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GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: dannyvi on April 22, 2021, 01:35:41 AM

Title: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: dannyvi on April 22, 2021, 01:35:41 AM
Someone should build one just as thin as the Hellcat or Sig p365!!i would be all over it!!
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on April 22, 2021, 01:43:46 PM
Someone should build one just as thin as the Hellcat or Sig p365!!i would be all over it!!


Aside from the Rami, the H&K P30sk?

If it was optic ready from the factory, I’d be all over one of those right now.

Otherwise, besides the Rami, Sig P224, Beretta PX4, Sphinx, Bersa?

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/6-dasa-subcompacts-for-concealed-carry/

Unfortunately, a lot of these subcompact DA/SA pistols, including the Rami, have been discontinued as the trend has been towards the plastic, striker-fired fad.

Also, unfortunately, none of the DA/SA subcompacts have come “optics ready” from the factory, unlike a few of the striker guns, which is probably the biggest step forward in handguns. I guess there’s always CGW...
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: dannyvi on April 25, 2021, 01:47:08 AM
I do have the Beretta PX4 in compact and the HK P30SK.Love it but still too thick! Thinking of something like thinner an inch thickness like the Sig  P365. Not into striker fired as I feel that DA/SA is just as good when in the SA mode. Same nice trigger pull!
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: polecat on April 29, 2021, 10:34:09 AM

Spot on! Would even like a poly CZ micro ish “2011”
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: GRU7_Mike on April 29, 2021, 11:06:51 AM
Someone should build one just as thin as the Hellcat or Sig p365!!i would be all over it!!

My XDe is about as thin as I would want a firearm.  Great D/A trigger and the S/A is smooth and light.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: dwhite on April 29, 2021, 03:27:16 PM
I agree. I'd be all over something like that in a heartbeat!

Unfortunately I don't think I represent the vast majority of shooters who all seem to prefer plastic-fantastic striker fired guns.

So for now I carry my P-01 when I can and my S&W Shield when I have to (I've owned and then sold a Sig P365. Not a bad gun, but I just preferred the Shield).

Naturally, I shoot the P-01 MUCH better than the Shield.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: GMork on April 29, 2021, 04:20:32 PM
Bye
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on April 29, 2021, 05:10:55 PM
It was written here almost ad nauseam that CZ should offer a sub-compact version of the P07.  But apparently CZ is unfortunately hard of hearing in this regard. 
Or we should write it here much more often according to the motto: Constant dripping wears away the stone.  ;D


CZ never could make enough Rami BDs to keep in stock - flew off the shelves. The safety models, not so much, but they continued to make them instead of more BDs for some stupid reason. Kind of like buying Colt and keeping their management with the idea of rebuilding the plant in CT instead of taking the name and moving everything to new facilities down South. Dumb.

A Rami II, optics ready with a rail would be a winner...but noooooo, they’ve got to make plastique Glock clones.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: CZ_FANATIC on April 30, 2021, 03:03:06 PM
Not a Subcompact, but I added a new HK 45C to the collection yesterday. She is Ultra Sweet.  8)
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Northern on May 01, 2021, 04:18:21 PM
@cz_fanatic, I have one too. You will love it. Problem these days is that .45 ammunition is exceedingly scarce.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: CZ_FANATIC on May 01, 2021, 06:04:18 PM
@cz_fanatic, I have one too. You will love it. Problem these days is that .45 ammunition is exceedingly scarce.

Oh yeah, a totally awesome handgun. I have developed a serious HK Addiction. Deutschland!  8)
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Northern on May 02, 2021, 11:40:20 AM
Is it DA/SA or LEM?
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: CZ_FANATIC on May 02, 2021, 07:21:17 PM
Is it DA/SA or LEM?

DA/SA on this one.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Hammer Time on May 02, 2021, 09:43:21 PM
Not a Subcompact, but I added a new HK 45C to the collection yesterday. She is Ultra Sweet.  8)

I have a 45C V3 and love it. Butter-smooth trigger and so ridiculously accurate it even makes my shooting look good.  :D

As for whether CZ is listening to feedback about demand for a sub-com DA/SA or not, I wouldn't say that they aren't listening. I'd just say they remain unconvinced it has sufficient market appeal. A handful of CZ fanatics on this forum asking for one is hardly represents a large segment of the market. Like it or not, it's not what the vast majority of gun buyers are asking for. The P30SK is probably as close as you're going to get, and it's a really good option, actually.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: sevt_chevelle on May 02, 2021, 10:22:35 PM
Ramis in my area sat on the shelf and collected dust.
IMO the rami was a dud, I'll take the PCR any day of week over a rami and twice on Sunday over a p365.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on May 04, 2021, 03:08:36 AM
Ramis in my area sat on the shelf and collected dust.
IMO the rami was a dud, I'll take the PCR any day of week over a rami and twice on Sunday over a p365.


Huh...not sure how a pistol in continuous production for 17 years could be considered a dud. If anything, the Rami BD was just too hard to find, or maybe too hard to make in this era of cheap (to make) plastique and MIM subcompact striker pistols.

The only Ramis I’ve seen sit on the shelf at a LGS for any length of time have been the B “safety” model 2075s, which are not nearly as desirable as the de-cocker BD model, which has developed a cult following. I don’t know why CZ made the safety model Rami in any numbers - they certainly weren’t nearly as popular as the BD. Usually, the BDs got snapped up pretty fast from distributors, gunwatcher, etc. as soon as they arrived in the US. Occasionally, you might find one in some out of the way gunshop where the clientele are ignorant of what they are. I found two 2020 BDs a few months ago in a LGS in a little podunk town - of course I snapped them right up PDQ since they aren’t being made right now. Hopefully, CZ will bring the Rami back in the near future - updated with a rail and optics ready! One can hope...or send their Rami to CGW...
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Rcher on May 05, 2021, 05:53:38 AM
One of the unique small guns is Walther P99c AS.
It is striker gun, but with DA/SA, it's the only striker which is possible to cock and decock.

Unfortunately, it's a rare gun, hard to find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCroXl1Y22U
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on May 05, 2021, 11:55:35 AM
One of the unique small guns is Walther P99c AS.
It is striker gun, but with DA/SA, it's the only striker which is possible to cock and decock.

Unfortunately, it's a rare gun, hard to find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCroXl1Y22U


Interesting!

The FN 509 has a DA/SA striker set up as well, though no ability to decock it. After racking the slide, the first trigger pull is longish and subsequent pulls about half as long after reset. Along with the hinged “safety” trigger, it seems very safe to carry with a round in the chamber.

However, IMO, nothing beats a good hammer-fired DA/SA trigger pull, especially if you run into a hard primer.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Claymore504 on May 12, 2021, 03:18:13 PM
I do not view the Rami as a dud at all. It is pretty much the same size as the legendary Glock 26/27. I owned a Rami for a while and liked it, but decided my M&P Shield got carried more and sold off the Rami. Now, before I got the Rami I had never heard of it and 99% of people that got to check it out at the range had never heard of it either.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: GMork on May 13, 2021, 01:01:33 AM
...
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on May 13, 2021, 03:46:43 AM
I do not view the Rami as a dud at all. It is pretty much the same size as the legendary Glock 26/27. I owned a Rami for a while and liked it, but decided my M&P Shield got carried more and sold off the Rami. Now, before I got the Rami I had never heard of it and 99% of people that got to check it out at the range had never heard of it either.


The Rami is also the same size as the Sig P365XL and the FN 509c, but with better ergos and trigger.

Now that Leupold started producing the Delta Micro red dot, which mounts low like a ghost ring on the rear sight dovetail on Glocks and the M&P, hopefully they’ll make a hammer friendly version for CZs.

That way, you wouldn’t have to have your slide custom machined for a rds.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: RoverSig on May 14, 2021, 12:08:25 AM
I have to throw a vote in here for the Springfield XD-E.  For someone who prefers a DA/SA pistol (with the option of a 1911-like safety), the XD-E is a good choice.   They are not pretty, but they are thin, hold 10 rounds, and are super reliable.   And the trigger is long and deliberate in DA mode (revolver-like) and precise and light in the SA mode.   And they are not expensive, relatively speaking.

I wish CZ would out with a single-stack, 10 round, relatively small (but not so small it lacks reliability) pistol -- call it a RAMI 2.0 if you want -- that would fill this niche.  It would work for a lot of people who prefer DA/SA pistols (including 1911's) for their triggers and inherent safety.  And 10 round magazines may become the limit if gun controllers get their way, making this size pistol a good option.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Rcher on May 14, 2021, 04:07:04 AM
From a safety standpoint, in my opinion, an externally visible hammer is still the very best option to see at first glance whether a gun is cocked or not.  The red pin that protrudes when cocked on a Walther P99 is a great safety advantage compared to other striker-fired pistols, but is still not as conspicuous as a cocked hammer.

I agree with you, historically I didn't like striker and "plastic" guns, but to be honest hammer handguns are close to their extinction. :(
All new models are striker guns, and hammer guns are discontinued one by one. XD-M was the first striker pistol which impressed me with its ergonomics and accuracy, and P99 could be another one - I need to try.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: GRU7_Mike on May 15, 2021, 02:56:41 PM
I like about every CZ handgun there is ..... except the RAMI.  Just something about it I do not like.  CZ compact or P-01 is my favorite EDC CZ.  P-07 my favorite range CZ, although a P-09 at a good deal would be a consideration.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on May 16, 2021, 02:47:44 AM
I like about every CZ handgun there is ..... except the RAMI.  Just something about it I do not like.  CZ compact or P-01 is my favorite EDC CZ.  P-07 my favorite range CZ, although a P-09 at a good deal would be a consideration.


Have you actually shot a Rami? They’re pretty much identical to all CZ75s internally and ergonomically. The short grip can be remedied by an extended floor plate.

I know they may LOOK a little funky until you shoot one - same as all CZ75s - I learned to appreciate the aesthetics once I started shooting them.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on May 16, 2021, 05:36:56 AM
I like about every CZ handgun there is ..... except the RAMI.  Just something about it I do not like.  CZ compact or P-01 is my favorite EDC CZ.  P-07 my favorite range CZ, although a P-09 at a good deal would be a consideration.
Have you actually shot a Rami? The short grip can be remedied by an extended floor plate.
And this is EXACTLY the downfall for those of us who don't like the RAMI. If we need to add a floorplate/mag extension to make the gun comfortable too shoot then it becomes no more concealable than a standard compact at that point and the PCR or P-01 are the better option.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Hammer Time on May 16, 2021, 08:47:17 AM
And this is EXACTLY the downfall for those of us who don't like the RAMI. If we need to add a floorplate/mag extension to make the gun comfortable too shoot then it becomes no more concealable than a standard compact at that point and the PCR or P-01 are the better option.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: sevt_chevelle on May 16, 2021, 09:12:45 AM
Yep.
Plus they weigh about the same.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on May 16, 2021, 10:42:18 AM
I like about every CZ handgun there is ..... except the RAMI.  Just something about it I do not like.  CZ compact or P-01 is my favorite EDC CZ.  P-07 my favorite range CZ, although a P-09 at a goodw deal would be a consideration.
Have you actually shot a Rami? The short grip can be remedied by an extended floor plate.
And this is EXACTLY the downfall for those of us who don't like the RAMI. If we need to add a floorplate/mag extension to make the gun comfortable too shoot then it becomes no more concealable than a standard compact at that point and the PCR or P-01 are the better option.


Of course, this is a thread about SUBCOMPACT DA/SA pistols. Maybe you guys should start a thread about (barely) compact pistols....
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on May 16, 2021, 11:02:58 AM
I like about every CZ handgun there is ..... except the RAMI.  Just something about it I do not like.  CZ compact or P-01 is my favorite EDC CZ.  P-07 my favorite range CZ, although a P-09 at a goodw deal would be a consideration.
Have you actually shot a Rami? The short grip can be remedied by an extended floor plate.
And this is EXACTLY the downfall for those of us who don't like the RAMI. If we need to add a floorplate/mag extension to make the gun comfortable too shoot then it becomes no more concealable than a standard compact at that point and the PCR or P-01 are the better option.


Of course, this is a thread about SUBCOMPACT DA/SA pistols. Maybe you guys should start a thread about (barely) compact pistols....
And when you start adding grip extensions to subcompact pistols to make them fit a man's hands they are no longer SUBCOMPACT so then we could include the no longer subcompact Rami with extension  in that thread too.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on May 18, 2021, 11:46:49 PM
I like about every CZ handgun there is ..... except the RAMI.  Just something about it I do not like.  CZ compact or P-01 is my favorite EDC CZ.  P-07 my favorite range CZ, although a P-09 at a goodw deal would be a consideration.
Have you actually shot a Rami? The short grip can be remedied by an extended floor plate.
And this is EXACTLY the downfall for those of us who don't like the RAMI. If we need to add a floorplate/mag extension to make the gun comfortable too shoot then it becomes no more concealable than a standard compact at that point and the PCR or P-01 are the better option.


Of course, this is a thread about SUBCOMPACT DA/SA pistols. Maybe you guys should start a thread about (barely) compact pistols....
And when you start adding grip extensions to subcompact pistols to make them fit a man's hands they are no longer SUBCOMPACT so then we could include the no longer subcompact Rami with extension  in that thread too.


The extended floor plate on my Rami only extends 1/4” lower, which makes the grip 3/4” shorter than my P-01, plus the slide is 1” shorter, so...still subcompact.

But show us on the anatomically-correct doll what the bad Rami did to you to make you hate it so.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on May 19, 2021, 05:16:54 AM
I like about every CZ handgun there is ..... except the RAMI.  Just something about it I do not like.  CZ compact or P-01 is my favorite EDC CZ.  P-07 my favorite range CZ, although a P-09 at a goodw deal would be a consideration.
Have you actually shot a Rami? The short grip can be remedied by an extended floor plate.
And this is EXACTLY the downfall for those of us who don't like the RAMI. If we need to add a floorplate/mag extension to make the gun comfortable too shoot then it becomes no more concealable than a standard compact at that point and the PCR or P-01 are the better option.


Of course, this is a thread about SUBCOMPACT DA/SA pistols. Maybe you guys should start a thread about (barely) compact pistols....
And when you start adding grip extensions to subcompact pistols to make them fit a man's hands they are no longer SUBCOMPACT so then we could include the no longer subcompact Rami with extension  in that thread too.


The extended floor plate on my Rami only extends 1/4” lower, which makes the grip 3/4” shorter than my P-01, plus the slide is 1” shorter, so...still subcompact.

But show us on the anatomically-correct doll what the bad Rami did to you to make you hate it so.
We already told you what we don't like. You simply can't handle the fact that the Rami is gone and you can't make others like the same thing as you. You and others like the pistol while others do not and really it's not a hard concept for most of us to understand. There's a reason the market is as diverse as it is.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: BarkingAnt on May 19, 2021, 09:32:48 AM
I have to ask this: has anyone ever shot a .40 S&W Rami? What's the recoil like? I have a Tristar c-100 in 40, recoil is no worse than a .40 75B. I imagine Rami recoil would be more pronounced.

Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: alp3367 on May 19, 2021, 10:42:07 AM
I have to ask this: has anyone ever shot a .40 S&W Rami? What's the recoil like? I have a Tristar c-100 in 40, recoil is no worse than a .40 75B. I imagine Rami recoil would be more pronounced.

 I've shot the old poly framed one. It's...stout. I would not recommend. There is a reason it's no longer made.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on May 19, 2021, 07:02:35 PM
I have to ask this: has anyone ever shot a .40 S&W Rami? What's the recoil like? I have a Tristar c-100 in 40, recoil is no worse than a .40 75B. I imagine Rami recoil would be more pronounced.

 I've shot the old poly framed one. It's...stout. I would not recommend. There is a reason it's no longer made.
The polymer framed Rami was discontinued long ago as they had issues with the frames. The metal framed Rami was/is a solid performer albeit just not my cup.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: BarkingAnt on May 20, 2021, 09:19:03 AM
I have to ask this: has anyone ever shot a .40 S&W Rami? What's the recoil like? I have a Tristar c-100 in 40, recoil is no worse than a .40 75B. I imagine Rami recoil would be more pronounced.

 I've shot the old poly framed one. It's...stout. I would not recommend. There is a reason it's no longer made.

Thanks for info, I've eyeballed them wondering. Bought a 10mm Double Eagle a long time ago, it was more than I wanted for a defensive pistol and I traded it back in for a .45 ACP.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: DW06 on May 27, 2021, 08:58:38 AM
I like about every CZ handgun there is ..... except the RAMI.  Just something about it I do not like.  CZ compact or P-01 is my favorite EDC CZ.  P-07 my favorite range CZ, although a P-09 at a good deal would be a consideration.

That's because the Rami is basically straight in the back compared to the nice rounded hump a P-01 has.  You can use the Handgun Hero website to overlay them on top of each other and see for yourself.  Side by side they're very noticeable to me, both in hand and by eye; it makes the Rami very off-putting to me too.

I've read somewhere that CZ would run into import restrictions if they tried to bring in smaller guns, which is why they don't make single stacks.  Anyone know if that's correct?
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: newageroman on May 27, 2021, 09:30:48 AM
yes, but that was before they opened up a US location last year.
I'm patiently waiting for a single stack sub from them WITH a hammer of course..
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: DW06 on May 27, 2021, 07:45:58 PM
Ty for the info!  And yes to hammer from me... But I highly doubt it'll happen
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: CZ_FANATIC on May 27, 2021, 08:24:05 PM
I Purchased the Very Best Subcompact Today  8)
HK P30SK LEM Trigger

(https://i.imgur.com/WMVogQz.jpg)

Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Hammer Time on May 28, 2021, 01:12:37 AM
^ Great choice. I think that if you want a sub-com DA/SA pistol, the P30SK is one of the best options available these days.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on May 28, 2021, 05:16:20 AM
I Purchased the Very Best Subcompact Today  8)
HK P30SK LEM Trigger

Very nice. Let us know how it shoots for you. I thought I wanted one a couple years ago until I actually handled one. Then not so much.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: CZ_FANATIC on May 28, 2021, 08:18:01 AM
I love the ergonomics. With the medium backstrap and side plates, she fits my hand like a glove.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on May 28, 2021, 08:45:44 AM
I love the ergonomics. With the medium backstrap and side plates, she fits my hand like a glove.
I really like the gun but like the Rami the grip was just too short for me otherwise I would have definitely bought one.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Northern on May 28, 2021, 11:27:17 AM
I have one, too, also LEM, and I love it. Have both versions of the ten round mag as well as 13 and 15 round extended mags; and I recently picked up a VP9SK. As to the comment about shooting them, I’ve enjoyed shooting both every bit as much as shooting my P-01.
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Hammer Time on May 28, 2021, 12:13:45 PM
I have one, too, also LEM, and I love it. Have both versions of the ten round mag as well as 13 and 15 round extended mags; and I recently picked up a VP9SK. As to the comment about shooting them, I’ve enjoyed shooting both every bit as much as shooting my P-01.

I picked up a VP9SK about a month ago and love it. First range trip with it I was knocking down plates @ 15 yds with ease, and I can't say that about every sub-compact I've shot. But I think I 'need' a P30 in the stable as well....
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Northern on May 28, 2021, 03:58:58 PM
@hammer time:
And you “need” a P30L... and I need a VP9L ... and and and... 🤣
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: MeatAxe on May 28, 2021, 04:46:31 PM
I Purchased the Very Best Subcompact Today  8)
HK P30SK LEM Trigger

(https://i.imgur.com/WMVogQz.jpg)

Interesting...a DA/SA decocker would be good. Can you get these rds optics-ready from the factory?
Title: Re: Subcompact DA/SA
Post by: Hammer Time on May 28, 2021, 04:55:31 PM
@hammer time:
And you “need” a P30L... and I need a VP9L ... and and and... 🤣

Indeed. Almost picked up a long slide for my VP9 the other day. That and the CZ P-10s are my favorites strikers, hands-down.

Interesting...a DA/SA decocker would be good. Can you get these rds optics-ready from the factory?

Unfortunately they do not. Currently, anyway. But the P30SK optics-ready would be a sweet package.