P10F Trigger Graphs - Stock vs Polish vs CGW

[Joe L]

earlan357--Thank you for the detailed and intriguing explanation.  I had forgotten that the trigger springs and bar combination worked backwards from what we are used to with a hammer gun.  Obviously, I haven't had a P-10 apart in a few months.  And I'm old. 

I just got home from shooting my P-10F for the first time in a month.  I had to zero a new Holosun 507C sight and adapter plate from CZC.  (5 rounds of Rem UMC and then 15 rounds of AA 115 JHP at 25 yards standing single hand and I was done.)  This pistol has the initial striker from CGW, some polishing, and a Glock (Wolff) 4# striker spring and retainers.  The trigger pull matches my needs almost perfectly for a bullseye gun--a predictable wall followed by a smooth displacement to break at about the same pressure.  I'm thinking some folks would say my trigger has too much creep and is not crisp enough for them.  For me, it is pretty good.  I could probably live with a little less total pull weight, but the trigger movement to break after the wall seems about perfect to me for bullseye.  I shot the P-10F very well this morning, considering I was coming off the P-10S factory trigger, which was predictably kind of painful after 50 rounds.

I'll have the P-10S apart later this week for the CGW parts, Glock spring and retainers, and some polishing, then I'll shoot it at 100 yards.  I may shoot the P-10F at 100 during the same session just for comparison. 

Keep up the excellent work. 

Joe

[schmeky]

We are developing new springs for the trigger bar return.  We had some initial samples made heavier than the stock springs.  The first sample was actually to heavy.

We then used the stock springs and the initial sample, heavier spring to dial in the calculated correct spring rate.  We should have these in within the next week.

If these work, we anticipate some really great pull weights in the 3.00 - 3.25# range when combined with our 10320 striker and spring.  This would be ideal for competition and hard core range use. 

[earlan357]

Managed to get the 4# Glock spring working with my trigger return springs.  It was failing to reset when letting the trigger out slowly.  Had to clean up some roughness in the striker channel, then dry-fired non-stop in front of the TV for about 2 hours before I took some readings.  Also mapped the difference between an empty gun and having a few (dummy) rounds in the mag.  Spring pressure from the magazine holds the slide/striker in its highest position.  More consistent readings and minimum creep.  I used to load 10 rounds when shooting 10 rounds strings at 25 yard B-8's, or 5 rounds when zeroing.  Not sure if that's why my last few rounds always give me the most problems, but I'll be loading my mags to capacity now.

IG Video of trigger:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2k4IJaASfb/

[earlan357]

We are developing new springs for the trigger bar return.  We had some initial samples made heavier than the stock springs.  The first sample was actually to heavy.

We then used the stock springs and the initial sample, heavier spring to dial in the calculated correct spring rate.  We should have these in within the next week.

If these work, we anticipate some really great pull weights in the 3.00 - 3.25# range when combined with our 10320 striker and spring.  This would be ideal for competition and hard core range use.

Awesome!  Yeah there isn't a lot of space to work with in the P10 trigger housing.  Wire diameter is limited since it has to fit in the holes on the trigger bar (unless you drill them out), OD is limited by the width of the spring channels, ID is limited since it has to fit over the crosspin, and free length is limited since it needs to have some preload, but the short coil stack is is easy to over stretch.  I noticed my heavier spring really amplifies any friction between the trigger bar and disconnector ramp.  Those surfaces need to be mirror smooth.  I'm curious to see if you went with machine hooks or loops for the spring ends.

One thing I realized is that by increasing the trigger spring weight, due to the angle between trigger bar spring mounts and the cross pin, nearly half of the extra energy is going into the vertical vector.  A custom trigger bar with spring mounts that were raised to the correct level, would restore the vertical force to OEM, and redistribute more of the spring's pulling power to the horizontal vector.  Coupled with less force fighting the trigger bar as it rides down the disconnector ramp, it would really drop the break weight as well as the pre-travel weight to a lesser extent.

I've only just started diving into striker springs, but my hunch is to run a loooong spring with a low rate.  Lots of preload to pop primers, and a thinner diameter wire to minimize weight increase as the striker loads up. 

[Joe L]

I'll send money if you guys send parts...
Joe

[aflevine]

We are developing new springs for the trigger bar return.  We had some initial samples made heavier than the stock springs.  The first sample was actually to heavy.

We then used the stock springs and the initial sample, heavier spring to dial in the calculated correct spring rate.  We should have these in within the next week.

If these work, we anticipate some really great pull weights in the 3.00 - 3.25# range when combined with our 10320 striker and spring.  This would be ideal for competition and hard core range use.

You have my upper in for milling.  Curious how the new spring and striker will compare to the 3.5# from the HBI kit now installed?

[mountaineering]

i've been subscribed to your youtube channel for a while, its been quiet for a while, would like to see more on youtube, on the p10 and the p07/09 series, and anything else that interests you.

[schmeky]

Right now we are using the proven Wolff 4.5# striker spring in our 10320 kit.  Springs alone were not the answer for an improved break in the P-10 series. 

We are fanatical about reliability, it simply has to go "bang" every time, and we have only had strong primer hits so far with the 10320. 

What many have over looked with our striker is the primer end.  We did a mold casting of the slides striker internals and machined in a radii to give the CGW 10320 striker a better "hit" into the primer when lighter striker springs are used.

[Joe L]

Right now we are using the proven Wolff 4.5# striker spring in our 10320 kit.  Springs alone were not the answer for an improved break in the P-10 series. 
We are fanatical about reliability, it simply has to go "bang" every time, and we have only had strong primer hits so far with the 10320. 
What many have over looked with our striker is the primer end.  We did a mold casting of the slides striker internals and machined in a radii to give the CGW 10320 striker a better "hit" into the primer when lighter striker springs are used.

I have the 10300 striker in 3 pistols now with 4# striker springs and haven't had a single misfire.  I'm concluding this improved tip is one reason why.  Thanks, Schmeky.

Joe

[dylphill85]

Who did the stipple work?

[earlan357]

Who did the stipple work?

https://www.macdefenseindustries.com/online-store

Here's some work he did on my Glock frames.
http://minivandoorgunner.blogspot.com/2018/09/mac-defense-industries-custom-frame-work.html