Sport Pistol & 231 similiarities?

[WNCRob]

I have read in a few forums that the same charge of either Sport Pistol or 231 produce very similar measured results.  Any validity to this?

[Wobbly]

Since data for both is readily available, why would you even want to go there ?

If Safety is the first and foremost observation while reloading, why would you want this nugget in your head ?

Lastly, since data is readily available for both, this is something you can look up yourself.

[WNCRob]

Well, that is not where I was hoping to go with this.  Alliant only lists maximum loads, and I want to use Sport Pistol for some intermediate loads that I have historically used with 231 and have a lot of personal chrono'ed data on.  Just looking to see if there is a reasonable short cut to begin testing with SP at or near desired velocities...that is why I asked the question.

[painter]

Well, that is not where I was hoping to go with this.  Alliant only lists maximum loads, and I want to use Sport Pistol for some intermediate loads that I have historically used with 231 and have a lot of personal chrono'ed data on.  Just looking to see if there is a reasonable short cut to begin testing with SP at or near desired velocities...that is why I asked the question.

Reduce the Alliant max load by 10% and you'll have the starting load.

[anonymouscuban]

I just got done with 2 pounds of Sport Pistol. Was loading Win 231 before that and now again. Same bullet, primers, OAL, pistol and same charge weight. Here is my load data. Shot out of my CZ SP-01 manual safety pistol. Infer from it what you'd like.

Load Parameters
124 gr FMJ RMR TCFP Matchwinner
Fiocchi Small Pistol Primer
Mixed Brass
1.10 OAL
4.4 gr charge weight

Winchester 231
1082 Avg FPS
1066 Min FPS
1101 Max FPS
15 STD
134 PF

Sport Pistol
1091 Avg FPS
1058 Min FPS
1118 Max FPS
38 STD
135 PF

Observations
Win 231 seems to have a tad bit more pop to me. Don't know if it cycles the gun any faster though. I didn't really notice coming back on sights faster. Accuracy is about the same but I shoot the 231 just a little better. Groups more consistent and tighter at 25 yards. Can get all 10 shots in the head box of a USPSA target with about half in the A zone at a good tick. Maybe 0.6 second splits. Neither are smoky shooting FMJ. However, choo choo train level smoke shooting either with coated bullets. Neither is objectionably dirty.

HTH

[George16]

I started with N320 then Win 231 until Sport Pistol became so popular with competition shooters. I already used up almost 16# of sport pistol for the past year and a half. It’s cleaner and cheaper compared to Win231 and N320 (used a 4# jug until it became difficult to source it).

Heres my USPSA load with 4.1 Gr of Win231, 124 Gr PD JHP, 1.120-1.125” OAL, WSPP, S & B brass
1033
1040
1034
1036
1031
1049
1041
1054
1028
1028
1054 - HI
1028 - LO
1037 - AVE
26    - ES
8      - SD
128.58 - PF

Here’s the data or sport pistol using the same powder weight, bullet, OAL, primers and cases.
1025
1033
1040
1054
1023
1054 - HI
1023 - LO
1035 - AVE
31    - ES 
12    - SD
128.34 - PF

[anonymouscuban]

I started with N320 then Win 231 until Sport Pistol became so popular with competition shooters. I already used up almost 16# of sport pistol for the past year and a half. It’s cleaner and cheaper compared to Win231 and N320 (used a 4# jug until it became difficult to source it).

Heres my USPSA load with Win231, 124 Gr PD JHP, 1.120-1.125” OAL, WSPP, S & B brass
1033
1040
1034
1036
1031
1049
1041
1054
1028
1028
1054 - HI
1028 - LO
1037 - AVE
26    - ES
8      - SD
128.58 - PF

Here’s the data or sport pistol using the same bullet, OAL, primers and cases.
1025
1033
1040
1054
1023
1054 - HI
1023 - LO
1035 - AVE
31    - ES 
12    - SD
128.34 - PF

What was the charge weight?

You didn't list it.

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[George16]

What was the charge weight?

You didn't list it. 

Added powder weight. Thanks for the reminder.

[Earl Keese]

Why not just load up some rounds and do some ladder testing with Sport Pistol? It doesn't take that long to get the data for your specific pistol.

[Wobbly]

Well, that is not where I was hoping to go with this.  Alliant only lists maximum loads, and I want to use Sport Pistol for some intermediate loads that I have historically used with 231 and have a lot of personal chrono'ed data on.  Just looking to see if there is a reasonable short cut to begin testing with SP at or near desired velocities...that is why I asked the question.

• Yes, there is. Look in the Directory stickie at the top of the forum.

• What I'm trying to point out is that this comparison between 231 and SP is not "special" information. 231 was the best selling powder for several decades. Of course competing powder companies are going to develop powders that do that same job, but better. Alliant simply seems to have "nailed it". So there is nothing new or curious about the 2 powders being similar in burn rate. Lots of competing powders have similar burn rates.

• But as a follow-on to the above, IMHO, what the lazy reloaders on the other forums are saying, in a back-handed kind of way, is that you can use published data for 231 when you load SP... and that is definitely not going to be true. Similarities in burn rate DO NOT equate to similar load data. And, out of all the rules and guides you must remember when reloading, that is not a nugget anybody needs to make room for. To me it is LAZY reloading, and when you get lazy in reloading you get hurt.

 

[newageroman]

They do seem similar powders. I think the most noteable *marketing feature of SP is that it seems to be made with powder coated bullets in mind. That may not make a difference though, as one shooter mentioned both are choo choo trains.... I DO however believe that if you use PC bullets and leave them stored for a long time> yr, it would be better to use SP vs 231.

All that said, when I moved from 320 to SP (due to cost mainly), I worked up loads with 10% off max just like alliant says to do. Of course I had the same weights as 320 in a ladder test ready to go if all primer looked good (which they did).

I mean how much more trouble is it really to load another 5-10 rounds with ladder loads- working up by .2 or .3 gns? 10 minutes? 20 minutes? easily worth it to me, if not just peace of mind, working the safety process INTO my load dev instead of OUT OF my load dev keep my fingers able to pull the booger hook.

[WNCRob]

Many thanks to all who responded...very informative and helpful.