The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Hunting => Topic started by: Philintheblanks on May 25, 2023, 05:29:37 PM
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I finally found two loads which shoot accurately in my Henry .44 magnum rifle. But, never having hunted hogs, I'm struggling to choose between the two bullets I have on hand. Both are 240 gn. I have Zero jacketed soft points and Missouri coated swc. Of these two, which would you choose, assuming the same velocity. I'd like to use a heavier bullet (300 gn would be ideal) but they simply won't feed and chamber in the rifle. I do have a 300 gn load but only shoot it in my Super Redhawk. I'm not good enough with a handgun to be confident of an ethical kill, otherwise I'd go with that.
I'll appreciate any feedback!
Phil
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Hollow points are supposed to expand and limit penetration by "growing" larger in diameter as they travel through the target/media.
Hard cast semi-wadcutters are supposed to penetrate deeply with little bullet deformation.
How deep does your bullet need to go to get the job done?
How much will the increase in velocity from the rifle affect the hollow point expansion? Penetration?
If no one else has experience with those two bullets, from a rifle length barrel, you might look up some you tube videos to see if someone has done some penetration/expansion testing of the same (or similar) bullets.
I can tell you, using bundles of water soaked catalogs/magazines tied together with bailing twine, a 240 grain lead semi wadcutter (Winchester brand) will penetrate way more than a 240 grain Remington hollow point from a Super Blackhawk revolver (7.5" barrel). That's the only soft media testing I ever did. Everything else was cars, apllances, rocks, etc. with a .44 magnum.
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Thanks for your reply! I should have clarified...the Zero bullets are not hollow point. They are flat nose soft point. But I expect they will expand to a certain degree. The swc bullets are18 BHN hardcast and will likely penetrate more at the expense of expansion. That's my conundrum: expansion vs. penetration. Hogs seem to be in a category of their own...
Neither of these are not likely the optimal choices, but they are what I have at this time. I've watched so many videos and read so many opinions, ost of which contradict each other, that I decided to turn to the only forum I trust. That's why I appreciate your input. Constructive rather than condescending.
Phil
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I had a 44 mag rifle a few years ago, but sold it. I only killed one hog with it. But strictly speaking, soft points are probably the best thing for the purpose. If you are into cast bullet loading, and know what you're doing, Ive heard good things about cast lead bullets. Otherwise, soft points all the way- for my two cents.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fWuJoSDUp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKnmMN167PA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QZG07npn4
Maybe some helpful info.
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Hard cast semi-wadcutters are supposed to penetrate deeply with little bullet deformation.
SWC main purpose is to make a neat hole in paper targets for maximum scoring. The "semi-" is because they are not pure Wad Cutters; their conical tip helps with feeding, as opposed to a revolver which has no feed issues.
You want something with a hollow point. Your other 2 bullets will only expand if they hit bone. A HP expands by 'hydraulic jacking'. That is, the liquid in the soft tissue forces the speeding bullet tip to expand. Thus, faster bullets will expand faster/better.
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Take a look at Hornady’s XTP. One year I killed 3 deer using my in my 5” barreled 629. Worked great. I’ve read a lot of good comments about them.
Also, lots of people swears by a heavy hardcast swc.
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I second the hornady XTP, I have taken a deer and a heavy hog with the 240 grain XTP. I don't think hogs are as tough as most people are lead to believe. just hit em right..
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My understanding of hog physiology, such as it is, is that their skin is tougher than a deer, for instance. This seems to indicate that hollow points would expand too soon and lose too much velocity to insure an ethical kill. Hogs also have a sort of 'cartilage shield" surrounding some of the vital organs, I'm not exactly sure of how that works, but it suggests that penetration could be more important than expansion. Shot placement is the most important factor, in any case.
I'm right around 1600 fps with both loads. They group about equally at 100 yds which is the maximum distance I expect to shoot. 50-75 yds would be ideal but that would require negotiations with the hog in question ahead of time.
I'm leaning in favor the jsp bullet. I think I can expect some expansion from the broad lead meplat while, hopefully retaning enough velocity to penetrate the hog's biological barriers. It may be some months before I have the opportunity to hunt.
Thank you all for input!
Phil
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Okay two more cents. I hunt pigs a lot, in my experience the best shot is a quartering away head shot with point of aim being behind the ear. The gristle plate youre talking about is a feature found in mature boars (male), Ive never seen it stop a bullet but that isnt the best place to be placing a shot to begin with. A pig's vital area is actually a bit more forward than a deer, so your dealing with possible bullet deflection off a legbone. So- just my opinion, but head shots have served me better. Have I ever had one fail? Yes. Im sure the pig died later but ran far enough off that I never found it. It was a frontal shot, the hog simply wouldnt cooperate.
That being said, I'll share this with you. A man I know shot a medium sized hog several times with his 30-30 and it was still moving. It was in a trap (not a box trap, a lot trap about ten yards square) he was shooting across a creek, perhaps 30 yards away. His theory was that some of his bullets must have deflected on the hog panels that trap was made from. My theory was that he simply missed. When we got the beast back across the creek- which was no small task I might add, we found we were both wrong. He had hit the thing multiple times, just not where it would do much good.
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Okay two more cents. I hunt pigs a lot, in my experience the best shot is a quartering away head shot with point of aim being behind the ear. The gristle plate youre talking about is a feature found in mature boars (male), Ive never seen it stop a bullet but that isnt the best place to be placing a shot to begin with. A pig's vital area is actually a bit more forward than a deer, so your dealing with possible bullet deflection off a legbone. So- just my opinion, but head shots have served me better. Have I ever had one fail? Yes. Im sure the pig died later but ran far enough off that I never found it. It was a frontal shot, the hog simply wouldnt cooperate.
That being said, I'll share this with you. A man I know shot a medium sized hog several times with his 30-30 and it was still moving. It was in a trap (not a box trap, a lot trap about ten yards square) he was shooting across a creek, perhaps 30 yards away. His theory was that some of his bullets must have deflected on the hog panels that trap was made from. My theory was that he simply missed. When we got the beast back across the creek- which was no small task I might add, we found we were both wrong. He had hit the thing multiple times, just not where it would do much good.
Sage advice here.
Wadcutters if you have pinpoint precision to place your bullets where they need to go, as they're better at penetrating intermediate barriers of body or environs before striking vitals.
Soft points otherwise.
This is of course contingent on the size of hog you're hunting.
That said, at 240gr, you should be relatively set provided you don't hit a structural bone in the process (i.e., a legbone or a shoulder, not a rib bone)...
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I’m tuning my Father in Law’s savage 10 .300 WM With a heavy barrel, Burris XTR ii, and a JP brake.
So far I’m just getting the scope dialed and making brass with 150gr bullets.
It’s ALL about the brake and a heavy gun. If you don’t have an aggressive brake on a not light rifle, you’re going to hate it.
If you’ve got to get to a mile or you need power for elk/moose, .300 for the win. Otherwise 240 is a much better option.
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My standard load for My 44 mag Ruger Redhawk is a 240gr XTP on top of 24.5gr of H110 (same as W296). I’ve gone as low as 23gr, but have found the best accuracy at either 24 or 24.5Gr.
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of the 2 bullets I would try the Missouri coated first for better penetration
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My standard load for My 44 mag Ruger Redhawk is a 240gr XTP on top of 24.5gr of H110 (same as W296). I’ve gone as low as 23gr, but have found the best accuracy at either 24 or 24.5Gr.
I just loaded 100 240gr XTP over 24 gr of H110, my 8 inch raging bull loves this load...
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Not sure if us feral hogs are as "tough" as european wild boars but if yes i would be careful with hollow points in .44mag
They might stuck before getting into vitals and in optimum case you want an exit woubd for quick collapse of the lung and blood stream .
If in .44 mag i would go with sp , not jhp and make sure to do it from an elevated stand if the hog runs and tries to charge you .
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We hog hunt in Texas 2-3 times a year for 3 days each. usually 5-7 of us per hunt and been doing it for about 12 years. Most of us now shoot 300 grain .458 S0com Underwood ballistic tip 1900 FPS 2400 ftlbs energy or 450 Bushmaster 250 grain FTX 2200 FPS and 2700 ftlbs of energy at 100 yards and less and pretty much always head shoot them. We generally have a dead hog right there.
Have not had such impressive results with 223 / 556 1250 ftlbs, 300 BO 1400 ftlbs and 350 legend 1800 ftlbs
Your .44 is going to have around 800-900 ftlbs so a well placed brain shot might be best
(https://i.imgur.com/aFpRv8ll.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ToexGW3l.jpg)
Longer range shots 200-400 are generally with 6.5 creedmoor or 300 win mag
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We hog hunt in Texas 2-3 times a year for 3 days each. usually 5-7 of us per hunt and been doing it for about 12 years. Most of us now shoot 300 grain .458 S0com Underwood ballistic tip 1900 FPS 2400 ftlbs energy or 450 Bushmaster 250 grain FTX 2200 FPS and 2700 ftlbs of energy at 100 yards and less and pretty much always head shoot them. We generally have a dead hog right there.
Have not had such impressive results with 223 / 556 1250 ft-lbs, 300 BO 1400 ft-lbs and 350 legend 1800 ft-lbs
Your .44 is going to have around 800-900 ft-lbs so a well placed brain shot might be best.
Longer range shots 200-400 are generally with 6.5 Creedmoor or 300 win mag
Yes . I hunt mostly for wild boar at night as pest control ( have a permission for a thermal scope ) and we do it boring - with modern bolt action rifles in the .308 / 3006 / 8x57 class .
As a backup , should one charge me at night , i hope for luck with my p226 in 9mm ( and hard bullets , no jhp ) or a taurus raging bull in .44mag .
A wild boar is no polar bear of course but i saw wild boars going Rambo attack mode after a good hit from a .308 before they dropped seconds later, that's why i recommended to be careful hunting them with a revolver cartridge , even a very powerful one like the .44mag .
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I hunt hogs on a regular basis. Anything suitable for deer is suitable for hogs, though I would add that my opinion of what is suitable for deer doesn't include some chamberings that other people seem to like. Wild Hogs do require different shot placement than deer, and I prefer head shots.
They don't seem to stand still as long as deer do, or maybe the hogs near me are just hyper.
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I hunt hogs on a regular basis. Anything suitable for deer is suitable for hogs, though I would add that my opinion of what is suitable for deer doesn't include some chamberings that other people seem to like. Wild Hogs do require different shot placement than deer, and I prefer head shots.
They don't seem to stand still as long as deer do, or maybe the hogs near me are just hyper.
So you're German? Y'all's manicured/highly managed forests and pushed wild hog/boar hunts are EXTREMELY different from the states... From vids I've seen, I'd place it more in the realm of duck hunting than standard red blooded game hunting I'm used to in the states...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ob0fgc0I7A
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I hunt hogs on a regular basis. Anything suitable for deer is suitable for hogs, though I would add that my opinion of what is suitable for deer doesn't include some chamberings that other people seem to like. Wild Hogs do require different shot placement than deer, and I prefer head shots.
They don't seem to stand still as long as deer do, or maybe the hogs near me are just hyper.
So you're German? Y'all's manicured/highly managed forests and pushed wild hog/boar hunts are EXTREMELY different from the states... From vids I've seen, I'd place it more in the realm of duck hunting than standard red blooded game hunting I'm used to in the states...
Uh, I think the other poster may be German....I'm not.
Regarding Wild Boar/Feral Hogs- and whether there is a difference between the two. I am of the opinion that there is in fact a difference, though I've seen spirited debate on other forums. Generally here in Texas, most hunters seem to agree that there are "Russians", Feral Hogs and the results of the two mixing. The only wildlife biologist I have ever talked to did agree this is the case. My understanding is the "Russians" or wild boar were imports for sport hunting- maybe Arkansas way, and Feral Hogs are simply farm pig stock.
I've seen the black, usually ridge-backed swine that the head makes up at least a quarter of the overall length, and the multi-colored variety with the typical face and body structure, all running together. We have them in my area in herds of a dozen or so, up to several dozen or more. The farmers and ranchers hate them, but I love hunting them.
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I hunt hogs on a regular basis. Anything suitable for deer is suitable for hogs, though I would add that my opinion of what is suitable for deer doesn't include some chamberings that other people seem to like. Wild Hogs do require different shot placement than deer, and I prefer head shots.
They don't seem to stand still as long as deer do, or maybe the hogs near me are just hyper.
So you're German? Y'all's manicured/highly managed forests and pushed wild hog/boar hunts are EXTREMELY different from the states... From vids I've seen, I'd place it more in the realm of duck hunting than standard red blooded game hunting I'm used to in the states...
Uh, I think the other poster may be German....I'm not.
Regarding Wild Boar/Feral Hogs- and whether there is a difference between the two. I am of the opinion that there is in fact a difference, though I've seen spirited debate on other forums. Generally here in Texas, most hunters seem to agree that there are "Russians", Feral Hogs and the results of the two mixing. The only wildlife biologist I have ever talked to did agree this is the case. My understanding is the "Russians" or wild boar were imports for sport hunting- maybe Arkansas way, and Feral Hogs are simply farm pig stock.
I've seen the black, usually ridge-backed swine that the head makes up at least a quarter of the overall length, and the multi-colored variety with the typical face and body structure, all running together. We have them in my area in herds of a dozen or so, up to several dozen or more. The farmers and ranchers hate them, but I love hunting them.
That quote was apparently a misfire... And yes, intended for aerobat.
Regardless to your reply, my understanding is that there were wild pigs from Spanish stock and later domestic getaways, and then Russian wild boar that were introduced later for hunting purposes... I look at it a bit like a domesticated dog vs. a wolf -- something like husky w/ a fair bit of wolf dna vs. wolf might be a better comparison (us wild pigs vs proper russian boars) than just random wild domestic dogs. And my understanding is that both wolves and domestic dogs are considered subspecies the same species, and can interbreed fertile offspring just like domestic pigs and russian wild boars are/can also do.
(And this discussion is also confused in that "boar" is an intact male hog in farmer parlance, so there's all sorts of potential confusion if you don't specifically clarify...)
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Yep. I was present once when a couple of guys spent over an hour debating the things mountain lions were called. It was hilarious. I finally talked them into going to bed by reminding them that not a lot of deer got killed from the bedroll.
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That quote was apparently a misfire... And yes, intended for aerobat.
Regardless to your reply, my understanding is that there were wild pigs from Spanish stock and later domestic getaways, and then Russian wild boar that were introduced later for hunting purposes... I look at it a bit like a domesticated dog vs. a wolf -- something like husky w/ a fair bit of wolf dna vs. wolf might be a better comparison (us wild pigs vs proper russian boars) than just random wild domestic dogs. And my understanding is that both wolves and domestic dogs are considered subspecies the same species, and can interbreed fertile offspring just like domestic pigs and russian wild boars are/can also do.
(And this discussion is also confused in that "boar" is an intact male hog in farmer parlance, so there's all sorts of potential confusion if you don't specifically clarify...)
Hi ! Yes , i,m german . We do not have feral hogs , just wild boar .
Afaik the difference between the two : a wild boar is a true wild swine while a feral hog is a wildered but originally domestic swine .
Wild boar is gender neutral . In german a male is a 'keiler' while a female a 'bache' .
Hunting in germany is highly regulated and ( as well the gun laws ) subject to very strict laws .
You e.g are allowed to hunt wild boar with a minimum calibre of 6.5mm and a impact energy ( not muzzle energy ) of ar least 2000 joules . So e.g hunting them with a .223 / .243 would not be legal while i,m sure effective . Any handgun calibre only for self defense against charging animals so finally i do not have first hand experience how effective a .44mag would be . I can tell that a 9mm fmj on an immobilized / wounded wild boar in the head
Is deadly .
The hunt is usually not like in the video . Its from an elevated stand at night since wild boar here is night active . Germany is pretty densly populated so you always must expect people walking in the woods , and just empty a magazine into a dense wood area without knowing whats behind the hog is a big no no .
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Hi ! Yes , i,m german . We do not have feral hogs , just wild boar .
Afaik the difference between the two : a wild boar is a true wild swine while a feral hog is a wildered but originally domestic swine .
Wild boar is gender neutral . In german a male is a 'keiler' while a female a 'bache' .
Hunting in germany is highly regulated and ( as well the gun laws ) subject to very strict laws .
You e.g are allowed to hunt wild boar with a minimum calibre of 6.5mm and a impact energy ( not muzzle energy ) of ar least 2000 joules . So e.g hunting them with a .223 / .243 would not be legal while i,m sure effective . Any handgun calibre only for self defense against charging animals so finally i do not have first hand experience how effective a .44mag would be . I can tell that a 9mm fmj on an immobilized / wounded wild boar in the head
Is deadly .
The hunt is usually not like in the video . Its from an elevated stand at night since wild boar here is night active . Germany is pretty densly populated so you always must expect people walking in the woods , and just empty a magazine into a dense wood area without knowing whats behind the hog is a big no no .
Thank you for your insights -- all, or nearly so, of the German wild boar hunting vids I've seen are from driven hunts like I shared... In the US, there are driven deer hunts, which are generally considered less sporting than stalking or sitting in a stand/blind NOT on a bait/feed station. Generally, I'd say the sporting in the US is stalking>stand/blind on game trails and/or food plots>driven hunts>feed/bait stations... And while I understand the increased marksmanship requirements of driven hunts, most of those who end up taking shots here pay the highest dollar and categorically are not the best marksmen, which leads to a lot of wounded animals and miles long blood trails, including in shotgun-only states (i.e., primarily shooting sabot slugs)...
To the point -- what's your thoughts on the driven hunts we've been exposed to in the US? Are they sporting, or not? And are they just showmanship vs. how hunts are typically conducted in your AO?
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To the point -- what's your thoughts on the driven hunts we've been exposed to in the US? Are they sporting, or not? And are they just showmanship vs. how hunts are typically conducted in your AO?
We perform driven hunts but barely on wild boar and surely not 'john wayne' style like in the video , but it might differ from reservee to reservee .
They are done at the end of the year since every reservee has a yearly harvesting goal for e g deer ( mandated by hunting authority ) and if you have not still reached it a driven hunt is organized to push the quote .
It all depends on the people who participate and safety should always be priority . I participated in many and from my experience hunters who tend to be brain lazy but trigger happy are not allowed .
The hazards for external walkers are high and the risk of just wounding a fleeing animal too . Nobody is able to perform a clean shot on a highly fleeing animal free hand out of 100 yrads .
If its done ethical and clean it might be a great adventure . Ethical means you need to wait until the wild calms down and you can perform a clean shot . If not possible keep you finger out of the trigger guard .
I,m lucky to be in a hunting reservee where its not about the highest dollar who is invited but about your reputation of being reasonable .
All in all i personally prefer individual hunting .