Second batch of .40 S&W 180 grain test loads and something weird

[M1A4ME]

1st batch was with BE86.  No issues loading them, haven't shot them yet.

Back's been pretty bad lately so I didn't do much yesterday, just trying to get some recovery in.

Went out today and loaded another 50 rounds, with the same 180 grain hollow points and AA#7/

Got all the way up to about 47 rounds (10 rounds, up the powder 0.2 grains, load 10 more, repeat, repeat).  Suddenly I got a round that felt funny when seating it.  Pulled out and took a look.  Nope, bullet didn't seat all the way.  I put it back in the shell holder, tried it again, got too scared to put even more force on it.  Pulled it out to look.  Nope, not fully seated.  Tried one more time.  No luck.

Why??  Why would a bullet not seat?  Then I suddenly wondered if I'd somehow double charged that one.  Couldn't find the bullet puller.  Looked and looked.  No luck.  Grabbed another case, primed it, charged it and seated a bullet.  50 rounds of AA#7 for the range.

Bugged the heck out of me.  How could I have double charged that one??  I metered a charge into the scale pan, put it on the scale, confirmed the weight, dropped it into the case, set the case in the shell holder in the press and metered the next charge for the scale into the pan and placed it on the scale while I put a bullet in the case in the shell holder and seated it and crimped it.  No way to double charge one like that, but that darn bullet would not seat.

It bugged me so bad I went back to looking for the bullet puller.  I finally found it.  Had a heck of a time beating that bullet out of the case.  Weighed the charge.  Nope.  No double charge.  Why wouldn't the bullet seat?? 

Got the little flashlight and looked inside the case and couldn't see any reason.  Weighed the bullet and it's 180 grains.  Didn't measure the length yet but I'll bet it's not "too long."

Just never had that happen before.  Bullets always seat to the proper depth.  Gave up looking harder/longer and came in to rest my back. 

First time for everything.

[Wobbly]

Well, you didn't pull the bullet yet so you don't know for sure it was a double charge. Could be one of those cases with a stepped interior. Could be a big piece of corn cob media in there. Could be a deformed bullet. Let's not jump to conclusions.

[M1A4ME]

Sorry, I did pull the bullet.  Standard charge in it, nothing in the bottom of the kinetic puller but the bullet and powder.

Did forget to mention all the cases were nickel plated Winchester cases.

Tomorrow, when I can see better, feel better and get out the tools I'll do some measuring on the case.  It's sitting on the bench.

I need to remember to measure the bullet diameter, too.  180 grain hollow points from Everglades. 

I didn't see an inside step with the flashlight, but I'm going to get a little bit brighter light and also try to remember to weigh the case and compare it to other similar cases.

Something going on.

[Dan_69GTX]

I'm sure you did - but did you verify it is a .40 case?

[M1A4ME]

Yeah, separated/sorted, vibro/walnut shell cleaned, deprimed/belled Winchester nickel plated cases (looks pretty with those big hollow points.)

Got some measurements.  I don't see anything weird except:

seated/pulled bullet is shorter now (I don't know if that was from me pressing harder to get it to seat or from smacking it's nose in the bottom of the bullet puller when it came out)

case mouth is cracked (again, don't know if that was from trying to seat the bullet or not)  Usually I can feel a cracked case mouth during the case mouth expanding/belling stage (single stage press) because it's so easy and doesn't make the same noise.

Bullet info

bullet that wouldn't seat          fresh bullet out of the bag
0.3995"                                      0.3995"                        diameter
0.6140"                                      0.6185"                         height
180.1                                          179.9                           grains in weight

Nothing odd but the hard to seat bullet was shorter for the possible reasons listed.  You can see some squashing/damage to the lead/jacket around the petals/creases in the hollow point, too.

case info
 
case from problem round              case from the jug waiting to be belled/primed/loaded
0.4205"                                          0.4225"                                                                  diameter at the bottom of the case
0.4190"                                          0.4165"                                                                  diameter in the middle of the case
0.4160"                                          0.4170"                                                                  diameter at the case mouth

case from the problem round        case from the jug waiting to be belled/primed/loaded
0.6578"                                          0.6450"                                                                  average of 4 measured lip to inside bottom of case

Used the stem of the micrometer inserted into the case and the case pushed towards the micrometer till the case mouth contacted the micrometer for this one.

case from the problem round        case from the jug waiting to be belled/primed/loaded
0.3595"                                          0.3930"                                                                  inside diameter near the bottom of the case
0.3945"                                          0.3930"                                                                  inside diameter near the middle of the case
0.3975"                                          0.3980"                                                                  inside diameter near the case mouth

The internal diameter was measured using the calipers at the tip (top), middle (middle), and as far in as they'd go (bottom) of the area/part used for ID measurements.  Not saying it's perfect, but an eyeball type distance into the case measurement for the top/middle numbers.

As borne out by the measurements, there is no visible or measureable ledge/shoulder down in the case like some 9MM cases have.

One more thing.  I've had the short little 135 grain hollow points tip a little sideways during seating if I wasn't careful when setting them in the case mouth and started the seating step.  You can tell the bullet tried to tip sideways by the appearance of the case as it bulges to one side before the bullet straightens back out again.

This case showed no bulge when I pulled it out of the die, either time I tried seating it.  But it did crack a little at the case mouth.

Still not sure what happened.

[tdogg]

The case isn't magnetic is it?   I have not heard of any nickel plated steel but I wouldn't be all that surprised.

Cheers,
Toby

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[noylj]

If your bullet was not seating deep enough, it might be because thew bullet is simply shorter so it couldn't be pushed down further at the correct seating die setting.
So, what would keep a bullet from seating deeper, if we allow the seating stem to be set deeper in the die body?
1) A shelf/cannelure in the case that stops the bullet
2) Some foreign matter in the case that stops the bullet
3) Over charged case is not an issue as most powders are fairly easily compressed and you do, of course, inspect EVERY charged case to verify approximate height of powder before placing a bullet on the charged case.
4) wrong case or exceptionally short case where the proper COL LOOKS like the bullet wasn't seated deep enough.
5) A similar, but different style bullet, got into the box and it simply has a different OAL and ogive curve and doesn't seat the same.
After that, all that controls seating depth is position of the seating stem and the shell holder/plate and the user actually fully cycling the press and the die being tightly locked down so it can't move while reloading

[M1A4ME]

The case isn't magnetic is it?   I have not heard of any nickel plated steel but I wouldn't be all that surprised.

Cheers,
Toby

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Didn't check that.  It's a Winchester case.  But who knows?  I'll try to remember to check it when I go out with the dogs later this morning.

[M1A4ME]

If your bullet was not seating deep enough, it might be because thew bullet is simply shorter so it couldn't be pushed down further at the correct seating die setting.
So, what would keep a bullet from seating deeper, if we allow the seating stem to be set deeper in the die body?
1) A shelf/cannelure in the case that stops the bullet
2) Some foreign matter in the case that stops the bullet
3) Over charged case is not an issue as most powders are fairly easily compressed and you do, of course, inspect EVERY charged case to verify approximate height of powder before placing a bullet on the charged case.
4) wrong case or exceptionally short case where the proper COL LOOKS like the bullet wasn't seated deep enough.
5) A similar, but different style bullet, got into the box and it simply has a different OAL and ogive curve and doesn't seat the same.
After that, all that controls seating depth is position of the seating stem and the shell holder/plate and the user actually fully cycling the press and the die being tightly locked down so it can't move while reloading

1.  No shelf/cannelure in the case
2.  nothing in the case but powder when I pulled the bullet
3.  powder in the case was the intended charge weight (weighed it after the bullet was pulled.)
4.  Set nose down in the tray it was obvious the overall length was longer as the base/rim stuck up above the rest and was easy to see that.
5.  I use a single stage method of loading and the bullets are in my hand/fingers prior to setting them in the case mouth.  After the bullet was pulled I weighed it and it was a 180 grain bullet.  The nose shows some damage (bullet is actually slightly shorter) but I can't say if that's from the seating stem trying to force the bullet further into the case or from the kinetic bullet puller when the bullet was hammered out of the case and struck the inside of the bullet puller.

Usually, if I manage to either miss a cracked case mouth or the case mouth cracks on bullet seating or crimping the bullet is loose in the case.  Easily pushes in and easy to get out.  When I started beating the kinetic pulled it was on a piece of pine 2X6 I had by the bench.  I beat that board silly and didn't budge that bullet.  I took it outside and it took 4 pretty good smacks on a concrete patio block to knock that bullet out of the case.  It was very well stuck in the case mouth/neck/body.

[M1A4ME]

Just checked.

Case is not magnetic.

Case length

damaged/problem case - 0.8470"
1 more case from the jug - 0.8460"
2nd case from the jug - 0.8465"
3rd case from the jug - 0.8500"

So the problem case wasn't really longer, long enough, to cause the issue.  Not sure what the case length for a .40 S&W should be.  Can't really remember measuring too many straight wall cases.