The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => Ammunition, questions, and handloading techniques => Topic started by: LarryBoy on March 23, 2017, 08:35:09 PM
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Haven't been able to locate Federal primers until today. Are they really worth $10 a case more than Winchester? I have about 1500 rounds under my belt now in my young reloading career and haven't had any issues with the Winchester. Also should I be storing my powder and primers inside the house as the heat is coming here in Arizona and my garage will soon be an oven.
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Federal primers are good, but so are the others. My first choice in almost all my loading is Federal, with MagTech second. Then comes Winchester, S&B, Remington and CCI. I refuse to buy anything made in Russia, since I grew up in the 1950's, when they were going to incinerate us off the face of the earth and bury us (Nikita Khrushchev).
They should be stored where it's cool and dry for the longest shelf life, as well as powder. I'm fortunate in that I live where it very seldom gets above about 75 degrees F in the summer, and winters are pretty mild, but wet. I'm still using primers that I bought in the 1970's, and have yet to have one fail to fire, but they've been stored under just about ideal conditions for as long as I've owned them. The same with powders that I bought back then. I'm still working on a 12 pound metal keg of SR4756 from the same period.
Hope this helps.
Fred
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Federal primers can be a tremendous asset if you have a reduced force hammer spring installed in your gun. The reason the price is higher is that most all competitive shooters prefer them for that fact.
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If WIN primers are working well with your loads, there is no reason to change.
The FED primers still contain a minute amount of Nitro Glycerin that all the others no longer use. Federal's primer compound and a fairly soft primer cup are what makes them fire with relatively light hits.
I use an 8# hammer spring in my Shadow. It comes stock in other model versions with a 20# hammer spring.
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Would it be safe to assume then that I could run a 11.5# hammer spring and still be ok with Winchester primers?
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I run a 11.5 hammer spring, extended firing pin and have no issues setting off s&b, wsp, fed, cci and magtech.
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Would it be safe to assume then that I could run a 11.5# hammer spring and still be ok with Winchester primers?
Because of how you phrased your question, no.
Every pistol is different. For the price of a spring you can test yours to see if it likes WIN primers. If it doesn't, then switch back to your other spring.
I did this with mine and WIN primers specifically. It failed to fire one or two times "per mag". This is with the lighter spring.
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Are they really worth $10 a case more than Winchester?
Nope. Unless you are running a 7.5# mainspring, definitely no.
Winchester is actually my preference.
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To me they are. I had like 5% failure to fire on first hit with Winchester. Switched to Federal and every single one went bang. Even federal small rifles go bang 100% in my gun.
Temperature fluctuations are what kills ammo and powder. I would store them inside, but separately.
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You had a 5% failure rate with Winchester with what set up?
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You had a 5% failure rate with Winchester with what set up?
Cz 75 sp-01 shadow custom from Czc. 11 lb recoil and 13 lb mainspring.
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Federal are hands down my favorite for all applications. If it is 10 dollars more a case no problem. If is 10 more per thousand, I will have to try something else.
IMO opinion it is a must to store your powder and primers in a cool dry area using original packaging.
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You had a 5% failure rate with Winchester with what set up?
Cz 75 sp-01 shadow custom from Czc. 11 lb recoil and 13 lb mainspring.
You might have something else going on. I'm 100% on Winchester with a 11.5# mainspring. Before that, with a 13# mainspring, I was 100% on every brand I tried except for a couple early CCI primers that weren't fully seated and detonated on the second strike.
I suspect you don't need Federal for 100%. I suspect you have something else going on, and the softness of Federal is basically a workaround.
The issue could be your firing pin channel -- dirty, greasy, or a burr. Could be that you aren't fully seating primers. Could be that you need a weaker firing pin spring or a longer/different/tip-modified firing pin.
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Pin channel was clean, no burrs that I could get a qtip to stick on.
One thing that did change between Winchester and federal primers. Is I started to load my own ammo rather than have a friend load them for me.
All the Winchester primers fired on the second pull of the trigger tho. So I'm considering it's due to not seating primers fully.
At 33$/1k I'll continue to use just federal primers. Cheap insurance
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So I'm considering it's due to not seating primers fully.
That is exactly what it sounds like. ;)
At 33$/1k I'll continue to use just federal primers. Cheap insurance
Right. They're definitely top notch, and $33/1k is decent enough. I keep Federal and Winchester on hand for competition. For practice, I shoot whatever I can get cheap in bulk. The last couple purchases have been S&B, which need extra attention when seating.
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I picked up 1000 Federal today for $35.50. I will order a couple different main springs and do some testing, I'm currently running a 13#. Another good reason to throw more lead down range!
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I use WSP and a 13# hammer spring. The WSP are $123 per 5K so at that price I will suffer a 13# spring, But I have not tried the 11.5# spring so it might work as well.
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While I've long believed Federal small pistol primers are the only primers to use, I haven't been able to find them in almost a year. So, I make-do with Winchester small pistol primers. All three of my CZs have 11? pound springs and extended firing pins from CGW. In more than 10K of reloads with the WSP I have not had a single problem. I do trust them.
But, I do hope the Federal small pistol primers will come back some day.
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Thanks dlidster, I may give the 11.5# spring a try.
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When my dealer friend received his shipment of 500,000 Federal SP primers last year I re-stocked. I think I'm down to about 50,000 of them right now, plus another 20,000 Federal LP primers. That doesn't count the S&B, MagTech and Winchester primers I keep in stock, but I do a lot of loading and shooting. I'm also holding 10,000 SP and 10,000 LP Federal primers for a friend of mine from out of state who will be visiting this summer, and can't find them where he lives. Plus, we don't have any sales tax......
The bottom line is to keep as much in stock as you can afford. I try to keep at least a four year supply on hand at all times, especially primers. Without them, powder is just fertilizer and bullets are just fishing weights......... When you find them, buy them.
Hope this helps.
Fred
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The bottom line is to keep as much in stock as you can afford. I try to keep at least a four year supply on hand at all times, especially primers. Without them, powder is just fertilizer and bullets are just fishing weights......... When you find them, buy them.
+1 Primers are the only component you can't easily make at home.
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While I've long believed Federal small pistol primers are the only primers to use, I haven't been able to find them in almost a year. So, I make-do with Winchester small pistol primers. All three of my CZs have 11? pound springs and extended firing pins from CGW. In more than 10K of reloads with the WSP I have not had a single problem. I do trust them.
But, I do hope the Federal small pistol primers will come back some day.
I've found them online, ordered and received them twice over the last year.
Just keep Google searching periodically and you'll find them from popular sources. They may be pricey, but ....
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Still not commonly available !
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Wow, I almost got aroused for a minute until I realized this was an old thread.
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They're now in stock at Scheel's in Des Moines, IA. I purchased 4,000 last week. More remain on the shelves and in the stock room.
FWIW, during the Federal SPP drought I used many thousands of Winchester SPPs in my CZs that have 11? pound hammer springs and in my Berettas that have 13 pound springs and both Elite and Elite II hammers. I have had no (absolutely none) light strikes. So, should the Federals disappear again sometime in the future, I'm not going to worry about it. The Winchester SPPs are fine and have always been available in quantities in all the retail stores I frequent.
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Yep, the Winchesters have run perfectly in all my light sprung CZ's.
Only Federals will run reliably in my S&W revolver I shoot IDPA and Icore with.