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CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols, the new wave => Topic started by: hANNAbONE on March 04, 2018, 04:41:29 PM

Title: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: hANNAbONE on March 04, 2018, 04:41:29 PM
It's almost sacrilege speaking about an HK on this forum. I really don't know anything about them except I

finally held one yesterday and really like it.

Question : anybody moved from the smaller VP9sk to the P10??

If so why / why not..?

I await choo....
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: cremaley on March 04, 2018, 05:20:04 PM
I did own an HK VP9 and while it is a very nice gun I wouldn't trade my P-10 for it. My P-10 has a better trigger and is definitely more accurate at least for me. It also shoots flatter making follow up shots much easier. I'm not saying that the HP VP9 is not a great gun what I am saying is for me the CZ P-10C is better. So my advise is take two aspirins and stick with the P-10.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 04, 2018, 05:25:01 PM
I am personally not a fan of subcompacts. For the size of the gun, the capacity always leaves me wanting.  Even more so when you have finger extensions on the mags.

I carried an HK VP9 for a little over a year. If I had that experiment to do over I would have chosen the CZP-10C, without question.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 04, 2018, 05:27:16 PM
Also, just to add: don’t underestimate the learning/comfort curve when it comes to using a paddle mag release when you are used to a thumb button.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: briang2ad on March 04, 2018, 08:27:39 PM
Also, just to add: don’t underestimate the learning/comfort curve when it comes to using a paddle mag release when you are used to a thumb button.

Roger that. They take about a few minutes to learn, and are ambi, easier to reach, and you keep your hand fixed, no shifting.  Not bad.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: fflmike on March 04, 2018, 08:48:04 PM
I had a VP9 and a P30.  With large fingers they rub blisters in no time with the triggers.  JMHO and Blisters, LOL
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 04, 2018, 09:10:33 PM
Also, just to add: don’t underestimate the learning/comfort curve when it comes to using a paddle mag release when you are used to a thumb button.

Roger that. They take about a few minutes to learn, and are ambi, easier to reach, and you keep your hand fixed, no shifting.  Not bad.

Thee is a quite a difference between learned and ingrained. Also, having to use one’s trigger finger rather than thumb can make for a significant curve to get back to baseline.

Just saying it bears consideration.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: Mercs on March 05, 2018, 12:52:05 AM
Also, just to add: don’t underestimate the learning/comfort curve when it comes to using a paddle mag release when you are used to a thumb button.

Roger that. They take about a few minutes to learn, and are ambi, easier to reach, and you keep your hand fixed, no shifting.  Not bad.

Thee is a quite a difference between learned and ingrained. Also, having to use one’s trigger finger rather than thumb can make for a significant curve to get back to baseline.

Just saying it bears consideration.
I use my middle finger. You don’t have to use your trigger finger. It’s really fast, and requires no change in grip


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: m1a_scoutguy on March 05, 2018, 01:21:10 AM
Also, just to add: don’t underestimate the learning/comfort curve when it comes to using a paddle mag release when you are used to a thumb button.

Roger that. They take about a few minutes to learn, and are ambi, easier to reach, and you keep your hand fixed, no shifting.  Not bad.

Thee is a quite a difference between learned and ingrained. Also, having to use one’s trigger finger rather than thumb can make for a significant curve to get back to baseline.

Just saying it bears consideration.

The HK VP9 is a great gun,,although I never owned a SK version,and as stated above I'm not much of a fan of compact pistols,even though I have a P01 coming but I have shot them before and the grip is much better in my hands then most real compact guns. Anyways I WISH ALL guns had the paddle mag release like the HK,,in my eyes there is none better !!! I went back and forth between my HK and my CZs with 0 issues. I just really liked it. Anyways that's the beauty of it all if ya like one and want one and it feels good in your hand,,buy the darn thing !!! In the end though I just sold my VP9 last week and now I'm down to one 1911 a couple revolvers that were my Dads and 3 CZs with a PO1 on the way !! Not saying I won't even have a Striker gun again but just don't see the need for one in my future anytime soon ! Soooo,,buy what ya like/want,,be happy !!  ;)
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 05, 2018, 05:40:00 AM
Also, just to add: don’t underestimate the learning/comfort curve when it comes to using a paddle mag release when you are used to a thumb button.

Roger that. They take about a few minutes to learn, and are ambi, easier to reach, and you keep your hand fixed, no shifting.  Not bad.

Thee is a quite a difference between learned and ingrained. Also, having to use one’s trigger finger rather than thumb can make for a significant curve to get back to baseline.

Just saying it bears consideration.
I use my middle finger. You don’t have to use your trigger finger. It’s really fast, and requires no change in grip

I liked that it didn’t require me to break my grip (regardless of which finger was used) but, for me, it was a challenge to overcome years of using a different technique.

I like having the same manual of arms across any gun I may routinely carry. In the end I felt like i needed to go 100% one way or the other and after a year of use I just wasn’t sold on the HK way.

There were other factors too. I wanted guns I felt comfortable gunsmithing myself, etc.

I’m certainly not suggesting the paddle mag releases are some giant hurdle - just that for many it does take some adjustment and plenty of reps to get on par with where they are with a button release.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: Walt Sherrill on March 05, 2018, 08:30:42 AM
Quote
It also shoots flatter making follow up shots much easier.

Given the same round and comparable barrel lengths (barrel length will affect velocity, and how far the bullet travels for a set period of time), I don't see how one gun can shoot "flatter" than another.   Am I missing something, or is there another variable I'm over-looking? 

Re: H&K VP9sk...
 
I traded into an H&K VP9sk, and find it a fine-shooting gun.   (It came to me with two 10-round mags and a 15-round Xtech full-size mag, for which I  bought a magazine sleeve.)    The only thing I don't like about it is the Paddle Mag releases, but I may just need more time with them.  (A lot of folks LOVE the paddle releases!) 

I don't YET have a CZ P10C, but hope to get one in the future, so I can't presently offer comparisons.  I do have a couple FNS-40s (a 40 and a 40L), and several Glocks.  Through trades, I also have a SIG P-320 Compact -- but haven't shot it much, yet.  Thus far, however, I find the 320C and the VP9sk to both be very accurate and user-friendly guns.  The triggers on the FNS-40s are better than some striker-fired guns, and after-market kits are being developed -- so they may end up with top-notch triggers, which would make them very impressive handguns.  (The FNS line of guns, unlike many polymer-framed guns, don't FEEL LIKE polymer in your hand.)
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: IDescribe on March 05, 2018, 09:47:10 AM
Quote
It also shoots flatter making follow up shots much easier.

Given the same round and comparable barrel lengths (barrel length will affect velocity, and how far the bullet travels for a set period of time), I don't see how one gun can shoot "flatter" than another. 

Am I missing something? 

He's not using the term 'flatter shooting' the same way you are.  You're using it in the traditional way, but people on the interwebs have started using the term to refer to the degree to which the muzzle rises or how violently or erratically the pistol moves under recoil, typically with the belief that higher muzzle climb translates to later follow-up shots.

If I remember correctly, the early complaint was that the VP9's recoil spring was a little too strong and was causing nose-diving.  Some early users were clipping coils to compensate for it.  And the pistol ships now with a different RSA anyway, so I don't know if anyone still complains.  I shoot a VP9 competitively with the original RSA, and I have no such issues. 
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 05, 2018, 02:59:43 PM
If I remember correctly, the early complaint was that the VP9's recoil spring was a little too strong and was causing nose-diving.  Some early users were clipping coils to compensate for it.  And the pistol ships now with a different RSA anyway, so I don't know if anyone still complains.

IIRC the gun now ships with the same RSA as the VP40. The early guns shipped with a very light recoil spring which led to some issues with FTRTB
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: GeneticallySwiss on March 05, 2018, 03:06:04 PM
I have an LE version of a VP9 (basically, an extra magazine and tritium 3-dot sights) and my wife has an HK VP9 SK.  No issues with either.  Really nice triggers on both, equivalent IMO, with the P-10C.  And the slide release works on both sides... 8). Just sayin’.


GS
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: IDescribe on March 05, 2018, 03:36:58 PM
IIRC the gun now ships with the same RSA as the VP40. The early guns shipped with a very light recoil spring which led to some issues with FTRTB

It does ship with the same RSA as the VP40, which is the same RSA the VP9 has always shipped with everywhere but the USA.   It's the RSA the pistol was designed with.  I don't remember the weight difference between original VP9 RSA and the current one, but the decision to switch the USA VP9s back to the original was a cost issue -- it's cheaper to produce and maintain inventories of one RSA than it is two.

I also just re-read my post and it looks like I was saying the new RSA was in response to the nose-diving.  That was poor writing.  To be clear, I was commenting on the nose-diving, which was causing some people problems with getting the sights re-aligned, then the RSA comment was just to say I don't know if people are making the same complaints with the new RSA, not that the new RSA was a response to the nose-diving. ;)  People may very well be making the same complaints.  ;)
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 05, 2018, 03:41:56 PM
IIRC the gun now ships with the same RSA as the VP40. The early guns shipped with a very light recoil spring which led to some issues with FTRTB
It does ship with the same RSA as the VP40, which is the same RSA the VP9 has always shipped with everywhere but the USA.   It's the RSA the pistol was designed with.

Wow - I did not know THAT. Interesting choice HK... ;-)
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: Rickytick on March 05, 2018, 06:46:03 PM
I can't speak for the sk model but the regular vp9  is a great pistol and very accurate. The only thing I have done to it was try different grip panels and back straps. My p10c now has talon grips and a flat trigger.  It too is very accuate and I would be hard pressed to say which one is the better shooter. 
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: 2tango2 on March 05, 2018, 09:04:58 PM
Currently have a P30L, P30SK (LEM triggers on both) and a USP Compact

Love the paddle magazine release.  Had a VP9 that sold to fund another gun but would have no qualms getting a VP9SK.

In fact I just realized the shirt I had on




(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180306/046f1d833c47dea55db2bc4af3e399f9.jpg)


 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: Walt Sherrill on March 05, 2018, 09:08:24 PM
Quote
He's not using the term 'flatter shooting' the same way you are.  You're using it in the traditional way, but people on the interwebs have started using the term to refer to the degree to which the muzzle rises or how violently or erratically the pistol moves under recoil, typically with the belief that higher muzzle climb translates to later follow-up shots.

That explains it.  I've not seen anyone describe reduced muzzle flip as "flatter shooting."   

The proper grip makes the erratic or violent movement less of an issue.  (Watch really good semi-auto shooters on YouTube and it is amazing at just how little movement you see,  And they're not always shooting really light loads.)

Because the bullet is out of the barrel before the slide has moved more than maybe 1/10th of an inch, "flip" (in a semi-auto) should have almost no effect on accuracy but it can make getting the gun back on target quickly a little harder/slower.  Revolvers are different, and flip there plays a bigger role in bullet placement.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: pdq5oh on March 06, 2018, 11:00:52 AM
I had a VP9 and a P30SK. Both were nice pistols but I never shot them all that well. The P30 wasn't any more concealable than my PPQ or any other similar size gun. I shot the PPQ much better than either. Now I have a P10 and shoot it better than any of those. I feel it's likely more a byproduct of a better fit in my hand. I'm really quite happy with the P10.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: IDescribe on March 06, 2018, 12:38:23 PM

The proper grip makes the erratic or violent movement less of an issue.  (Watch really good semi-auto shooters on YouTube and it is amazing at just how little movement you see,  And they're not always shooting really light loads.)


^^^THIS^^^

Recoil control is a function of grip and stance.  Too many production shooters wring their hands over minuscule differences in felt recoil while getting smoked by people shooting .40 major.   ::)
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: myczaccount on March 06, 2018, 02:38:49 PM
Recently got a VP9 Tactical and absolutely love it. Currently the only striker fired in my lineup (since I sold my G19 last summer).

I’m now looking eagerly at a P-07
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: wyoung on March 09, 2018, 11:28:24 PM


I had a VP9 and a P30SK. Both were nice pistols but I never shot them all that well. The P30 wasn't any more concealable than my PPQ or any other similar size gun. I shot the PPQ much better than either. Now I have a P10 and shoot it better than any of those. I feel it's likely more a byproduct of a better fit in my hand. I'm really quite happy with the P10.

Good to know. I had a VP9 but let it go to get my P10. The VP9 grip is fine but my P10 fits me fine without all the panels. I was pretty set on getting a PPQ but don't really see the point. My P10 is really accurate.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: pdq5oh on March 10, 2018, 12:39:48 PM
wyoung, for me the P10 points and handles better then the other three pistols I mentioned. I'll shoot some IDPA matches with it this summer and see how that works out.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: mechehog on March 10, 2018, 03:21:04 PM
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 10, 2018, 03:46:10 PM
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties. 
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: pdq5oh on March 11, 2018, 11:11:41 PM
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties.

That was the problem with my PPQ. The trigger became so light over time that I quit carrying it and sold it.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: badwrench on March 13, 2018, 10:56:59 AM
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties.

That was the problem with my PPQ. The trigger became so light over time that I quit carrying it and sold it.

I had the same problem as well with the ppq I had, after a couple thousand rounds, the trigger got noticably lighter, I checked it with a trigger pull gage that the LGS I bought it from had.  When new, it was 4.5 lbs, after a couple thousand rounds it got down to 3lbs,15oz - 4.0 lbs.. way too light for a striker fired pistol with no manual saftey, I quit carrying it, it was a accident waiting to happen. I sold it shortly after checking the trigger.
As far as which is better, the VP9 or the P-10, I've had both, I still have the VP9, the VP9 is overly complicated internally, but, it's also had fewer problems when first released than the P-10 has had, the striker for example dosen't rotate, the slide release, and mag releases were'nt stiff or needed polishing to work acceptably, they were fine out of the box. I'd also say that internally the VP9 is finished better. It's going to be up to the buyer to decide, on the plus side, the P-10 is smaller, and is just as accurate as the VP9, the VP9's grip is almost as long as a g17, and yet holds fewer rounds. All pistols are a compromise, they all give up something to gain another, it's up to the buyer to figure out what compromises they can live with..
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 13, 2018, 11:09:53 AM
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties.

That was the problem with my PPQ. The trigger became so light over time that I quit carrying it and sold it.

I had the same problem as well with the ppq I had, after a couple thousand rounds, the trigger got noticably lighter, I checked it with a trigger pull gage that the LGS I bought it from had.  When new, it was 4.5 lbs, after a couple thousand rounds it got down to 3.9-4.0 lbs.. way too light for a striker fired pistol with no manual saftey, I quit carrying it, it was a accident waiting to happen.
As far as which is better, the VP9 or the P-10, I've had both, I still have the VP9, the VP9 is overly complicated internally, but, it's also had fewer problems when first released than the P-10 has had, the striker for example dosen't rotate, the slide release, and mag releases were'nt stiff or needed polishing to work acceptably, they were fine out of the box. I'd also say that internally the VP9 is finished better. It's going to be up to the buyer to decide, on the plus side, the P-10 is smaller, and is just as accurate as the VP9, the VP9's grip is almost as long as a g17, and yet holds fewer rounds. All pistols are a compromise, they all give up something to gain another, it's up to the buyer to figure out what compromises they can live with..

The internal complexity of the VP9 (and, truthfully, the desire for a hammer-fired gun) is what drove me back to CZ and the P-07. I really enjoy being able to replace parts and do basic maintenance on my guns and, with HK, I just felt like that wasn't going to happen since they do not offer their armorers course and documentation to non-LE/military folks.

David at CGW (@schmeky) has been absolutely phenomenal and encouraging in sharing his wealth of knowledge and expertise with the CZ user base. Really, I see that as pretty unprecedented, at least with regard to the platforms I've had experience with.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: badwrench on March 13, 2018, 02:33:28 PM
Walther PPQ is better than the VP9. In my opinion, it isn't really even close. Just picked up my P10, so not sure where it stands yet.

Better is relative... I did not care for the PPQ at all - the trigger reset, especially.

Plus, I am of the mind now that triggers that light belong on guns with thumb safeties.

That was the problem with my PPQ. The trigger became so light over time that I quit carrying it and sold it.

I had the same problem as well with the ppq I had, after a couple thousand rounds, the trigger got noticably lighter, I checked it with a trigger pull gage that the LGS I bought it from had.  When new, it was 4.5 lbs, after a couple thousand rounds it got down to 3.9-4.0 lbs.. way too light for a striker fired pistol with no manual saftey, I quit carrying it, it was a accident waiting to happen.
As far as which is better, the VP9 or the P-10, I've had both, I still have the VP9, the VP9 is overly complicated internally, but, it's also had fewer problems when first released than the P-10 has had, the striker for example dosen't rotate, the slide release, and mag releases were'nt stiff or needed polishing to work acceptably, they were fine out of the box. I'd also say that internally the VP9 is finished better. It's going to be up to the buyer to decide, on the plus side, the P-10 is smaller, and is just as accurate as the VP9, the VP9's grip is almost as long as a g17, and yet holds fewer rounds. All pistols are a compromise, they all give up something to gain another, it's up to the buyer to figure out what compromises they can live with..

The internal complexity of the VP9 (and, truthfully, the desire for a hammer-fired gun) is what drove me back to CZ and the P-07. I really enjoy being able to replace parts and do basic maintenance on my guns and, with HK, I just felt like that wasn't going to happen since they do not offer their armorers course and documentation to non-LE/military folks.

David at CGW (@schmeky) has been absolutely phenomenal and encouraging in sharing his wealth of knowledge and expertise with the CZ user base. Really, I see that as pretty unprecedented, at least with regard to the platforms I've had experience with.

I have to agree with you, I've never understood how HK could take a simple striker fired pistol and over complicate it to the degree that it uses 56 parts, when Glocks and the P-10 use around 34-36 parts. I guess it's because they're German and over complicating things runs in their blood..My experience with the PPQ, is in part why I went back to hammer fired guns, that and alot of good discussion over at pistol-forum, from some SME's that had alot street experience.. One thing I saw on the 'net really pushed me over to hammer fired pistols, was a dash cam video of a LEO, who after chasing this guy on a motorcycle, pulls the guy over, and accidently shot him with a Glock,  from what I could figure, the stress combined with all the adrenaline of chasing this guy, and he likely had tunnel vision, he probably did'nt notice that he was gripping the pistol, and the trigger, tighter, and tighter until it went off.. had that been a DA/SA pistol, it might not have happened. That vid is also a good lesson for those folks who run light triggers on a striker fired pistol (like a PPQ) that dosen't have a manuel saftey..

I had CGW do some work on my steel framed SP-01compact, it turned out great, one thing I had done was to have the frame,barrel, slide, saftey levers, trigger, and slide stop sent off and black nitrided.. Waaay better than polycoat, and very rust resistant.. the little porker is still on the heavy side, and this is where the polymer framed guns shine, they are much easier to carry.. but it is a sweetheart to shoot. I'm not parting with it anytime soon.
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 13, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
one thing I had done was to have the frame,barrel, slide, saftey levers, trigger, and slide stop sent off and black nitrided.. Waaay better than polycoat, and very rust resistant.

Cool - who did the nitriding? Was it expensive to have done?
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: badwrench on March 13, 2018, 03:07:16 PM
one thing I had done was to have the frame,barrel, slide, saftey levers, trigger, and slide stop sent off and black nitrided.. Waaay better than polycoat, and very rust resistant.

Cool - who did the nitriding? Was it expensive to have done?


H&M Metal processing, www.blacknitride.com It was $200 to do the pistol, I had CGW strip the frame and slide and send the parts to them to nitride, check out their website, there's alot of info there H&M is located in Akron, Ohio (actually, about 45 minutes away from me) they do excellant work,
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: s0nspark on March 13, 2018, 03:19:11 PM

Cool - so that is not too far removed, price-wise, from Cerakoting.

Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: ::.Bitten by the HK VP9sk bug -- is it better than the P10 ??.::
Post by: badwrench on March 13, 2018, 03:37:09 PM

Cool - so that is not too far removed, price-wise, from Cerakoting.

Thanks for the info!

Call them up and talk to them, if you can strip your frame, slide, down and reassemble yourself, it would be worth while to do it yourself.
  If I remember right the trunaround time was fairly quick, like about two weeks. But yeah, this is about a lightyear ahead Electroless Nickel plating, Cerakote, or any other paint on finish.. When David from CGWcalled to let me know that my pistol was done, I asked how the black nitriding turned out, and he was so impressed that they were considering using them  from then on in the future..