What am I looking for? Trigger guard variation

[CranberryDog]

Hello.  First post.  I am in the market for a pre B and have a question on configuration.  I have noticed two styles of trigger guards on the pre Bs.  One has an oval shape that seems parallel to the barrell and the other is oval but seems rotated toward the barrel by 1/4 inch or so.  It's a little hard to describe.  I am looking for the latter.  Can you tell me what style it is?  I am guessing it's an earlier style. Thank you.

[CranberryDog]

I just noticed that ziomatrix shows one on page 3 of the pre B picture thread and describes it as a 1984 model.  So I am guessing CZ switched styles sometime in the 80s?

[Cliff47]

The true Pre-B trigger guard is one smooth piece of arc, though some of the 'Transitionals' have the rounded trigger guard (probably a very early tranistional).  The recurved trigger guard appeared during the transitional period, along with other features that were incorporated (not sure about the sequence, though).  There seems to be some difference of opinion on the design of the 1) cocking serrations, 2) hammer design, 3) the firing pin block and 4) front sight design, among others.

Whatever the sequence, enjoy the firearm.  Shoot safely and enjoy.

[CranberryDog]

Hi Cliff,

Thanks for your reply.  I don't have a CZ yet.  The smooth arc you mention pretty much describes the one I am looking for.  Do you know what years these were produced?  Also, is there a site where one can find the year of production by serial numner?

I have 1911s and BHPs.  Now I am entering the wonderful world of CZs.  Much to learn.  Thanks.

[Cliff47]

Greetings Dog -

The CZ75 design is slowly getting into the shooting community, unlike the 1911 and BHP designs that have been around for a LOT longer.  Not bad for a design that goes back only 30 years (give or take).

At this point in time, I do not know of any one source that could tell you (from the serial number, or importer) exactly when a pistol was manufactured.  The number stamped on the ejector is supposed to be the year of manufacture, but some sources claim it is the year of export to the market.
My CZ75B transitional is marked as a '94', and has the ribbed slide, firing pin block, recurved trigger guard, pinned dovetail sights, commander-style hammer, and the slanted cocking serrations.  I figure that mine is a very LATE transitional, imported by Magnum Research Incorporated.  Other importers were Bauska (Montana?), and a Canadian outfit I can't remember the name of (getting old is a bear!).

Lest I forget, the roll-stamping on the left side of the frame went from 'Made in Czechoslovakia' to 'Made in Czech Republic' during the transitional period.  

Shoot safely and enjoy.

[briang2ad]

Cliff47:  What makes your pistol "transitional"?  It has all of the B features - is it marked CZ 75?

[CranberryDog]

Yep, I know all about the getting old business.  Thanks again for the info.  I just took the plunge and bought a Bauska import LNIB with two mags, cleaning brush, papers and box.

It's dated 1985 near the ejection port.  Grips are perfect and there is a small scratch on the right side of the receiver.  It has the enamel finish. It has the round trigger guard I was looking for.  I should get it by next Friday.

I am very happy.  Now starts the quest for a holster, mags, springs, and other odds and ends.  A dissasembly manual would be handy.  I'm one of those guys that likes to tinker.

I am planning on having it refinished; any recommendations?

[Walt-Sherrill]

There were several trigger guard shapes.  The oldest had an almost oval trigger guard.  Then they moved to one that was more circular, and finally, they added a squared front edge to it, that looks like the current "B" models.

Transitional models are just that -- ones that begin incorporating the modern "B" features but still don't use the current firing pin block.  

As noted previously, front sights differ, as does the width of the rear dovetail.  (The oldest pre-B sights don't work on Bs, but some transitional pre-B have the same dovetail as current B.)  It's a crap shoot.

The same is true of the hammer design, most with a half-cock notch, but a few without. Some are too wide to use the current Kadet Kit (I had one of those.  It also didn't have the half-cock notch.)

Guide rods changed, with the earliest ones being metal, changing to hard plastic.  (The Compacts use a different type of plastic.)

I think the ambi-slide release on the 85Bs and 85s are sometimes different, too.  CZ will update the slide stop on an older 85 free.

Safety designs (cosmetic and internal) changed, as did the slide stop and the interior dimensions of the mag channel in the grip.

There's no clear-cut date that different features were worked in -- or none that we've been able to discern.  CZ had a knack for making up a lot of parts at one time, serial numbering them later, and then date-stamping them still later, when they left the factory.  Serial numbers and dates don't run consistently, nor do specific features.  About all that can be said is that the transitional guns are newer than the older, more classic pre-Bs.  The more "B" features found, the newer it is likely to be.

As for manuals -- unless you can get someone to photocopy or scan one of the old pre-B manuals, you're out of luck.  However, field stripping is exactly the same for the B and pre-B models, so you can download a new manual from the CZ-USA website and print it out.

The most interesting pre-Bs are those from Germany which were modified by a firm there name Frankonia.  Very nice guns with a lot of custom features.

[Boogalou]

Adding to Walt's informative post concerning the different types of PreB's, I have a 1984 and 1991, and the differences between them are that the 84 has a wider spur hammer, the thumb safety's are shaped a little differently, the 84 has the waffle type grips, the 84 has a solid trigger pin versus staked, and there are no indentations  on the 84 frame where the trigger pin is inserted.

[Cliff47]

Okay, my error, I thought I had a late transitional, I may have an early true 'B'.  Either way, it shoots smooth, and accurate.

As the design on the t-shirt reads 'Czechnologically Superior'.

I will report for the appropriate flogging with a BoreSnake at the designated time.

[CranberryDog]

Thanks again for the warm welcome and wealth of information.  Facinating history on the CZ 75. It seems that the more I know the less I know.  Best, Cyril

[Boogalou]

I should add that I've noticed that early CZ75's appear to all have a 5 or 6 digit serial number that appears to sequentially follow the date stamped on the slide.  I think that this numbering process may have ended in the late 1980's or 1990,  and the changover to the new type of frame with the trigger pin indentations and more circular trigger guard was the start of serial numbers with letter prefix/suffixs.  My 1991 has a serial number that has a letter prefix.  Does anyone else have a lettered serial number on their CZ that is older then 1991?

[briang2ad]

My 94 transitional starts with a "U".  I think the mid eighties models had rhyme/reason to the numbering system.  By the time transitions were coming or the 85 was coming out, they didn't manage the numbers - they just stayed ahead by playing games with letters and numbers.  Business practices in the republic are still probably very backward today.  The folks there are well-educated, intelligent, and nice as  people go.  BUT, communism destroyed the legal/ethical framework to do "free trade" international business.