147gr moving at 1000fps

[Wobbly]

My nephew has been sworn in as a LEO in a new county. He has to drive about 45 min to practice on that county's range, so he prefers driving the 1 min to my house. In his previous position the county used 40 cal, now the new location uses 9mm... which is underscoring the need for practice. So I need to build practice ammo which mimics the 147gr Federal SD loads he carries on the job. I looked it up and they are rated at 1000fps.

I purchased 147gr RMR conical FP "Match Winners" and they arrived today. His practice weapon is not a CZ and has adequate freebore to make these work.

I don't do much with 147gr, and the little that was done was with plated down in the 800fps zone. So I'm hoping someone has knowledge in the area of building high speed 147gr loads. Powders, primers, cartridge building techniques, hints, etc.

Any guidance truly appreciated.   

[HughB]

BE-86 seems like a good powder to investigate based upon comments in the following threads.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/147gr-jhp-at-1-000fps.864420/

This thread contains info that suggests BE-86 is the propellant in HST factory loads, based upon pull downs.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/147-rn-rmr-and-be-86.1679111/print

Note - I have no personal experience with this powder with this bullet. I have used BE-86 in other calibers and it has delivered top velocities. You may want to research Silhouette powder load data as well.

[Wobbly]

Thanks HughB.

After I posted that, I went down and looked at books and web sites to see what load data noted velocities that high on 147gr. BE-86 and N340 were the two powders I had in volume that could accomplish this.

Then I loaded some brass to look at Min OAL figures and looked at the available volumes inside the case. Followed that up with pouring volumes of both powders into empty cases to look at the space requirements.

It looks like BE-86 will be the first to get tested.

[HughB]

You are welcome. Sounds like you are set.

[George16]

When I was testing RMR reloading 147 RNFP, I used sport pistol And Win 231 since these are the powders I have on hand. I got an ave of 1020 FPS with 4.3-4.4 Gr of ASP with an OAL of 1.125” . For win 231, I used 4.4 Gr @1.130 OAL to get 1008 ave FPS. These were all shot using my TSO which has a 5.4” barrel.

I never shot these in competition but I did with the 3.45 ASP load which yielded an ave FPS of 946.

Brass used were all once fired S&B (same brass I used for Major PF), Winchester small Pistol primers and loaded using my Dillon 650.

[Bossgobbler]

If you have some N330 give it a try. 4.0gr - 4.3gr

[Wobbly]

If you have some N330 give it a try. 4.0gr - 4.3gr

I saw the stats on N330. It does look good.

[jwc007]

Way back when the 147 grain bullets were being touted as the end all be all solution to 9mm stopping power, I experimented with HS-6/W540, Unique, and Blue Dot, the latter two then made by Hercules which later became Alliant.  While all three powders performed well, HS-6 proved to be my favorite, and reached 1000 fps, but I backed the loading down to 950 fps.  My test Pistols were a Pre-B Cz75 and Taurus PT92.

Bullets used were either the 147 grain Hornady XTP or the 147 grain Zero JHP.  The Zero 147 grain JHP Bullet was of such poor quality that I never bought any more bullets from them.
I experienced vertical stringing with the Pre-B Cz75 and wound up using up the 147 grain Bullets exclusively in the Taurus PT92.
Went back to shooting mostly 124 grain Bullets in my 9mm Pistols.

You might want to chronograph some of that issue ammunition out of your nephews Duty Pistol and see what it actually runs at, before trying to duplicate a practice load.

[Wobbly]

Thanks for all the great feedback, guys.   

[Joe L]

Wobbly--I thought I would share some 147 gr experience from Wednesday.  I accidentally picked up a box of Atlanta Arms 900 fps 147 gr 9mm ammo when I was testing the P-10S at 100 yards.  I shot 10 rounds using the same holdover as I had used previously (for the 115gr JHP).  When I walked out to the target, all I saw were a few paper tears and oblong holes very low on the backer. 

I knew something was wrong but didn't consider the ammo choice at first, went back and shot another 10 rounds, same result.  Went back to the bench and started checking ammo boxes, sure enough, the box I had opened was the 147.  Switched to my usual 115 JHP and all was fine again. 

I think the short barrel gun was lobbing the 147 gr bullets at 700-800 fps, and they never stabilized, judging by the number of keyholes that actually showed up on the target backer.  I'll never make that mistake again.    The same ammo runs fine in 4.5" and 5" 9mm pistols, just not as well for me as the 115 in my CZ's.  I underestimated the effect of another inch of barrel length.  The 115 apparently reaches at least 1050 fps even out of a 3.5" barrel with whatever powder Atlanta Arms is using. 

Joe

[Wobbly]

The 147gr was chosen by the Sheriff's Department, not me or the nephew. Long range stats are expected to be mediocre, but the choice of bullet weight is out of my hands. Typical engagements in this county tend to be at 10 yards.


Interestingly, he reported to me that 2 engagements where shots were fired, Hornady Critical Defense failed to penetrate. One, a 40 cal, was 'return fire' by him at a perp about 30 yards away. The shot entered the perp's scalp at the rear, and circumnavigated the head between the skull and scalp. However, the shot did knock him to the ground where he was cuffed and arrested. The perp had a huge headache and spend several hours in the hospital to remove the slug from his forehead.

Second shot (caliber unknown) was at a perp leaving the scene in a neighboring county. Shot was fired at close range, 4 to 5 yards through a closed car window. Same thing happened. Bullet entered the scalp and due to the angle, raced around the cranium under the scalp.

Neither county sheriff's department now use Hornady ammo.

 

[Joe L]

As long as the issued firearm is 4.5" or longer, there shouldn't be a problem.  I am pretty sure YOU can match whatever the issue ammo characteristics are!   (I couldn't!!)

I was just surprised at the results I got with the 3.5" barrel pistol, admittedly with a soft load to start with.  With a hot load I may have been OK even with the 147 in the small gun.

Joe

[newageroman]

Here is a data row from my master load sheet using 147 XTPs and my new fav Sport Pistol - Estimated Vel of ~950 (before chrono) -
lot:02-16-2020-01   
9mm
XTP   Horn   145
Sport Pistol   3.5
vel ~   949
FedSP
mixed brass
COAL 1.100"
loaded on:   650
Notes - Sub - using 145 gr Acme RN-NLG coated from Alliant load data   

I would think if you get the same grain/vel you will be close.

[Wobbly]

His G23 has a drop-in KKM barrel and I'm waiting to get possession of the firearm to work out the OAL and start ammo testing. Do not hold your breath ! This 29yo, between starting a new job, running a side business, having a wife and 1yo daughter, has 314 more important things to focus on.

This part could take a while.