the CZ brand and options, I believe in most cases, they will recognize the added value.
Just my two cents. I'm curious to hear your rationale.
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In general, a factory stock handgun in great condition will fetch ~80% of it's original value (not MRSP), and a modified handgun might only recover 50% of the extra mod. cost, minus 80% of the guns original value. That's been my experience with several sales and watching other sales. I'm not including collectables.
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I actually shot both a Shadow 2 and a Cajunized SP-01 this weekend. I would say both were essentially equal as far as accuracy is concerned. My personal preference is for the SP-01, but I am biased because it is my gun and the Shadow is my buddy's. I will say, the SP-01 was heavily modified (Cajun pro pack, lok grips, TruGlo, TLR1 light), which makes it as expensive as the Shadow 2 in the end. The light actually makes a difference in reducing recoil for me and the Shadow didn't have a light.
I am a hoarder and don't sell my guns, so I do not worry about the resale value. The resale value of the Shadow will clearly be better than a modded SP-01. I've had a blast tinkering with the SP-01 to get it where it is today, so I don't care about resale. I'd say if you love tinkering, go for SP-01. If not, man, Shadow 2 is sweet right out of the box.
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After spending some more time shooting my Shadow 2 with my upgraded SP-01, I can say the Shadow 2 is my preferred shooter. The Shadow 2 does have a 13lb hammer spring, but no other trigger work or polishing. The sight radius, added weight, etc.. just make it better for me. And after practicing with right or left hand only, it was still a bit better for me than the SP-01.
On the other hand, my son prefers the SP-01 to the Shadow 2, so it's going to come down to the individual.
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I went back and forth on this exact issue and ended up going with the sp-01, I handled both in store and I love to tinker so I knew the sp-01 would get the full Cajun treatment (which it did, 2 days after I bought it). They are both top notch and the main deciding factor for me was the sp-01 was the UG suppressor ready model and I wanted the option of putting one of my cans on it.
I didn’t send mine to CGW, I ordered the pro package, strut, grease and a couple recoil springs. All the videos linked here and on their site gave enough details on what/where to polish and how to handle the sear cage so doing the work myself wasn’t an issue at all. Saying all that to say, the added cost and wait time to send to CGW was a big factor for me as well so I’m glad I took it on myself, ended up with a 2.75lb SA pull and 7.75lb DA.
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All I will say is that a factory stock handgun will retain more of its value when you want sell it than a non-factory modified handgun.
I just bought 2 modified used CZ 75 compacts off of GunBroker. Going price for a new one is about $600. I paid $695 for 1 and $705 for the other. each had (new) TruGlow sites that cost $104, $80 grip upgrades, one had an extra mag and 3 $20 each upgraded mag bases and one had a Cajun trigger return spring and pin. I figure I save $100 on each
i have already put a Cajun pro package in one and will modify the other when it gets here.
Modifying a gun does not necessarily decrease its value.
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All I will say is that a factory stock handgun will retain more of its value when you want sell it than a non-factory modified handgun.
I just bought 2 modified used CZ 75 compacts off of GunBroker. Going price for a new one is about $600. I paid $695 for 1 and $705 for the other. each had (new) TruGlow sites that cost $104, $80 grip upgrades, one had an extra mag and 3 $20 each upgraded mag bases and one had a Cajun trigger return spring and pin. I figure I save $100 on each
i have already put a Cajun pro package in one and will modify the other when it gets here.
Modifying a gun does not necessarily decrease its value.
Your buys confirm what I initially posted. The original owner did not recoup the modded cost.
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Well hell.. ill chime in. Ive got a tricked out SP01 shadow, stock S2 and CTS-LSP to compare. all pretty much the same trigger, grip and sight picture. where they differ is the mass, the mass of the slide and the center of gravity.
IMO the S2 is nose heavy - the SP01 with a large magwell and either TS upper or bull shadow upper feels much more balanced in the hand, the BS upper is amazing compared to the stock sp01 slide - It really soaks up the recoil and cuts the muzzle flip in half. If I were to build a carry optics gun I think this would be the platform - SP01 BULL SHADOW - But I recall my first few days shooting the CTS-LSP on a CZC tuned 75SA frame - there was something magical in how the sights returned. In recoil / muzzle flip it felt like an SP01 but there was something else there.. I call it balanced. Perfectly balanced in the hand and with factory ammo. If I were to shoot production I think that is the path I would go.. but reload my own and match the springs to the load. Lighter frames are a thing. Bull barrels are a thing. Return to zero load/spring matching is a thing. There is a reason the Tanfo Stock II is still very popular. Tanfo found that sweet spot. Ditto Atlas Titan/Nemesis.
Unless you plan on carrying it IMO a SP01 just doesn't compare all that well to the CZ S2, Stock 2, CTS-LPS, or any of the CZC bull variants - but it would top the list as an all-around tool. Now the SP01 Shadow makes a great frame to start a build - but I strongly suggest trying an SP01 side by side with a Bull Shadow or Stock 2 with the same ammo to feel the difference.
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If you were only looking for a range toy, either would be a fine choice. But since you say you also want it for home defense, I would go with the SP-01, primarily because you get a full rail for mounting a WML & tritium night sights, both of which I think are important features on a home defense gun. With a starting price that's half the cost of a Shadow 2, you can easily turn the SP-01 into an excellent shooter, and I would argue, a pistol that is ultimately more versatile.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/jrYpqk.jpg)
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If you were only looking for a range toy, either would be a fine choice. But since you say you also want it for home defense, I would go with the SP-01, primarily because you get a full rail for mounting a WML & tritium night sights, both of which I think are important features on a home defense gun. With a starting price that's half the cost of a Shadow 2, you can easily turn the SP-01 into an excellent shooter, and I would argue, a pistol that is ultimately more versatile.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/jrYpqk.jpg)
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the Shadow2 technically not 100% drop safe either, that’s not something I’d want in a HD gun, SP-01 would be better for that.
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In general, a factory stock handgun in great condition will fetch ~80% of it's original value (not MRSP), and a modified handgun might only recover 50% of the extra mod. cost, minus 80% of the guns original value. That's been my experience with several sales and watching other sales. I'm not including collectables.
And the 80% might be a stretch. I always figure I am doing good at 70% of MSRP stock factory handgun.
Just sayin'
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Well hell.. ill chime in. Ive got a tricked out SP01 shadow, stock S2 and CTS-LSP to compare. all pretty much the same trigger, grip and sight picture. where they differ is the mass, the mass of the slide and the center of gravity.
IMO the S2 is nose heavy - the SP01 with a large magwell and either TS upper or bull shadow upper feels much more balanced in the hand, the BS upper is amazing compared to the stock sp01 slide - It really soaks up the recoil and cuts the muzzle flip in half. If I were to build a carry optics gun I think this would be the platform - SP01 BULL SHADOW - But I recall my first few days shooting the CTS-LSP on a CZC tuned 75SA frame - there was something magical in how the sights returned. In recoil / muzzle flip it felt like an SP01 but there was something else there.. I call it balanced. Perfectly balanced in the hand and with factory ammo. If I were to shoot production I think that is the path I would go.. but reload my own and match the springs to the load. Lighter frames are a thing. Bull barrels are a thing. Return to zero load/spring matching is a thing. There is a reason the Tanfo Stock II is still very popular. Tanfo found that sweet spot. Ditto Atlas Titan/Nemesis.
Unless you plan on carrying it IMO a SP01 just doesn't compare all that well to the CZ S2, Stock 2, CTS-LPS, or any of the CZC bull variants - but it would top the list as an all-around tool. Now the SP01 Shadow makes a great frame to start a build - but I strongly suggest trying an SP01 side by side with a Bull Shadow or Stock 2 with the same ammo to feel the difference.
I share your sentiments about the bull shadows from CZC. I have a 75 Bull Shadow OR and I shoot it far better than any of my 1911s, cost notwithstanding. I also have an SP-01 Shadow Orange (sku 91764) which is a great shooter also but just a step down from the Bull Shadow.
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Here is my take as a tinkerer and a trigger snob.
For HD, I would go SP-01
I sold an S2 to buy parts to build the 01 and convert it to SAO. Sold it and never looked back. The stipling is not as good as the S2 but everything else is as good or better.
People say it can't be done or wasting their time building up the 01s, but they don't take into consideration the SAO convert is cheap/easy/awesome.
bonus - no threaded barrels available for the S2, but for the 01 yep!
Show me a any threaded barrel SAO CZ for under many $$$
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Cajunize the SP01 and the Shadow 2. The reset on my S2 is so short, compared to the SP01. Both triggers are phenomenal I say get both, and Cajunize both, then get Walther (if you must) My preference would be a p320 xfive for HD.
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I've got an SP01 decocker. I love the thing. I sent it off to CGW for a pro package and milling for an SRO install. It's mostly a range and local comp gun but I'd use it for home defense too. I think it'd serve both your purposes. Buy a CGW pro package and install it yourself to save both a boat load of money and time (it's not hard, I've now done 4 pro package installs and internal polishings, 3 on decocker models and one on a safety model - one of the installs was sort of a reinstall in my PCR which CGW did first but I wasn't happy with the final DA pull so I stripped it and re-polished it). It's pretty satisfying to do it yourself and there are a ton of great videos out there and CGW is great answering questions. Anyway, with a 13lb main spring you'd end up with a gun that you can easily use for both home defense and the range. Mine has an 11.5ib spring and it has a DA of 4lbs 6oz and SA or 1lb 11oz. I haven't tried an S2 so can't speak to any comparisons but the trigger reset on the SP01 isn't bad at all. Could be a bit shorter on SA but it's just fine when I'm shooting steel or taking my time. That all said, if you really want 2 dedicated guns, get both an SP01 (or P01) and an S2 or even check out CZC offerings seem like a good idea. I'm looking at an A01-LD OR for my final CZ75 based gun for the range and comps but there are less spendy options.
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A CGW SP01 will be better than a stock S2. At least that's my personal observation from owning a smith tuned SP01 and S2.
Of course, once you tune the S2 then the trigger does slightly outshine the SP01... so it really then comes down to which one feels better or points better for you.