The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => CZ Gunsmithing => Topic started by: Underwhere on March 25, 2018, 09:06:54 PM
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I've been on a modification craze lately. I figured I'd try and document how I go about modifying my frame so others can see what's involved, perhaps share some experiences and advice.
The victim: An older Compact 75 that was coated in silver of some sort.
It will go out for hard chrome so I have no issues modifying the frame.
My plans:
1. Flush cut or recess the slide stop lever (Done)
2. Bevel the magwell and round the grip screw tabs (Done)
3. Massage the beavertail so it is more upswept (Done)
4. Remove the square trigger guard (Done)
5. Trigger undercut (Done)
6. Flush cut the guide rod (Done)
7. Melt the nose (Done)
8. Cut a full length mag brake down to compact size (not a frame mod) (Done)
9. Anything else...maybe scallop the mag release. (Done)
I'll bring my slide stop pics in from the other thread.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/a0de65b8bc415104895f32d318c69c1a.jpg)
Completed:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/335b892ed0de1f2ba72293942371bfaf.jpg)
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Flush cut or recess the slide stop lever:
I am not a fan of the huge protrusion on the right side of the gun.
So I beveled the hole in the right side of the gun with a step drill bit..then a curved grinding wheel and then with some 800 grit. Finished by using a buffing wheel with polishing compound.
Then I cut the slide stop with a sanding wheel.
The I gave the slide stop a slight bevel so it would pop under the slide stop spring in the frame.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/f887d27ddc950ec5d7e645eb8d2aaf5a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/7d05e868bcab2df43a8821213f99434f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/495c04565d38204ea1356b5b96180f0a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/632cdf755e98375c6d400387c34b5d60.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/4de76977aeb2ee15042f4fbd6ded5714.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/73a6e1f300f8d81db302a80cb5b60270.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/54ec9ec413192b3ddb9a1ce48e243b9f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/b21df9e2bd54d1da959a20d51d1cde95.jpg)
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Flush cut the guide rod:
I tossed the guide rod into a drill and centered it.
I measured the protrusion from the slide and marked it on the rod.
I put the drill in my vice and spun it.
I hit the end with a sanding drum on my dremel which evenly "cut" until I had removed almost the right amount.
I test fitted and made small adjustments.
Then gave it a very slight bevel with the sanding drum.
Then I tossed it back into the drill and polished the end of the guide rod with 800 and 1500.
Then polished with a buffing wheel and compound. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/1f17907fe9125c82635b8aff2ca30558.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/609d97afe64746fbc4fbf040dd92eba2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/6e6c713d251e7d6e197e2294f4982ec0.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/84f8c59b6b0381f81d54443a1fa73d2a.jpg)
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The beavertail - Underside
I'm going to try and go into more detail here. This is the 3rd one I've done and I tried to take a more methodical approach to this.
The approach:
1. Underside - Find an index point and bring the web of the hand deeper towards the front of the gun
2. Underside - Flatten and upsweep the beavertail to the rear
3. Underside - Round the edges
4. Topside - Find an index point and cut the deepest part of the beavertail
5. Topside - Upsweep the beavertail towards the rear of the gun
6. Underside + topside - Blend and sand.
Tools:
- Dremel tool
- Sanding drum
- A"flapper" sanding bit
First was to cut into the grip area where the web of your hand would go. You need to move this point forward a bit.
I placed the frame upside down in a vice at roughly a 45 degree angle.
I started the sanding drum in the center of the frame and used it as an index point.
I judged progress by looking at the edges of the sanding vs the edges of the frame.
Index point: The the spot directly above the 2 hammer retaining pin holes was my index point.
I only moved the drum from this index point towards the back of the gun. I did this back and forth many many times staying as level as possible.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/1a3b173f87c237a67a43fdba6575a489.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/594c95e74db51165877ef5b3301e60d5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/c5c8e21e79d325776f6b5beace285453.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/1560dc72ae2346bafe131fcfafd73e8d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/e580731ca8e774400e7154009b2e367c.jpg)
I continued until my sanding marks at the index point were about 80% of the height of my sanding drum. (see pic)
This is about as much as I cut into my index point.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/5caaee13b8222fdb69c857e302271885.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/d0704333efc6e09c337b77291ae27f71.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/21a919825621b05bee7b364b6147c7ce.jpg)
Now time to angle the cut to the back of the beavertail.
I cut down the metal to meet the top edge of the beavertail, essentially upsweeping it gently. I made sure to stay level with this. I didn't round anything yet.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/8758939ddf5459b97a0eb4dc9791b1e2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/013097103c87524b8d4a17e7e6026976.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/eb96ef51ece01366158b02e8d540ab35.jpg)
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Next I needed to round it.
I marked sharpie for those who care. This does change the factory lines.
I cut the left and right sides at about a 45 degree angle(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/a6a968d374458a55aa7ea15f305cf7b1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/e344a8dff570e69128d0ce925af9d6c3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/5d80adc910d0c0578702df553644a01f.jpg)
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The I delicately rounded the top with the sides and the blended into the frame creating a new line for the beavertail
This concludes the rough cut of the bottom. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/1e9d0b6ec1f507688419ba68ee606598.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/48cc30f4e002748c33321d1caf267679.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/0a5a61251aa1ca181582679fe81ecdac.jpg)
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The beavertail - Topside
Next comes the top.
I did this only to give the appearance of it being upswept. It doesn't actually affect the grip at all.
I again chose an index point directly behind the squared hammer opening.
Instead if moving the drum from front to back of the gun this time I moved it from left right of the frame. Keeping it level.
Once the sanding reached almost the edge of the frame (judging by the sanding marks) I stopped. It's about 1.25mm of edge on both sides.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/7a0ab4e28f59af7402bdb6f4c06bc910.jpg) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/571e70f8d0f2cc81db8a9521b60a0ca2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/b4a8877ccbea6013dcf6f18d5f34c273.jpg)
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From here I started sanding back towards the rear of the gun, stopping when the edges were roughly 1mm all around.
I made sure that the hammer area was lower than the rear tip of the beavertail, giving it an upswept look. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/cfc738247ea9d94f99aea07145a752fb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/dca7dd411e1cd374216731975a1dfc9a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/4694a025ef9d0b249adf061b5b7731c0.jpg)
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I then moved up the frame slightly to smooth out my depression near the hammer area.
I also double checked my upswept angles and brought the sanding all the way to the edge of the frame.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/2fd8c67484850542fcdebfc8c1b21f17.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/c2b9cd26a897d3184829a11e9604ca75.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/41a5e6b5d490660acbccde802f00b203.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/f11a560ee165ad1fa394a073ece42a57.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/1429d13846025baba590f6840a57aa3d.jpg)
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Next I switched over to my "flapper" sanding bit. No idea what it's really called.
This one removes much less material but it will still cut into the metal so I had to be careful with it.
I used gut feel to smooth edges and polish it up a bit both on the bottom and top. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/f2140231106bc49665f8564ab20a96bf.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/cee5607b6b51126727a6c2ce01b4d92b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/91ea2de4ac9a61e42b8852f8df5fcf06.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/c04d3dc2df939f424a77322126199f4d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/5ae663aaeec49e8e6b8d317c7d2af26d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/984a3e5b79aa8056f6e0bf5bf5e527f1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/58c07483f1981ff7a2248d4f1c4047a9.jpg)
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Next I applied some masking tape to the line above where I was working. I outlined the edge in sharpie for illustration purposes.
I cut my 220 sandpaper into 1/4" wide strips about 5 inches long and started to "shoe shine" the radius of the round areas.
The masking tape is there to make sure I don't accidentally hit those areas with my sandpaper.
This part will take a really long time
Continue to do this until the entire radius is smooth and no more scratch marks are visible.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/2a79d6b5457c281bf4b111d5680e0845.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/11cbc0a95bd1951745ef4b3504dcb014.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/5e0a2a92e5480e96f6a2731ec7fb466e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/acc64b3fb48de6224c32e1ce84b6129f.jpg)
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To further illustrate this really tedious process I covered the surface in sharpie and then started to sand. You'll see the center needs to be sanded... So just continue this way for hours until it's smooth.
If you have arthritis in your hands like I do, pre-medicate with Motrin. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/50949933bac0c2a3601571f9388561f2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/33b632de38a17d537fb2b79a678d0edc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/70c34b88b1d93b35547358b829513942.jpg)
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The magwell:
It's too squared off for me. Having a nice funnel without an external magwell would be cool.
I use a small sanding drum and also a cone grinding bit.
I use the outer edge of the frame as a guide to know how far to take the bevel.
I don't want to make the frame "sharp" at the magwell so I leave about 0.5mm of space that is still squared off.
Once done with my rough cut with the sanding drum and cone grinder I manually sand with 220.
I also slightly round the tabs for the grip screws just in case a mag finds its way in there and wants to smack a squared off surface.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/ffd93f7497d1cc08b3b6000f1fdf6299.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/a48a912b51578481c1be5915f6c1c202.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/70d2e13822f4c4389fcd1214826f2a3d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/03e33647ecb2723a73505544fddbfaea.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/60aba6fd6b79021f4cdf5d2af29f97b7.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/4b84fc1406a661bbf9eb528bc1baff1e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/1957051b77dae97987f0aeaf3dd0f2ff.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/96765522f1bce114ae5c376cade9c132.jpg)
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Cutting down a full length mag brake:
I expected this to be harder than it was.
I ordered the flat mag brake from CGW and expected to cut it shorter as well as work on the reliefs for the grip tabs. To my surprise the tabs did not interfere. All I had to do was cut it short.
I used a dremel cutoff wheel and then a file to smooth out the cut edges.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/c9aae115dcd0b5634bfb2394a15047d2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/63d57401d5d3dbbcdd3ba78ca499b65d.jpg)
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Is that a magnetized vice, or an alien spore? :D
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Is that a magnetized vice, or an alien spore? :D
Hehe yes it has 2 magnets in it. It does look really cool and it prevents some of the metal from going into my lungs (I hope)
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Is that a magnetized vice, or an alien spore? :D
Hehe yes it has 2 magnets in it. It does look really cool and it prevents some of the metal from going into my lungs (I hope)
That's a great Idea...I may try the same, although obviously won't do anything with aluminum or G10/plastic. I usually mount the nozzle of my vacuum right near or have a fan blowing outside.
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Metal dust inhalation isn't generally a problem unless your blowing it around with compressed air. Steel dust will settle very quickly, while aluminum can stay airborne longer. Aluminum dust isn't toxic, but is an eye and lung irritant so a particle mask should be worn.
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I find this very interesting and like the way you go into detail about what you're doing.
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I finished the beavertail today.
I found that cutting the strips thinner was better because it did all of the cutting on the edges rather than in the center. Cutting the strips thicker basically just wastes the center of the sanding strip.
I also used a few drops of oil to help lubricate the 220 sandpaper strips.
I also went much longer on the strips for more dynamic sawing action.
I got all of the dremel toolmarks out. It took probably about 45 minutes.
Then I hand sanded the top. Because it wasn't radiused like the underside of the beavertail it didn't need the same attention. It was much faster.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/de47279388221c270d74387bea82b6ae.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/99dcc87d6e77b8f0328583cc4ddb8269.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/5b9e902d065590df6c3b1819447304de.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/edfd79a2ce4c21aaf6c69512800c9b8c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/69a0756cc8a1218294bcdd50bc9eb1cd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/c710e8ef2adaa375516b014d301705fc.jpg)
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I also finished up the slide stop lever.
With some ideas from another member I picked up a Dremel 932 bit which is a grinding stone with a cone center.
It happened to be almost the perfect shape to give the slide stop a slight bevel.
I put the dremel in the vice and used my hand to apply pressure downwards to accomplish the bevel.
It's ever-so-slight.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/657f5a2dea0677a6a939a992de4451ac.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/190aa5413ef0547e8301f6e2b477c26e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/de5566575d30d032e6ed535918bd0303.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/c0c05733fa50069399e96c343034b95d.jpg)
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Scalloping the mag release
Here is where I went wrong. Everything seemed to be going well up until this point. Now I'm not sure what to do.
I figured...hey let's just try it and see what happens.
I put on some grips to see where the front edge would stop (yes I need to order grips without the mag cutout)
Then I drew some lines to give the scallop some edges that I would stay within.
I used a sanding wheel that happened to fit exactly into the edges and gave it a whirl.
The good thing was that there was plenty of metal and it came out exactly as planned.
The bad thing is that I think it looks horrible.
So now I went into salvage mode...thinking if I expanded it a bit that it would look better. I'm not sure if it does.
Now I just hope I don't look at this and cringe every time I pick up the gun.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/2b8fcae96dfc2575e1b11d19eec2ba04.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/b30f77b50a551738d8374b23ec718c13.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/8df7fd30cc1d0bf9c986916e205fcbb0.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/b063976715a109e5c5f288d14085b226.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/496dbba9f9b418f4417d602b8ddf38f3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/8ac8d3aacbead8857c2dee5900efc624.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/de0fa99c6d8a30deb8b2513361721b28.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/ce20ea71554ee96b8cc1e210300830b4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/5d0b337b738bc181dff30ad609558fba.jpg)
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Ugh(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/c89b2e55204131c2dc1695025d3167bb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/a230b53249a41ad7cbbe29e00b99e81b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/de1581b39069f80c24d7dbc8d31ad37a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/18436cd8b116c7c823687199b98279df.jpg)
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My brother was thinking maybe I could take the scallop and melt it into the cutout that the grip already has (that would also save me from ordering yet another set of grips)
I would extend the scallop towards the rear of the gun and keep it somewhat roundish to match the circular cutout.
Thoughts?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/b557438e5922a673775e5b0701214e73.jpg)
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I hope this is better. I think it is.
Tomorrow I will match the shape of the grip better.
And when they hard chrome I hope it all blends in without the contrast. Maybe tomorrow I'll sand it to see if it looks better. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/0a1eafdccd3a90713c5fb82e939eadcc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/9bc4db0e1ee7721fd7bdad748fa7f84c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/671529fea52c1f246b03c85d38e91202.jpg)
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I love the level of detail in your posts! Right/wrong/happy with it/not happy with it/etc..., it's all relative and a teaching tool to add to a collective experience. Among the things that make this forum so valuable. Keep up the good work!
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Some better pics.
It's not great. It's not horrible. I wish I hadn't done it.
I can clean it up a bit tonight. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/92bbecc653e7ff700966a38cb14f5925.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/6059aa38b6b1db4c85432b5495b18b41.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/cdd4c4148574b73241fca743c18e62e6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/2812253bebc3b18aa67ef4803180bfee.jpg)
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Should look better when the frame is blued. As is, it makes it look like the release is poorly fitted.
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It doesn't look too bad and may look good once it is hard chromed. It kind of looks tear drop shaped with a droop. Maybe widen out toward the grips a bit and toward the top of the gun - the bottom looks concentric with the original opening?
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Your work looks very good. Takes some big ones to start sanding and cutting on your gun like that.
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Thanks for the opinions. Much appreciated. Sometimes I think I'm typing into a large void and people think I'm nuts :)
Tonight I'm going to try and bring the top edge up a bit and shape it better to match the grip.
Then I'm going to sand away the silver Cerakote in the area to see what this gun may look like without the contrast between fresh metal and cerakote. Fingers crossed that it doesn't look too bad.
If it looks horrible I may skip the hard chrome and just rust blue it at home...saving me $400 and 4 months wait.
Come to think of it, if I save $400 on hard chrome then I can use that money to buy another Compact and do this whole process again without scalloping the mag release. I can parlay even my mistakes into more guns. That's my true talent.
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I think I'm doing OK now.
I traced the grip pretty closely and cut in carefully. Then I polished up the area.
Next I took away the Cerakote to see what a hard chrome may look like in that area.
Not horrible. It's growing on me.
I think I'm done messing with this. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/17e48d1b2e6734664b3cc0cff20f673c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/f973ecb5c84c32e871029e4e1b52f99c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/a28a2a205c3e444249a72e5bb9df5206.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/362955d27df4ea5bfcf8f3ed2d3c0265.jpg)
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Rounding the trigger guard.
First I traced the area I wanted to remain flat. I did this in permanent marker.
The factory trigger guard is actually squared so has some natural lines. I wanted to maintain most of this line and then make sure my rounding met up with this line.
I started with a course sanding drum and tried to stay as flat as possible. I got rid of the serrations first.
Next I realized it would take me forever to sand down the guard so I went to a course file. I tried staying as flat as possible. No rounding the edges yet. I stopped about 1.5mm above the sharpie.
Then I switched back to the course sanding drum until I was about 1mm above it. (in retrospect I should have stayed a tad higher)
Next I did one slight angle to round it.
Then I did a 45 degree angle to round it again right up to the sharpie.
Next I swapped to a lighter sanding drum to clean it all up. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/e53407bc034f3ae6f83696a593f12f12.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/b2b20d7db378f25e5d9835d6629bb976.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/5edd8db1561ff0d5cd4ecc577d892343.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/d0c9aebd69351c7342b9f8bc007b3abc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/7803211384cf16162cfd61289d9feb36.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/5f41c7316425623a4775989211429e81.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/623d3244824d623b81ab756a1866ed7f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/c2b774c83d403ff076191a5a0eb32e3e.jpg)
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So here it is cleaned up after the softer sanding drum. Very clean for a rough cut.
I do have a problem though.
As I was sanding I noticed a pit starting to form under my sanding drum.
I believe these frame are casted and inconsistencies cause air bubbles to form in the cast. This manifests itself in holes and weaknesses in the metal.
It looks as if I found one.
I was able to push on it with my fingernail and it sunk deeper until the soft area contacted a hard area.
Originally I thought I could just sand a bit deeper but this is really deep.
My TIG welder hasn't been fired up in years. I'm out of gas. I have no more welding tips. I'm not sure what filler metal to use. I'm not sure what heating up the frame by welding it would do. I don't want to soften it.
So I have a bit of figuring out to do now. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/6d59944868c27728324be96ac9a49cf1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/8903fcf9c85595f9c29b7f0e43779f5a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/b5cba2c9bac70cdf7c5b074d4589c3ae.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/0167be3ff0973adb6c46101fe3d6b6cb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/5c2c8649986dc37f55b088e755183229.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/e40ccb537a9dc444a758cbca9df430ce.jpg)
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I've seen much smaller hard metal parts be carefully tigged without damaging the surrounding hardness. Heat sink close to both ends of occlusion and just fill the void and sand. If you haven't welded tig in a while, practice a little on a small scrap with a same size hole /void drilled in it.
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I've seen much smaller hard metal parts be carefully tigged without damaging the surrounding hardness. Heat sink close to both ends of occlusion and just fill the void and sand. If you haven't welded tig in a while, practice a little on a small scrap with a same size hole /void drilled in it.
Yup. It's been a while. I need to check my equipment.
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I dremeled out some of the uneven casting. Here's how it looks now.
Checked my TIG equipment. I'm running on fumes and need some more tungsten.
So the tungsten will be here Friday. My hope is that I don't need to go fill my tank.
Found some mild steel filler metal. Haven't done any research yet on whether his would be appropriate to use.
I'm hoping for a quick few seconds of welding and localizing the heat with some damp towels on either end of the trigger guard.
Not sure if there is any need to bring the metal to bright red and then back. I remember a while ago reading that when this happens the metal softens and when done again it hardens.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/f121f3fec96cbbd9f151ea0fb5469b89.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/b93eb6b8b6375f6c0bbcf08e9d4747e1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180328/ea9160d58cee8cb2b5b66faf41024025.jpg)
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(https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/805474P/bondor-lightweight-filler-00265-1-gallon.jpg)
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I can't do JB Weld or Bondo.
On principle I just can't. I have too much effort into this.
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Spackle?
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I did weigh all the options. Snot, bubble gum, duct tape, wet twine
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OR, another quick weld would be enough to give a tiny bit of overfill to be sanded off to a smooth surface ready for finishing. 8)
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Or drill holes all along the triggerguard to save weight.
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A quick weld and some sanding should do it.
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Where you had the round hole to fill it would have been a simple weld with the right technique. Too bad I didn't see that picture before you tried to fill it. It looks like you didn't use enough heat with your fill weld. 1/16" rod is not the best choice for this weld. You didn't get the base metal hot enough or maybe you didn't clean the hole properly before your weld. Did you clean the hole with a dental burr and acetone before welding?
Frank
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Where you had the round hole to fill it would have been a simple weld with the right technique. Too bad I didn't see that picture before you tried to fill it. It looks like you didn't use enough heat with your fill weld. 1/16" rod is not the best choice for this weld. You didn't get the base metal hot enough or maybe you didn't clean the hole properly before your weld. Did you clean the hole with a dental burr and acetone before welding?
Frank
There's a pic with a weld?
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Where you had the round hole to fill it would have been a simple weld with the right technique. Too bad I didn't see that picture before you tried to fill it. It looks like you didn't use enough heat with your fill weld. 1/16" rod is not the best choice for this weld. You didn't get the base metal hot enough or maybe you didn't clean the hole properly before your weld. Did you clean the hole with a dental burr and acetone before welding?
Frank
There's a pic with a weld?
The series of pictures before the Bonds post has a picture that looks like a weld to me.
Frank
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Where you had the round hole to fill it would have been a simple weld with the right technique. Too bad I didn't see that picture before you tried to fill it. It looks like you didn't use enough heat with your fill weld. 1/16" rod is not the best choice for this weld. You didn't get the base metal hot enough or maybe you didn't clean the hole properly before your weld. Did you clean the hole with a dental burr and acetone before welding?
Frank
There's a pic with a weld?
Sorry for the confusion. I did NOT weld yet.
I'm waiting for my tungsten to arrive.
The depression got worse when I pushed on it with my fingernail. So I knew there was a cavity there. I took a Dremel with a very fine balled tip and tried to smooth the casting a bit. This way hopefully when I weld, it's not going to sputter at me.
FrankW : it's been a long time since I welded and I have never welded on a gun. I'd appreciate your advice if you feel inclined to give it.
I purchased 1/16 2% thoriated tungsten. I have a 185 TIG. I have some stainless filler of different types but only 1 mild steel pictured.
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Yeah, I didn't see pictures where you'd welded it up yet, either.
Like Frank says, 1/16" may take a bit much heat to work with, .045 should do fine. Just mild steel fill is all you need for this. SS would fill the hole and it would probably chrome OK but it won't take bluing should you ever go that route
Not familiar with what you have for a welder and how far you can reliably turn it down. I filled a few pits when finishing up my beavertail extension a couple of weeks ago without trouble to the area I was finishing but I had it turned down pretty low. I'll assume that you are familiar enough working with smaller areas/lighter materials that you just need to bone up on it a bit to get your touch back.
I don't think you have too much to be concerned over as far as applying heat to the trigger guard provided you can keep it away from the more high-stress areas. Some paste heat sink or wet rag should do, or you could even clamp it into a metal cake pan filled with water. That would easily keep the entire area above the trigger guard very well protected. Just wrap the grip behind the guard in a wet rag as soon as you are done touching it up to prevent the heat spreading there. It really shouldn't take much to fill this. Hopefully it doesn't have some deeper inclusion that wants to keep spitting the filler back out.
Looking forward to seeing your fix!
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Thanks.
Trying to play out in my head how this is going to work.
I'm going to preheat the area and hit the top of the inclusion, and inserting filler from the top to the bottom.
I don't have anything smaller than 1/16th. I'll just make do.
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I try not to let a night go to waste so tonight I 220 sanded/radiused the new rounded trigger guard. I left the area of the blemish somewhat raw since I'd have to redo it later anyway.
I ended up cutting the front of the trigger guard a tad but close. If you look at the thickness of the trigger guard you can tell.
Tomorrow I'll do the trigger undercut if time permits.
Welding supplies arrive on Friday so I have some time. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/f5c6044967ece232ede474ca3e28b0f8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/81fc1a24cd57d3a201c8b66e0eed941b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/be0eb5d7d30c548b1348346a293e122d.jpg)
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I just do not understand why someone would do this to a perfectly good square trigger guard!
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Nice work!
I?d get after that undercut for the trigger gaurd if you have time before welding. You could find another little spot when you do it. I actually found a smaller little hole in the exact same spot yours is in. I?m out of town otherwise I?d snag a pic.
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I love reading that people modify and customize their guns. With my skill set, I'm limited to Sugru and JB-Weld on a polymer gun, however!! :) :)
Joe
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I just do not understand why someone would do this to a perfectly good square trigger guard!
It's simple really, round trigger guards are prettier. ;)
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Nice work!
I?d get after that undercut for the trigger gaurd if you have time before welding. You could find another little spot when you do it. I actually found a smaller little hole in the exact same spot yours is in. I?m out of town otherwise I?d snag a pic.
That's a good idea.
I plan on attacking the undercut tonight. There are a lot of angles in the area and I haven't really figured out a great way of doing it. I'm going to try and be a bit more methodical with this one...but end of the day the beavertail and undercut dramatically improve the shootability of the gun for me so I'd forego some of the clean crisp lines for comfort.
I just do not understand why someone would do this to a perfectly good square trigger guard!
Just my personal preference. I think they are an eyesore and serve no purpose. I'm not one to hold the squared portion of the trigger guard.
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I like the way you think!
(https://i.imgur.com/3uAk8Kr.jpg?2)
(https://i.imgur.com/1xjVYMl.jpg?2)
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I like the way you think!
(https://i.imgur.com/3uAk8Kr.jpg?2)
(https://i.imgur.com/1xjVYMl.jpg?2)
Yes!
What safety is that?
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Tonight I worked on the undercut.
I don't actually need my hand up much higher on the gun. I think that would make the beavertail situation worse.
I do need to relieve an area so I stop getting calouses on my middle finger.
Is I marked a line and hit it with my larger sanding drum.
I realized I couldn't get the shape I wanted with the line so I cut until the line disappeared. Now I think it's OK.
I started to shoe shine the area but I'm tired. I'll do more tomorrow after hopefully successfully welding the inclusion.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/6cefc393f4a42b7734fd71109e1df059.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/5e111f4fd79daa42318965adf1629bcc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/fa5037f8a9ebd431236ba3a32d9c10e3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/096a23bb0cd61328277b8d9c4c00a1a6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/87399ed152fa6c1a9aa5e7a43b933b6c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/6a0a36c938b75538858ea595c17b8d62.jpg)
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I cut mine pretty far and it didn?t negate the beaver tail and back strap work. We all have different grips and hands... for me it let my middle finger go up and my other fingers get around and on the front strap much better. This allowed a better grip, squeezing the front strap back into my hand. I don?t know if that makes sense... anyways. Let us know how it feels.
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If you want a slightly extended magazine release for the older models to make your releif cut look a little better and get a little better access to the magzine release without having to spend big bucks CZ makes a release for the Combat model that does this for less than $20.00. These have a flat checkerd face and fit the round holes.
https://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/0420005304_Magazine-Catch-85-Combat
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If you want a slightly extended magazine release for the older models to make your releif cut look a little better and get a little better access to the magzine release without having to spend big bucks CZ make a release for the Combat model that does this for less than $20.00. Thes have a flat checkerd face and fit the round holes.
https://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/0420005304_Magazine-Catch-85-Combat
Thanks. I think I'll pick up one or two of them.
Weird thing is that the site says "SET SCREW NOT INCLUDED". Do you know if there's actually a set screw for this? I'm not sure what it would set.
I may pick up a few for my Pre-B's.
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Don't know what that's about. There is no set screw. There has never been any special fitting for me, just a drop in replacement. I have put these on all of mine, it makes the release easier, easier to get to but not long enough to inadvertantly release the magazine.
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Don't know what that's about. There is no set screw. There has never been any special fitting for me, just a drop in replacement. I have put these on all of mine, it makes the release easier, easier to get to but not long enough to inadvertantly release the magazine.
Thanks. I ordered a few.
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Don't laugh. My welding skills are really rusty.
I'll see how it goes tonight cleaning it up. I may need to weld some more to fill in some gaps. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/da90b0d2c00d1d6296e6927a163b3a8f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/7ec1ff6aa4ad8b3e27cc345035f8a32c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/153c8f370f074e894a69ebc987b39b74.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/db0aeb86ccee1ad623971420258d02c1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/acf4052b97d662bf8c4fe53eb04061ae.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/38fc1a562eb683cee39d4daaa8d32024.jpg)
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Nothing a little grinding and sanding won't cure.
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OK so I made negative progress tonight.
I started to reshape the trigger guard. Everything was going well. There was a tiny outline where I was welding so I pushed on it with my fingernail. It caved in. Now it looks almost exactly like it did before... I think next time around I'm going to give it a bit more heat. No filler metal until I fill the hole with itself.
I also made negative progress with the beavertail. I started to shape the bottom and the beavertail looked really long. Great I thought. Plenty for me to cut off when I find the right length.
Wrong. I started to smooth out the top to get rid of the bulbous tumors. When they were gone I looked and the beavertail was paper thin. Thin enough I was able to break it off with my fingers.
So I had to reshape it back to where it was thicker. And somehow I think I ended up with a thinner, narrower beavertail than when I started.
I hope someone reading this is laughing. I really do.
I think I need to go spend some more time with my welder. Unfortunately it is at my mother's house so I don't have nightly access to it.
Oh well. It doesn't always work out. I need to reweld both pieces. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/0eaee96ff8504ebcabc6c974b07aa58e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/c27fae4bac9ea048b16793c0a135fe53.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/bef2f8275b8f8344809cd86f898dc90b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/f0a459290dbfe933a93232953da069f8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/1d8b3334e1a714f486c8ff2824380e46.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/c259921bd50884b7a349363b14d4b6bf.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/7f57e51024e0103f57fa635cc7e4115c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/8154142f1e0ab92e272d41bd94927894.jpg)
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I wonder if anyone makes a weld-on beavertail or I can repurpose a 1911 grip safety or something.
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Maybe just weld on a piece of flat plain steel 1/8 thick and just shape it.
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Could you weld on more layers - kind of like welding on hard-surfacing. You know, weld a pass, let it cool, then weld another pass, let it cool, etc. until it's built-up to where you want it. Light passes at first since it's so thin. Then file, sand,or grind to get it the way you want?
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I took a few guns out to compare the beavertails.
Shadow 2
SP01 compact (99021)
CZ75 compact that I am working on now
CZ75 pre-b that I modified
The factory nice beavertail is about 16mm from the hammer recess to the end of the beavertail.
My compact isn't too bad. It's 3mm shorter but it's narrower and thinner as well. It's just not going to work.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/c3f791e7cbc19dde6b9794d8a22d3f96.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/5b1d1f7f3c56cd9e67f4b77e492cbdb5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/673881570dfb3603155186aed664aa06.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/cd656279eb537a0341d3956a3be0c12c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/d69ec49e74c80bb77646557448fa61be.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/4256e5c745f7e0da365fe41dd61c1119.jpg)
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So I decided to go drastic and basic all at the same time.
Im going to craft a beavertail out of some plain steel stock I had laying around.
I cut it to roughly the dimensions of the beavertail extension.
I filed away the back of my compact beavertail until the thickness left roughly matched my plain stock. This was so welding the frame and extension together was easier.
I also filed the frame at a slight upwards angle to give it more sweeping height.
I hope this works. I may try and weld it tonight after my family goes to sleep but gotta drive 45 minutes away to my mother's house. I'll probably want to bring some shaping tools to get a rough fit. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/c88aba412ab32e493867e60f6c5a05d8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/f01198310ebfbeafab9bbf4d7f4a2e48.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/a38b6bba99508cb32316384bf3d2a8c2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/74abf010a74de0aa428118c05751fe20.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/0f346349efc7f54f7f86739ecdc8b3f8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/da13028f710515b3b4c288a7831bef3d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/3b020cb266cd652b4da46d134a5a5fa7.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/cb818336c582e1d90f4caf154041dc35.jpg)
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Melting the nose :
While this disaster is unfolding with my beavertail I decided to melt the nose of the frame a bit.
One of my pet peeves is to grab the front of the slide and rack it, slamming my fingers into the squared off frame.
My CZ railed compacts are all beveled so I figured why not do a slight bevel as well.
The interesting thing is that the reliefs in the front of the slide don't match. (the flat part of the front sides). One side is a bit further from the frame than the other.
I'm contemplating sanding away one of the sides so they match and seamlessly blend into the frame.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/1a507e248bbc46c888c424ec6a181674.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/d2d8fbc3cc8072cbdd336fbbe9e4d6fd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/bfb902461884232d1cbb2cba7ad45782.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/7e79492875e8664caa2c15f0ea29b1e1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180331/0869dfe46ba9a180b6a7e337e8b709ee.jpg)
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I packed up my tools after everyone at my house went to bed and headed to my mother's house which is where my TIG is stored.
It was not the best night.
I had a small hole in the trigger guard to fill.
I am just so out of practice. I had to reweld and grind it literally 5 times until it came out decent. Maybe a B-
1.5 hours later I started the beavertail.
Then something didn't seem right and I realized I ran out of Argon.
Now my argon tank is in the back seat of my truck.
And I'm thinking of trying to make room and hook up electrical for my TIG in my garage somehow (2 cars and a tractor + riding lawn mower).
I'm spent.
Time to relax and think about this tomorrow.
Pictures included for comic relief.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180401/7292270bbe4a9def4eba8dde6d45560a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180401/391ea61a1eb9bd6aa9e17d43dcb329da.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180401/5f97b93df2c39ba08aa2b44252e1af72.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180401/743948445e49ac520ac6f3bb2f2ce941.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180401/ae2c30cfad8ebd17e9bfe2fe9aa15651.jpg)
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You?ll get it. This is a learning moment for me getting to see you problem solve!
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Keep it up, I'm sure you'll get it right in the end.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180401/5f97b93df2c39ba08aa2b44252e1af72.jpg)
Just leave it like that.....it's perfect.
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Don't know what that's about. There is no set screw. There has never been any special fitting for me, just a drop in replacement. I have put these on all of mine, it makes the release easier, easier to get to but not long enough to inadvertantly release the magazine.
What size tungsten and gas cup are you using? The shielding looks like it may be a little light. Make sure diffuser screen isn't all boogered up.
On the trigger guard, yes in your observation that it needs to fuse in on itself so that you don't just cover over it and just grind the filler back off. High freq or touch start? Or just plain ol scratch n sniff? If you have to break the arc physically you lose your gas coverage at a rather critical moment. A more advanced machine that allows you to stop the arc while still maintaining full shielding you'll have an easier time. You need to be cautious to not blow out the guard. You may be able to use a copper plumbing fitting behind it as a backup piece/heatsink.
For the beavertail I was a bit worried about the material that you'd previously removed in that area not leaving you enough to effectively work with. If you haven't already welded the tab on yet may I suggest that you try a bit of a thicker tab so that you can do a bit more sculpting and shaping instead of shaping and bending.
Patience. If your machine or skill isn't quite up to it see about getting some help before things get out of hand. The art will be in the finishing. Be sure to give yourself a chance to get it there.
Keep up the good work!
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Don't know what that's about. There is no set screw. There has never been any special fitting for me, just a drop in replacement. I have put these on all of mine, it makes the release easier, easier to get to but not long enough to inadvertantly release the magazine.
What size tungsten and gas cup are you using? The shielding looks like it may be a little light. Make sure diffuser screen isn't all boogered up.
On the trigger guard, yes in your observation that it needs to fuse in on itself so that you don't just cover over it and just grind the filler back off. High freq or touch start? Or just plain ol scratch n sniff? If you have to break the arc physically you lose your gas coverage at a rather critical moment. A more advanced machine that allows you to stop the arc while still maintaining full shielding you'll have an easier time. You need to be cautious to not blow out the guard. You may be able to use a copper plumbing fitting behind it as a backup piece/heatsink.
For the beavertail I was a bit worried about the material that you'd previously removed in that area not leaving you enough to effectively work with. If you haven't already welded the tab on yet may I suggest that you try a bit of a thicker tab so that you can do a bit more sculpting and shaping instead of shaping and bending.
Patience. If your machine or skill isn't quite up to it see about getting some help before things get out of hand. The art will be in the finishing. Be sure to give yourself a chance to get it there.
Keep up the good work!
10 years ago I would have been able to answer your questions. It's a good thing I made laminated cards with settings.
I am using a 1/16 lanthanated tungsten. A #5 cup and depending on amperage anywhere from 12 to 18 cfm of Argon.
I start by holding my torch about 1/8 away from the metal. My machine does post weld gas flow.
I just got back from Home Depot. Adding a circuit to my subpanel maybe this afternoon so I can get the tank refilled and bring the machine over from my mother's.
Now just need to find some room in the garage somehow.
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Welding setup is now in my garage, new gas tank, smaller filler metal, some fresh ideas from helpful members.
A bit cramped but it'll have to do. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/3a5977553c5db829b96de31ac427d2a8.jpg)
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Hi Underwhere,
I put wheels on my TIG table used in my garage shop in Alaska. Wife was not happy to leave car outside all winter.
You can see one wheel at the bottom of the tank on the left. I just tilted the tank and move the table where I needed it at the time.
Frank
https://www.firearmsforum.com/Firearms/ImageUser/2345/24658 (https://www.firearmsforum.com/Firearms/ImageUser/2345/24658)
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Hi Underwhere,
I put wheels on my TIG table used in my garage shop in Alaska. Wife was not happy to leave car outside all winter.
You can see one wheel at the bottom of the tank on the left. I just tilted the tank and move the table where I needed it at the time.
Frank
https://www.firearmsforum.com/Firearms/ImageUser/2345/24658 (https://www.firearmsforum.com/Firearms/ImageUser/2345/24658)
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll weld some wheel on. It would make it a lot easier.
So tonight I took a practice piece of flat steel and cut a channel in it with a Dremel to give me better penetration on the weld. This was from sberres' advice. Things looked good so I attempted on my beavertail.
I spot welded the underside, then cut into the top side with the dremel.
Then I laid a bead down the cut.
I flipped the frame over after cooling it and did the same to the bottom.
Then I filled the gap at the edges.
Now time to get the shape back together with a course sanding drum.
I still have some tiny pits on the top. I may need to reweld that.
But I continued to shape it to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
I realized the beavertail doesn't need to be that long by looking at how it fit in my hand. So I cut it shorter.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/011d5d1a23d15ab450969722746c3b99.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/e0138e1f6e068a43c3d6baee57c9f88a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/9de72dff9019c0fd0fb69410c3919df1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/d413cfae408c39bbdf31ca7228993369.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/2245d4722c29adcfbf0750f4323bbcd2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/2bc8c3508ce24ef1372ca5b9c6528df7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/a013872e0c7c765460c25e068107247e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/5b0f3ad4b7091edef541e2c5bfc38804.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/e36dd381fa1b2a3d748f308927cff4bf.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/42165a16b5ccca3e5f96986ec57b16df.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/9b61d9cac65066148733019a02a5951c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/cb44f292283e94efb3ef057837067c64.jpg)
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Getting there! Don't try to grind the pits out. They're deeper than you'd think. Fuse them back over making sure that they do indeed fuse and get a dot of clean fill so that you don't wind up trying to grind out a low spot. It may take several attempts but you should get there. I'm on the edge of my seat!
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Getting there! Don't try to grind the pits out. They're deeper than you'd think. Fuse them back over making sure that they do indeed fuse and get a dot of clean fill so that you don't wind up trying to grind out a low spot. It may take several attempts but you should get there. I'm on the edge of my seat!
Yeah I'm with you on that. I think I probably went slightly too deep and instead I should be trying to fill then re-grind.
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Yea I'm a bit stuck now.
Tonight I tried filling the small pits unsuccessfully probably 3 times. (weld, grind, weld, grind)
I'm running my machine at 50 amps with 15cfh of argon.
I tried hitting it with the torch to try and get the pit to melt into itself and then use the filler. That didn't work. I actually created more holes and some of them deeper.
Then I tried cleaning differently and it may have helped a bit.
Then I tried cutting a channel with a Dremel cutoff wheel and I think that worked better. But I still have little pits.
I clean by:
Grind surface smooth with sanding drum.
Use dremel scotch Brite pad attachment.
I was using acetone to clean but the fibers of the paper towel or cloth would get stuck on the metal and I figured it would be worse that way
Any thoughts? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180405/e00605d0cb9a4d77071b75bd16d6c46f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180405/660d9e3b4fc0bdaef6f856bc645a90cc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180405/e76c182cc0a37f8250af068a6fae04ef.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180405/abf1f083cc1d8954b92526b9de1f43bd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180405/72d9a37df980c7105d285ae2d83c666b.jpg)
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Any paper or fibers is not the problem or cause here. In that last photo where it kinda looks like a couple of nipples- that's cuz of gas from impurities trying to bubble out as the fill solidifies. It's not about foreign material at this point. Grinding the slag or oxide out will help but you can't rush this or just fill over. It's pretty unlikely that you have anything on the metal that requires more than a clean wire brush. Oxide pits are tough to deal with under the best of circumstances.
50 amps seems pretty high for such a small, thin area. I probably was running at 30-35. I can always turn it up but too much to begin with creates or worsens problems. Keep it minimal but enough to create a puddle in the pits. Just work it till the pit(s) collapses and fuses together and then add a bit of fill. Don't get to hasty or you just keep the bubble underneath to try again later. Control and localize the heat as much as you can right now.
Turn your gas up a bit, keep the tungsten as close to the cup as possible, and make sure you've got a good, clean, sharp point ground on it. Keep the arc length as short as possible, too. High heat, long arc, low gas flow, contaminated or poorly pointed tungsten all contribute to oxidation. Be sure to prepurge the torch head after you've been shut down. Clip the end of your fill wire before you start again to get rid of the little bulb.
Looks like you've got a good machine for the task. From what I could see in an earlier photo I wish you had a little different diffuser/torch head. Looks kinda like the type with the gas holes sort of along the sides of the collet as opposed to the type with a screen. I generally see better shielding with the latter but keeping arc and tungsten short will help. When you see that dark blackening or the brown, smoky streak your losing shielding too soon.
You do have some nice control feature with that machine. You're using the hf start with a button, right? You can also use a ramp start /stop as a way to help avoid some pitting from the arc stopping too quickly. You can use it to ramp down, especially, over a 2-3 second period to a lower current or even none. When the arc stops don't move the cup away from the workpiece until the gas stops flowing. Yours will permit a ramped start as well. Get your scrap pieces and set this up. I think it'll help. How long is your post-flow? A little more might help.
Earlier I'd suggested using a copper plumbing fitting behind the trigger guard as a heat sink. You can do that here as well. Something like a 3/4" threaded tee or coupling in copper (unless you've got a hunk of round copper stock lying about?) held somehow right opposite where you are welding. It won't react and will prevent burn through and better protect the workpiece. It'll help keep heat away from where you don't want it for better control where you do want it.
Sorry if it's a bit long winded. Let me know where this takes you.
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Any paper or fibers is not the problem or cause here. In that last photo where it kinda looks like a couple of nipples- that's cuz of gas from impurities trying to bubble out as the fill solidifies. It's not about foreign material at this point. Grinding the slag or oxide out will help but you can't rush this or just fill over. It's pretty unlikely that you have anything on the metal that requires more than a clean wire brush. Oxide pits are tough to deal with under the best of circumstances.
50 amps seems pretty high for such a small, thin area. I probably was running at 30-35. I can always turn it up but too much to begin with creates or worsens problems. Keep it minimal but enough to create a puddle in the pits. Just work it till the pit(s) collapses and fuses together and then add a bit of fill. Don't get to hasty or you just keep the bubble underneath to try again later. Control and localize the heat as much as you can right now.
Turn your gas up a bit, keep the tungsten as close to the cup as possible, and make sure you've got a good, clean, sharp point ground on it. Keep the arc length as short as possible, too. High heat, long arc, low gas flow, contaminated or poorly pointed tungsten all contribute to oxidation. Be sure to prepurge the torch head after you've been shut down. Clip the end of your fill wire before you start again to get rid of the little bulb.
Looks like you've got a good machine for the task. From what I could see in an earlier photo I wish you had a little different diffuser/torch head. Looks kinda like the type with the gas holes sort of along the sides of the collet as opposed to the type with a screen. I generally see better shielding with the latter but keeping arc and tungsten short will help. When you see that dark blackening or the brown, smoky streak your losing shielding too soon.
You do have some nice control feature with that machine. You're using the hf start with a button, right? You can also use a ramp start /stop as a way to help avoid some pitting from the arc stopping too quickly. You can use it to ramp down, especially, over a 2-3 second period to a lower current or even none. When the arc stops don't move the cup away from the workpiece until the gas stops flowing. Yours will permit a ramped start as well. Get your scrap pieces and set this up. I think it'll help. How long is your post-flow? A little more might help.
Earlier I'd suggested using a copper plumbing fitting behind the trigger guard as a heat sink. You can do that here as well. Something like a 3/4" threaded tee or coupling in copper (unless you've got a hunk of round copper stock lying about?) held somehow right opposite where you are welding. It won't react and will prevent burn through and better protect the workpiece. It'll help keep heat away from where you don't want it for better control where you do want it.
Sorry if it's a bit long winded. Let me know where this takes you.
Thanks.
Let me digest that. I may need to break out the manual to my machine to check settings.
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Did you check to see if there is enough clearance for the hammer to come all the way back.
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Did you check to see if there is enough clearance for the hammer to come all the way back.
You bring up a good point. I have thought about it a little bit.
My plan was to get the beavertail set and if the hammer made contact to shave out a cavity for it to fall into.
And just pray that the contact was not at the end of the beavertail. :)
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I didn't install my original hammer to check but took a look at its path before beginning. With the stock spur it will definitely strike from normal slide travel. It'll need to lose about 1/8"-3/16" of its tip. It's a little more severe if manually pulled all the way back. I'd considered this before starting.
I don't have it mind to go with performance parts so I will start by trimming the hammer to fit and see if I like it or would be happier with an OEM ring model. I did want to ensure that by extending this that the hammer be completely above the beavertail as I don't want to make a pinch point.
I'm also speculating that based upon my b-Omega convertible that I'd be fine if I wanted to upgrade to a race hammer profile.
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I didn't install my original hammer to check but took a look at its path before beginning. With the stock spur it will definitely strike from normal slide travel. It'll need to lose about 1/8"-3/16" of its tip. It's a little more severe if manually pulled all the way back. I'd considered this before starting.
I don't have it mind to go with performance parts so I will start by trimming the hammer to fit and see if I like it or would be happier with an OEM ring model. I did want to ensure that by extending this that the hammer be completely above the beavertail as I don't want to make a pinch point.
I'm also speculating that based upon my b-Omega convertible that I'd be fine if I wanted to upgrade to a race hammer profile.
Maybe I'll just toss in my sear, race hammer etc and see what I'm working with. Probably 5 minutes well spent.
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I was gonna wait until reassembly to trim the hammer but now I'll probably have to dig it out and fit it up. Getting bored waiting for spring to hit so I can blue this thing anyhow.
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That took way longer than 5 minutes.
Since I was putting the hammer and strut together it only made sense to polish things now before I put in the CGW hammer pin.
Then fiddling the sear cage back together etc etc.
Nevertheless I think I'm OK.
Here is the slide pushing the hammer back mimicking natural motion. It looks like I'm clear.
I believe the DA does not pull the hammer back as far.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/4e52c06b392ed159fbbce61d147f6c37.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/cdcb8308d61f84303659bbbf5978e157.jpg)
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What a frustrating day.
You know that feeling you get when you are doing something and are just not confident it will actually work? That is me welding my beavertail.
I have welded and grinded on this probably 15 times, each time not being able to get the pits out. Tonight I hit it again. By some miracle it seemed to work out better. I dropped my amperage to 35 max and I just spent a lot of time pushing puddles of molten metal around.
I'm calling it done even though it's not perfect. If I were to continue I think there's a good chance I would make it worse.
So here are pics of the pitted before pics and some of the after.
I compared to my Shadow 2 beavertail to get some perspective in what it should look like.
It definitely does NOT look like my Shadow 2 but does extend the same length.
I'm not sure how to do this beavertail extension for my pre-b that I just finished or the one I have sitting there ready to be worked on. I wish there was some sort of weld-on extension.
I definitely don't want to go through this again. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/dcf8fb9ee6ac4f70c0615524a9d9e017.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/784c04566636fac94a5b36f6a3bca05b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/4d20e830c640d8a6697d7cd4c4527c9a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/3d72b6f63175afe84fd099a0f545a4a9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/f7334a3ff67af20441f72277e088d2cd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/101674232b87068050ef575414238882.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/0c16f5e0f85bd80c8ec74b112f27fc82.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/213d267de1c52b1f291a69cdcf81a788.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/b92917167ddcb5aacf2ae9ddaaad027a.jpg)
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Now I'm wondering if I should make it thicker by adding a bead or a strip of metal in the center of the underside of the beavertail.
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I think you should leave it thin so as to allow a higher grip on the gun as long as it's structurally sound.
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Here is the slide pushing the hammer back mimicking natural motion. It looks like I'm clear.
I believe the DA does not pull the hammer back as far.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/4e52c06b392ed159fbbce61d147f6c37.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/cdcb8308d61f84303659bbbf5978e157.jpg)
Will there be any inertia from the slide slamming the hammer back that may result in the hammer bouncing off the beavertail?
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Here is the slide pushing the hammer back mimicking natural motion. It looks like I'm clear.
I believe the DA does not pull the hammer back as far.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/4e52c06b392ed159fbbce61d147f6c37.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/cdcb8308d61f84303659bbbf5978e157.jpg)
Will there be any inertia from the slide slamming the hammer back that may result in the hammer bouncing off the beavertail?
Yea that's a good question. I don't know the answer to that.
In theory there is 13 pounds of spring pressure holding the hammer upwards and the slide isn't pushing the hammer downwards, just rearwards. Someone smarter than me could probably calculate the likeliness of this.
Here is a 99021, shadow 2 and SP01 all with the race hammer. They all show the tiniest bit more clearance.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/930700ff8ab60fa26c4be17a0b4fdae6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/e5b48af5e5e1050d654c020ba87df623.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180408/3ae2a2398f62ae8e0c53e82a1201500a.jpg)
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If you notice the bottom of the beaver tails. They flatten and then swoop up for a tail at the end.
With the thinness of the piece you welded on and the upwards and it has you don?t get that flat then up. I think that is a major reason it looks different. Does that make sense?
How does it feel? I think that flat on the bottom is meant to help. It contacts your hand sooner in recoil or dots flush against your hand for a greater area. This distributing recoil more and allowing less rolling back into your hand. The part that swoops up at the end seems to add comfort and help with grip acquisition. These are just some ideas. So I?m curious how yours feels at this point...
If you do it over I would cut off what you added and weld a piece that is 3 or 4 times thicker and then you shape it.
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I would round off all the sharp edges, polish it up and send it on. It does not have to look like a factory beaver tail as long as it looks well finished and serves the purpose.
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I would round off all the sharp edges, polish it up and send it on. It does not have to look like a factory beaver tail as long as it looks well finished and serves the purpose.
^^^^^To this. I think your main issue from the start on this was to try extending an area that was already modified and leaving you with not a lot of original material to work with. I would consider this one as function over form and not do a repeat on an already finished model.
As to one that hasn't been started yet that could be a different story. But whether you add a thicker piece and sculpt it into shape or refine your technique to do it with weld material would be your call. I think a reflective pause and some mock up work with the method your thinking of would be in order.
For the moment you've got a bit of experience now to guide you and I bet you've learned a lot!
Will this one be a rust blue as well? I'm very curious to see what if any difference there will be in how the added piece behaves. I'm still waiting for the garage to warm up to do mine. We were still in single digit temps this morning.
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This one was supposed to be hard chromed with the rounds matte and the flats polished. I hope the matte hides the pits.
If it doesn't, I dare say this may need cerakoting to make it look decent. Bluing probably won't hide this stuff.
Sberres you are right about the project. I took too much off in the beginning.
I do have a problem though. I have 2 other CZ's with beavertails already modified and so I'm in the same boat with those and I don't want to go about things the same way again.
Tonight:
The underside of the beavertail had some pits so I tried welding them up. The underside was OK. Not great but I ended up burning through an edge. I had to build up the edge again which led me back to the top. The second I got to the top I started making holes again. It's a never ending cycle. I have things to a point where I just want to call it done. I will make it worse if I continue.
Now I just need to shoeshine it with 220 to get the marks out and solidify the shape.
Once I do this to the entire gun then it's time to polish up the parts and get the gun together.
When that is done, it'll go out for hard chrome.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/d582ecd0a59731be56d8c580cdcef046.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/36f7de7b97e19af30e963e3becf01165.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/bf373d1bafb1bf09dbcd9ccd1a1dfb90.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/8eb646c6a7ff0fe9b9214f1f815bb100.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/d71dc937d7a728fff9008bb237da9931.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/d45f458292a4919e8ddd8569e74ae8c4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180409/672acf2b24793c9a3e92974c3b9d1801.jpg)
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it is too long and too thin and the wrong angle. and you should stop welding on guns unless you want to scrap one on occasion.
I have wondered if it is possible to heat and bend an old guns tail a bit before shaping.
work on your welding skills with cheaper practice parts! O0
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My son's the real welder and I am not, but 7014 /16" rod would fill those holes in a few seconds of seconds. Thickening that section from potential hammer contact back to the frame might look better, but it's likely strong enough short of dropping it on the beavertail.
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This one was supposed to be hard chromed with the rounds matte and the flats polished. I hope the matte hides the pits.
Hard chrome probably won't hide anything, and it might actually make the flaws more apparent. Hard chrome conforms to the base metal, and any flaws (even scratches) are reproduced in detail.
Just something you may want to consider.
Yeah. Definitely a consideration. I gotta think about this one (or fix those holes)
it is too long and too thin and the wrong angle. and you should stop welding on guns unless you want to scrap one on occasion.
I have wondered if it is possible to heat and bend an old guns tail a bit before shaping.
work on your welding skills with cheaper practice parts! O0
Yup. I agree. It is comfortable though.
And yes on the welding. My scrap practice metal works fine. I can mimick holes and fill mild steel fine. I'm not sure what's going on with the frame but it isn't responding the same.
I'm ok scrapping this gun if it goes really bad. It's a 17 year old gun I got for ~350 which was in ok condition. Not a huge loss.
I think even if I refinish it as-is, it would still be better than what it started as.
I'm going to reach out to some friends who may know some welders. Not the MIG type but the TIG type. Local help is always nice. Just gotta find it.
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The tail has kind of dominated your attention lately but how did the trigger guard work out? Were you able to get that void filled ok?
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The tail has kind of dominated your attention lately but how did the trigger guard work out? Were you able to get that void filled ok?
Also not the greatest. It turned out ok.
It's so thin that it was difficult to fill holes.
I ended up with an edge of the trigger guard that had a small line crack in it from the casting. I tried to fill that last night. Being on a really thin edge it was difficult but it ended up a bit better.
It's not perfect but I can live with it.
I'll post pics tonight.
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The tail has kind of dominated your attention lately but how did the trigger guard work out? Were you able to get that void filled ok?
Also not the greatest. It turned out ok.
It's so thin that it was difficult to fill holes.
I ended up with an edge of the trigger guard that had a small line crack in it from the casting. I tried to fill that last night. Being on a really thin edge it was difficult but it ended up a bit better.
It's not perfect but I can live with it.
I'll post pics tonight.
All in all sounds like a bit of a letdown. Regroup, take notes, don't despair! You'll come out the other side that much the wiser.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The tail has kind of dominated your attention lately but how did the trigger guard work out? Were you able to get that void filled ok?
Also not the greatest. It turned out ok.
It's so thin that it was difficult to fill holes.
I ended up with an edge of the trigger guard that had a small line crack in it from the casting. I tried to fill that last night. Being on a really thin edge it was difficult but it ended up a bit better.
It's not perfect but I can live with it.
I'll post pics tonight.
All in all sounds like a bit of a letdown. Regroup, take notes, don't despair! You'll come out the other side that much the wiser.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yup. Right now I'm re-examining my welding equipment and techniques. I ordered new collets. My #5 seemed to be somewhat non-circular and there was a lot of crud on it.
When I weld on this material the surface instantly goes bumpy and as soon as I give it any heat at all it develops a hole.
Certainly not the welding I'm used to. Stainless would puddle and the surface would remain solid. Aluminum much harder to start but it doesn't do this either.
I used to do a lot of stainless and a bunch of aluminum in the past. Never anything this small.
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The tail has kind of dominated your attention lately but how did the trigger guard work out? Were you able to get that void filled ok?
Also not the greatest. It turned out ok.
It's so thin that it was difficult to fill holes.
I ended up with an edge of the trigger guard that had a small line crack in it from the casting. I tried to fill that last night. Being on a really thin edge it was difficult but it ended up a bit better.
It's not perfect but I can live with it.
I'll post pics tonight.
All in all sounds like a bit of a letdown. Regroup, take notes, don't despair! You'll come out the other side that much the wiser.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yup. Right now I'm re-examining my welding equipment and techniques. I ordered new collets. My #5 seemed to be somewhat non-circular and there was a lot of crud on it.
When I weld on this material the surface instantly goes bumpy and as soon as I give it any heat at all it develops a hole.
Certainly not the welding I'm used to. Stainless would puddle and the surface would remain solid. Aluminum much harder to start but it doesn't do this either.
I used to do a lot of stainless and a bunch of aluminum in the past. Never anything this small.
Any updates? I find this post very interesting.
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The tail has kind of dominated your attention lately but how did the trigger guard work out? Were you able to get that void filled ok?
Also not the greatest. It turned out ok.
It's so thin that it was difficult to fill holes.
I ended up with an edge of the trigger guard that had a small line crack in it from the casting. I tried to fill that last night. Being on a really thin edge it was difficult but it ended up a bit better.
It's not perfect but I can live with it.
I'll post pics tonight.
All in all sounds like a bit of a letdown. Regroup, take notes, don't despair! You'll come out the other side that much the wiser.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yup. Right now I'm re-examining my welding equipment and techniques. I ordered new collets. My #5 seemed to be somewhat non-circular and there was a lot of crud on it.
When I weld on this material the surface instantly goes bumpy and as soon as I give it any heat at all it develops a hole.
Certainly not the welding I'm used to. Stainless would puddle and the surface would remain solid. Aluminum much harder to start but it doesn't do this either.
I used to do a lot of stainless and a bunch of aluminum in the past. Never anything this small.
Any updates? I find this post very interesting.
I found a local professional welder who is going to take a look next week. I'll post an update when I see him.
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I was just test fitting the hammer again. I honestly forget what I had done since the last time I test fitted. Definitely different now though.
Now the hammer doesn't fit. The slide cannot move rearward because the hammer gets sandwiched against the beavertail.
Going to the welders tomorrow.
I think the solution is simple to describe. Harder to implement. I need more material underneath and less up top. I also need to fill those holes.
Every other day I feel like I should give it a shot myself. Then I remember my 8 month old will have me up at 5AM and I really do try feel like being up at 1AM swearing in my garage. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/b3368f685d8b4790e148f96e64bc1e3d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/023d7fbfd7daa79c78eff809a1089b83.jpg)
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Here are both pics next to each other.
This is all from the heat bending the beavertail upwards. I didn't bend it purposefully.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/ca379ff2a75531545a1efbfd43de4d86.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/f494038443101225e00bc8f89deb8456.jpg)
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Take the spur off the hammer.
CZ sells some competition hammers for the CZ Tactical Sport that have no spur. I think this one only works on the TS but you get the idea.
(https://i.imgur.com/04rrxwhl.jpg)
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Take the spur off the hammer.
CZ sells some competition hammers for the CZ Tactical Sport that have no spur. I think this one only works on the TS but you get the idea.
(https://i.imgur.com/04rrxwhl.jpg)
Good suggestion. If I can avoid that I will though. Mostly personal preference.
I've made enough changes to this gun and it looks a bit like a Frankenstein at this point. One of the things I love about the race hammer is the look. Since I'm welding anyway I might as well try and make it work.
Also a little concerned about taking the weight off the hammer. I'm leaving this gun DA/SA and want to ensure that it will ignite all primers in DA with an 11# hammer spring. I don't want to have to go up in weight.
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This is all from the heat bending the beavertail upwards. I didn't bend it purposefully.
If you heat the underside of the beavertail to just below red hot and apply wet rags to the underside as it cools, it will pull it back down some. Just heat a small area in the place it was welded. May have to repeat a couple of times. I'm assuming you last welded (applied heat) to the top side last.
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Stopped by the welder's place today with a 12 pack.
Things seemed easy for him. I noticed he didn't clean anywhere near how I did. I was meticulous. He was not.
He used a #4 cup at 15cfh straight argon with the tungsten extended about 1/4" from the cup which I've never seen before. He had his machine set at 50 amps controlled by pedal. This is very similar to what I had my settings on.
Nevertheless he managed a pretty clean weld the first time.
Then we decided to weld on a piece of sheet metal under the beavertail to give it some thickness and then I'd go home and grind away.
All in, it took about an hour for him to do this. His welds were cleaner than mine. He made no mistakes. He also welded much much faster. There was no need for special cooling. With my welding, things were getting red hot.
So here are some pics of the welds and then after some grinding. I think I'm back on track.
I need to visit him again to clean up some edges and I think I'll have to regrind and then finish sand it to complete the beavertail.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/4c66753d248b563d6c93c53e4bec233d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/a24b64e7197cd7598710d9a4f1f552a0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/c7422584e1fe34c75866eeb6c50fde28.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/4cf90af922a0b19165ebeace79839b8e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/5846de60b81147f33a9ae2f115e98a29.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/9ff9abecb083736f7b3b7b5166933486.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/d1ef18b28266e25dfc826495d08de4c2.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/6ae1a73ae8befb2c17605c9d17b80a5b.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/759494d7538f419626412700f9f36456.jpg)
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Good looking bottom blend, especially with all the welding done.
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this is like watching some sort of sex change operation! O0
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Looking better each day!
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Went back to the welder today to get some small issues re-welded.
The pits were still there but better.
The piece of metal we put underneath had a seam that was showing.
I reshaped with a Dremel but forgot to take pics.
After finishing there are 3 more tiny areas to reweld yet again.
This is a bit tiring.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180419/17dbdf8f0d382ca696e8e64b1ea581f4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180419/88023d26a47e1014e0c9211e6bdbc999.jpg)
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Now we can understand why the thick factory Polycoat.
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A lot of times, as you near the end of a job/project, you're tired/frustrated and ready to move on to something new (and possibly easier) and that's normal.
Don't give up. Stick with it, get it done and you'll be happy with how it turns out.
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A lot of times, as you near the end of a job/project, you're tired/frustrated and ready to move on to something new (and possibly easier) and that's normal.
Don't give up. Stick with it, get it done and you'll be happy with how it turns out.
Yup. I have 4 more projects going on. I need to get this one done so I don't lose momentum and motivation.
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That's looking so much better, don't give up!
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What it looks like as of this morning.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180419/a6edb59a6375a6cb190bbaa79008e311.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180419/0e2168b7f9027e5b9223794f3261b4a3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180419/1c11b88255afcf3f58b8f45afa916bb6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180419/bc498e1fd4b68a3c957034e2e0ec4fa7.jpg)
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That?s looking a lot better now that you?ve got some material again to work with. Keep up the good work! Did the trigger guard fall into line?
What sort of gas were you using if not argon or helium? Were you using a blend intended more for wire feed? That would explain a lot of your pitting issues.
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Thanks for posting and sharing your experiences, looking forward to the next step in your process!
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The trigger guard area looks much better now too. He ran a few beads there. I was grinding last night. I may shoeshine it tonight and take some pics.
I run straight Argon. Nor sure what's going on there but I may just try and practice some more on plain steel stock I have laying around.
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I remember when I was a welder - if you lose gas shielding you get pits up the wazoo. Just a kink in the line or a clogged up nozzle will sink you. I mostly did mig welding. My only tig welding was in school.
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...or when one of your coworkers seems to think it?s real funny to step on your gas line!
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Shoeshined the trigger guard a bit.
It's almost done. Just some cleaning up to do.
I'm debating taking the slide and making the curve match the frame. Right now the curve starts in different places relative to where the frame is. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/3cde7405f0182636b66b6c4e71b57b25.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/4c625e82dc50403655484c12d2ba19ce.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/759337452762ca23a2e83d43c2f0d3ef.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/e5b6c6284101fef95736b6ad57455415.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/7f8f8c01a9f8154ec12327badfc48dc2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/b7ec2cf75bdd360763bae86dd3ce297d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/989f691a49c6bf395dbb83c0f172c569.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/ec6ccd0718f00f3481ca8cffdb2cf429.jpg)
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...or when one of your coworkers seems to think it?s real funny to step on your gas line!
Ha! I'd forgotten about that. Brings back memories (I may or may not have been guilty of horseplay as well).
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One of the best I?d heard of...
Guys would take a snuff can and after extinguishing an oxy-acetylene flame would fill the can with the gas to make a small but very noisy bomb when placed near an ignition source. Well, one guy did that with an empty 8 oz paper milk carton and was going to tape it underneath his buddy?s work table near where he was welding and hope it got warm or leaky enough to blow and scare the bejeezers out of him. It went off prematurely and sent shredded paper shards back into the pranksters face, leaving him with a lot of little paper cuts all over. Try to explain that one to the shop foreman who already has a pretty good idea of the shennagins at play! Obviously, it could?ve been much worse but since it was more an injury to pride we can say it was funny in retrospect. And file it under, ?kids, don?t try this at home!?.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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One of the best I?d heard of...
Guys would take a snuff can and after extinguishing an oxy-acetylene flame would fill the can with the gas to make a small but very noisy bomb when placed near an ignition source. Well, one guy did that with an empty 8 oz paper milk carton and was going to tape it underneath his buddy?s work table near where he was welding and hope it got warm or leaky enough to blow and scare the bejeezers out of him. It went off prematurely and sent shredded paper shards back into the pranksters face, leaving him with a lot of little paper cuts all over. Try to explain that one to the shop foreman who already has a pretty good idea of the shennagins at play! Obviously, it could?ve been much worse but since it was more an injury to pride we can say it was funny in retrospect. And file it under, ?kids, don?t try this at home!?.
I can relate. When I was a flame cutter operating a six-torch system, guys used to fill plastic baggies with gas and throw them under the table. When I was going to Hobart welding school, one guy filled his cross-bar (tubing) at his table with acetylene and used his striker to ignite it. Everybody in the class, including me, started running except for the little old Navy veteran sitting in front of me - and he just sat there white as a ghost - shaking. We had been talking about gas cylinders going crazy and plowing through cement walls just before the explosion...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Back at it.
I shoeshined some. More of the trigger guard. I think it's pretty much there. There is a really tiny dot on the inside of the guard. Not sure it's worth trying to fix.
The beavertail still has some depressions as well as pits but it's getting closer. I'm going to bring it back for rewelding a 3rd time. Hopefully that's it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/a6177633d41761466675e28531ad9588.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/e2607c11c0ff214189f6cddb00eca7d9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/236fb4a2c814e914a9225a9f7f5e7e65.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/9499e06240a87de04a82d3f2e93c927e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/d0700fc277edee74c2ffc479c1419cd2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/3b706d21e0be119161cdc7b1a3866508.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/e308219e92c1e413f0b19e5fb5924ce8.jpg)
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Starting to look really good!
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I'm stopping by the welders on Saturday to see if he can quickly weld this up and also to pick up another frame he is welding the beavertail on.
So maybe I can actually finish this up.
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Looking good!
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So I stopped by again today and got 4 small welds on the beavertail.
3 were on the underside where my piece of additional metal met the factory metal.
Then he welded up the top pits. One popped as he was welding so I know there are contaminants in there.
So I brought it home and started shaping it.
After I finished I still have 2 holes to fill so I have to go back again.
The good news is that I got the hammer to fit perfectly within the slide and frame. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/87867076ba25f4d82e8990a086d54349.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/91cf7b98f655d0fe436fbaf43e089bf3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/ba2fcfd7a352ae28e3ba59cfe6f9d5c3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/875957638777725094f34f66c12594f9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/0d1c8040e6640c68a4272db95ce94400.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/fcbfb5f874990b5b6cc5ccc0a2330d86.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/457f1d7e9436c3fd2b7d5758fbde8f49.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/7b28102634f8e0fa32ada19ddb6bac33.jpg)
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Cool! Almost there.
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That?s gonna look sweet!
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You?re a madman! This is a lesson in perseverance for us all... I can?t believe how good it looks after all the initial hurdles you encountered. Bravo to you sir
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm hoping to get back to the welders this weekend for what may be the last welding (on this gun)
Never short on projects though. I have a few in the works.
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Still trying to find time to make it to the welder's. I'm thankful he's patient with me.
In the meantime I figured I'd continue to work on the frame.
Given that this will go out for hard chrome I wanted to do all my polishing up front. I don't know exactly what their process is but I don't want to be wetsanding something they've already coated.
I polish:
* left and right sides of the frame where the trigger bar rides
* channel the hammer sits in
* top, side, recess of the slide rails
* area the disconnector contacts
* channel the trigger sits in (didn't get to it tonight)
My polishing obsession comes from my Tanfo Limited Pro where I was told to run an 11# hammer spring... And if I couldn't ignite every primer then it must be I didn't polish enough. It took me 2 months to finally get it to ignite everything. I was polishing the inside and outside of springs, the firing pin channel, the holes in the frame that the hammer retaining pin sat in etc. Tedious process but I learned the difference it could make. It is now my smoothest gun.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180506/d8205dcc97bd034d0699c2e9d72809c1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180506/48ac194850c5f105a72cac13988b7155.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180506/686cdfc806529f3efce6259e620b2768.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180506/57a4cba31b300413cc8b1b6d99d6ada1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180506/d31a377ab518341d546101735d8ee905.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180506/38dfeaa4518e5c09cdf9034d11d00556.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180506/4a678fdcb4520abcf2dfabeb7a7181d8.jpg)
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hard chrome is an ultra thin process according to David at CGW. Any imperfections will shine through.
What is/was the original finish? looks stainless in some areas
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hard chrome is an ultra thin process according to David at CGW. Any imperfections will shine through.
What is/was the original finish? looks stainless in some areas
It's silver. Cerakote or similar type of finish.
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not. If I do more than one gun it pays for itself.
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I can see from the picture that the hammer spur doesn't make contact with the beavertail when sitting on the sear(?)
When the slide cocks the hammer it pushes the hammer farther back/down than the notch in the sear.
Have you made sure the hammer cannot move back/down far enought to make contact with the beavertail? Better now than to find out later it's whacking all your hard work.
I put an extended/wide grip safety on my Colt stainless steel Series 80 right after I got it. Looked good, too. Till I took it shooting, came home to clean it and wondered where the gouges in the extended grip safety were coming from. I took the route of grinding enough of the spur off to prevent further contact. It I'd done that at first I'd still have a pretty grip safety.
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Yes thanks for the reminder. I did test with the slide and the pocket in the frame prevents the hammer from hitting the beavertail.
So pretty much nothing will allow the hammer to contact now. (if I tested correctly) I can see from the picture that the hammer spur doesn't make contact with the beavertail when sitting on the sear(?)
When the slide cocks the hammer it pushes the hammer farther back/down than the notch in the sear.
Have you made sure the hammer cannot move back/down far enought to make contact with the beavertail? Better now than to find out later it's whacking all your hard work.
I put an extended/wide grip safety on my Colt stainless steel Series 80 right after I got it. Looked good, too. Till I took it shooting, came home to clean it and wondered where the gouges in the extended grip safety were coming from. I took the route of grinding enough of the spur off to prevent further contact. It I'd done that at first I'd still have a pretty grip safety.
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not. If I do more than one gun it pays for itself.
Maybe you have some parts you can practice on before doing the gun? I?m really curious about how it?ll come out myself. I have thought of doing controls in hard chrome on some of my guns but never got around to looking into it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not.
Do you know what hydrogen embrittlement is?
Probably why it's a very thin process - flash chroming (single layer)?
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not.
Do you know what hydrogen embrittlement is?
I didn't. I just looked it up. What I read is that only certain metals are susceptible. Plain steel didn't seem to be that affected.
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not.
Do you know what hydrogen embrittlement is?
I didn't. I just looked it up. What I read is that only certain metals are susceptible. Plain steel didn't seem to be that affected.
100% wrong. Oh boy.
I'm trying to decipher what your implying. I'm not good at reading between the lines.
Are you saying that hard chrome isn't a good finish?
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not.
Do you know what hydrogen embrittlement is?
I didn't. I just looked it up. What I read is that only certain metals are susceptible. Plain steel didn't seem to be that affected.
100% wrong. Oh boy.
I'm trying to decipher what your implying. I'm not good at reading between the lines.
Are you saying that hard chrome isn't a good finish?
No. I'm saying that if you don't even know what hydrogren embrittlement is, or how to prevent it, then you certainly shouldn't even attempt to do hard chroming yourself. Send it to a professional.
Got it. I appreciate the advice.
I'm OK learning on this gun. That's what I've been doing this entire time. If I mess it up, I'll deal with it.
This isn't a carry piece. Not a range toy meant for beating on it. I don't even know if/when I'd shoot it. I modify for fun not because there's any practical reason.
Still undecided whether I will. My biggest concerns are around having the acid and chemical solutions in my house with 2 little kids. One day they'll find them.
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not.
Do you know what hydrogen embrittlement is?
Probably why it's a very thin process - fewer layers for hydrogen to occur?
Try again ;)
Hydrogen becomes trapped between layers of chrome. The more layers the more chance of hydrogen embrittlement.
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When I was a welder in a past life, we had to use low hydrogen rods on certain parts. The rods were kept in an oven to keep water out of the flux on the rods and the parts had to be heated up (stress relieved) before and after welding. If not heated, the welds would crack almost immediately as the welds cooled. In hard chroming, parts have to be stress relieved to allow the hydrogen to escape from between the layers of chrome after chroming. Steel parts with a RC of 40 or greater have to be stress relieved before chroming as well - I don't know the hardness of CZ gun parts, but I'm betting that at least some of them, or parts of them, are 40 RC or harder.
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not.
Do you know what hydrogen embrittlement is?
Probably why it's a very thin process - fewer layers for hydrogen to occur?
Try again ;)
Hydrogen becomes trapped between layers of chrome. The more layers the more chance of hydrogen embrittlement.
Much to learn you still have, my Padawan.
Please start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement
Well my disputatious friend, there is nothing in the wiki article that directly relates to hard chroming that I saw. I've spent over forty years in the steel industry and I am familiar with hydrogen embrittlement - what we called HCC or hydrogen corrosion cracking. While not a degreed metallurgist, I have taken a college course in metallurgy and several ASTM courses in metallurgical and heat treating concepts. I have also worked in a metallurgical lab for several years and was responsible for creating heat treating recipes for steel pipes for four years. I also taught basic metallurgy classes to heat treat employees and QC personnel (content was reviewed and accepted by a degreed metallurgist). While in college, there were no professors who would accept a wiki article as a valid source to quote...
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Now looking at buying diy hard chrome kits.
Why not.
Do you know what hydrogen embrittlement is?
I didn't. I just looked it up. What I read is that only certain metals are susceptible. Plain steel didn't seem to be that affected.
100% wrong. Oh boy.
I'm trying to decipher what your implying. I'm not good at reading between the lines.
Are you saying that hard chrome isn't a good finish?
No. I'm saying that if you don't even know what hydrogren embrittlement is, or how to prevent it, then you certainly shouldn't even attempt to do hard chroming yourself. Send it to a professional.
Got it. I appreciate the advice.
I'm OK learning on this gun. That's what I've been doing this entire time. If I mess it up, I'll deal with it.
This isn't a carry piece. Not a range toy meant for beating on it. I don't even know if/when I'd shoot it. I modify for fun not because there's any practical reason.
Still undecided whether I will. My biggest concerns are around having the acid and chemical solutions in my house with 2 little kids. One day they'll find them.
I'm betting that any DIY hard chrome kit you find will include instructions on stress relief temperatures (likely 350-degrees to 375-degrees for 3-4 hours) and preparations to prevent hydrogen embrittlement.
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Well my disputatious friend, there is nothing in the wiki article that directly relates to hard chroming that I saw.
Per the wiki:
"Susceptibility to hydrogen-induced cracking ('embrittlement') is often a result of the introduction of hydrogen during forming, coating, plating, cleaning, and finishing operations, often referred to as 'internal embrittlement'. "
Hard chrome is a plating operation.
And perhaps you missed the word "start" when I said "Please start here"... ;)
There are countless technical articles online about hard chrome and hydrogren embrittlement.
From a technical article at www.moldmakingtechnology.com:
"It also is important to keep in mind that the hydrogen embrittlement becomes more of a threat as the amount of chrome applied increases. In a build-up - one in which you are applying layers of chrome - hydrogen becomes trapped between every layer of chrome applied, thus increasing the chances of hydrogen embrittlement. In a flash chrome situation - one in which a minimal amount of chrome is applied - the probability of this problem occurring becomes less likely because the hydrogen doesn't have as many chances to embed itself within the structure."
Maybe you should stop being so pretentious and vainglorious and read some of these articles yourself...
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Well my disputatious friend, there is nothing in the wiki article that directly relates to hard chroming that I saw.
Hard chrome is a plating operation.
No kidding Sherlock.
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In hard chroming, parts have to be stress relieved to allow the hydrogen to escape from between the layers of chrome after chroming. Steel parts with a RC of 40 or greater have to be stress relieved before chroming as well - I don't know the hardness of CZ gun parts, but I'm betting that at least some of them, or parts of them, are 40 RC or harder.
Yes, hydrogen needs to be relieved from the underlying steel.
Not only just the underlying steel, but from the chrome plating as well grasshopper...
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We're here to help. Sometimes it's hard to help. But we should still be trying.
When we don't try hard enough, we should try harder.
Don't let this forum go where others have gone. It won't be much fun.
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M1A4ME speaks wisdom. Written word is tricky and we all can interpret the attempts of others to help in different ways. My helpfulness, sarcasm, and teaching has come across poorly at times. Keep in mind a great many of the members here are not only gentlemen but experienced and very intelligent. While it may not seem that way when helping them with one subject matter you?ll be surprised by their depth of knowledge in other arenas.
Trust me not only have I probably come across as a jerk, but others have made me mad at times. Let?s keep rolling on a good thread with lots of lessons - including some warnings on hard chroming.
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Back at it.
I shoeshined some. More of the trigger guard. I think it's pretty much there. There is a really tiny dot on the inside of the guard. Not sure it's worth trying to fix.
The beavertail still has some depressions as well as pits but it's getting closer. I'm going to bring it back for rewelding a 3rd time. Hopefully that's it.
I believe the plating shop will polish the gun to an almost mirror shine since hard chrome won't fill in scratches or bridge tiny voids.
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Back at it.
I shoeshined some. More of the trigger guard. I think it's pretty much there. There is a really tiny dot on the inside of the guard. Not sure it's worth trying to fix.
The beavertail still has some depressions as well as pits but it's getting closer. I'm going to bring it back for rewelding a 3rd time. Hopefully that's it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/a6177633d41761466675e28531ad9588.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/e2607c11c0ff214189f6cddb00eca7d9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/236fb4a2c814e914a9225a9f7f5e7e65.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/9499e06240a87de04a82d3f2e93c927e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/d0700fc277edee74c2ffc479c1419cd2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/3b706d21e0be119161cdc7b1a3866508.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/e308219e92c1e413f0b19e5fb5924ce8.jpg)
I believe the plating shop will polish the gun to an almost mirror shine since hard chrome won't fill in scratches or bridge tiny voids.
That's my hope. Media blast the rounds and polish the flats.
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I believe the plating shop will polish the gun to an almost mirror shine since hard chrome won't fill in scratches or bridge tiny voids.
[/quote]That's my hope. Media blast the rounds and polish the flats.
[/quote]
Do you know where you're going to have it plated?
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Do you know where you're going to have it plated?
Fords down in Florida.
I called them a few months ago and asked what sort of prep needed to be done. The told me to just send it.
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Do you know where you're going to have it plated?
Fords down in Florida.
I called them a few months ago and asked what sort of prep needed to be done. The told me to just send it.
Are you going to have the barrel plated or just the frame and slide?
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Do you know where you're going to have it plated?
Fords down in Florida.
I called them a few months ago and asked what sort of prep needed to be done. The told me to just send it.
Are you going to have the barrel plated or just the frame and slide?
My original intent was the barrel, frame, slide, 2 mag bodies with baseplates
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Do you know where you're going to have it plated?
Fords down in Florida.
I called them a few months ago and asked what sort of prep needed to be done. The told me to just send it.
Excellent choice.
Note however, that per Ford's themselves, they typically only apply hard chrome to the exterior (i.e. the "seen") areas of the gun. The internals do not get plated, nor the inside of the frame. If this is important to you, than you should discuss it with them, or alternatively choose another plater that does 100% coverage.
That's a good question. I didn't see any of that mentioned by them. I'll give them a ring when I get the gun ready.
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Any updates? Did you get all the pits ironed out?
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Any updates? Did you get all the pits ironed out?
No updates yet. A lot going on with work and home I haven't been able to see the welder or tinker with my welding setup.
Hopefully soon.
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So I think I made some major progress tonight.
Was putting my snowblower away to my shed and brushed by the welding gas line to the torch. I saw the compression fitting on the welder wiggle. Turns out I did have a gas leak and thats why none of my welds turned out well.
I tightened and got an ugly piece of mild steel. A ton more control and no contamination and popping. I'll try it on a few more pieces of similar metal just to make sure. Hopefully no more trips to the welder and I can make progress on a nightly basis now instead of weekly.
It pays to check your equipment. I should have.
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So I think I made some major progress tonight.
Was putting my snowblower away to my shed and brushed by the welding gas line to the torch. I saw the compression fitting on the welder wiggle. Turns out I did have a gas leak and thats why none of my welds turned out well.
I tightened and got an ugly piece of mild steel. A ton more control and no contamination and popping. I'll try it on a few more pieces of similar metal just to make sure. Hopefully no more trips to the welder and I can make progress on a nightly basis now instead of weekly.
It pays to check your equipment. I should have.
Things happen. Glad you found the issue.
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Some members have been messaging me with welding tips and they have been very helpful.
I successfully filled the rest of the pits tonight in just a few minutes. I hadn't lost my welding touch. I had just lost my memory regarding all the right settings :)
Some before and after. It's not perfect but if you put the rest of the gun under a microscope you'd find worse imperfections.
Before :(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/1f33babb8529310f72ea44c22ad33e44.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/b1a6a8a19b4f5fe51f7333147dc11785.jpg)
After:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/5adde7bc8eaa5d376d9e9106137f47b4.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/e22eb6f16b5850097d9e0763cad30c69.jpg)
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So after this I just need to clean up some of the edges and make sure it's nice and smooth.
Then I'll polish the internals and put in my CGW goodies (without any set screws) so I can send the gun off for hard chrome.
I think I'll do polished flats and matte rounds with 2 mags hard chromed as well.
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I'm pumped.
I welded another beavertail on another gun in a matter of minutes. No issues anymore.
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I'm pumped.
I welded another beavertail on another gun in a matter of minutes. No issues anymore.
Cool! It's looking really good.
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I'm pumped.
I welded another beavertail on another gun in a matter of minutes. No issues anymore.
good to see you got your welding mojo back
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I am so glad to hear that you got that worked out! Can?t wait to see the finished version. I?m sure that a photojournal like this in such detail is really inspirational for an awful lot of like-minded individuals and also helps to get some make a realistic assessment. Your candor throughout these projects is much appreciated. Keep up the good work!
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Yay!! Happy ending to The Beavertail Saga!
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Does anyone know how much metal prep I need to do before I send out for hard chrome?
I plan on doing matte for the rounds and polished for the flats.
When I called Fords I spoke to a lady who told me to 'just send it' but I'm a little concerned that they may call me and say 'what the h*ck did you send us?'
I took some time to clean up all my modifications to the frame. I still need to finish the magwell cleaning.
Should I go further? All of the bare areas have been hit with 220 and a Dremel flapper sanding wheel. I'd say it's probably around a 400 grit condition.
I plan on assembling the gun and polishing internal action parts before sending to Fords (without sights)
Then finishing up with set screws when I get it back. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/ab9cdd70860094b4696ddb9c176102a8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/ffc012c8687f40c79a4301fb56353e98.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/32468584c2f987b71ea54ebc6520c77d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/54fb057540931a018650f13930d0bce8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/5d63e4426f296d0ee468e6f926c120ee.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/532e12489e3feaf42c42fa22113940ec.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/3d84427c5011c35b4da091b9f11fab39.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/bb9658aa57ba36f17e97c03ba3348191.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/9e6003c3af69cc904606b029ea41f8c5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/799d3313ce000aea535133b56c3da88d.jpg)
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Pretty sure the plater will polish it up before they plate it. Are you going to send the gun in with all the internals in it? I would just send the parts you want chromed. They will have to disassemble it before chroming (which I'm sure is included in the fees) - maybe they will give you a discount if they don't have to disassemble and reassemble?
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Pretty sure the plater will polish it up before they plate it. Are you going to send the gun in with all the internals in it? I would just send the parts you want chromed. They will have to disassemble it before chroming (which I'm sure is included in the fees) - maybe they will give you a discount if they don't have to disassemble and reassemble?
I'll check back with them.
I would prefer not to send everything in but I think I read somewhere that a complete pistol was their preference.
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This pistol is going to look sweet !
Hard chrome is my favorite, I have three 1911 done with this finish (all in matte).
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Getting ahead of myself by testing out the grips and mags.
I'll need to fit the grips a bit.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/08c84ebdd899964c3acba72ff4ecfe66.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180519/21c1179bd984216c749ecd10fac095d3.jpg)
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Can't wait to see this beauty all chromed up.
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What a job! Will be looking forward to seeing the finished surfaces and final product.
Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70F using Tapatalk
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I tidied up everything I could think of tonight.
Polished the magwell, area of the frame where the barrel rides, slide rails, fpb hole, firing pin channel. I think it's good to go.
I'll call Fords on Monday but I think I'm going to send individual components in. I have them in baggies now.
I'm trying to figure out if there's anything I forgot. Consideriny sending my trigger to be polished and hard chromed.
The barrel bushing is pressed into the slide with no roll pin. Hopefully that's not an issue.
There are small components that I think I'll polish myself. The cross pin that holds the hammer, the retaining pin associated with that, the pin that holds the slide stop lever spring, back of sear cage, floating trigger pin ends etc.
1. Frame (polish flats, matte rounds)
2. Slide (polish flats, matte rounds)
3. Barrel (polish)
4. Slide stop lever (polish)
5. Safety lever (polish)
6. Mag release (polish)
7. Hammer (polish)
8. Hammer spring plug (polish)
9. Extractor (polish)
10. Magazine bodies (matte?)
11. PPD mag baseplates (matte?)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/ed1fb144483f135a98aa16d2d1eb8501.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/59e1be139fa7480f751b33f521995548.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/d0fb9a1021ab84f15268caeb99d1b1eb.jpg)
Included is my inspiration for this: a similarly finished PCR that a member of this forum owns.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/a6f2ea9991511b29f08216587d590145.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/901c84a289f68edd844364d61bb65d4d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/db049427574f77026b09b68d147711a3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/e93628b8fdd06d639d1c44914208081a.jpg)
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I can see how that inspired you.
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$105.44 bucks to ship the gun (in pieces) to Fords via Fedex priority.
That is ridiculous. Or I was just scammed.
Fedex claimed it must go overnight because it's a handgun. (Long guns do not)
Doing some reading, USPS doesn't allow handguns if you aren't an FFL.
Fedex and UPS require overnight shipping for handguns.
Oh well. I briefly considered booking a flight and driving it to them....flights are $240 :)
Now to wait 4-6 weeks for it to be finished. In the meantime I'll be polishing parts and getting everything prepped.
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$105.44 bucks to ship the gun (in pieces) to Fords via Fedex priority.
That is ridiculous. Or I was just scammed.
Fedex claimed it must go overnight because it's a handgun. (Long guns do not)
Doing some reading, USPS doesn't allow handguns if you aren't an FFL.
Fedex and UPS require overnight shipping for handguns.
Oh well. I briefly considered booking a flight and driving it to them....flights are $240 :)
Now to wait 4-6 weeks for it to be finished. In the meantime I'll be polishing parts and getting everything prepped.
I do think Federal law requires expedited shipping (2 days max I think) for hand guns, but that price seems outrageous. Some online dealers actually ship guns for free or for $20 - $30... Maybe they get special rates.
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$105.44 bucks to ship the gun (in pieces) to Fords via Fedex priority.
That is ridiculous. Or I was just scammed.
Fedex claimed it must go overnight because it's a handgun. (Long guns do not)
Doing some reading, USPS doesn't allow handguns if you aren't an FFL.
Fedex and UPS require overnight shipping for handguns.
Oh well. I briefly considered booking a flight and driving it to them....flights are $240 :)
Now to wait 4-6 weeks for it to be finished. In the meantime I'll be polishing parts and getting everything prepped.
At this point it appears money is no object because it?s a labor of love. Hoping it turns out beautiful. It?s gonna feel like Christmas all over again when it comes back lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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$105.44 bucks to ship the gun (in pieces) to Fords via Fedex priority.
That is ridiculous. Or I was just scammed.
Fedex claimed it must go overnight because it's a handgun. (Long guns do not)
Doing some reading, USPS doesn't allow handguns if you aren't an FFL.
Fedex and UPS require overnight shipping for handguns.
Oh well. I briefly considered booking a flight and driving it to them....flights are $240 :)
Now to wait 4-6 weeks for it to be finished. In the meantime I'll be polishing parts and getting everything prepped.
At this point it appears money is no object because it?s a labor of love. Hoping it turns out beautiful. It?s gonna feel like Christmas all over again when it comes back lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Paying that was like prison labor and the love I received was from Bubba when I dropped the soap.
It was actually a bit of a relief that I was sending it to the hands of someone who could turn it into something worth looking at. :)
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Some online dealers actually ship guns for free or for $20 - $30... Maybe they get special rates.
Dealers typically have an FFL.
Ya think?
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Underwhere,
Glad to see you got things worked out, a bit of an eye opening experience to say the least. One thing you showed all of us, was the potential problems you can run into when welding on a casting, pits, inclusions, cracks all can show up in the most unwanted places.. As someone pointed out, now we know why CZ sticks with the polycoat as their default finish...it covers up alot of sins.. I have an example of that on my SP-01 campact, I sent it off to CGW for some work, and part of that was to have the frame, slide barrel black nitrided, it turned out great! Looking at the right side of the frame however, I found two very small pits on the right side, near the end of the frame, just above the rail.These were on the surface, and had been covered by the polycoat..Myself I don't really care, as you really have to look to find them, the point being, when you strip off the polycoat, you may be suprised at what you find.. This could also explain why for example, stainless guns are hard to get, it could be that getting a frame cast that dosen't have any noticable flaws (pits, cracks, inclusions) may be a little more difficult than we know, after all, the stainless guns are either going to be brushed, or highly polished, so no visable flaws can be tolerated.. I did enjoy watching your journey with this pistol, and can't wait to see the results when it's assembled..
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Underwhere,
Glad to see you got things worked out, a bit of an eye opening experience to say the least. One thing you showed all of us, was the potential problems you can run into when welding on a casting, pits, inclusions, cracks all can show up in the most unwanted places.. As someone pointed out, now we know why CZ sticks with the polycoat as their default finish...it covers up alot of sins.. I have an example of that on my SP-01 campact, I sent it off to CGW for some work, and part of that was to have the frame, slide barrel black nitrided, it turned out great! Looking at the right side of the frame however, I found two very small pits on the right side, near the end of the frame, just above the rail.These were on the surface, and had been covered by the polycoat..Myself I don't really care, as you really have to look to find them, the point being, when you strip off the polycoat, you may be suprised at what you find.. This could also explain why for example, stainless guns are hard to get, it could be that getting a frame cast that dosen't have any noticable flaws (pits, cracks, inclusions) may be a little more difficult than we know, after all, the stainless guns are either going to be brushed, or highly polished, so no visable flaws can be tolerated.. I did enjoy watching your journey with this pistol, and can't wait to see the results when it's assembled..
That's a perfect summary and what I believe now as well. Why the Shadow 2 nitride is more expensive than polycoat, why there are so few stainless models etc.
I do hope that they get better with their frames. Perhaps gravity casting or some other methods to reduce the imperfections.
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Underwhere,
Glad to see you got things worked out, a bit of an eye opening experience to say the least. One thing you showed all of us, was the potential problems you can run into when welding on a casting, pits, inclusions, cracks all can show up in the most unwanted places.. As someone pointed out, now we know why CZ sticks with the polycoat as their default finish...it covers up alot of sins.. I have an example of that on my SP-01 campact, I sent it off to CGW for some work, and part of that was to have the frame, slide barrel black nitrided, it turned out great! Looking at the right side of the frame however, I found two very small pits on the right side, near the end of the frame, just above the rail.These were on the surface, and had been covered by the polycoat..Myself I don't really care, as you really have to look to find them, the point being, when you strip off the polycoat, you may be suprised at what you find.. This could also explain why for example, stainless guns are hard to get, it could be that getting a frame cast that dosen't have any noticable flaws (pits, cracks, inclusions) may be a little more difficult than we know, after all, the stainless guns are either going to be brushed, or highly polished, so no visable flaws can be tolerated.. I did enjoy watching your journey with this pistol, and can't wait to see the results when it's assembled..
That's a perfect summary and what I believe now as well. Why the Shadow 2 nitride is more expensive than polycoat, why there are so few stainless models etc.
I do hope that they get better with their frames. Perhaps gravity casting or some other methods to reduce the imperfections.
Another option would be to forge the frames, and that would solve all the problems, except that forging isn't cheap, and would add substantially to the manfacturing costs..But the flip side is, you'd have a much higher quality product.. There's no easy way out here..
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This thread is amazing! I want to put a significant trigger guard under cut on a CZ 75. Not just up, but back into the body of the frame a bit too like the Sig Legions. From what I understand, if I chose the PCR I don't have to worry about the unfortunate surprises?
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This thread is amazing! I want to put a significant trigger guard under cut on a CZ 75. Not just up, but back into the body of the frame a bit too like the Sig Legions. From what I understand, if I chose the PCR I don't have to worry about the unfortunate surprises?
No guarantees even with a forged part which can have internal forging bursts from hot or cold forging or other imperfections - some of which could have their origins in the forging stock prior to forging that either did not 'heal' or were exascerbated or propagated by the forging process. Even if nondestructive testing (NDT) is performed, most engineering specifications allow for a certain amount and/or size of imperfections to remain in the material. Specifications on surface discontinuities permissable in a part like a gun frame are usually more stringent than internal or subsurface discontinuity specifications for aesthetic reasons. A discontinuity is not necessarily a rejectable defect. There are flaws in everything - it is just a matter of acceptability or 'fitness for use'. The minor flaws uncovered by Underwhere (and others) did not harm the fitness for use of the gun, but were aesthetically unpleasing after being uncovered.
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This thread is amazing! I want to put a significant trigger guard under cut on a CZ 75. Not just up, but back into the body of the frame a bit too like the Sig Legions. From what I understand, if I chose the PCR I don't have to worry about the unfortunate surprises?
Or just do it. What fun would it be if you didn't try. :)
Make your own thread. We can grab some popcorn and follow along.
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Supersonic jet aircraft can have or develop similar flaws that show up especially as they age. Regularly scheduled Non-Destructive inspections are religiously done to find those flaws. X-Ray, RotoScan, Oil Analysis, Mag Particle and more sometimes can't detect those flaws until they become physically visible.
That a pistol sometimes has more flaws than expected is not a surprise. If CZ did a mag particle inspection on each and every frame, the OP's pistol flaws would have been seen. $$$$
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Fords finished 4 weeks ahead of schedule.
Then gun parts will be back early this coming week.
No idea what they look like.
I sent a detailed parts list and the finish I would like applied to each part.
They never called to confirm but their reputation is top notch. I'm hopeful it came out perfect.
Knowing my gun is coming back I started to polish up all my parts in preparation for assembly.
I may heat color the trigger. Considering it.
I want to make sure all the tiny parts that are exposed are polished. Slide stop spring pin that is exposed. The pin that captures the hammer pivot pin. The back of the sear cage. The rounded top of the hammer strut etc.
I still have the sear cage, firing pin block and maybe a few tiny parts left.
I also will need to fit the grips. I've never been good at that. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180603/90391eb8fbe22e5c0fb19f87ee236760.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180603/c783c75b624b9494851fa71b2d2ec228.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180603/ae472b6e167a749ea3ea09f950655798.jpg)
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Some more pics. I've finished up polishing. The only thing left is fitting the grips once the gun is back and assembled.
I also heat colored the trigger. It has an overall rust brown color to it with the tip and top of the trigger spotted with blue/red. It should match the grips and then hopefully appear to have some blue accents. If it looks ugly I can always polish it.
Pics of the exposed end of the slide stop lever spring pin.
Pics of the pin the holds the hammer cross pin in place.
I did parts of the sear cage and associated parts as well tonight.
All the parts in this bin have been polished in some way. Another bin holds the remainder of the parts for install. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180604/7a890741ac6b975a974846cd140dd923.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180604/5b15250384bce7256ae7a75617cdba8e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180604/4bf1a9dcb7d9a31a2d0662654a66a896.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180604/1b1865dff6ef5c6b22de3960a072fd67.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180604/11d52a31cf5c6553d64c2988554c0e07.jpg)
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OK it's back. Fords did a wonderful job and they packaged it very well.
The only places I found even the slightest issue is where the polished edge meets the matte finish. It's not razor sharp but it's totally fine.
The gun is very difficult to photograph.
What I noticed. The matte finish does add texture and friction. On the parts that I polished to ensure smooth action, they were noticeably more rough. Light sandpaper.
I was able to buff out some of the matte finish and bring them to mirror shine. I didn't expect to be able to. I may need to put more effort into this later.
I don't know whether Fords hard chromed first then polished or vice versa. I think that's an important tidbit to know.
There were some imperfections on the beavertail but I can live with it. Those are war wounds for me.
The trigger had some issues with travel. I barely could get the trigger to break so I took a bit off the disconnector wing and it seemed to resolve things.
The trigger is very heavy after all these Cajun parts. I need to inspect why. I was expecting a 4.5 DA and a 2.5 SA but am around 6.5 DA and 4 SA. I feel some resistance in the trigger and trigger bar. I may need to do some repolishing.
This is with the CGW pro kit.
I also had issues with the front sight and bushing fitment. I ruined a roll pin. I need to open the hole a little bit before I attempt another roll pin.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/9abc9a1a34767fcfec16c0be662cb0b3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/fb077d28cf6194230cad9c4450956c39.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/ecc76a08a31d637a8cd699c010cce6b8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/5b2f6cfc44a11fec99734ddd20b5d7ff.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/91962f4b48a66b31f118c63f455fa50b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/4117fc65b0971b504b7e8d5be98974ad.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/52ee10c1ef95b0732f0709d588f3e1e2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/121d2e40b67590b82d4ec301cdb6be29.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/ba3077f623a908f8ffc7e2d23bb6cffd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/4f40b7ab68e4e71608fb3aa3d9235dbd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/5acf9c3721909d9d8df2a16bbcd94034.jpg)
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Some more pics
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/3ac0e463cfa4ac63d2887cbd2c22fcb0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/d38393d49eab4d2cf101e0044bd8ed11.jpg)
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Wow! What a delightful contrast between the matte and the mirror finishes. Looks amazing! Hope to hear next that it is equally delightful to shoot!
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Wow! What a delightful contrast between the matte and the mirror finishes. Looks amazing! Hope to hear next that it is equally delightful to shoot!
I think I'm going to take it apart tomorrow and work over all the action parts and review the frame fitment as well. Trigger pull just seems way too heavy for a CGW pro kit.
The finish is growing on me.
Maybe someday I'll get to shoot it.
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I forgot a pic showing the trigger which appears to match the wood grips.
And for comparison sake, the original gun.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/ecbef793e8eba08d8d32324c3764e8de.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180326/a0de65b8bc415104895f32d318c69c1a.jpg)
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Nice looking finish, the whole combo with the grips looks very elegant. Interesting that the hard chrome added so much dimensionally. This little pistol project has been very educational. I really appreciate how open you've been about the entire process.
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It looks very good! I'm pretty sure the plater polishes both before and after. Although after may just be a good buffing out.
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Looks good! That is what the compacts should look like from the factory.
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All that hard work paid off , she's a beauty 8)
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I bet it looks even better in person. She?s a keeper!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I just got done reading the topic for the first time.
When I was on the first page when you were starting to talk about using a dremel, I was like "oh Lord, this is going to be another one of those bubba'd up SKS topics.
By the time I finished reading the first page, and especially seeing how well it turned out, I wanted to take a minute to congratulate you in the nice work that you did and making it your own.
Thanks. I understand the instinctive Bubba reaction. Rest assured I own not one but three dremels...so it surely would turn out well.
:)
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Congratulations and cheers!!!
How did the interior surfaces turn out (inside the frame, etc)? Were they also chromed?
Yes they did the inside as well.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180607/2868f24845ed33cab451766fe78fa3c7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180607/ec7d20fb0750b9029baf026164316cad.jpg)
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I detail stripped and repolished many components that had been hard chromed. The gun is slightly smoother now.
No effect on trigger pull. I guess I'm just used to my SA guns.
Only one item remains: drilling out the front sight hole and tapping in the roll pin. Then this gun will officially be done.
I won't bother to document that part. That would be boring.
Thanks everyone for their advice and for following along.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180607/d1090ac6e929bf50a40ef9bec26bef3b.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180607/8a395a8893ff4822503a29d4afd036e8.jpg)
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Thank you for taking us along on the ride!
I'm not surprised that there is chrome on the inside since they dip the entire part in the plating solution and I'm not aware of any common method of preferentially coating only the outside without some adhering to the inside surfaces.
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Who hard chromed it for you?
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Who hard chromed it for you?
Fords Refinishing in Florida
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Some final pics then I'm done with this thread I promise. I took some better ones. They are cross posted in the compact forum. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/8ef0ac9e318445d885d29f33fdd69b21.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/34d4906d87f1d4b55d8400fe6a04131d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/967c30a9bbad26343bd4e6af3cb5f304.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/3793130babaee93fb2fbaa4b275c38d9.jpg)
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Hi Underwhere,
Turned out pretty good. Did you try to repair the pin holes liked we discussed or did you just run out of time?
Frank
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I?ve been on the edge about getting a stainless 75b. Now I?m thinking to get the matte and have the flats polished like this. Thoughts on that?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi Underwhere,
Turned out pretty good. Did you try to repair the pin holes liked we discussed or did you just run out of time?
Frank
I didn't quite so it that way. The holes I did fix I just melted and filled normally. It worked out fine.
But as you and perhaps others mentioned, hard chrome exposes small imperfections. I left the tiniest of holes and they of course did show up. I thought they were so small no one would see them.
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I?ve been on the edge about getting a stainless 75b. Now I?m thinking to get the matte and have the flats polished like this. Thoughts on that?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The result is surprisingly similar for the polished flat hard chrome area vs polished stainless. They are almost identical.
Personally I would almost always lean towards the purchase of another gun over trying to get one gun to look/feel like another. But that's just because I have retail therapy issues.
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I?ve been on the edge about getting a stainless 75b. Now I?m thinking to get the matte and have the flats polished like this. Thoughts on that?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The result is surprisingly similar for the polished flat hard chrome area vs polished stainless. They are almost identical.
Personally I would almost always lean towards the purchase of another gun over trying to get one gun to look/feel like another. But that's just because I have retail therapy issues.
I agree I should buy both, but this two tone finish is itself perhaps the best looking option of them all!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I?ve been on the edge about getting a stainless 75b. Now I?m thinking to get the matte and have the flats polished like this. Thoughts on that?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The result is surprisingly similar for the polished flat hard chrome area vs polished stainless. They are almost identical.
Personally I would almost always lean towards the purchase of another gun over trying to get one gun to look/feel like another. But that's just because I have retail therapy issues.
I agree I should buy both, but this two tone finish is itself perhaps the best looking option of them all!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like it but it's a high maintenance finish.
I pick up the gun with a paper towel as to not leave marks.
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I?ve been on the edge about getting a stainless 75b. Now I?m thinking to get the matte and have the flats polished like this. Thoughts on that?
Polished stainless steel will easily scratch and show fingerprints. Which is fine for a safe queen that you hold with velvet gloves.
Polished hard chrome will also show fingerprints, but it is far more resistant to scratches than stainless steel.
Good to know!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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never noticed how squared off my magwell was until now. And i have been wanting to cerkote my frame. Might need to do this first