I have a CZ Noob CGW question…

[jurek]

As every manual says : "All mechanical safeties can fail"... I feel better lowering the hammer over my thumb than using decocker..which may fail.... 

There's a much better chance that the human animal will fail than the mechanical safety or decocker. They all use this blanket disclaimer.
Even if by some remote chance there was a failure and the hammer fell past the half cock/safety notch the firing pin block would prevent the gun from discharging which is it's main and only function.

  Yeah.. That makes sense. I completely forgot about firing pin block ! 

[Lchtus]

Thought I would just report back after taking her to the range for the first time.  Lord it runs well…that trigger….whatever voodoo magic that CGW does I am hooked.  Wow.

[Smitty79]

Be careful of doing things to the trigger of a carry gun.     You should read up on what Massad Ayoob has to say about this.    It's not that you will instantly be found guilty for  smoothing up the sear contacts.   But it can be a problem.    He talks a lot about this in this forum:

https://www.glocktalk.com/forums/gate-self-defense-forum.256/

It is important to be able to articulate why you did any change to the stock trigger and it better not have impacted the safety features of the gun.

I've only modified one carry gun trigger.    I have been competing with CZs for 9 years.    After breaking a few stock trigger return springs, I automatically change the stock spring in all DA guns with the CGW spring.    No breaks since then.    When I bought a P-07 for carry, I changed the spring.   I also competed, in IDPA, with this gun.   It did drop the DA pull by about 1# and I couldn't measure the drop in SA pull.    A prosecutor might bring this up, in a case of a self defense shooting.    But I can clearly articulate that I did this change for reliability, not because of some depraved need for a hair trigger on a defensive gun.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Be careful of doing things to the trigger of a carry gun.     You should read up on what Massad Ayoob has to say about this.    It's not that you will instantly be found guilty for  smoothing up the sear contacts.   But it can be a problem.    He talks a lot about this in this forum:

https://www.glocktalk.com/forums/gate-self-defense-forum.256/

It is important to be able to articulate why you did any change to the stock trigger and it better not have impacted the safety features of the gun.

I've only modified one carry gun trigger.    I have been competing with CZs for 9 years.    After breaking a few stock trigger return springs, I automatically change the stock spring in all DA guns with the CGW spring.    No breaks since then.    When I bought a P-07 for carry, I changed the spring.   I also competed, in IDPA, with this gun.   It did drop the DA pull by about 1# and I couldn't measure the drop in SA pull.    A prosecutor might bring this up, in a case of a self defense shooting.    But I can clearly articulate that I did this change for reliability, not because of some depraved need for a hair trigger on a defensive gun.

This is PURE GARBAGE! Massad Ayoob has been spewing this crap for decades and the guy cannot cite one case were modification of a defensive weapon has been used against anyone and no one else has cited a single case either. Cite a case please. I don't own a single defensive weapon that I have not modified to my personal preference and I have no concern over that being an issue.
The simple not hard at all to understand fact is if you are involved in a defensive use of a firearm and you end up defending yourself in court it will be because your use of deadly force is in question not the gun you used.
Ayoob is also the screwball that started the myth years ago about not using handloads as defensive ammo and yet neither he nor anyone else can cite a single case of that being an issue either.

[jurek]

I wouldn't say "pure garbage", just "avoiding problems".
Modified carry firearms are not a problem anymore in criminal trials, but can be pain in civil ones.

I remember California's incident from 1973 when S&W .357 Magnum owner was sued for negligence discharge during vehicle accident. It happened because of "hair trigger".
I'm sure there are more cases like this.

I'm not against modifications, but we have to remember that these days you can be sued for anything, just to get your money...so why risk this?

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Unless someone can post an actual link to an actual case where someone has been prosecuted for having used a modified firearm in a defensive situation it is nothing more than folklore or a wives tail.

[jurek]

But who is gonna post anything about civil trials?  These are mostly personal, public ones are from insurance companies, like this one from 1973.
Nothing to discuss. Every single armed person has own mind and do whatever works best for him/her.

[cpoakes]

The bucket of sand approach seems like overkill when I can decock my pistols in a safe direction off my back porch.

[Smitty79]

Here are some cases where trigger mods had impact.    I got these from Mas Ayoob.   

Santibanes v. Tomball and Galmon v. Phebus.

He also cites a case where using hand loads caused a problem.

New Jersey v. Daniel Bias

This video, from nationally known expert Andrew Branca, discusses gun modification and legal impact.    If you can get past his advertising, there is lots of great information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIlFCrEmLe4

While these guys are not on our forum, most people aren't.    They are both master level shooters.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

This shows nothing more than NEGLIGENT handling of a firearm by the officers involved in those shootings regardless of any mods that had been made to the guns. Both officers had their fingers on the triggers before they should have if they even should have. Lets be clear in the New Orleans case the officer also had his trigger modified which was clearly against department policy.
Daniel Bias MURDERED his wife any way you slice it. They couldn't replicate the GSR pattern with his supposed handloads which he claimed were mixed up with other rounds. He was eventually convicted of negligent homicide and served a very short sentence for it. What does his case tell us? That he was a very convincing liar or the prosecutors involved in the case were incompetent or both. He should have spent the last years of his life in prison.
Still I see no case where a person involved in a LEGITIMATE defensive situation was hammered in court over a modified weapon or the use of handloads.
Full disclosure I use factory available defensive ammo in my defensive weapons but simply because the quality and accuracy of modern defensive ammo is so high it makes no sense to work up a handload.
Seriously though if you follow the rationale behind this type of thinking a prosecutor could potentially claim anything you use has some ulterior lethal premise to it. Sir why did you buy that box of Critical Duty hollow points for $35 when you could have purchased a box of regular round nose cartridges and gotten twice as many for $10 less? Was it because you knew those hollow points were much more deadly? Same with your choice of gun and or caliber.
The actual court transcripts to these cases are out there if those interested care to take the time to read through them.

[MeatAxe]

My stock 2014 vintage Rami DA / SA trigger is pretty bleep smooth (and getting better as I use it). I carry in the half-cocked position with no manual safety.

Now the triggers on my recently acquired (brand new) 2020 vintage Ramis are definitely heavier and grittier by comparison, whether they just need to wear in or not, time will tell. I think I prefer the stock trigger on my 2014 Rami as a EDC gun compared to a super light custom trigger, especially if I’m jacked up on adrenaline when the s h t f.