The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Right to Keep and Bear Arms => Topic started by: Wobbly on April 22, 2021, 11:02:24 AM
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A new website TheReload.Com is digging into the trouble at the NRA. An on-going history of gross mis-management of funds (multiple cases of embezzlement) has come to light in the NY State bankruptcy trial which the NRA is currently engaged in. The NY court could appoint a trustee to run the NRA when they rule on April 30. You may wish to read about this.
https://thereload.com/nra-board-calls-emergency-meeting-as-bankruptcy-revelations-mount/
The place to do it is TheReload.Com, becasue the NRA is certainly not going to report anything negative about themselves. This is fair, balanced reporting on gun-related issues by people INSIDE the gun industry. As such they are sensitive to gun issues and don't have a political "ax to grind". So it's the one place you can find unbiased reporting on gun issues.
https://thereload.com/
;)
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The NRA has been a terrible organization for a while now. This doesn't surprise me.
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The embezzlement (as bad as it is) is not what gets me. It's the hiring of top people who were fired from previous jobs for embezzlement. Obviously there is a culture of being less than straight forward and truthful about money.
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I have not trusted the NRA for quite some time. Nevertheless, I can just about guarantee that the lawsuits in NY have absolutely nothing to do with embezzlement. That is, while embezzlement may exist, that is not the motivation behind the legal action. The NRA has always been the most effective impediment to gun grabbers. Do not think for one second that they do not relish this opportunity to destroy that impediment. It is ceratainly nothing for us to celebrate. Just my two cents, I reckon.
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I have not trusted the NRA for quite some time. Nevertheless, I can just about guarantee that the lawsuits in NY have absolutely nothing to do with embezzlement. That is, while embezzlement may exist, that is not the motivation behind the legal action. The NRA has always been the most effective impediment to gun grabbers. Do not think for one second that they do not relish this opportunity to destroy that impediment. It is ceratainly nothing for us to celebrate. Just my two cents, I reckon.
I agree completely. I do hate to see the NRA in this condition but I'd hate to see the stinking government win in any capacity. The NRA has been the front group fighting the anti's for decades and they would certainly love to bring them down.
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The embezzlement (as bad as it is) is not what gets me. It's the hiring of top people who were fired from previous jobs for embezzlement. Obviously there is a culture of being less than straight forward and truthful about money.
You just described our local, state and federal governments countrywide to a T. Among other groups who pilfer money they didn't earn.
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The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
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The State of NY has been hostile to guns and gun owners for decades. Several big gun makers have left the state over the last decade. The recent break-up of Remington will probably bring even more. While I understand that NY used to be the center of US shooting around 1900, that has changed. Why the NRA hasn't moved its charter before now is simply beyond me.
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I'm not a conspiracy theorist, or not much of one anyway...but I admit that I suspect many institutions are the target of a deep smear campaign. Given the side the bulk of the media is on, the truth gets twisted and/or over or under reported as needed.
Sure, there has been mismanagement at the NRA. I think there is from time to time in any organization that size. But like someone else said, I'll take the NRA any day over the antis.
Just my opinion, which together with two cents will give you two pennies.
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The embezzlement (as bad as it is) is not what gets me. It's the hiring of top people who were fired from previous jobs for embezzlement. Obviously there is a culture of being less than straight forward and truthful about money.
Wait, are you talking about the government or NRA? ;D
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The thing is that we need the NRA; even if in name only. They're the boogie man to the gun-grabbers who will feel even more emboldened if the NRA is gone.
Most of us know that other organizations (GOA and many others) are currently more deserving of our financial support; but they don't come close to the "name value" of the NRA. I pray for a new and improved NRA without Wayne-and-company.
Having said that; I will donate nothing more to the NRA until Wayne is gone.
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The thing is that we need the NRA; even if in name only. They're the boogie man to the gun-grabbers who will feel even more emboldened if the NRA is gone.
Most of us know that other organizations (GOA and many others) are currently more deserving of our financial support; but they don't come close to the "name value" of the NRA. I pray for a new and improved NRA without Wayne-and-company.
Having said that; I will donate nothing more to the NRA until Wayne is gone.
You are 100% correct. In every respect.
What bothers me, and what might cost me friends, is what I see behind at least some of the comments related to the NRA.
The thing is there is probably no more opinionated, to include for minor reasons- disapproving group...than gun owners. In that I think that the overall concept of whatever it takes to keep our rights, sometimes gets lost. In the simplest terms, that which helps us is good- even if only a little bit. That which hurts us is bad, even if only a little bit (even if it is someone's idea of being more "pure to the cause"
The enemy of my enemy...is my friend...to some extent anyway. I can think of better ways to show my displeasure at the scandals of the NRA, than abandoning the organization.
Some will disagree, hopefully they can see we are on the same side. I fear that disagreement will be used against us all.
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There also are other organizations that lobby in favor of gun rights:
Gun Owners of America www.gunowners.org
Virginia Citizens Defense Leage VCDL - www.vcdl.org
American Suppressor Association www.americansuppressorassociation.com
If you know of others, I'd be interested to hear about them.
Thanks!
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If you know of others, I'd be interested to hear about them.
Georgia Carry is a very active 2A supporter working within GA. They've had huge success overturning city and county anti-2A laws based on the Georgia Constitution. - http://www.georgiacarry.org/
If you live in Georgia, then you need to join.
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The only reason I pay dues to the NRA is that the gun club I belong to requires it, since their insurance is through them. A few months ago the board started looking into alternatives but, unfortunately, there aren't many options out there.
I truly hope that the NRA gets cleaned up and flourishes. As others have said, the name alone is a major thorn in the anti's rear end.
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The only reason I pay dues to the NRA is that the gun club I belong to requires it, since their insurance is through them. A few months ago the board started looking into alternatives but, unfortunately, there aren't many options out there.
I truly hope that the NRA gets cleaned up and flourishes. As others have said, the name alone is a major thorn in the anti's rear end.
While i understand much of the animosity directed at the NRA, I will NEVER understand why gunowners wont draw together and in the spirit of .....trying to preserve our rights, back the organization best able to do so. Problems be bleeped.
There, I said it.
And yes I am already well versed in the typical replies, but we are engaged in a fight for our lives where firearms rights are concerned...to me thats more important than whether or not an advocacy group is a as "pure" as one would prefer...either ideologically or economincally
And while other groups do work toward the same end, none have the size, sound or weight of the NRA. Thats why the NRA is targeted so obviously and unashamedly by the enemy. Problems within the structure only make that easier.
I know I will be attacked, but my stance is that gun owners (myself included) tend to be overly-opinionated individualists...and sometimes lose the focus of trying to win...we wont win carping over which lobby group is pure enough...we need which group has the muscle to do the job.
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I'm not going to donate any more of my hard earned money to an organization that has been corrupt to its core for a long time now. The head of that snake needs to be cut off. Until that happens, not another penny. It's that simple.
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There also are other organizations that lobby in favor of gun rights:
Gun Owners of America www.gunowners.org
Virginia Citizens Defense Leage VCDL - www.vcdl.org
American Suppressor Association www.americansuppressorassociation.com
If you know of others, I'd be interested to hear about them.
Thanks!
Second Amendment Foundation (SAF)
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I'm not defending the graft at the NRA in any form and they should have quietly cleaned house when these situations occurred yet they let the participants stay in power which was/is a very poorly thought out decision. That said if anyone thinks there isn't some graft at the top in the GOA or the SAF or any other outfit from gun advocates to veterans charities and the rest you have your head squarely planted in the sand. Give people a chance too snag a bit extra and they'll jump at the chance every time even when the prize is seemingly small or inconsequential. Leave the cookie jar unattended and junior will have cookies every time.
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As a Life member of the NRA and a member since like 1991 - i am saddened and disgusted by the NRA, the board, and Wayne himself.
Our hard earned monies have been wasted on suits, houses, interns, etc.
Wayne and the entire board that keeps him power needs to go.
I havent read the bylaws and I suppose I need to, there should be some mechanism to get rid of them all.
We as the paying members of the NRA should be able to force Wayne and his cronies out, force new elections, and put into place a real set of accountants to prevent this from ever happening again.
I am going to go see if i can find the bylaws online...
In the meantime we should start a petition. I bet someone already has.
JAG
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There is an online petition to remove Wayne, but not sure it will meet the requirements of the by-laws.
Section IX here...
https://www.creditslips.org/files/nra-bylaws.compressed.pdf
here is the petition
https://www.change.org/p/nra-board-of-directors-remove-wayne-lapierre-from-nra-office
JAG
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I'm not defending the graft at the NRA in any form and they should have quietly cleaned house when these situations occurred yet they let the participants stay in power which was/is a very poorly thought out decision. That said if anyone thinks there isn't some graft at the top in the GOA or the SAF or any other outfit from gun advocates to veterans charities and the rest you have your head squarely planted in the sand. Give people a chance too snag a bit extra and they'll jump at the chance every time even when the prize is seemingly small or inconsequential. Leave the cookie jar unattended and junior will have cookies every time.
Well said.
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The only reason I pay dues to the NRA is that the gun club I belong to requires it, since their insurance is through them. A few months ago the board started looking into alternatives but, unfortunately, there aren't many options out there.
I truly hope that the NRA gets cleaned up and flourishes. As others have said, the name alone is a major thorn in the anti's rear end.
While i understand much of the animosity directed at the NRA, I will NEVER understand why gunowners wont draw together and in the spirit of .....trying to preserve our rights, back the organization best able to do so. Problems be bleeped.
There, I said it.
And yes I am already well versed in the typical replies, but we are engaged in a fight for our lives where firearms rights are concerned...to me thats more important than whether or not an advocacy group is a as "pure" as one would prefer...either ideologically or economincally
And while other groups do work toward the same end, none have the size, sound or weight of the NRA. Thats why the NRA is targeted so obviously and unashamedly by the enemy. Problems within the structure only make that easier.
I know I will be attacked, but my stance is that gun owners (myself included) tend to be overly-opinionated individualists...and sometimes lose the focus of trying to win...we wont win carping over which lobby group is pure enough...we need which group has the muscle to do the job.
I agree with that..
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The NRA has to be bleeding members.... that should be telling and YELLING for leadership changes.
Makes no reason for me to walk (paid-for life membership eons ago), but I personally know four shooters that have moved on from yearly memberships until things change. Betcha many others know others doing the same.
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The NRA has to be bleeding members.... that should be telling and YELLING for leadership changes.
Makes no reason for me to walk (paid-for life membership eons ago), but I personally know four shooters that have moved on from yearly memberships until things change. Betcha many others know others doing the same.
Im a life member also. I'll make a point though, those who do walk away arent doing themselves or our firearms freedoms any favors. It makes more sense to try and right what is wrong in the organization than to just condemn it. But how many of those who complain about the NRA's problems, have ever tried to do anything about it? Granted the NRA doesnt exactly make it easy to complain, but it can be done.
Thats pretty much all I have to say on this. Again, I think if you put four American gun owners in a room and told them they all had to agree on a dozen things by noon or be deprived of oxygen...they would all probably be dead by 1pm. I include myself in that criticism.
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Here's the petition. in case you missed it...
http://chng.it/4DHyCCZXhh
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
The Texas bankruptcy judge ruled AGAINST the NRA and sided with the NY State AG. They are saying the bankruptcy is made up and a feeble attempt to evade the State of NY. This means the state might kick out LaPierre and install a neutral (yea, right) trustee to run the NRA until they can clean house. And, I would imagine there will possibly be some prosecutions to go along with that, once a trustee starts digging around in the file cabinets.
Read it all here...
https://thereload.com/nra-bankruptcy-dismissed/
:o
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Things get worse for Wayne LaPierre...
https://thereload.com/experts-paint-grim-picture-for-nra-after-bankruptcy-gamble-goes-bust/
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I'm very disappointed. Just renewed my membership for another 2 years, but now I think this money will pay for lawyers expenses to save LaPierre's ass. Not for gun rights.
Glad that I became Life Member of SAF last year, their lawsuits, at least, care about our rights.
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“If it comes to choosing between dissolution and ditching LaPierre, perhaps the NRA will choose the latter,” Bruckner said.
The problem is WLP is the NRA. He's consolidated the power and owns the Board. He will tear down the organization to save his own posterior. The only hope is a truly neutral court-appointed trustee to dismiss the entire Board and re-write the by-laws according to 501 (c) best practices.
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As much as it pains me to agree, WLP did have a huge hand in the rise and fall of the NRA. He was a great powerhouse for the organization for years, but like some do, fell in love with himself and the camera. The only way the NRA will regain the prestige and respect it had is a complete overhaul of the upper management, which is unlikely at this time. I also urge people to join local grass roots groups, such as I am a member of the Arizona Citizens Defense League, a great outfit with a long track record of wins.
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The only hope is a truly neutral court-appointed trustee to dismiss the entire Board and re-write the by-laws according to 501(c) best practices.
Agreed. Things are not looking good when you hope a court-appointed trustee takes over.
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As much as it pains me to agree, WLP did have a huge hand in the rise and fall of the NRA. He was a great powerhouse for the organization for years, but like some do, fell in love with himself and the camera. The only way the NRA will regain the prestige and respect it had is a complete overhaul of the upper management, which is unlikely at this time. I also urge people to join local grass roots groups, such as I am a member of the Arizona Citizens Defense League, a great outfit with a long track record of wins.
+1 on the CDL
They are a big reason AZ has restored are rights. Their tools are keeping everyone in the loop on what legislators are trying to strip and what they are doing to bolster rights.
Cheers,
Toby
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The problems at the NRA is another good reason to support some other pro-gun organizations.
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Been a life member since the 70's (I think), NRA is still the best known, and most potent for us IF the
organization is cleaned out as mentioned numerous times above. 8)
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WLP was re-elected unanimously as CEO earlier this month. Nothing will change. He will go down with the ship unless there is a court-ordered re-structuring.
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Maybe WLP is another fake 2A’er who’s there to purposely ruin the NRA…. :o Maybe another tin foil hat, maybe not.
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Maybe WLP is another fake 2A’er who’s there to purposely ruin the NRA…. :o Maybe another tin foil hat, maybe not.
Are you saying WLP is to the NRA, as Putin is to the Russian Federation ??
I'm Shocked ! :o
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I've been a member of the NRA for 52 years and am currently an Endowment member. They will never get another single penny from me as long as WLP holds any level of office in the organization. I know many, many competitive shooters who hold similar opinions.
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There also are other organizations that lobby in favor of gun rights:
Gun Owners of America www.gunowners.org
Virginia Citizens Defense Leage VCDL - www.vcdl.org
American Suppressor Association www.americansuppressorassociation.com
If you know of others, I'd be interested to hear about them.
Thanks!
Second Amendment Foundation (SAF)
Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC)
Iowa Firearms Coalition (IFC)
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I've been a member of the NRA for 52 years and am currently an Endowment member. They will never get another single penny from me as long as WLP holds any level of office in the organization. I know many, many competitive shooters who hold similar opinions.
I was a member for a couple of years and dropped out but was feeling guilty and was thinking of going back, but when I see individuals like you who have been with the NRA way more years than I say this ??? I take note. Who/What organization is the one to support for 2nd amendment issues??
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I'm a life member of the NRA but haven't donated money to them for decades. As long as WLP is there they won't get any money from me.
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I only send them money to keep my certs up-to-date.
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I'm a life member of the NRA but haven't donated money to them for decades. As long as WLP is there they won't get any money from me.
But WLP needs a new bespoke suit!