Author Topic: Plastic FLGR?  (Read 4433 times)

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DonNikmare

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Plastic FLGR?
« on: January 03, 2004, 10:18:25 PM »
Just had a thought.....has anyone made a plastic FLGR?

If plastic is better for shock absorption wouldn't a plastic FLGR be the better than a metal one?  It should be easier to make too.

Nik

tikkaguy

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Plastic FLGR?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2004, 10:42:14 PM »
I won't know enough to say plastic will be better in a 97b and from my experience using plastics in my firearms as recoil buffers/ replacement parts is they will mar and wear faster = needing frequent replacement but yes it will be alot easier to make. Just make a cast and injection mold alot of them.

Walt-Sherrill

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Plastic FLGR?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2004, 10:54:36 PM »
I've got a bunch of guns with plastic guide rods.  I have yet to have to replace one becuase of wear.  

I haven't had to replace a metal one, either.

I don't think guide rods wear out.  

Plastic should work as well as metal, and as noted, it should be easy to make.  Getting the right "plastic" formula, with the proper "lubricity" (resistance to friction?) would be the real problem.

There is plastic and there is plastic.  Buffers are designed to ABSORB shock, not to guide a spring.  I would think they are made of different material and a guide rod.

Offline Lazarus

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Plastic FLGR?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2004, 12:39:16 AM »
Incorrect assumptions leading to incorrect conclusions.  The guide rod is not subjected to shock, as is the slide stop, for example.  The guide rod does not act as a "recoil buffer" either.  The rod merely keeps the recoil spring relatively straight as it is compressed and released.  Keeping the spring straight during shooting is not even that big a deal.  However the designers did screw up because the FLGR *is* necessary for easy gun assembly, especially with a stronger recoil spring installed.  The first FLGR I made for the 97b was from delrin plastic and it worked great.  I doubt if it would ever be a problem.  
-Lazarus

Walt-Sherrill

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Plastic FLGR?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2004, 10:20:54 AM »
Quote
Quote:
Incorrect assumptions leading to incorrect conclusions. The guide rod is not subjected to shock, as is the slide stop, for example. The guide rod does not act as a "recoil buffer" either. The rod merely keeps the recoil spring relatively straight as it is compressed and released.


Generally correct, but...

The guide rod IS subjected to some (trivial) shock, when the slide is fully to the rear and the guide rod is resting against the frame/receiver stop.  In that position, the compressed recoil spring is jammed against the rear LIP/REAR of the recoil spring guide rod.  Properly designed, the guide rod could be made in a way that the lip wasn't even needed, though.  That is the ONLY shock it gets, however.  

When I mentioned shock absorption, it was in reference to the use of SHOCK BUFFERS (as separate piece), which I think are unnecessary if the gun has the proper springs.

Note: CZ has said that that the plastic guide rods have an  admittedly small shock-absorbtion function; that was one of the reasons that they changed to plastic guide rods.  (I suspect that was why SIG went that way, too -- only to revert to metal after so many SIG owners bitched about "PLASTIC" parts in their expensive SIGs...)

I suspect the LIP on the base of the guide rod is there primarily to make insertion of the spring into the gun when reassembling easier.

I agree with the gist of your message, however, in that a much, much greater amount of force is absorbed by the slide stop -- which is also a BARREL STOP, if you think about it.  It gets its greatest battering when the barrel moves to the rear during the process of unlocking -- but also gets battered again as the slide returns to battery.   Only part of the total force is passed to the slide (because the barrel unlocks early in the cycle and it is stopped by the slide stop pin).

And I'll agree, also, that the main job of the guide rod is to keep the spring in position, which is not a particularly stressful role.  

(I also happen to think metal guide rods are "over-engineered" for the task assigned, and had plastics been available when guide rods were first made, we'd probably never have seen a metal one.)


Unregistered(d)

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Plastic FLGR?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2004, 10:47:13 AM »
I have made a few in the machine shop that i have access to. The only issue that i can think of is that you should be shure to check the hole in the recoil spring plug. Make shure that the edge of the hole as viewed from the back side has a nice radius, other wise it (guide rod) will be subjected to being "chattered" or shaved durring recoil, leaving the debris in the firearm.

P.S. I normally only use my delrin FLGR with a 18# recoil spring. Otherwise i use the stock guide rod w/ the 16# spring.

                                                     Regards.

DonNikmare

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Plastic FLGR?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2004, 03:32:07 PM »
Would delrin plastic be available under any form/product in a regular store like HomeDepot or Lowe's?
Nik