P-09 Issues Running Reloads

[Grendel]

Then why post:

 

No, I do not use a gauge.  I bought a threaded barrel for one of my Canik SFx guns, so I installed that and have the original SFx barrel on my reloading bench and use it just to make sure that the first few rounds out of the press (once I have the OAL nailed down) will pass the "plunk test" and drop all the way into the chamber and fall back out freely.  Once I have a batch loaded, I will sometimes just pick random rounds out and re-check the plunk test, but don't check every round.

Both statements can't be correct.


I'm out. This is pointless.

[VRSW]

Huh?  Not sure which statements you mean that can't be correct?  You're saying that the round that won't allow the barrel to go into battery can't possibly drop freely into the barrel and freely fall back out?  I can assure you that both of those statements are correct.

I just pulled the barrels on both guns and may be on to something.  On the good gun, using the dial calipers, measuring the chamber depth at the very top of the barrel, I get a measurement of .754"....repeated multiple times.  On the bad gun, I get .750".....so it appears that the chamber in the bad gun is .004 shallower than the good barrel.  Doesn't seem like much, but apparently it's enough?

And just now....out of curiosity, I ran back in and took the same measurement on the Canik barrel....  .756"

Curious if anyone else has ran into this or had this be a problem?  Can you see any issues with having the barrel reamed .006" deeper?  Has anyone had this done before and if so, what was the cost?

[M1A4ME]

Huh?  Not sure which statements you mean that can't be correct?  You're saying that the round that won't allow the barrel to go into battery can't possibly drop freely into the barrel and freely fall back out?  I can assure you that both of those statements are correct.

I just pulled the barrels on both guns and may be on to something.  On the good gun, using the dial calipers, measuring the chamber depth at the very top of the barrel, I get a measurement of .754"....repeated multiple times.  On the bad gun, I get .750".....so it appears that the chamber in the bad gun is .004 shallower than the good barrel.  Doesn't seem like much, but apparently it's enough?

And just now....out of curiosity, I ran back in and took the same measurement on the Canik barrel....  .756"

Curious if anyone else has ran into this or had this be a problem?  Can you see any issues with having the barrel reamed .006" deeper?  Has anyone had this done before and if so, what was the cost?

That could be it.  Just a tad short for the case to fully insert enough to let the barrel/case move upwards all the way.

Might have to get that barrel back to CZ USA to be looked at/fixed.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Good freakin grief! yeah many of us have run into this issue before. CZ barrels can tend to be notoriously short throated and certain bullet ogives will not chamber in them even though they run perfectly in other guns. The very plain simple fact is you either ream the chamber yourself after you purchase the proper tool, you send it out to someone and have it done or you adjust your oal to fit the specific chamber.
You were given good advice earlier in this thread yet seem unwilling to listen. None so blind as those who will not see.

[VRSW]

Thanks for everyone's help.  Yeah....that last answer is the one I was hoping to get first.  I figured that I can't be the only one seeing this same issue.  I just needed to know what the cause was and how to fix it.  Thanks again...

[Wobbly]

• One question you never answered was: Has either of these guns been back to CZ-USA or a gunsmith ?

• I believe one of your barrels has already been reamed, which is a common practice when you send a new gun back to CZ-USA.

• This mess could all have been avoided if you had bothered to read, understand and use the VERY complete reloading instructions in the Stickies.

All the best.

[VRSW]

I did answer that question.....both guns were purchased brand new and both are bone stock aside from milling for an optic....and the problem was there before I sent the slide in.  Other than that, neither gun has been worked on.

I did have the slide on this gun machined for an optic by Cajun.  It had this problem before the machining was done and still has this problem afterwards.  I would have had Cajun look into this while they had it, but when I sent the gun in, I had only tried one type of my reloads (I think the Berry's flat point load) and assumed that there was just something about that particular load that the gun didn't like.  It wasn't until I got the gun back, mounted the optic and tried sighting in that I realized that it won't run any of my reloads without issues.

Everything else about both P-09's is bone stock.

[Wobbly]

Unless these 2 pistols were made at different locations (Czech vs USA), apparently someone has already reamed one of your barrels for you. The slide you sent back to CGW, did it have the barrel enclosed ?

IMHO, the chamber measurements you made don't prove anything. 9x19 bass is allowed to be anywhere from 0.743 to 0.750", with most of it falling in the shorter end of that range.

I don't see where you told us where your brass comes from. The gun could be perfect but "9 Major" brass would cause the exact same issue. As would out-of-spec Taper Crimp. Two measurements that prudent reloaders check.

In short, there are 20 major points that you as the reloader control, and the barrel maker controls just 1. But since each gun leaving CZ is test fired and since you've fired the gun as well, you might do well to stand back and not be so hasty to point the finger at CZ. The ratio of 20 points to 1 is overwhelming. No gambler in Los Vegas would ever take those odds ! And yet no detailed information or measurements of this ammo is offered. In effect saying, "It can't be me."

Not to worry. Once every 6 months, someone comes on here with the exact same problem. When confronted they start in with the, "Well, I'll have you know I've been reloading since... " story. The fact is, their ego is so big they can't see the forest for the trees. It doesn't matter how many rounds of 45ACP and 38Spcl you've reloaded, 9x19 Luger is very, very different beast. Because of the tapered brass and tapered chamber special measurements need to be made, special die setup need to be made, special checks need to be made on finished rounds. Add to that the shorter chamber CZ provides, and so on top of that you need to calculate your OAL very carefully. All things considered, 9x19 Luger is actually about 2 levels more complicated than any American straight-walled cartridge. 9x19 Luger is not "harder" to reload, but there are definitely 20 extra steps required to be successful.

You can be successful, or you can complain. Your choice.

We're here to help if/when you get ready. 

[bang bang]

welcome

sorry i cant and wont help the OP on this question since i think there is some avenues to look at.

Just an fyi,

Im currently working as a maintenance tech in the semiconductor industry...no not the big one, but a company that feeds the big ones.

So when some piece of equipment goes down for whatever reason, im texted to get off my duff and earn my pay.

But what it comes down to is that most of the equipment has a human operator and then you have the equipment part of the problem.  When i arrive to do my job, i always ask the user what they were doing before and if they noticed anything different and what happened.  Most of the older operators have an idea on whats going on and have a feel for things, where as the newer ones dont.  Its not their fault, its just due to lack of experience/time and you learn everyday, everytiime when the machine is working and when it isnt.

When it comes to people you have to be careful about how you approach them when somethign goes down.  I dont figure point or yell at them like others, but i let them know everyone can make a mistake and i do and that if they did, it may help with making things work again.   Most if not all of them on my shift are really good about that too and aren't afraid of saying if they pushed the wrong button or whatever.   And i can tell you that most will know if they screwed up or not too.

But i always look at the everything....suspect everything...until.  And that suspect everything includes every other tech that may have worked or did a PM on that equipment the previous shift/day.  Then you also have the programmers that could have had their heads in the program previously too.   I can look at the HMI - Human Machine Interface, but that only says so much, like the trouble codes on your car.   But i will look at everything and it will give me a start.  Keeping in mind that everything is still on the table.   

Im far from perfect and if i was i would be running the world.   So, again, when i have to troubleshoot something, im not tossing out anything - until.  And yes, i can say its this or that, but since im new to the industry and some of the equipment AND COMPONENTS i cant say.  Others that have been there longer will have a better feel for such things too.

And for what its worth, we had equipment down for days...and that really hurts production ...just because people...(techs, operators, managers, supervisors and ENGINEERS) have overlooked the obvious...

good luck

[Wobbly]

I own two P-09 suppressor-ready guns.  I'm having issues with one of them when running my own reloads.  In probably 1 in 3 rounds, the slide will not travel all the way forward and the barrel will not go into battery.  I found one round that would not chamber completely, so I removed the slide from the gun, removed the recoil spring, slid the barrel forward, slid the rim of the round in question under the extractor hook and then tried to slide the barrel back and into battery.  Won't go.

As discussed here previously, 9mm reloads not chambering in the CZ can be caused by 4 separate issues....
• OAL too long
• Incorrect taper crimp
• Seating bullets too deeply
• Expanded case heads from range brass last shot in "9 Major"

Reloaders can easily get into trouble with the last 2 simply because of the 9x19's tapered chamber. IOW the exact same issue on 45ACP or 38Super round would be immediately apparent, and no big problem ! But the tapered chamber has a way of masking the issue, and totally frustrating people... to the point of making tempers flair.

All of these are simple human errors on the part of the reloader. I happen to know about them only because I made the same mistakes nearly 20 years ago. And like most errors, all of them are easily corrected, once the issue is correctly identified. But as with any problem, "shooting the messenger" doesn't get you very far.

More help here... https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=120538.0