Author Topic: Recoil springs and slide stops  (Read 2775 times)

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Offline Davehb

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Recoil springs and slide stops
« on: January 19, 2023, 09:57:19 PM »
I’ve seen the articles saying weak recoil springs cause slide stop breakage.

How?

Just trying to understand the internals.
On the backstroke the recoil is stopped by the slide hitting the frame.

What stops it on the return stroke is the slide stop, and would seem from appearance of action an heavier recoil spring would accelerate slide stop wear.
Just trying to understand function.
Most of wear on mine is at the point of the “V” 5:30-6ish.




Can anyone explain it to me, or point me to video of how operates during cycling?

Offline Davehb

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2023, 01:45:47 PM »
Found this so far.
Still trying to get the picture in my head

https://youtu.be/h7ri33LDHZk


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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2023, 02:08:12 PM »
CZ's have been known to break slide stops to the point that many competition shooters carry a spare. Using the right spring for the ammo you're using will maximize it's life and minimize wear. I  would not lose any sleep over it though. I finally had one break in My 1997 era 75BD last year and that pistol has well north of 25,000 before the stop broke.
I do have spares in the parts box just in case as it is a wear item.

Offline no.vale.la.pena

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2023, 04:57:31 PM »
Not entirely sure on the physics of it, but I would imagine as the recoil spring weakens, slide velocity increases and the barrel lug slams into the slide stop with more force. When I talked to a CZ-USA rep about it regarding an issue I had (see below), he mentioned that the slide stops are designed so that they break when the recoil spring is totally shot as a way to protect the frame from damage, this is more relevant on aluminum alloy frame guns but can still occur steel frame guns, per the rep.  Just another reason to be zealous about following the recoil spring replacement recommendations.   

In competition circles people typically run lighter recoil springs that (I believe) lose length faster (my conclusion from a data set I saw on loss of spring length over time across various spring weights in a 1911) so broken slide stops are more common in that setting if people aren't regimented about recoil spring replacement.  That, plus higher round counts overall in competition guns and more parts wear.  From what I have seen and heard, very serious competition shooters usually have separate, identically set-up, training and major match guns, no matter the pistol platform to mitigate parts and spring wear issues.     

Interestingly enough, I had a slide stop break on a P01 Omega where the lever portion sheared off but the post remained in the gun.  I actually finished the course of fire and started another one (20-30 rds with it broken) without realizing it had sheared off, the gun functioned fine but the slide did not lock back, obviously. In that instance I traced it back to putting a worn-out recoil spring back in the gun; I had kept a worn out one around for reference and grabbed it in a rush and installed it instead of new one, totally ignoring the labeling on the bad spring. Lesson learned though, recoil springs over the round count go straight in the trash now.  Another slide stop break I had was in a P01 steel frame, where the slide stop (different design from the omega one) broke in the same place and also continued functioning until I noticed (5-10 rds).  That I attributed to having a borderline recoil spring and likely inconsistent round tracking; that slide stop had also been re-coated with a PVDF coating which also may have contributed to earlier breakage (pure speculation there).  Both guns were running stock weight recoil springs.   

So what I have learned is that it pays to keep a solid spreadsheet on the rd count on your recoil spring and replace it in advance of the recommended round count.  Not a bad idea to have spare slide stops too. 

Offline PA USPSA

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2023, 07:00:16 PM »
What is the recommended round count to replace the recoil spring in a Shadow 2 running an 11 pound recoil spring running 135 pf rounds?
2022 Accushadow 2

Offline tdogg

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2023, 05:41:10 PM »
I replace my competition gun springs annually (main, recoil, and trigger).  It is cheap insurance to make sure the gun functions at matches.

I keep tabs on magazines and will replace those springs when I start seeing feeding issues.  Sometimes they are dirty but sometimes they need tuning and I just replace springs as a precaution.

Cheers,
Toby
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Offline Davehb

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2023, 08:32:48 PM »
I replace my competition gun springs annually (main, recoil, and trigger).  It is cheap insurance to make sure the gun functions at matches.

I keep tabs on magazines and will replace those springs when I start seeing feeding issues.  Sometimes they are dirty but sometimes they need tuning and I just replace springs as a precaution.

Cheers,
Toby
What springs do you replace magazine springs with?
All I’ve seen is the +10% springs.


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Offline tdogg

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2023, 12:10:08 AM »
I run extended mag bases (140mm) and either run grams springs (13 coil) or CZ Custom springs (10 coil) and followers.  The length of the spring is dictated by the length of your magazine.  I shoot limited and carry optics so my magazines are 140mm.

If your magazines are feeding I'd run stock springs.

Cheers,
Toby
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2023, 06:55:54 AM »
I've added the +2 bases to most of my 16 round magazines and the P07 and P09 magazines and not had an issue with the factory springs.

Can't say that for the M&Ps.  Added +2's to those (same base works on the CZ and M&P 9 and .40 magazines) and the slide wouldn't lock back after the last round anymore.  i replaced those with +10% springs (Wolf I think).

It's probably not a bad idea to just put the +10% springs in them when you add the extended round bases to the magazines.  Cheap insurance, really.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline 2morechains

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2023, 12:11:31 PM »
What is the recommended round count to replace the recoil spring in a Shadow 2 running an 11 pound recoil spring running 135 pf rounds?

Every 5K-ish for peace of mind.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Recoil springs and slide stops
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2023, 12:47:01 PM »
Thinking about magazine springs made me remember (more/better) the M&P mag spring thing and how short the older springs were vs. the new springs.

The mag. springs are wire springs, not flat springs like many of the recoil spring are these days.

Ang the recoil springs are often a "recoil spring assembly" that is uses a flat spring captured on the recoils spring guide.

We never see the recoil spring off the guide so we really don't see it "looking" shorter than a newer spring off a similar pistol.

Off the M14 Forum I remember one of the military trained armorers posting the specified recoil/operating spring lengths for the M1 Garand and M14 (and maybe 1911A1 pistol) at which the spring should be replaced.  All those (military issue) springs are also wire springs.  That's how they determine the spring should be replaced, by it's overall length.

Any such data/recommendations for the flat springs?  Many people don't like the captured spring assemblies due to the plastic guide rods so they buy aftermarket metal spring guides and aftermarket springs and they would see/be able to measure recoils spring length easily when field stripping the pistol for cleaning.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?