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CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZF KADET KLUB => Topic started by: k7zs on September 16, 2018, 03:09:57 PM

Title: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: k7zs on September 16, 2018, 03:09:57 PM
Hello, I am new to this group, so hope this isn't redundant, but to my chagrin, I could not find any reference to what I consider a poorly documented issue that cost me a lot of time without my gun, and lots of FTL issued with my Kadet II.

I bought first CZ about a year ago, and quickly followed with a second.  What great pistols AND rifles (455 Ultra Lux and 512 American)

I have both a 75B Omega SR in Urban Grey, and an SP-01 Tactical (plus an unfired P-09 with P-09 Kadet kit which I bought since I wanted the .22 kit, and the Kadet II was just not to be had).  BUT, I really wanted the II so it would fit both of my steel framed guns.  So, I searched and searched for, and finally found the Kadet II. Hooray!

OOPS ... My initial experience was not very good.  Lots of machining marks and rough areas on the slide surface, a mark on the slide finish, machine marks on the feed ramp ... this didn't look like a 'genuine' CZ piece.  Hmmm...   Off to the range after the filing to make it fit the black finish on the SP-01 first... RATS ... the Failure to Load was 100 percent on the first round when releasing the bolt via the slide stop.  Slingshotting would load it, then do OK for the rest of the magazine.  Put in new magazine ... you would have to slingshot it to make it load that first round ... AND, more than an occasional failure of the slide stop to stay open on the last round, causing a dry fire.  This was NOT acceptable fo a kit that cost over $400...

A call to CZ Customer service said 'the only way to help is to have you send us the kit AND the Host Gun ... and sorry to say, it will be at least 6 weeks before we can get it to a tech!'.  bleep!  Well, I did it, since something was obviously wrong ... I sent it in.  FedEx call tag came right away, but NOTHING to acknowledge they had received it, and no online status check on the RMA status ... hurry up and wait .... and wait ...  until a FedEx phone call that a package needing a signature was coming ...

Paperwork mainly said 'we adjusted the slide stop, but try different ammo' ? Say What?  This is a CZ we're talkin about! It's been said it would eat any standard and high velocity ammo ...

It did work 'better' but not flawlessly ... so started a deep research which led me to this group.

IN THE END, what surprised me, is the lack of documentation of the TWO SLIDE STOPS included in the kit!  NOTHING about which to use, I thought it was just a backup, so put the first one in that fell out of the bag.... Started to find references here to "One is for the full size steel guns, the other is for alloy frames and PCR compact'.   SO, took a CLOSE look and sure enough, one had an EVER SO SLIGHTY longer piece that catches the slide on the last shot.  THE ONE I HAD BEEN USING WAS THE LONGER ONE! I put the stop in without the slide, and sure enough, when the magazine was inserted, the short piece of the longer slide stop would hit the magazine follower, push it to the side and then the magazine would catch.  BUT, it was long enough to not reliably lift on last round, and possibly create alignment problems of the round with less than 'slingshot' pressure of the slide....

End result, with the SHORTER ONE in both the SP-01 Tactical and 75B Omega ... the slide stop has perfect 'last round' capture of the slide stop and did not put any lateral pressure on the magazine!

There is not a part number or any reference to which is which, and I think this is pretty lame for such an expensive kit from such a great company.

PLEASE, CZ, just put a reference number on it, and advise which one is to be used for which gun!!!

I did learn a lot about the mechanics of the gun and kit in the process, so not a total loss, but this caused a lot of grief and for something SO simple ...

Still a CZ Fan Boy!  Hope I can help somebody else with this post ... and maybe find out where this is documented?

-Kevin
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: k7zs on September 16, 2018, 06:46:59 PM
Just back from range, 300 rounds on both SP-01 and 75B Omega.  Not a single feed eject or hold open on last round failure (had 3 failure to fire due to ammo ... I ran good, bad, ugly stuff through it to ensure I had it all dialed in)

Further research found the 2 slide stops that are available on the CZ web store!  NO product numbers on the parts themselves. Sure would have been easy to include a 'P-01, PCR and P-06' sticker on the bag it was in ....

This is the part to use on alloy framed guns (it has longer piece to hold slide open on last round on thicker alloy frames)

SLIDE STOP KADET FOR P-01, PCR, P-06
Product Number: 0440008002
Availability: In Stock
Your Price US$35.00

This is the 'normal' part, for steel guns, but the listing does NOT list model numbers

SLIDE STOP KADET .22LR
Product Number: 0440008001
Availability: In Stock
Your Price US$35.00

Hope this helps somebody else ... at last I have the Kadet II .22 adapter working like a true CZ!

-Kevin
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: M1A4ME on September 16, 2018, 07:15:17 PM
Good info to have available.  I've been thinking about a Kadet kit for the P07, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I wonder if they have the same issues as the kits for the metal framed models?
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: DenStinett on September 16, 2018, 07:49:56 PM
Welcome to the Forum K7
Glad you found the key to the two Slide Stop issue
Just remember; the Pins on the PCR / Alloy Stop are longer than the ones on the Steel Frame Stop

Hey M1;
As for the P07
Since the P07 KADET is only for the P07, there shouldn't be an issue
You'd just use the Slide Stop that came with the P07 and that's it
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: painter on September 16, 2018, 08:25:09 PM
Did CZ stop laser engraving the steel framed Kadet slide stop  '.22lr'?

There are many threads here discussing the topic.
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: k7zs on September 16, 2018, 09:47:06 PM
Hey Painter!

Both slide stops on my Kadet II, purchased in June 2018, have the engraving  "CZ 75 Kadet  Cal .22 LR".  both dead ringers for each other, hence my little odyssey.

I also have a P-09 with P-09 Kadet... which I bought sight unseen and not sure I will shoot them ... they are both virgins, unfired.... jury out whether I like the P-09 ... my 75B and SP-01 are SO great in the hand ....

The P-09 Kadet kit just contains a single slide stop engraved ".22 LR" ... no way to mess that one up!

-K

   
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: painter on September 17, 2018, 06:29:50 AM
I'm a little confused. Were the two slide stops both actually for 22lr and were slightly different, or was one actually a PCR slide stop, and mis-marked?
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: k7zs on September 17, 2018, 05:14:26 PM
Hi Painter

In the Kadet II for the 75 series, two slide stops were included.  Markings were identical on the two, but there is a difference, with one being for the PCR and other alloy framed guns, and the other for the steel framed guns

Nothing to distinguish between the two except the length of the 'short' piece that catches the magazine follower to allow the slide to lock open on the last round.  It is about 1/16th of an inch LONGER on the PCR one to accommodate the thicker frame of the compacts!

CZ in the beginning provided only the shorter one for the 75 steel guns, and would provide the one for the PCR 'on request'.  Guess they got tired of that, and started to place BOTH in the kits.  Of course, the point of my post is that they are not labeled nor is there any documentation to tell you which one to use in your particular model. They look identical except for that very VERY slight difference in the slide catch piece!

The P-09 kit of course is specific to that gun, so only 1 slide stop provided ... a no brainer!

Hope that clears up what I was trying to point out!

-Kevin

Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: painter on September 18, 2018, 11:41:54 AM
I hadn't heard of the PCR slide stop being marked .22lr.

Now I understand the confusion.
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: JRR on September 18, 2018, 05:21:30 PM
Are you saying that when you sent it in to CZ, they didn't understand that the wrong slide stop was used?  They attempted adjusting the wrong part?

That sure sounds incompetent.  Sorry about your unnecessary journey.
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: k7zs on September 18, 2018, 11:15:59 PM
Hi JRR

No mention whatsoever of a potential problem because of the WRONG slide stop being used!  The correct slide stop was in the package I returned, and it had never been put in the gun ... not a mark on it and certainly no 'adjustments' which has to be filing??  Yes, they tried to make the PCR slide stop work in the SP-01~

So, even the technicians didn't catch it.

I'm happy now, it's really a sweet shooter ... a bit more so perhaps because I EARNED this one!

Again hope this thread gets noticed 'upstairs' at CZ and saves the 'next guy' the frustration!

-Kevin
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: sberres on September 27, 2018, 08:39:28 AM
  I need to go back now and check the ones I got with mine. Maybe it was from the advance reading that I’d been doing but I believe I was aware of the issue when I got the Kadet and either tested both slide stops or somehow or other differentiated between them. Your experience would have been very frustrating indeed!
  The differences are indeed quite subtle and it continues across a few other models as well. When I picked up an older pre-b I of course wanted to see if the Kadet would run on it. Mags were not an issue, thankfully, but the Kadet slide stop I’d been using was either locking back after every round or not at all (can’t remember at the moment). I switched to the regular stop that came with the gun and it works fine, for that one. But that wasn’t the original slide stop either, so who knows?  I guess the bottom line is that I mix and match these pins for function when running the Kadet with different hosts.  Tinker toys for big kids, I guess.
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: JPF53 on September 28, 2018, 07:23:22 PM
I just got a Kadet 2 last week,and I got lucky. I went to the range with it, and it was great, but after I read your post I took a look at the two pins, I just pick the right one by luck. Thanks for the information. Also my Kadet ran so much better than my 22/45. I’m selling the 22/45 now ( never really like the 22/45 ) 
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: sberres on October 02, 2018, 09:50:36 AM
Glad it worked out! I think there is an awful lot of that will agree that these are among the best you can get as 22lr.
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: jking11 on December 31, 2018, 12:03:30 PM
k7zs Thanks for your post.  I think I am having the same problem you did.  I have a CZ 75 B Omega I want to dedicate to the Kadet.  It has been a battle so far.  I got the gun fitted okay, but at first I was only getting about half the rounds in any magazine to fire on the first strike, so I went to a very heavy spring.  That fixed the first strike issue. 
I thought I was all set, but the next problem is that only rarely will the slide release with a new magazine when I pull it back.  I kept thinking maybe the gun needed to be broke in more.  After reading your post, I too got to playing around with the different slide stops.  It turns out I have the longer of the two in the gun.  With the slide removed, I noticed it extends well into the magazine hitting the red follower.  I swapped to the other slide stop, and it does not come close to hitting the magazine follower.  I did some work playing with the gun back together and think this may fix my issue.  I am off to the range on Wednesday, but optimistic!!!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: sberres on January 01, 2019, 08:49:47 AM
  I did a little more looking at the pre B that I typically run the Kadet on. If I use the Kadet pin that works fine with the Omega it looks like it should work just fine. It locks the slide on an empty mag and seems to cycle alright by hand.
  Firing is a different story, however. The slide locks back on empty but also at other random times through all mags. Switching back to the pin that came with this one works 100%. I have no idea where that one came from as it is not an original pre-b pin, but it works.
Title: Re: Kadet II Slide Stop(s) ... poorly documented ... my odyssey
Post by: timetofly on January 01, 2019, 09:51:23 AM
Great Information to hear.  My Kadet II came with two slide stops and I guess that I grabbed the right slide stop for my 75B, no problems at all.  Fast forward two years and the addition of a PCR and I obtained a new slide stop for free from CZ-USA.  It caught me as strange that there were no stampings to differentiate them apart.  You just solved the mystery of the second slide stop that originally came with the Kadet II.

Thank you for posting.