Wow...so I guess I can shoot this in IDPA carry optics......

[MoRivera]

Now this is a gun I set up for steel/plate shooting and then some USPSA Limited without the optic and in .40 S&W.  Never did I think I'd be able to shoot it legally in IDPA.  Use it with a 9mm barrel for 9mm, obviously.  It is double-action but I only shoot in SA, just kept the same trigger as my regular SP01 Shadow for consistency in SA feel.  I have measured this in the IDPA box before and it fits even with the mag well and magazine base pad.  I can just remove the thumb rest too.  What I didn't quite expect was its weight with unloaded mag.......



...for some reason I thought it be over 45 oz. like a Shadow 2, but there it is....43. This was weighed four or five times, zero checked each time.  I also just realized that for Carry Optics, the gun must conform to ESP...I thought it was SSP only.  So...by definition of IDPA rules, I'm allowed to shoot this for carry optics!  Who knew?


ETA: Its the magazine release pad allowed?  That may be the kicker.

[Raining_Brass]

Not with a magwell you aren't.

[recoilguy]

Nice looking gun Mo!!!!

RCG

[MoRivera]

Not with a magwell you aren't.

Aren't magwells allowed in IDPA ESP?  Maybe I should have clarified I was only referring to IDPA, not USPSA, my bad.

Permitted in ESP:

1. Slides may be machined to accept different style sights, but still have to be notch and post type.
2. Robar-style grip reductions
3. Replace the barrel and use a stock or non-stock caliber.
4. Aftermarket triggers with visible over travel stops
5. Checkering, serrating, and stippling the frame
6. Extended and/or ambi-safety and beavertail grip safety
7. Grip tang extensions or beavertail
8. Heavy or cone style barrels less than 4.25”
9. Slide inserts for different recoil assemblies
10. Magwell mods or add on magwells
11. Slides with front cocking serrations, tri-top, carry melts, and high power cuts
12. After market safeties along with Swenson style thumb shields and frame mounted thumb shields.
13. Aftermarket magazine base pads may be used and magazine base pads may be modified by reshaping,
texturing, or adding bumper pads if they do not make the magazine weight more than 1.50 oz. over the same capacity factory magazine. Magazines that are longer than stock may be used provided they meet all other division requirements


Excluded or not allowed in ESP are:

1. Steel dust covers and rails over 3.25” (82.6 mm) (as measured from the rear of the slide stop pin to the most forward portion of the dust cover or rail) are not permitted.
2. Removal of material from the exterior of the slide other than front cocking serrations, tri-top, engraving, carry melts, and high power cuts.
3. Trigger shoes.
4. Disabling the slide stop.

Even if it wasn't I could easily remove it and use normal grips.  But I know I've seen ESP shooters with magwells.  Just not in USPSA Production or Carry Optics.  But I'm not even interested shooting this in that, because I don't want to start double action.  It's not very reliable in this configuration with this slide, so I shoot it SA only.

ETA: But now looking at that excluded part where it says:

2. Removal of material from the exterior of the slide other than front cocking serrations, tri-top, engraving, carry melts, and high power cuts.

That might be the real kicker right there because material obviously had to be removed for the optic, if that counts.  But then the same had to be done for my regular Shadow with optic cut, and that qualifies just fine.

ETA 2:  After some checking, it seems that more recent 'provisional' rules for Carry Optics allow specifically for the optic milling.  GTG!

[Vinny]

Carry Optics is really growing in both USPSA and IDPA.
I Love it!

[1steelshooter]

Don't you have to start double action with carry optics that's da/sa? I don't shoot idpa so I don't know.

[Raining_Brass]

Not with a magwell you aren't.

Aren't magwells allowed in IDPA ESP?  Maybe I should have clarified I was only referring to IDPA, not USPSA, my bad.

Permitted in ESP:

1. Slides may be machined to accept different style sights, but still have to be notch and post type.
2. Robar-style grip reductions
3. Replace the barrel and use a stock or non-stock caliber.
4. Aftermarket triggers with visible over travel stops
5. Checkering, serrating, and stippling the frame
6. Extended and/or ambi-safety and beavertail grip safety
7. Grip tang extensions or beavertail
8. Heavy or cone style barrels less than 4.25”
9. Slide inserts for different recoil assemblies
10. Magwell mods or add on magwells
11. Slides with front cocking serrations, tri-top, carry melts, and high power cuts
12. After market safeties along with Swenson style thumb shields and frame mounted thumb shields.
13. Aftermarket magazine base pads may be used and magazine base pads may be modified by reshaping,
texturing, or adding bumper pads if they do not make the magazine weight more than 1.50 oz. over the same capacity factory magazine. Magazines that are longer than stock may be used provided they meet all other division requirements


Excluded or not allowed in ESP are:

1. Steel dust covers and rails over 3.25” (82.6 mm) (as measured from the rear of the slide stop pin to the most forward portion of the dust cover or rail) are not permitted.
2. Removal of material from the exterior of the slide other than front cocking serrations, tri-top, engraving, carry melts, and high power cuts.
3. Trigger shoes.
4. Disabling the slide stop.

Even if it wasn't I could easily remove it and use normal grips.  But I know I've seen ESP shooters with magwells.  Just not in USPSA Production or Carry Optics.  But I'm not even interested shooting this in that, because I don't want to start double action.  It's not very reliable in this configuration with this slide, so I shoot it SA only.

ETA: But now looking at that excluded part where it says:

2. Removal of material from the exterior of the slide other than front cocking serrations, tri-top, engraving, carry melts, and high power cuts.

That might be the real kicker right there because material obviously had to be removed for the optic, if that counts.  But then the same had to be done for my regular Shadow with optic cut, and that qualifies just fine.

ETA 2:  After some checking, it seems that more recent 'provisional' rules for Carry Optics allow specifically for the optic milling.  GTG!

I don't know. When someone says Carry Optics I just think USPSA. Doesn't seem like as many people shoot IDPA. At least not local to me.

[MoRivera]

I don't know. When someone says Carry Optics I just think USPSA. Doesn't seem like as many people shoot IDPA. At least not local to me.

Yeah, in my state it's kinda' reversed.  Much more IDPA than USPSA.  Maybe because our state has a 10-rd magazine limit.  But yes, according to the current IDPA Carry Optics division rules, this gun qualifies as legal (without thumb rest).  Frankly, it's a bit unwieldy for IDPA with shooting around cover etc., but I might run it at a local match.  The bigger surprise for me was that CO in IDPA conforms with ESP gun rules, so we can start cocked n' locked, which I can also do with my dot-equipped Shadow 1.  I thought it was more like USPSA CO, which has to start DA/hammer down like in Production. 

That's why when I saw some guys running like a Glock 34 with red dot and mag well in local IDPA matches, I thought they were just for 'Not For Score' and guys just shooting them for fun, but no they're good to go for carry optics.

Don't you have to start double action with carry optics that's da/sa? I don't shoot idpa so I don't know.

In USPSA yes, and the gun has to conform to Production specs.  But in IDPA Carry Optics, the gun has to conform to Enhanced Service Pistol/ESP (like Limited 10 in USPSA), for which you can have a SAO gun or start a safety-equipped gun like a CZ SP01 single action/cocked n' locked....hence why you can also have a mag well on a CO gun in IDPA.  I sometimes shoot my Sig P226 Legion SAO in ESP, as opposed to Standard Service Pistol/SSP which has to be either DA or striker-fired for first shot, like USPSA Production.

[Earl Keese]

Odd that IDPA is so relaxed with their equipment rules for CO. They still don't allow drop hangers for holsters, correct?

[MoRivera]

Yeah as far as I know it's still holsters up on belt that are 'concealable'.

[Earl Keese]

Yeah as far as I know it's still holsters up on belt that are 'concealable'.

That long slide will be "fun" to draw then. . .

[MoRivera]

Yeah as far as I know it's still holsters up on belt that are 'concealable'.

That long slide will be "fun" to draw then. . .

I've done it before with a Bladetech holster that has an open end.  It draws fine, again not really any different than say a Glock 34.